User talk:Dogman15

Welcome, Dogman15!

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Edits on the talkpage

Hi. Please don't reply to year old topics on talkpages, as the subject will have been sorted out, and no longer requires input. Thanks and keep contributing. Yoshi876 (talk)

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe 3DS Wuhu Town music

Hi, I noticed you credited Ryo Nagamatsu for the Mario Kart 8 Deluxe arrangement of the 3DS Wuhu Town music. Where is your source for this? As far as I can tell, there are no official sources that confirm any composers for the music of these tracks.

- Mario54671

Putting down his name as the original composer from Wii Sports Resort may have been my intention in April, and if that's the case, then the edit that "Mario jc" made in September only clarifies that. But if you take a look at the known facts, it's not hard to draw the following conclusion: Ryo Nagamatsu was one of four composers/arrangers for Mario Kart 8, and one of eight composers for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Original composers coming back to arrange their own compositions for a reappearance in a later title is fairly common in Nintendo. Ryo Nagamatsu did it for Moo Moo Meadows, and sort of did it for the credits music, which he ended with a callback to the credits music of Mario Kart Wii. Asuka Ohta (Hayazaki) revisited her Grumble Volcano composition from Mario Kart Wii to arrange it for Mario Kart 8. Satomi Terui did it for DK Jungle from Mario Kart 7 to Mario Kart 8, though I'll admit that almost no re-arranging was done. Probably just a remastering.

Kenta Nagata returned to arrange Baby Park after Shinobu Tanaka had previously returned in Mario Kart DS to arrange the same piece that either she or Nagata (or both) had written. Kenta Nagata also revisited his Toad's Turnpike composition from Mario Kart 64 in Neo Bowser City for Mario Kart 7, and revisited that theme again in Mario Kart 8. Also in Mario Kart DS, Kenta Nagata revisited the following compositions of his from Mario Kart 64: Moo Moo Farm, Frappe Snowland, Choco Mountain, and Banshee Boardwalk. From Double Dash, the returning tracks in Mario Kart DS may or may not have been originally composed by him, too.

In conclusion, there's precidence, and it's not a stretch to conclude that in addition to being the original composer of the theme from Wii Sports Resort, Ryo Nagamatsu also arranged the theme for Wuhu Town in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.

While I do like your reasoning, I would say it's still a stretch to conclude this. Original composers coming back to rearrange their own compositions is actually not very common at Nintendo, even when that original composer works on their own series again. Take the mainline Super Mario games. The music was composed by Koji Kondo back in the old days up until and including Super Mario Sunshine, where he contributed about half of its soundtrack (and provided all the main themes). While Kondo has contributed tracks to more recent games, it's no secret that his role has taken quite the backseat. When he does involve himself in a new game, it's never a remix of an old composition, it's brand new original music

In New Super Mario Bros. on the DS, there were many remixes/arrangements of his old classic tunes, but he himself had nothing to do with them. He was only involved with one track, and it was an original composition (the main theme). In the Super Mario Galaxy games, much of his music from Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, and Super Mario 64 was brought back and rearranged. Kondo, however, had nothing to do with those arrangements; it was Mahito Yokota who arranged them, Kondo only actively worked on four tracks for Super Mario Galaxy (really just two, one of which was three separate arrangements of the same composition), and five tracks for Super Mario Galaxy 2 (again, really only three here). The same thing applies to Super Mario 3D World which has lots of old classic music from the series past, but the only compositions Kondo worked on were new and original. For Super Mario Odyssey, the same thing applies, yet again. This time, he was involved with 14 compositions, and every single one of them was new and original. Again, Odyssey had plenty of remixes, but Kondo had nothing to do with them.

And honestly, why would he? Kondo's role as a music composer has taken a backseat because he's taken on a great deal more responsibility at Nintendo at the turn of the century (training the new composers and all, and managing their whole sound division), so whenever he does get to sit down and compose for a new mainline Super Mario or Legend of Zelda game, why would they waste his talent on an arrangement of his old tracks when one of the newer talents are more than capable of handling it?

I know you'll likely bring up the Super Smash Bros. series and say that guys like Koji Kondo and Kazumi Totaka arrange their own music there. Fine, fair enough. But the entire point of that particular series is to celebrate past Nintendo titles… it only makes sense that a composer would be brought back to write a "celebratory" arrangement of music from a series he or she is known for.

