MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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|'''Proposals''' can be new features (such as an extension), removal of a previously added feature that has tired out, or new policies that must be approved via [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] before any action(s) are done.
*Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!"
*"Vote" periods last for one week.
*All past proposals are [[/Archive|archived]].
|}
A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code <nowiki>{{user|</nowiki>''User name''<nowiki>}}</nowiki>. '''This page observes the [[MarioWiki:No-Signature Policy|No-Signature Policy]].'''


<h2 style="color:black">How To</h2>
==Writing guidelines==
#Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
''None at the moment.''
#Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
#*Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
#*Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
#*Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
#Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
#At any time a vote may be rejected if at least '''three''' active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
#"<nowiki>#&nbsp;</nowiki>" should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
#All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
#If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of '''three''' votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
#Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "[[Wikipedia:Quorum|NO QUORUM]]." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
#No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than '''4 weeks''' ('''28 days''') old.
#Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, the proposer can request that their proposal be deleted by a [[MarioWiki:Administrators|Sysop]] at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it.
#All proposals are archived. The original proposer must '''''take action''''' accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a Sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
#There shouldn't be proposals about creating articles on a underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a [[MarioWiki:PipeProject|PipeProject]].
#Proposals can not be made about [[MarioWiki:Administrators|System Operator]] promotions and demotions. Sysops can only be promoted and demoted by the will of [[MarioWiki:Bureaucrats|Bureaucrats]].
#No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters, and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.


The times are in EDT (UTC -4:00), and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights).  If a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.
==New features==
===Create a template to crop images on-the-fly without having to tamper with the base file's dimensions===
So {{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} shared this nifty template that TCRF has: [[tcrf:Template:CSS image crop]], which allows images to be displayed in mainspace at a cut-out size from how they are on the image files themselves. This has two utilities: one is shrinking to a relevant entity in group textures such as {{file link|M&SatL2012OG Wii audience.png|this one}}, and the other is to avoid blank space without having to crop the raw graphic parameters - thus allowing best-of-both-worlds for the previous proposal I attempted (and failed), as it satisfies the OCD itch of avoiding bad and/or inconsistent crops on the base files without taking up unnecessary space where the images are actually used. It also removes a lot of unnecessary work actually cropping/uncropping images since you don't have to save them to a machine/web address to upload a new version - you can just put in the parameters you want and go from there.


__TOC__
'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT


<center><span style="font-size:200%">CURRENTLY: '''{{LOCALTIME}}, {{LOCALDAY}} {{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALYEAR}} (EDT)'''</span></center>
====C-S-Yes====
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Goes without saying I think this is a good idea.
#{{user|Super Mario RPG}} Sounds like a reasonable compromise.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} It's better to crop an existing image programmatically than having to upload a cropped version for a specific use case.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Seems useful.
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} Sometimes I just find random things on other Wikis and remember a previously failed proposal. I hope this helps out!
#{{user|EvieMaybe}} per Jdtendo! this seems very useful


==New Features==
====No new template====
''None at the moment.
 
====Comments on CSS image crop====
This appears to be similar to [[Template:Squared icon|a template I have made]] in order to crop images to perfectly squared off icons for uses on pages such as [[Pipe Frame]] (e.g. displaying Mii Racing Suit icons in the same table as other character icons); however, the version you're presenting seems to include more options. I'm not gonna vote yet, but so far I don't see the harm to have this other template too. {{User:Arend/sig}} 06:42, November 27, 2024 (EST)


==Removals==
==Removals==
===Polls===
===Remove video game console generations===
I think we should remove the archives as some of the polls are still ridiculous and have only not been deleted because nobody can be bothered to oppose them. If we can't remove the archives then howabout just letting us edit them. Some people might want to change their vote as there are still to many polls and they might just want to do away with it.
I would imagine most people who have discussed video games in the past have heard of {{wp|History of video_game consoles#Console generations|video game console generations}}. It is a tool to categorize video game hardware and its place in time. There is just one problem: the current video game console generation system is flawed. If you would like to further read into the specifics as to why I would recommend this [https://www.timeextension.com/features/is-wikipedia-really-to-blame-for-video-game-console-generations Time Extension article] by Jack Yarwood. But in short, the phrase "next generation" originates as a term used starting around the 1990s, as video games evolved over the many years, Wikipedia editors would create their own video game console generation system that has for the most part remained unchanged since its introduction in the early 2000s. This generation system would slowly be adopted by other sites, media, and the people who engage with video games.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User|YellowYoshi127}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' July 13, 2009, 17:00
 
====Delete Archives====
#{{User|YellowYoshi127}} Yoshi! I for one, want to change my vote and see lots of polls deleted because I was trying to be friendly even if they were stupid. Plus, They cause a lot of problems. (see Below in timmy tim's)
#{{User|Timmy Tim}} Those archives are just as problematic as the original poll selection page. Firstly, I had to change a link that had 'Archive 4' linked to 'Archive 1'. Secondly, Archive 1 only has 24 polls in it because one of them was picked and the polls weren't moved along. And finally, Archive 4, the last one, has 22 polls and should be on the main poll selection page.
 
====Keep Archives the same and let rubbish polls stay up.====
#{{User|Super Mario Bros.}} Well, then the users who voted should have cared to oppose them. The archives are already protected, there was too much work that went into organizing the whole thing (which included: Getting them from the original page to the archives, deleting the polls with two more opposes than supporters, deleting signatures that breaks the rules, and getting someone to protect the archives to preserve the original content, as well as moving the pages to another and the deletion of the older redirects). Too many hundreds of edits went into that project, and if the polls are that ridiculous, set up a mini-proposal on the talk page of the Poll Selection page requesting to delete rubbish polls. If they are that bad, the votes will say to delete it, and a sysop/bureaucrat can go ahead with the decision that was made. Some of the polls are really good, and those ones shouldn't be deleted for the rubbish polls that are in there. And, on the same idea you have YY127, if you voted on a proposal, you can't just change your vote ''after'' it is archived. That should apply to the polls too.
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! Leave the archive as they are, they made the poll selection more organized. And about the bad polls, leave them alone, sooner or later they will be deleted. Hmphh, I just thought of something funny, if there is a really bad poll Zafum will fly in on his airship with his fleet of opposers (including Timmy Tim) and shoot all of there laser canons at that poll, while doing an evil laugh. Zero signing out.
#{{User|SpriteYoshi}}I agree Per Zero
#The reason wikis have history links is to allow users to see the past of the article, archiving an article preserves all memories of the history of a wiki. These memories are very useful in teaching us what has happened in the past and showing us how this wiki has improved through the ages. Deleting all of this information would be like destroying part of the MarioWiki's history, like burning down a historical relic. Keep them there as a memory to all other users about how the wiki begun and how it has changed. If we delete all records of the past, where will we learn what to do in the future so that we don't make the same mistakes twice. Oh ya, per SMB {{User|Marioguy1}}
 
