Talk:Bowser's Fury

Cat Counterparts

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Since we now have full confirmation that it is indeed "cat" every time, I'm wondering if we should go ahead and split these from their bases. The situation seems comparable with the "bean" versions of recurring enemies in Superstar Saga, among the many, many, many other examples of similar things that basically only affect how the counterpart looks. The only real question is what to do in cases where there's already a "cat" version in the base game as well as in the new mode, which from what I recall begins and ends with Cat Goomba. I guess it could be "Cat Goomba (Lake Lapcat)" if they aren't going to just keep merged - note that the web page does not list Cat Goomba on the Fury World list, implying they consider it the same as the one in the base game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:21, January 23, 2025 (EST)

I Personally don't really think they ought to be split. With the exception of the Cat Goomba and Cat Bullet Bill, who are the same enemies from 3D World, every single cat enemy is functionally identical to their non-cat counterpart. Its essentially an artstyle difference. --PopitTart (talk) 00:24, January 24, 2025 (EST)

Again, I float regional and other thematic counterparts in other games, such as the Beanish, Shroob, Microscopic/Health-themed, etc. versions from the Mario & Luigi games. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:30, January 24, 2025 (EST)

Siding with PopitTart. The enemies in Bowser's Fury are the exact same as their regular ones whereas the regional and other thematic counterparts have various differences (e.g. Beanarang Bros, Shroob Rexes). PrincessPeachFan (talk) 09:06, January 24, 2025 (EST)

The Beanbean Kingdom enemies are not an artstyle difference, they are more unique enemies that often have their own movesets and different statistics from their regular versions. It's also why we've even split Glohm versions of these enemies. The cat enemies in Bowser's Fury behave exactly as the normal version in Super Mario 3D World with the cat features being entirely aesthetic. This is essentially platformer vs RPG here so it is difficult to fully draw this kind of comparison. Nightwicked Bowser 09:31, January 24, 2025 (EST)

We do, however, split all the paper enemies in Paper Jam, including the ones that don't have a "normal" counterpart in the game, and even then, the only behavioral differences between the "normal" and "paper" types are almost completely aesthetic or "one pauses at a different time." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:53, January 24, 2025 (EST)

Well, that game has normal enemies existing alongside their paper counterparts, making it abundantly clear that the paper versions are to be seen distinctly. Bowser's Fury is 100% cats. I would mention the actual Paper Mario games to continue the comparison, where every enemy is inherently paper.--PopitTart (talk) 23:44, January 24, 2025 (EST)

They aren't named differently in the actual Paper Mario games, and like I said, Paper Jam had "paper" enemies that didn't have their "normal" counterparts appear, such as Swoops. Them appearing as cats (in the side mode) and not as cats (in the main mode) is still them coexisting as separate entities in the game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:02, January 25, 2025 (EST)

Paper enemies are not just aesthetic, a lot of them also have different attacks that the regular version doesn't have along with different statistics and are listed seperately for expert challenges, and honestly, them not being named uniquely in the Paper Mario games doesn't mean shit since it only applies to the one game they're with the normal versions (hence why I recently changed the identifier for Paper Mario). Again, you're basing this on how RPG enemies are handled when this case is platformer enemies with aesthetics being the only different, and I'm saying it's how enemies are handled between two different types of game genres so it's best for it to be case-by-case rather than blindly attempt to be consistent with everything and keep digging for comparisons. Nightwicked Bowser 06:15, January 25, 2025 (EST)

Them all having official distinct names and distinct designs should be reason enough, IMO. Otherwise we're going to bloat the Niol section for a single game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:39, January 25, 2025 (EST)

The Cat enemies may have distinct names and distinct designs but that doesn't change the fact that they still have the exact same attacking patterns. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:02, January 26, 2025 (EST)

And Klomp has the same attack pattern as Kritter while being the exact same thing with a superficial "pirate" theme, and we split it. Goombo is basically the exact same thing as Goomba and we split them. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:55, January 26, 2025 (EST)

Personally, I see this as more akin to The Origami King's enemies. I know these have "Cat" in their names, and the folded soldiers just use the same names as the non-folded counterparts, but names aren't everything. Blinker (talk) 12:15, January 26, 2025 (EST)