Anyway, back to Mario Kart, as that's what this was originally about. Ryo Nagamatsu redoing his own Moo Moo Meadows from Mario Kart Wii is actually not the norm, and in fact, I was surprised when I found out that he wrote the original and made the new arrangement. Based on the ordering of the credits (and the style of the music resembling many of the supporting tracks from Super Mario Sunshine), Mario Kart: Double Dash seemed to have far more involvement from Shinobu Nagata (maiden name, Tanaka), with Kenta Nagata having more of a supporting role. Kenta Nagata had zero involvement in Mario Kart DS, that was all Shinobu Nagata. With Mario Kart Wii, neither of them played any role whatsoever with this game, as the music was done primarily by Asuka Hayazaki, with Ryo Nagamatsu being the secondary composer. The returning tracks from Mario Kart 64 either received a cleanup, or were simply recreated very faithfully (minus Skyscraper, that one was weird). To me, they all just sound like direct rips with cleanups, especially the Double Dash and Mario Kart DS music. Kenta Nagata did return as main composer for Mario Kart 7, hence there were a few callbacks. However, he did not "revisit" his old composition of Toad's Turnpike from Mario Kart 64, he simply quoted the second half of the melody. Neo-Bowser City is really just a techno remix of the main "Circuit" theme of that game, and he simply sprinkled in a little bit of nostalgia. It's not a full blown remix, just a nice little quote. Turning to Mario Kart 8, Wii Grumble Volcano and 3DS DK Jungle, again, sound like direct rips. This is why the soundtrack likely credits Asuka Hayazaki and Satomi Terui for those individual compositions. They didn't "return" to remaster them or anything, the tracks were simply left alone, untouched. As a result, it would've been inappropriate to credit the four composers who primarily worked on the Mario Kart 8 soundtrack. Neo-Bowser City was given an additional guitar bit with the Toad's Turnpike quote, hence it technically counts as a "new arrangement." Since the original composition was likely Kenta Nagata's anyway (since he wrote the Circuit theme of that game), it's a no brainer to just credit him with this.

Notice, however, that most of the music that was rearranged from the ground up had no involvement from the legacy composers. None of the Mario Kart 64 arrangements were done by Kenta Nagata, none of the Super Mario Kart nor the Super Circuit composers came back to give us a new take on their old music. Actually, it was Kenta Nagata who gave us GBA Ribbon Road of all people. Wii Grumble Volcano was untouched, and Wii Wario's Gold Mine was, again, handled by Kenta Nagata, who had zero involvement with the original game. I know there's the GCN Baby Park example you gave, but like I said (and this is where I throw in my personal inference), I don't think Kenta Nagata wrote the original tune. It sounds nothing like his style, and if anything, sounds a lot more consistent with the style of the tunes that are known to have been written by Shinobu Nagata. Hence, this is why the new version in Mario Kart 8 has far more guitar and less of that whimsical honkey-tonk piano.

So, no, I don't think that because one person had involvement with the original game and their name is listed on the new one, that therefore means that they had something to do with the new arrangement that came from said game. Most of the time this is not the case. If anything, it'd make more sense that the new Mario Kart 8 Deluxe music involved the four new composers who were added to the credits (Kazumi Totaka, Toru Minegishi, Asuka Hayazaki, and Koji Kondo).

I reserve the right to be wrong on this, though. If it is indeed confirmed that he made the arrangement, then fair enough. Like I said, Moo Moo Meadows is the weird exception, and I'd be the first to acknowledge this. Hell, I was the one who made the correction on the Moo Moo Meadows page here, as they'd previously listed both Asuka Hayazaki and Ryo Nagamatsu, when it's known that Nagamatsu contributed that one himself.

You sound as nerdy as me, and with just as much free time (if not more). You're writing this wall of text as if I didn't already know most or any of this stuff. I'll admit I was pretty "know-it-all" in my first reply to you, but you amplified that "well, actually" tone. Good job. So you might be right, and you might be wrong. Same goes for me. I can be wrong, too. We're both sticklers for trivia and factoids about music composers. Dogman15 (talk) 01:12, December 20, 2020 (EST)

Half-Pipe

Hi, about the half-pipe situation, there is also no such thing as quarter-pipes. They have never been called that. I think the quarter-pipes should be reverted back to half-pipes. What is your opinion? WildWario (talk) (talk) 08:35, August 21, 2021 (EDT)

My opinion is that I don't know how you can say that "there is no such thing as quarter-pipes. They have never been called that." I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but it's a perfectly valid term to describe a curved ramp that makes one-quarter of a circle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-pipe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skatepark Check out those sources; they directly contradict your claim. There's also a slight difference between a vert (a ramp that turns into a vertical wall going straight up) and a quarter-pipe (which doesn't go completely vertical and is easier to exit from without going back down again). Mario Kart Wii, having newly added bikes, makes extensive use of quarter-pipes to trick off of, as well as occasional half-pipes, most notably on Wii DK Summit. Heck, that article even says "This course introduces the half-pipe ramps in this game." So I could be wrong, and that's the only track in the game with a halfpipe. Everything else is unpaired quarter-pipes, but people just lazily call them half-pipes because it's a more common term or something, I guess? Dogman15 (talk) 06:47, August 29, 2021 (EDT)

If that is the reason, the Half-Pipe article might need to be changed. Though with Mario Kart Tour getting new Mario Kart Wii courses and bringing back half-pipes, we might be able to get some more confirmation about the names soon. WildWario (talk) (talk) 08:17, August 29, 2021 (EDT)

By chance, I noticed that article on my own before reading your reply here. It is similarly my opinion that much of that article's current form and its title is the result of the misunderstanding by many people of the difference between quarter-pipes and halfpipes. Something should be done, but I don't have the energy to care about this right now. Dogman15 (talk) 00:53, August 30, 2021 (EDT)

Titles

Hello, please remember to italicise game titles when naming them per the Manual of Style (so Mario Kart Wii should be formatted as Mario Kart Wii). Mario JC 05:29, September 20, 2021 (EDT)