====Comments====
#{{user|SpriteYoshi}} Im Kinda neutral as the Archives Should not be Touched but Rubbish Polls so be Smited (EDIT: Lol i mispelled my own name
:To respond: From what it sounds like, Tucayo's poll supports deleting the archives, that's why he said 100%, there is only one poll on the [[MarioWiki:Poll Selection|Poll Selection]] page, yet there are almost 100 in the archives. As I said above, you could also make a semi-proposal on the Poll Selection talk page if you want a poll deleted, if it is clear that most of the users deem one of the polls "rubbish" and they want it deleted, a sysop/bureaucrat can go ahead (as the archives a protected to prevent other users from editing them). But going ahead and changing your votes after the polls basically passed is not good: If we allowed that on other pages, things can get very hectic. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}} 14:27, 6 July 2009 (EDT)
::Lol, Zafum. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
 
==Splits & Merges==
''None at the moment.
 
==Changes==
===No Name, No Vote, No creator's username, deleted poll===
Alright, so I was looking at the poll selection page, as everybody know it is becomeing disorganized, cluttered-up, and a mess, so I came up with an idea to fix that problem. I propose that if anybody makes a poll and he/she doesn't leave there username as (under support): #(username here) (creator), or any other way to tell other users that he/she is the creator of that poll, that poll will be deleted. Also, if anybody support, oppose, and/or comment without leaving there username before there vote and/or before or after there comment it will also be deleted, because when users don't leave there username before they support or oppose, everybody elses votes after that user will be altered. If this proposal does pass, it will be easier to keep track of the polls, it will avoid confusion upon the votes and/or comments, and it can eliminate a lot of polls, if they don't follow this rule.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Zero777}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' Friday, 10 July 2009, 20:00
 
====Support====
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! This proposal was made to prevent confusion upon keeping track of the polls and confusion of the votes, like I said if this proposal does pass it will be easier to keep track of the polls and it can eliminate a lot of polls if they don't follow this rule. One more thing, the title was last minute, if any of you have ideas please put it in the comments. Zero signing out.
#{{User|Booman}} This is good,because if there is a poll where a person could support,but then oppose without putting their username,and if the creater's poll is deleted and he didn't put their username,how are we going to know who to tell that their poll was deleted?
#{{User|Timmy Tim}} Yeah, some polls, like that godawful Mario V Godzilla one are so bad that not even their creator will suport them.
#[[User:Mario freak]] Per all. oh and by the way if you go to my page you will know why I put that Mario vs. Godzilla page up. Peace Out!
#{{User|Super Mario Bros.}} Per all.
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} It would help shorten long pages and keep everything in track, so I agree with this proposal.
#{{User|Yoshi Boo 118}} I agree. Per all.
#{{User|Cobold}} - YES to: Delete future polls without a credited user, delete votes without names, and restrict the number of open polls per starter. NO to: removing the archives or applying those new rules to the archives. - My reasons: We really need to regulate it because it is a mess; but I don't see any point in touching the archives. I don't think you can enforce new rules retroactively.
#{{user|SpriteYoshi}} Per all
#Organization=knowledge of users, knowledge of users=appreciation of users, appreciation of users=good! {{User|Marioguy1}}
#{{User|Zafum}}  Though I think that this proposal is kind of silly, I suppose it's for better, not for worse.


====Oppose All====
Within the scope of the major [[Nintendo]] video game consoles, this is currently how the video game console generation system is categorized.


====Comments====
First generation: [[Color TV-Game]]<br>
Man, why dont we just delete ALL the Polls, they are a huge problem, they are not updated, they are a MESS. {{User|Tucayo}} Want me to continue?
Second generation: [[Game & Watch]]<br>
:I would have to say Tucayo has a great point, also, I would like to add that this does not have to be a proposal, it is basically understood that all users need to sign there comments, votes, and the such; and we don't have to create a rule that basically states the obvious. Also, per my above vote. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
Third generation: [[Family Computer]], [[Nintendo Entertainment System]]<br>
::Per Tucayo, so.... where should i paste my vote? i mean i think Deleting all them is a good idea {{user|Castle Toad}}
Fourth generation: [[Super Famicom]], [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]], [[Game Boy]]<br>
:::I'm working on splitting the page and removing ones that break rules, I would say oppose right now because all the work I'm doing (and that went into my proposal which passed). Do whatever you feel is right, your vote does ''not'' have to be what I want it to be, but you have my suggestion. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}<br>
Fifth generation: [[Nintendo 64]], [[Game Boy Color]]<br>
Timmy Tim, I already deleted the Godzilla one. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
Sixth generation: [[Nintendo GameCube]], [[Game Boy Advance]]<br>
:Plus, I already split the page. If you still want to go through with the proposal, then most of the unnecessary polls are already gone. I deleted the ones with two more opposes than supporters, which brought the number of polls down to 98. So, if this proposal passes, you need to re-merge the pages, and request a sysop to delete the pages that are left over. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
Seventh generation: [[Wii]], [[Nintendo DS]]<br>
::I renamed the oppose section because Tucayo made a new section, I now realize that it is not a good idea to delete all the polls. I already went through all the polls, deleted what needed to be deleted, etc. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
Eighth generation: [[Wii U]], [[Nintendo 3DS]], [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>
Ninth generation: [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>


Cobold, he rewrote the proposal so that it would not affect the archives, I suggest changing your votes. The proposal now seems to be in favor of your vote. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}} 23:23, 4 July 2009 (EDT)
There is one obvious problem that you might have noticed. The Nintendo Switch is in the eighth and ninth generation. This is due to when the Nintendo Switch first released: March 3, 2017. The current system begins the ninth generation in November 2020 with the release of the {{wp|Xbox Series X and Series S|Xbox Series X/S}} and {{wp|PlayStation 5}} consoles. This is despite how for most of the lifespan of the Nintendo Switch, it has actually been competing against consoles that under this system is a whole generation ahead. Because of this, it is not entirely clear where the Nintendo Switch is in the video game console generation system and the solution is to simply file it in both generations rather than one or the other.
:Also, Walkazo protected the archives per my request because people were changing them and voting on them, even though they passed. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}