Since Cat Goombas in Bowser's Fury look and behave differently from Cat Goomas in 3D World, does that mean it should get a separate article then? Cat Goomba (Bowser's Fury)? rend (talk) (edits) 12:13, January 26, 2025 (EST)

The Cat Goombas in Bowser's Fury do however, behave how regular Goombas usually do in the 3D platformers. Nightwicked Bowser 12:18, January 26, 2025 (EST)

I brought that up initially. Currently, we list them on Cat Goomba's page, which the Portal thing corroborates by not including Cat Goomba among the Lapcat enemies - implying it's not considered "unique" to that mode, unlike the other cats. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:35, January 26, 2025 (EST)

Which is also why I'm iffy on moving the Bowser's Fury info from Goomba to Cat Goomba. Given they're both in the same game, yet one behaves more like a regular Goomba while another constantly pounces, makes me think they were not intended to be the same Cat Goomba (and I think they intentionally made it so, because Cat Bullet Bill has remained the same across the two campaigns). rend (talk) (edits) 12:42, January 26, 2025 (EST)

They're already on the Cat Goomba page, though. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:51, January 26, 2025 (EST)

Another thing to remember is that while several enemies may be the same, they're labeled differently or have different models. For instance, Krunchas are stated to be Krushas in pirate gear but they are wider and get mad and storm back and forth if Diddy or Dixie jump on them by themselves which Krushas never did. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 11:51, January 30, 2025 (EST)

Create page for Cat Enemies (Bowser's Fury)

Create page for Cat Enemies (Bowser's Fury)

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Tuesday, March 11, 2025, 17:14 GMT

I've been reading the discussion around the topic, although they are recognized as cat counterparts of the normal SM3DW enemies, their only difference is an addition of cat ears and fur, so I think it would be best to create a specific page for these enemies in general and thanks to this group them into a single differentiated article, the name of this page is simple Cat Enemies (Bowser's Fury)

Proposer: Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: March 22, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Create The Page (Support)

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.
2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - While most do act the same as normal, there are plenty of examples of variants doing just that - look at all the Wario World enemies we split now, for example. Text-wise, these are treated as being the same level of different as the Glohm enemies or Flopside Pit enemies.

Don't Create The Page (Oposse)

1. Arend (talk) Given that these have never been classified as a group, and that said group never even got the name "Cat Enemies", I would rather give each subject its own article instead. I would suggest retitling the proposed article to something like "List of cat variants of enemies in Bowser's Fury", but that would cover nearly every enemy in the entire campaign, which would be redundant. (side note, the Cat Goomba from Bowser's Fury should NOT be merged with the 3D World one)

Comments

Should be "enemies", not "enemys". Nightwicked Bowser 11:41, March 8, 2025 (EST)

Fixed. Sorbetti (talk) 12:05, March 8, 2025 (EST)

Wait, is this for a single page or a page for each enemy? I'd prefer the latter, the former would just be this page's enemy section. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:12, March 8, 2025 (EST)

All signs point to the former:

“I think it would be best to create a specific page for these enemies in general and thanks to this group them into a single differentiated article, the name of this page is simple Cat Enemies (Bowser's Fury)”

—Sorbetti
The guy even used {{fake link}} to indicate their proposed article name. rend (talk) (edits) 12:17, March 8, 2025 (EST)

@Sorbetti I appreciate that you have taken the initiative to raise these proposals, but some of them take a lot of work to implement and it often lies on the writer of the proposal themselves to roll out the changes if it passes. Are you sure you want to do all of these at once? - Nintendo101 (talk) 12:13, March 8, 2025 (EST)

I am aware of this, however I do not see other people aware of these issues so I take the initiative, although I am not yet an expert in creating pages, however with a little help and instructions I have no problem creating more proposals.Sorbetti (talk)

@Sorbetti Can I suggest you to add a third option to give each enemy an individual article instead? Rule 17 of Proposals states you have four days to make changes to yours. rend (talk) (edits) 12:17, March 8, 2025 (EST) YesSorbetti (talk)