MarioWiki talk:Coverage

Limiting article creations

I don't like that. While we should have main focuses and sub-focuses, the articles that we want created will eventually be created no matter what. Limiting the number of articles one can create in a week just slows down the wiki. --Steve (talk) 21:42, 31 October 2006 (EST)

However, # of new pages is also the easiest to keep track of at Special:Newpages. Do you suggest a higher general limit instead? Wa _T^C_@^Y 22:45, 31 October 2006 (EST)

Honestly, wouldn't this just slow us down! Plus, it would be kinda irratating to keep checking the amount of pages and make sure the limit hasn't been violated... 3dejong

The problem is this is the Super Mario Wiki, not the Banjo-Kazooie wiki. Limits are meant to ensure that secondary and tertiary articles don't dominate this wiki at the expense of Mario. If it is the consensus of the wiki not to keep limits, that's fine by me. However, we should still keep this page to inform people of the focus of this wiki. -- Son of Suns

Shouldn't this be updated now.Knife (talk)

I'll revise it tomorrow or Monday – maybe move it to a page about what topic goes to what wiki. Wa _T^C_@^Y 11:35, 30 December 2006 (EST)

spin-offs

Are there any Banjo, Conker, or any other Donkey Kong series spin-offs where a new character stars in his/her own game?-- Aipom --

Well... I think Timber might have had his own game planned, but it was cancelled, aside from that, no. There are rumors of a Squirrel High Command and Tediz game, both of those are from Conker's Bad Fur Day/Conker: Live & Reloaded, but, those are just rumors. -- Sir Grodus

What's Tediz?-- Aipom --

Robo killer teddy bears. Blah. Anyway, this sounds OK. Just the main stuff.. cool. 3D, who's BAAACK! FINALLY!

Media

Should stuff be mentioned about the tv series, the real life people, etc.?Knife (talk)

A new policy is in the works. It will cover what you have mentioned. -- Son of Suns

Items and Arenas

Sorry if this has been asked before but... should we make articles for the items and arena's that appear in the SSB series? - User: Ultimatetoad

Those would be legitimate articles. But remember SSB is of secondary importance, so please try to focus on Mario games more than these articles. Also remember to add only SSB categories. -- Son of Suns

What about cameo characters? (Wolf.O.Donnel and Ridley both appear in the opening movie, and dont forget Tingle). What about the Pokemon that come out of Poke-balls? What about Trophies? - User: Ultimatetoad

I need an answer soon, anybody?

Cameo characters- don't affect gameplay, so should probably just be mentioned in the SSB game articles. Any character that affects gameplay, like Tingle, can have an article. We can have an article explaining trophies (complete with a list of trophies), but all the characters and items featured in trophies should not have articles. All the Pokemon should be in the PokeBall article. -- Son of Suns

Thank you. - User: Ultimatetoad

FA

Sorry if I overlooked this, but is it possible for a secondary or tertiary article to reach FA? --Yoshi626File:Egg.PNG 20:59, 31 January 2007 (EST)

Yes. If good enough. -- Son of Suns

Diddy Kong Racing DS

Hello, everyone! As you all know, Conker and Banjo have been replaced by Dixie and Tiny Kong in the remake of Diddy Kong Racing. The issue here is whether or not that means their connection to the Mario universe should be erased as a result? Is DKR DS a rewritting of the story or should it be considered that DKR DS is just a simple romp with no significance on timeline or Mario's universe?

If we consider this a rewritting, it implies that Diddy Kong and friends never met Banjo or Conker. It would follow that they don't "exist" in Mario's universe per se... right? I know that I shouldn't assume that just because Banjo and Conker didn't come to the aid of Timber and Diddy that Banjo and Conker don't exist, but if we do assume that they do, it's almost like saying that Link inhabits the same world as Mario, and Link is, as stating in the policy, not getting the red carpet treatment that Conker, Banjo, Mario, and the rest will be getting.