Um, how come there are 100 that passed? What are the rules for passing again? {{User|Booderdash}} ok 100?
Now the Nintendo Switch is a hybrid console, but what about portable consoles? The current video game console generation system lumps in both home and portable consoles. If the goal of the generation system was to be based on hardware specifications than it ultimately falls flat with consoles such as the 16-bit [[Super Famicom]] and [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]] home consoles being in the same generation as the 8-bit [[Game Boy]] portable console. For home consoles there is absolutely nothing in the second generation, with the [[Color TV-Game]] consoles being in the first and the [[Family Computer]] and [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] consoles being in the third. Portable consoles have a similar issue with nothing in the third generation, with the [[Game & Watch]] line in the second and the [[Game Boy]] being in the fourth.
:It's an archive of polls that were passed and are waiting to be on the main page. They all followed rules of passing, so that's why they are archived. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}


===Poll/Image Cleanup===
For these reasons, I think it should be considered to remove video game console generations from this wiki. It is ultimately a flawed tool that originates as something made up by various Wikipedia editors that stuck around for far too long without real consideration of its flaws. If video game console generations are removed, we should gravitate towards more factual descriptions that better represent the consoles.
I think we should have a specific day of the week to add a different poll to the main page because the latest poll stayed on for about a '''Month''' by which time it had got really boring. On the image front I think we should delete an image that has been on too long without being featured because it probably never will get featured as it probably is a Love/Hate Image which wouldn't really manage to get featured.


'''Proposer:''' {{User|YellowYoshi127}}<br>
Home consoles: 1. [[Color TV-Game]] 2. [[Family Computer]], [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] 3. [[Super Famicom]], [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]] 4. [[Nintendo 64]] 5. [[Nintendo GameCube]], 6. [[Wii]] 7. [[Wii U]] 8. [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>
'''Deadline:''' July 13, 2009, 17:00
Portable consoles: 1. [[Game & Watch]] 2. [[Game Boy]] 3. [[Game Boy Color]] 4. [[Game Boy Advance]] 5. [[Nintendo DS]] 6. [[Nintendo 3DS]] 7. [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>


====For the cleanup and updation of polls/images====
Home console example: "The [[Nintendo 64]] is the fourth [[Nintendo]] home console platform."<br>
#{{User|YellowYoshi127}} Yoshi! I really want to see some polls deleted and new polls every week as it would make the Poll/Image pages less boring.
Portable console example: "The [[Nintendo DS]] is the fifth [[Nintendo]] portable console platform."<br>
#Sounds diplomatic, speeds up the process, though it might be harder on users if it sped up any more {{User|Marioguy1}}
Hybrid console example: "The [[Nintendo Switch]] is the seventh portable and eighth home [[Nintendo]] console platform."<br>
#{{User|SpriteYoshi}} Per Marioguy1
#{{User|Timmy Tim}} It's still a mess in the poll selection. And weekly polls actually being weekly would be nice. Why not do them on Thursday like the images?


====Against cleanup and updation of polls/images====
This alternative system does have flaws with the Switch being in two categories again, however that is due to the Switch being a hybrid between a home and portable console. The reason the console is in two video game generations according to Wikipedia is not as clear. Another much straightforward solution would be to simply list the predecessor and successor of each console.
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! I disagree, even though there is a lot of dumb qestions, I still like the rule about two or more opposers, it's not really that fair for just one vote to get the poll deleted, I say to stick with the two or more opposers rule. But everything else I agree on. Zero signing out.
#{{User|Super Mario Bros.}} I overall like the suggestions, but I don't think we should apply these rules to the archives, we don't apply newer rules to the Proposal archives (in most cases) or most other archives. Plus, a suggestion, if this proposal does pass, I think you should include the "Majority Rule" which was designed by Walkazo for the proposals page, it can make polls harder to pass.
#{{User|Zafum}} - Wow there are alot of proposals about the polls! One major flaw with this proposal is that if the first person to vote opposes it, then the poll will be deleted. I think that my rule for 2 more opposers than supporters is still good. Something should definitely be done about there being so many polls, but something a bit different than this.


====Comments====
Example: "The predecessor to the [[Nintendo 64]] is the [[Super Famicom]] and [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]] and the successor is the [[Nintendo GameCube]]."
#Could you please go more in-depth in what you mean? {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
#Yoshi! I mean having the main page updated with a new poll every week, deleting an image if its been on the F.I page for too long (say around 40- days) and reducing the deletion expectance from 2 more Oppsrs than spprtrs to omly 1 supporter (creator) so a bad poll is more likely to get deleted.(Archives as well) {{User|YellowYoshi127}}
:Well, I'm not sure about the last point. The archived rules should follow the older rules, any newer Poll nominations should follow the new rules. I hate doing this, but another example relating to proposals are the ones that have signatures. We don't apply the rule about signatures to the older ones that have signatures because they were made before that rule was created, and as of such, if you go to some of the earlier proposals, you will see that votes and comments were signed with signatures. I don't think that applying your proposed rules to the archives would be fair to the older poll nominations, but they would be good to apply to newer nominations. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}} 15:53, 6 July 2009 (EDT)


===Update One After Another===
This is the most likely solution if video game console generations were removed. It is easy to understand and already implemented to an extent. The work required is simply the removal process with minimal addition.
I propose that everything on the main page like featured article, featured image, poll, and did you know sections should all be updated between one hour to one day after another, it doesn't really matter in what order they should be in, just as long as they are updated, and there time limit should be one week of staying in the main page, Mario news and proposal section should be the only exceptions. I said this because one time the "did you know" section, it had the same three trivias stayed there for about three months and like six months ago on the poll section it didn't work on some computers. The main page is sometimes confusing to keep track of even if your'e a user or just a visitor to the site, so that is why I came up with this idea.


'''Proposer:''' {{User|Zero777}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Bro3256}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' Monday, 13 July 2009, 17:00
'''Deadline''': December 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
====Support====
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! A lot of users will agree on this idea, since its simple but it affects not only users but also visitors coming to the SMW. Zero signing out.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per proposal.
 
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} console generations make more sense when comparing against several different consoles. for our use case, they're pretty irrelevant.
#{{User|Timmy Tim}} Per Zero.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per proposer and EvieMaybe.
 