So, here's how I see it: 1. DKR DS is a rewritting on the story. Solution: Banjo and Conker should be removed from the Marioverse (which makes me sad, I love Banjo... and the innocent Conker) 2. DKR DS has no effect on the original storyline and is an excuse to revive a classic N64 game. Solution: Dixie Kong and Tiny Kong didn't come to Diddy's aid. 3.DKR and DKR DS both tell different aspects of the same story. Solution: Dixie, Tiny, Banjo, and Conker were present. 4. [proposed by Wayoshi, see below] DKR and DKR DS are two completely separate events.

Let me know what you guys think! --Stumpers

I think it's a whole other story, after the original DKR, leaving Banjo & Conker on the border of the Marioverse. Maybe something in-game can confirm that. Wa _T^C_@^Y 06:57, 2 February 2007 (EST)

We will definately have to wait for the game to come out before we can reevaluate our position on the subject. According to some material, DKR DS may be a sequel (like DKL is to DKC). -- Son of Suns

• If amnything, 3. Everyone wins. And even so, its needs some official backup whether one's canon or not, or its an opinion, which is even more non-canocal -- WarioLoaf (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Guess will know the answer in five days.... -- Sir Grodus

Thanks for responding, everyone! I look forward to the release, then. What I've seen of the game makes it seem like a retelling (the intro is almost identical to the story in the N64 version's manual), so I din't think we should immeadiately jump to a conclusion if Nintendo confirms that its a sequel, since all "sequel" really means is a game that was created after the original... right? Oh, and have a fun Super Bowl, everyone! Stumpers

Well, if we're going to remove information just because it isn't canon we might as well remove articles like Super Mario Bros. Super Show and Hotel Mario. - Hyper Mushroom.

The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! was just based on Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. 2, I don't think it was supposed to have that weird "Ultimate Spider-Man: The Game"-esque canon. And is there anything really discarding Hotel Mario from the continuity? -- Sir Grodus

That isn't the point. The point is that if we remove information just because it isn't canon this just wouldn't be a wiki. - Hyper Mushroom

The difference is that this is the Super Mario Wiki, and games like Hotel Mario or cartoons like the Super Mario Bros. Super Show are not non-canon; they are either low-level canon, or alternate canon. They are still depictions of Mario. However, Banjo and Conker have nothing to do with Mario, outside of their tertiary connection to the Donkey Kong universe. As such, what happens in the Banjo and Conker series may be non-canon in the Mario series (instead of just being a low level of canon). Again, we'll have to see what the game says. -- Son of Suns

Weeeeeel, this is a wiki for Mario, and his SPIN-OFFS. No matter what way you look at it, Banjo and Conker both came from the Mario series. - User: Ultimatetoad

This is a wiki for franchises that exist in the same world as Mario. If there is a retcon, Banjo and Conker would exist independently of Mario, and thus would not be a part of his universe. They would no longer be important to the Super Mario Wiki. -- Son of Suns

The Banjo series is unnafected because Titup,a Banjo character, is present in Diddy kong racing DS--Gofer

Why would something go non-canon because of a remake? We still have Super Mario 64 articles here, despite its remake for the DS. Diddy Kong Racing will still exist even when DKR DS is a remake. Cobold 15:56, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Look at the comment of Sons of Suns . --Gofer

Super Mario 64 DS is almost the same as Super Mario 64, but harder and with some other changes. I guess Tiptup's and a Gnawty's appearance(s) in the Banjo-Kazooie and the fact Mario is mentioned in a few Banjo-Kazooie games (more as a joke though) would still make Banjo fit. Conker, well, I guess he could have an article, I don't know about his series. Man, this is hard, stupid continuity shift. -- Sir Grodus

Well, in the retcon, Tiptup could be a cameo character, not an in-universe character. I don't know if DKR DS is a remake or a sequel though. Also, "canon" info about Super Mario 64 should actually be about Super Mario 64 DS, but gameplay issues can still be addressed independently. -- Son of Suns