#{{User|Bro3256}} Per proposal.
====Oppose====
#{{User|Super Mario Bros.}} Per my first 2 comments below.
#{{User|Marioguy1}} OK, I think it should be more like, the quote updates every hour, the image every day and the article every week.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Just be glad they get turned over at all. The Wiki is very high-maintenance, and the last thing the few people who have enough initiative to update these features need is an arbitrary schedule to try and follow.
#{{user|Castle Toad}} Per Walkazo
 
====Comment====
Not to be rude, but that would screw up the Featured Article and/or Featured Images schedule, each one is only supposed to be up on the Main Page for a week, it's not that simple, even though it seems minor, this would require a lot of work during a day. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}} 18:47, 6 July 2009 (EDT)
:Plus, we don't control the Quote of the Day, it is randomly selected by a program. I agree with you on the subject of the "Did You Know" section, that could use work. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}} 18:52, 6 July 2009 (EDT)
::What's funny is that I make 1 proposal about the Poll Selection page, and we get a swarm of them after it passes. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}} 19:02, 6 July 2009 (EDT)
 
===Change Poll Selection (Archiving) System===
A lot of people seems to have a problem with the archiving system of the poll selection page, so I suggest we change it to the system used by the Proposals archive: We unprotect the archives and we use the scroll box template to put the votes and comments in; and we put failed polls in the archives, but we mark them as such (as in the proposals archive, also). Also, I'm proposing that we keep the archives, do '''not''' apply new rules to them, and select a poll from them biweekly (enough time for a lot of people to vote, but not too long) to put on the main page. If there is an archived poll that somebody finds rubbish and a good candidate for being failed, we will set up a proposal type page made for removing polls. This would also require setting up an archive for these semi-proposals. It is not as difficult as it sounds, it would actually be more of a benefit than deleting the archives that we have now. All these proposed pages can be linked to on the main Poll Selection page. When they are set up (if this proposal passes), I will make sure that it is easy to navigate and that they are set up well and are understandable.<br>
Also, a few more things I would like to suggest in this proposal. I already made a rule for this on the page, but I want to add a few more things that would go along with the proposal: ''If a poll has been on the Poll Selection page for a week and it has 1+ more opposing vote than support votes, it will be considered a "failed" poll and will be marked as such in the archives. If it has the same amount of oppose votes as support votes, the deadline will be extended for a week. If a poll has 1+ more support votes than oppose votes, it will be marked as such in the archives and can be selected to go on the main page.'' The deadline system would be the same as the proposals deadline system, with Monday-Thursday being 17:00, Fridays and Saturdays being 20:00, and Sundays being 15:00. Of course, the user who suggests the poll '''must''' put the deadline on their poll, as well as that they were the creator. The same deadline system would apply to the semi-proposals page.<br>
Also, in addition to that, I propose that we use the '''Clear-Majority Rule''' originally created by Walkazo for the proposals page. If a poll suggestion has '''10+ votes total''', it has a pass/fail margin of 3 votes. What this means is if a poll selection with ten (or more) votes either wins or loses by 0-2 votes, the deadline will be extended. If it wins or loses by 3 votes or more, it passes.<br>
Any suggestions can go in the comments section.<br>
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' 14 July 2009, 17:00
 
====Support====
#{{User|Super Mario Bros.}} Per me.
#{{User|YellowYoshi127}} Yoshi! Fabulous, this should tidy the polls/archives up a bit more
#{{User|Paper Yoshi}} - I totally agree. You're a genius, SMB. :P
#{{User|SpriteYoshi}} Per All
 
====Oppose====
 
====Comments====
 
===Two Polls a Week===
I think that we should pass two polls per week instead of one. There is a nice amount of votes that come in, and doing this wouldn't change the amount of votes by much. This would help controll the amount of polls on the selection page, and make sure that visitors will come to the wiki more often. The polls would pass on Tuesdays and Saturdays. If there is a tie, then the passing of a poll would be postponed untill next Saturday or Tuesday.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Zafum}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' 14 July 2009, 17:00


====Support====
#{{User|Zafum}} - Per me.
#{{User|YellowYoshi127}} Yoshi! Despite 2 a week meaning not having enogh time to vote, it certainly would help cut down on polls. Yes and we shall get lots more visitors.
====Oppose====
====Oppose====
#{{User|Super Mario Bros.}} If you follow the system I proposed in my proposal (the one right above yours), this will be possible to do.
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - Regardless of contemporary awkwardness, it's still useful comparing the timelines for the ones of the past. I've ''still'' seen people not realize the GBC was in circulation around the same time of the N64 based on nothing but their respective bit-count.
#{{User|SpriteYoshi}} Per SMB
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} - This feels like a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". While we've always found the "console generations" thing really, really strange (as you can expect from a metric born from ''Wikipedia itself''), we can't deny that it is still useful to a degree, and unlike, say, calling unused content "beta" content, the term "console generation" is still a term that sees active use in gaming circles, even if as of late Nintendo's side of it has gotten a bit desynced. In addition, as was pointed out in the comments, the [[Philips CD-i]] is noticeably absent, but in addition to that, so is the [[Virtual Boy]], which is even more directly Nintendo related? Not that we'd particularly like this even if both of these were accounted for, mind...
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Without the Virtual Boy in here, this numbering scheme just flat-out isn't actually true. As such, I can't support this proposal.
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Perhaps a better idea is to use <code>Cross-generation ({{tem|wp|Eighth generation of video game consoles|eighth}}—{{tem|wp|Ninth generation of video game consoles|ninth}})</code> on the Nintendo Switch page and use <code>{{tem|wp|[No.] generation of video game consoles|[No.] generation}}</code> on pages on all other systems. As such, I'm opposing this proposal.


====Comments====
====Comments====
Is this putting a 2-poll limit for each week, or will this allow more than 2? {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
I disagree with the premise, since a tool that is helpful but flawed is still helpful. Moreover, we do cover a couple of devices that do not fit on a Nintendo-exclusive relative timeline, namely the [[Philips CD-i]] and the [[Triforce]] arcade boards. I guess "contemporary to the _____" works just as well, but there's a level of "semantics over broader public" thing that I'm a little iffy about if that kind of phrasing has to be used. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 13:51, November 29, 2024 (EST)


==Miscellaneous==
===Article censorship===
I want to settle this once and for all.  Do we want to censor the Bob Hoskins article or not?<br>
'''Proposer:''' {{user|Clear Discoherency}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' 11 July 2009, 20:00


==== Don't censor it====
Where the HECK is the [[Virtual Boy]] in all of this? Nintendo's ''actual'' third portable console and part of the fourth generation (or fifth? It was supposed to keep customers occupied while waiting for the Nintendo 64), as it was released in 1995? {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:43, November 29, 2024 (EST)
#{{user|Clear Discoherency}} We are a wiki dedicated to using full information on Mario, I wouldn't say to censor it
#{{User|Walkazo}} - This ''has'' been settled once and for all - on many occasions! This is an encyclopedia: our mandate is to communicate as many facts about ''Mario'' as we can, and that includes profane quotations. We do not censor ''anything''. Fortunately, in the case of Bob Hoskins, there is a way to communicate his negative attitude towards the [[Super Mario Bros. (film)|''Super Mario Bros.'' film]] without including the f-word, and we decided to go with option a while ago to avoid this reoccurring ''nightmare'' of a debate.
#{{user|KPH2293}}&mdash;An encyclopedia's goal is to report accurate information. We are under no obligation to censor facts just because people could potentially be offended by a simple word. It is the parent's responsibility to teach their children right and wrong, not ours. Our only goal is to report facts relating to the Mario series.
#{{User|Super Mario Bros.}} I guess every body else is right.
#{{User|Timmy Tim}} Per all. Why not put up a warning template or something like that?
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! A warning template will be a better idea. But I agree with this proposal, first of all SMW is a free encyclopedia that gives information on anything Mario[-related], second we are trying to make Mario'''wiki''' as close as possible to '''Wiki'''pedia with alternations on this webpage, I said that because, in Wikipedia, I don't have an account there but I can still go to an article about a vag***, te*******, se*, and pe*** with pictures and detail and a movie article called Fu** without them being cencored, and last of all on a side-note, try to make your proposal more convinsing. Zero signing out.
#{{User|SpriteYoshi}}Per All
#{{User|Marioguy1}}Per Zero


====Censor it====
:I didn't include select consoles in this proposal since my arguments mainly focused on the major [[Nintendo]] consoles. That is not to say consoles like the [[Virtual Boy]] and non-Nintendo consoles like the [[Philips CD-i]] aren't important (they are!), but I wanted to prioritize the issues present with how the video game geration system currently works with the major Nintendo consoles since these alone already present issues with the system without the additions of what was omitted for the purposes of this proposal.


====Comments====
:Regarding [[Triforce]], that is a whole different category of hardware. Arcade hardware for the most part has never worked with this generation system since it was primarly designed with home and portable consoles in mind. How do you even slot in arcade hardware to begin with? Arcade games had a completely different evolution to their console counterparts and were usually cutting edge at the time before any console equivalents made it to market, and even if they did unlike consoles, arcade hardware differs depending on the game. How can you be sure what a certain arcade game is running on is in a certain generation? --[[User:Bro3256|Bro3256]] ([[User talk:Bro3256|talk]]) 18:04, November 29, 2024 (EST)
{{user|Clear Discoherency}} I think this younger person stuff is bullcrap because if we all know what a swear is then how is exposing us to a swear gonna hurt us?  Explain that smb.
:Well, the young shouldn't have to be subject to your bullcrap, ok? we are supposed to be an age-friendly wiki. Movies and games themselves are rated PG-13 and T for Teens when swear words are present, and we are supposed to be a G-rated or E for Everyone wiki. So why do you want your bullshat so  bad, huh? {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}


I wouldn't think it would by true to the quote by changing quotes however. Why would anyone care about a quote with the f-word in it? Yknow I used to not swear at all but when I realized it was pointless to not swear I swear all the time now.{{user|Clear Discoherency}}
@Doc von Schmeltwick: I don't really see how that's an argument against this proposal. We have the release dates listed for the consoles, and the Game Boy Color article's very first sentence describes it as "the handheld counterpart of the Nintendo 64". Why is it also necessary to call them "fifth generation"? I'd argue that it's probably the least clear way of showing the connection, because I can't imagine "fifth generation" means anything to someone who doesn't know about when those consoles released. Not to mention that being in the same "generation" doesn't necessarily mean they were being sold at the same time, as the Wii U and Switch demonstrate. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 17:30, November 29, 2024 (EST)
:Yes, that may be the case for ''you'', but others try not to or don't like to. I myself do not like to curse. I find it vulgar and unnecessary. If we censor it, readers still understand that a curse word is being said, so what is the loss? {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}


This whole edit war is pointless anyway. Its only going on because Max2 acted immature about a little swear{{user|Clear Discoherency}}
@Ahemtoday: Please read above the comment I made in regards to the absence of [[Virtual Boy]]. Keep and mind that I was presenting it as one possible solution if video game console generations were removed. That is not to say it should be the solution used hence why I provided another alternative one. If the first system was implemented into the wiki than I would imagine [[Virtual Boy]] being included. --[[User:Bro3256|Bro3256]] ([[User talk:Bro3256|talk]]) 18:25, November 29, 2024 (EST)


Enough of the flamey remarks, already. We have no mandate to be a "kid-friendly" Wiki, all we are obligated to do is tell the truth. Every time someone goes on the Internet, they run the risk of running into profanity, or worse, and heck, you take the same exact risk everything you go outside. It's not our responsibility to shield little kids from words they are gonna learn sooner or later, and if it interferes with our abilities to communicate all the ''Mario''-centric information at our disposal, we ''shouldn't'' even be trying. In the case of [[Bob Hoskins]] we can preserve most of that quote without profanity; it was a compromise many agreed on, and it still stands. - {{User|Walkazo}}
Do we really discuss console generations extensively on the wiki? I do not know of any examples offhand. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:40, November 29, 2024 (EST)
:And to you, Walkazo, a proposal has been made, I'm not going to be shut up. I find it ridiculous that this is considered flaming, or that ''you'' consider this flaming, as I am stating my point of view. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}


I'm done arguing and wasting my breath about this even though it was pointless in the first place.  Go ahead and go eat each other if you want I'm setting this one out. {{user|Clear Discoherency}}
:The [[Family Computer]] and [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] articles are obvious examples but there's [[Mario%27s_Puzzle_Party#Trivia|this article's trivia section]] as an example of non-console articles.--[[User:Bro3256|Bro3256]] ([[User talk:Bro3256|talk]]) 00:08, November 30, 2024 (EST)
:Yeah, ok. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}


In response to SMB's earlier comment: A) I said "flamey", not "flaming". B) I wasn't talking about the proposal itself, I was talking about the comments:  "So why do you want your bullsh*t so  bad, huh?" "Well, the young shouldn't have to be subject to your bullcrap, ok?" "Explain that smb." - that's all egging each-other on, which is "flamey" - you're <s>both</s> rearing for a fight, and that's not acceptable, so just cool your jets. - {{User|Walkazo}}
<blockquote>"''There is one obvious problem that you might have noticed. The Nintendo Switch is in the eighth and ninth generation. This is due to when the Nintendo Switch first released: March 3, 2017. The current system begins the ninth generation in November 2020 with the release of the Xbox Series X/S and PlayStation 5 consoles. This is despite how for most of the lifespan of the Nintendo Switch, it has actually been competing against consoles that under this system is a whole generation ahead.''"</blockquote>