Are you talking about his appearance in Diddy kong racing ds or in Banjo game?He's playable in Diddy kong racing ds and he teach move in Banjo kazooie and tooie. --User: Gofer

Banjo-Kazooie. Bottles and Jamjars teach moves. Tiptup has a turtle orchestra and an egg in BK 1 and 2 respectibly. -- Son of Suns

So that means Banjo Kazooie is canon no matter what. And Banjo makes a cameo in bad fur day (As a hunting trophy) meaning the same for Conker! Sorted!

I don't think that "cameo" is supposed to be taken seriously. -- Sir Grodus

Remember, Tiptup is not the star of the two series. He is a minor character - a cameo even, simply because he appeared in DKR. Cameos happen all the time, but we don't have articles covering all of the Legend of Zelda or Bomberman series. DKR DS may indicate that Banjo and Conker have cut their ties to Mario's world - that Mario and Banjo could never meet and chat and talk. It's called a retcon - where the canon is reorganized. Again, I will say that I don't know if DKR DS is a total remake or a sequel, so the question of Banjo and Conker is still up in the air. -- Son of Suns

Whatever. I don't think their connection with the Marioverse was meant to be taken seriously anyway. There was no further mention of the Marioverse from that point, apart from a cameo from Gnawty in Banjo Kazooie and music from Donkey Kong Land in Pocket Tales. Other than that a simple, pointless appearance in Diddy Kong Racing is our only connection. - Hyper Mushroom

Stumpers' massive discussion

Hey, everyone. Bare with me here, because I believe this may be a little touchy, but I believe it is important. I would like to note that the entire concept of "Marioverse" is non-canon, yet it is covered extensively in the Wiki. "Tertiary, secondary, primary" are also non-canon in respect to the Mario series. DK and friends do not inhabit a different dimension than Mario. However, these are fine guidelines for governing this Wiki. As such, it is completely fine for us as a community to govern concepts exclusive to Wikis. However, it is not right in my opinion for us as a community to govern what is canon and non-canon in terms of remakes of games such as Super Mario 64 vs. Super Mario 64 DS. Both were made by Nintendo, with no official statement as to which we should go off of. I read up above that we're assuming that Super Mario 64 DS is to be considered a rewriting of the Super Mario 64 episode. Nintendo has made no comment on this issue whatsoever, meaning that:

(1) Super Mario 64 occurred, DS did not or (2) Super Mario 64 DS occurred, but the original did not, or (3) they were two different occurrences: both happened, or (4) they happened simultaneously, with some truths from each applying to each story.

As you can see, the task in front of us is incredible, requiring assumptions, and therefore non-canon, to describe the situation. Here is my idea: follow Nintendo's example and turn a blind eye for the purpose of the Wiki, noting the discrepancy where it appears. This is obviously a temporary solution, but a solution just the same.

Let's apply this to Diddy Kong Racing DS. We cannot turn a blind eye because doing so places Conker and Banjo in limbo. Are they or are they not part of the Mario's universe, and thus part of the Marioverse? However, there is a safe way to do this, similar to how I believe we should resolve Super Mario 64 DS.

Go ahead and make the articles for Conker and Banjo games, characters, etc, noting with a special template the issue at hand. How about this: "The following article is about an element that may or may not be part of the Marioverse due to remakes of previous games."

Sound good? No? How about solution number 2, then: consolidate all Banjo articles under one massive article and all Conker articles under another massive article, thus reducing the size of the Wiki, which I believe is an issue right now?

Thank you for your time and consideration! --Stumpers

P.S. On a partially related note, I also feel that it is incorrect to govern similar issues based on "cross-overs" vs. "cameos" vs. series that originated in the Mario universe. They all appeared in the games, and to make further assumptions would be to risk non-canon.