In response to Walkazo: Ok. Directed towards CD: Please delete this proposal. If the edit war is pointless, please just delete it. You should have dealt with Max2 yourself or had another user, perhaps sysop or bureaucrat, deal with him. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
But then I have to question: what about the {{wp|SG-1000}} and the {{wp|Master System|Mark III/Master System}} releasing just shy of a few years? I know it has a very time span compared to the Wii U and Switch, but if they are bundled under the third-generation, the Switch should also be this way for the eighth, right? {{User:PanchamBro/sig}} 01:00, November 30, 2024 (EST)
:<s>Since it's your proposal, you have to delete it.</s> - {{User|Walkazo}}
:There have been countless debates regarding the {{wp|SG-1000}} in particular due to it sharing nearly the exact same hardware as the {{wp|ColecoVision}} yet both consoles are in different generations despite being released within one year apart. However this side of the console generations debate is not relevant to the scope of this wiki.--[[User:Bro3256|Bro3256]] ([[User talk:Bro3256|talk]]) 01:20, November 30, 2024 (EST)


It is '''not''' mine, CD created it. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
==Changes==
:''True''... Sorry, I was just commenting based on the fact CD commented first and usually it's someone besides the Proposer who comments first... Plus it's late and I'm tired... - {{User|Walkazo}}
''None at the moment.''
::It's ok. i'm tired too. Ah forget it. I'm just going to remove my vote. i will probably wake up in the morning and realize that everybody else was right. Anywho, sorry for any flaming I could have almost started. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}


Just to be clear, is this only for [[Bob Hoskins]]? Because [[Princess_Toadstool_for_President]] has the word "fuck" in it, and it'd be nice to have it set in stone somewhere what happens when this inevitably comes up again. {{user|Twentytwofiftyseven}}
==Miscellaneous==
 
''None at the moment.''
Per twenty of two seven, walka please look at his points then tell me if we shouldn't have the word "fuck" in the Bob Hoskins article.--[[User:Clear Discoherency|Clear Discoherency]] 01:03, 5 July 2009 (EDT)
 
The deadline is up now anyway too bad we havn't reached a verdict besides walka's answer{{user|Clear Discoherency}}
:That's because the deadline was off. Proposals are supposed to be up for exactly one week. This hasn't even lasted a day. Anyway, it's been fixed. &mdash;{{user|KPH2293}}
 
Well, it's 4-0 against censorship, which is a pretty clear verdict. But, if it only applies to [[Bob Hoskins]], then that's not so much of an accomplishment of policy making. Now, I'm not sure why exactly there would be a need for a proposal so specific, but that's what the text seems to imply. After all, we can't really say "no lol it meant this," and expect it not to raise issues. Or, at least, I see it that way. {{user|Twentytwofiftyseven}} 01:24, 5 July 2009 (EDT)
 
"walka" is me, right? Pertaining to 2257's example, "jävla" has to be included in order to properly explain Bowser's "Din jäv-" quotation, and if we have the Swedish swear, why not the English equivalent? Still, like the Bob Hoskins quote, I ''suppose'' it would be possible to just leave the whole Trivia point as this, and still cover all the bases:
<blockquote>
In the Swedish dub, when Bowser gets smacked by the kid, he says "Din jäv-", but stops himself, as the word he was about to utter is a profanity. This can be compared to a truncated "F-" exclamation in English.
</blockquote>
Personally, I think the whole "jävla" exposition is interesting, but it's not ''essential'', so I can see why removing it (and the full Bob Hoskins quote) is a reasonable compromise in the face of these sort of heated debate. "Fuck" is simply not worth the trouble. - {{User|Walkazo}}
 
:My point is that this <s>might</s> will come up again in the future, so it would be nice to have an actual policy about it. Rather than arguing about it later, we could get it over with and use this as a policy for when censorship debates rise up again. And there's actually other pages with profanity, that was just an example. {{user|Twentytwofiftyseven}} 02:02, 5 July 2009 (EDT)
::We need a lot more official policies around here... I think the standing unofficial policy on profanity is that "We're an encyclopedia, and as such, we do not censor our articles. However, users are asked to use their discretion when dealing with profanity on the Wiki mainspace." We could easily add some sort of rule along those lines to a policy page somewhere, maybe with links to any text previously written about flaming and vandalism, so that people will know the difference between using curse words academically and using them in an unacceptable, vulgar manner. - {{User|Walkazo}}
 
===Restart Polls From Zero===
Well, i say we restart them all, like what i did with the pipeprojects, erase '''ALL''', the 100% of the polls and start them again with more organization (like the FI's). No more than 2 polls per user would be allowed. Any poll that breaks the rules will be deleted. each 3 days, every poll with more opposes than supports will be deleted. what do you think? and also no sigs.
Or, delete the poll selection thing, which means, no more polls.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Tucayo}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' July 13, 2009, 17:00
 
====Restart POlls====
#{{User|Tucayo}} They are a mess
#{{User|YellowYoshi127}} Yoshi! Yes , i agree. Plus a lot of polls are just rubbish.
#{{user|SpriteYoshi}}They are a big mess
#{{User|CastleToad}} Well.... yes, they are a mess
#{{User|Marioguy1}} Per all
#{{User|Super Mario Bros.}} As long as they don't touch the archives... But there are no [[MarioWiki:Poll Selection#Poll Submissions|polls]] to restart!
#{{User|Timmy Tim}} So long as we can put some up again, like those that actually had positive feedback. (My two polls [Sorry for seeming egocentric] are two good examples of polls that could be done again after the wiping. There are several other unique polls I'd like to keep. Also, some the polls contain information about outdated questions such as 'Should the Koopalings reappear?'
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! Alright I change sides, but if this proposal does pass you will need to give a warning to every single creator of every single poll to tell them to remove there polls and delete all the votes in that poll. I'm guessing if you do that, there will be a small percentage of polls removed, but the others will most likely will not move there polls because over 90% of all creators in the poll selection, I don't even see them anymore. Zero signing out.
#{{User|Zafum}} - Per all.
 
====Delete Poll Selection====
 
====Leave them as they are====
 
====Comments====
Zero777: 1. I dont see why to give time to the creators. 2. No, the wiki will load perfectly (well, as normal). 3. We dont need sensibility, we dont damage anybody. 4. yes, better than you, just that the proposer thing slipped out of my mind.<br>
SUper Mario Bros: Waste of time? there are many, ''hundreds'' of users who instead of editing the mainspace, use all their time in the poll selection page, which is really bad, beacuse polls arent the objective of this wiki. Actually i can name many of those users.<br>
Also, do you know Zero and SMB that if your proposal pass, ''you'' '''must''' take action to do everything you proposed? {{User|Tucayo}}<br>AndZero, i dont know if you saw this, but we have something that says ALL COMMENTS BELOW HERE and your proposal was above that.
:Zero777, he does know ho to make proposals, he has actually come up with many good ideas for them. Tucayo, I '''know''' that the proposer must take action to do everything that they proposed, that actually ties into the waste of time part... '''I WAS THE ONE WHO HAD TO REARRANGE, DELETE AND FIX SIGNATURES, DELETE POLLS WITH 2 MORE OPPOSES THAN SUPPORTERS, CREATE THE ARCHIVES AND MOVE THEM, AND ASK TO HAVE THEM PROTECTED.''' That is what I mean as a waste of time, it took me hours to do and actually caused KPH to move an archive page and delete five redirects. The whole project took anywhere between one hundred to two hundred edits. So yes, if this proposal passes, all the work that I did will be a waste of time that I could have used to make other edits. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}}
::Ok SMB, sorry. I understand your point, but not Zero's. Also, As we all know the page needs to be in constant mainteinance.{{User|Tucayo}}
:::It's okay, I'm sorry for exploding. I agree, Poll Selection ''should'' be in constant maintenance, but why should we delete the archives? I reorganized some of them, perhaps, as I suggested above, we make semi-proposals on the talk page of the main Poll Selection page. I could see that working, as not all of the polls are bad, we could try to save those ones (the good polls). {{User|Super Mario Bros.}} 15:27, 6 July 2009 (EDT)
::::I never said erasing archives, did I? Archives are good{{User|Tucayo}}
:::::But there ''was'' only one poll on the regular page, and it got removed for some reason. I thought that is what you meant based on that. {{User|Super Mario Bros.}} 15:39, 6 July 2009 (EDT)
 
<!-- Please do not remove, archive or place comments below this message. -->
&nbsp;

Latest revision as of 01:20, November 30, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Saturday, November 30th, 08:04 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  2. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  3. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  8. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  9. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  12. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  13. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  14. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  15. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  16. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  17. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  18. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  19. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  20. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 14 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "November 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

  • Determine how to handle the Tattle Log images from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) (discuss) Deadline: November 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT
  • Merge False Character and the Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams to List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses (discuss) Deadline: December 2, 2024, 23:59 GMT
  • Move Kolorado's father to Richard (discuss) Deadline: December 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT
  • Move Mysterious Cloud to either Hat Cloud or Cap cloud (discuss) Deadline: December 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT
  • Split and trim the Vine article (discuss) Deadline: December 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)
Use the classic and classic-link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split articles for the alternate-named reskins from All Night Nippon: Super Mario Bros., Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 3, 2024)
Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)
Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)
Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)
Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)
Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)
^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Split Banana Peel from Banana, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2024)
Merge Spiked Thwomp with Thwomp, Blinker (ended November 2, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Expand and rename List of characters by game to List of characters by first appearance, Hewer (ended November 20, 2024)
Create articles for "Ashita ni Nattara" and "Banana Tengoku" or list them in List of Donkey Kong Country (television series) songs, Starluxe (ended November 23, 2024)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Create a template to crop images on-the-fly without having to tamper with the base file's dimensions

So Wildgoosespeeder (talk) shared this nifty template that TCRF has: tcrf:Template:CSS image crop, which allows images to be displayed in mainspace at a cut-out size from how they are on the image files themselves. This has two utilities: one is shrinking to a relevant entity in group textures such as this oneMedia:M&SatL2012OG Wii audience.png, and the other is to avoid blank space without having to crop the raw graphic parameters - thus allowing best-of-both-worlds for the previous proposal I attempted (and failed), as it satisfies the OCD itch of avoiding bad and/or inconsistent crops on the base files without taking up unnecessary space where the images are actually used. It also removes a lot of unnecessary work actually cropping/uncropping images since you don't have to save them to a machine/web address to upload a new version - you can just put in the parameters you want and go from there.

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
Deadline: December 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT

C-S-Yes

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Goes without saying I think this is a good idea.
  2. Super Mario RPG (talk) Sounds like a reasonable compromise.
  3. Jdtendo (talk) It's better to crop an existing image programmatically than having to upload a cropped version for a specific use case.
  4. Ahemtoday (talk) Per proposal.
  5. Pseudo (talk) Seems useful.
  6. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) Sometimes I just find random things on other Wikis and remember a previously failed proposal. I hope this helps out!
  7. EvieMaybe (talk) per Jdtendo! this seems very useful

No new template

Comments on CSS image crop

This appears to be similar to a template I have made in order to crop images to perfectly squared off icons for uses on pages such as Pipe Frame (e.g. displaying Mii Racing Suit icons in the same table as other character icons); however, the version you're presenting seems to include more options. I'm not gonna vote yet, but so far I don't see the harm to have this other template too. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 06:42, November 27, 2024 (EST)

Removals

Remove video game console generations

I would imagine most people who have discussed video games in the past have heard of video game console generations. It is a tool to categorize video game hardware and its place in time. There is just one problem: the current video game console generation system is flawed. If you would like to further read into the specifics as to why I would recommend this Time Extension article by Jack Yarwood. But in short, the phrase "next generation" originates as a term used starting around the 1990s, as video games evolved over the many years, Wikipedia editors would create their own video game console generation system that has for the most part remained unchanged since its introduction in the early 2000s. This generation system would slowly be adopted by other sites, media, and the people who engage with video games.

Within the scope of the major Nintendo video game consoles, this is currently how the video game console generation system is categorized.

First generation: Color TV-Game
Second generation: Game & Watch
Third generation: Family Computer, Nintendo Entertainment System
Fourth generation: Super Famicom, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, Game Boy
Fifth generation: Nintendo 64, Game Boy Color
Sixth generation: Nintendo GameCube, Game Boy Advance
Seventh generation: Wii, Nintendo DS
Eighth generation: Wii U, Nintendo 3DS, Nintendo Switch
Ninth generation: Nintendo Switch

There is one obvious problem that you might have noticed. The Nintendo Switch is in the eighth and ninth generation. This is due to when the Nintendo Switch first released: March 3, 2017. The current system begins the ninth generation in November 2020 with the release of the Xbox Series X/S and PlayStation 5 consoles. This is despite how for most of the lifespan of the Nintendo Switch, it has actually been competing against consoles that under this system is a whole generation ahead. Because of this, it is not entirely clear where the Nintendo Switch is in the video game console generation system and the solution is to simply file it in both generations rather than one or the other.

Now the Nintendo Switch is a hybrid console, but what about portable consoles? The current video game console generation system lumps in both home and portable consoles. If the goal of the generation system was to be based on hardware specifications than it ultimately falls flat with consoles such as the 16-bit Super Famicom and Super Nintendo Entertainment System home consoles being in the same generation as the 8-bit Game Boy portable console. For home consoles there is absolutely nothing in the second generation, with the Color TV-Game consoles being in the first and the Family Computer and Nintendo Entertainment System consoles being in the third. Portable consoles have a similar issue with nothing in the third generation, with the Game & Watch line in the second and the Game Boy being in the fourth.

For these reasons, I think it should be considered to remove video game console generations from this wiki. It is ultimately a flawed tool that originates as something made up by various Wikipedia editors that stuck around for far too long without real consideration of its flaws. If video game console generations are removed, we should gravitate towards more factual descriptions that better represent the consoles.

Home consoles: 1. Color TV-Game 2. Family Computer, Nintendo Entertainment System 3. Super Famicom, Super Nintendo Entertainment System 4. Nintendo 64 5. Nintendo GameCube, 6. Wii 7. Wii U 8. Nintendo Switch
Portable consoles: 1. Game & Watch 2. Game Boy 3. Game Boy Color 4. Game Boy Advance 5. Nintendo DS 6. Nintendo 3DS 7. Nintendo Switch

Home console example: "The Nintendo 64 is the fourth Nintendo home console platform."
Portable console example: "The Nintendo DS is the fifth Nintendo portable console platform."
Hybrid console example: "The Nintendo Switch is the seventh portable and eighth home Nintendo console platform."

This alternative system does have flaws with the Switch being in two categories again, however that is due to the Switch being a hybrid between a home and portable console. The reason the console is in two video game generations according to Wikipedia is not as clear. Another much straightforward solution would be to simply list the predecessor and successor of each console.

Example: "The predecessor to the Nintendo 64 is the Super Famicom and Super Nintendo Entertainment System and the successor is the Nintendo GameCube."

This is the most likely solution if video game console generations were removed. It is easy to understand and already implemented to an extent. The work required is simply the removal process with minimal addition.

Proposer: Bro3256 (talk)
Deadline: December 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Technetium (talk) Per proposal.
  2. EvieMaybe (talk) console generations make more sense when comparing against several different consoles. for our use case, they're pretty irrelevant.
  3. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per proposer and EvieMaybe.
  4. Bro3256 (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Regardless of contemporary awkwardness, it's still useful comparing the timelines for the ones of the past. I've still seen people not realize the GBC was in circulation around the same time of the N64 based on nothing but their respective bit-count.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) - This feels like a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". While we've always found the "console generations" thing really, really strange (as you can expect from a metric born from Wikipedia itself), we can't deny that it is still useful to a degree, and unlike, say, calling unused content "beta" content, the term "console generation" is still a term that sees active use in gaming circles, even if as of late Nintendo's side of it has gotten a bit desynced. In addition, as was pointed out in the comments, the Philips CD-i is noticeably absent, but in addition to that, so is the Virtual Boy, which is even more directly Nintendo related? Not that we'd particularly like this even if both of these were accounted for, mind...
  3. Ahemtoday (talk) Without the Virtual Boy in here, this numbering scheme just flat-out isn't actually true. As such, I can't support this proposal.
  4. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Perhaps a better idea is to use Cross-generation ({{wp|Eighth generation of video game consoles|eighth}}—{{wp|Ninth generation of video game consoles|ninth}}) on the Nintendo Switch page and use {{wp|[No.] generation of video game consoles|[No.] generation}} on pages on all other systems. As such, I'm opposing this proposal.

Comments

I disagree with the premise, since a tool that is helpful but flawed is still helpful. Moreover, we do cover a couple of devices that do not fit on a Nintendo-exclusive relative timeline, namely the Philips CD-i and the Triforce arcade boards. I guess "contemporary to the _____" works just as well, but there's a level of "semantics over broader public" thing that I'm a little iffy about if that kind of phrasing has to be used. Salmancer (talk) 13:51, November 29, 2024 (EST)


Where the HECK is the Virtual Boy in all of this? Nintendo's actual third portable console and part of the fourth generation (or fifth? It was supposed to keep customers occupied while waiting for the Nintendo 64), as it was released in 1995? ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 15:43, November 29, 2024 (EST)

I didn't include select consoles in this proposal since my arguments mainly focused on the major Nintendo consoles. That is not to say consoles like the Virtual Boy and non-Nintendo consoles like the Philips CD-i aren't important (they are!), but I wanted to prioritize the issues present with how the video game geration system currently works with the major Nintendo consoles since these alone already present issues with the system without the additions of what was omitted for the purposes of this proposal.
Regarding Triforce, that is a whole different category of hardware. Arcade hardware for the most part has never worked with this generation system since it was primarly designed with home and portable consoles in mind. How do you even slot in arcade hardware to begin with? Arcade games had a completely different evolution to their console counterparts and were usually cutting edge at the time before any console equivalents made it to market, and even if they did unlike consoles, arcade hardware differs depending on the game. How can you be sure what a certain arcade game is running on is in a certain generation? --Bro3256 (talk) 18:04, November 29, 2024 (EST)

@Doc von Schmeltwick: I don't really see how that's an argument against this proposal. We have the release dates listed for the consoles, and the Game Boy Color article's very first sentence describes it as "the handheld counterpart of the Nintendo 64". Why is it also necessary to call them "fifth generation"? I'd argue that it's probably the least clear way of showing the connection, because I can't imagine "fifth generation" means anything to someone who doesn't know about when those consoles released. Not to mention that being in the same "generation" doesn't necessarily mean they were being sold at the same time, as the Wii U and Switch demonstrate. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 17:30, November 29, 2024 (EST)

@Ahemtoday: Please read above the comment I made in regards to the absence of Virtual Boy. Keep and mind that I was presenting it as one possible solution if video game console generations were removed. That is not to say it should be the solution used hence why I provided another alternative one. If the first system was implemented into the wiki than I would imagine Virtual Boy being included. --Bro3256 (talk) 18:25, November 29, 2024 (EST)

Do we really discuss console generations extensively on the wiki? I do not know of any examples offhand. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:40, November 29, 2024 (EST)

The Family Computer and Nintendo Entertainment System articles are obvious examples but there's this article's trivia section as an example of non-console articles.--Bro3256 (talk) 00:08, November 30, 2024 (EST)

"There is one obvious problem that you might have noticed. The Nintendo Switch is in the eighth and ninth generation. This is due to when the Nintendo Switch first released: March 3, 2017. The current system begins the ninth generation in November 2020 with the release of the Xbox Series X/S and PlayStation 5 consoles. This is despite how for most of the lifespan of the Nintendo Switch, it has actually been competing against consoles that under this system is a whole generation ahead."

But then I have to question: what about the SG-1000 and the Mark III/Master System releasing just shy of a few years? I know it has a very time span compared to the Wii U and Switch, but if they are bundled under the third-generation, the Switch should also be this way for the eighth, right? -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 01:00, November 30, 2024 (EST)

There have been countless debates regarding the SG-1000 in particular due to it sharing nearly the exact same hardware as the ColecoVision yet both consoles are in different generations despite being released within one year apart. However this side of the console generations debate is not relevant to the scope of this wiki.--Bro3256 (talk) 01:20, November 30, 2024 (EST)

Changes

None at the moment.

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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