MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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{| align="center" style="width: 85%; background-color: #f1f1de; border: 2px solid #996; padding: 5px; color:black"
|'''Proposals''' can be new features (such as an extension), removal of a previously added feature that has tired out, or new policies that must be approved via [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] before any action(s) are done.
*Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!"
*"Vote" periods last for one week.
*All past proposals are [[/Archive|archived]].
|}
A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code <nowiki>{{user|</nowiki>''User name''<nowiki>}}</nowiki>. '''Signing with the signature code <nowiki>~~~(~)</nowiki> is not allowed''' due to technical issues.


<h2 style="color:black">How To</h2>
==Writing guidelines==
#Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
''None at the moment.''
#Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
##Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
##Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
##Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
#Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
#At any time a vote may be rejected if at least '''three''' active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
#"<nowiki>#&nbsp;</nowiki>" should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
#Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "[[Wikipedia:Quorum|NO QUORUM]]." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
#All proposals are archived. The original proposer must '''''take action''''' accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.


The times are in EDT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after school, weekend nights).
==New features==
===Create a template to crop images on-the-fly without having to tamper with the base file's dimensions===
So {{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} shared this nifty template that TCRF has: [[tcrf:Template:CSS image crop]], which allows images to be displayed in mainspace at a cut-out size from how they are on the image files themselves. This has two utilities: one is shrinking to a relevant entity in group textures such as {{file link|M&SatL2012OG Wii audience.png|this one}}, and the other is to avoid blank space without having to crop the raw graphic parameters - thus allowing best-of-both-worlds for the previous proposal I attempted (and failed), as it satisfies the OCD itch of avoiding bad and/or inconsistent crops on the base files without taking up unnecessary space where the images are actually used. It also removes a lot of unnecessary work actually cropping/uncropping images since you don't have to save them to a machine/web address to upload a new version - you can just put in the parameters you want and go from there.


So for example, if a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is indeed a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT


Also,
====C-S-Yes====
<br><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:30px;line-height:30px;font-weight:900;">NO PROPOSALS ABOUT HAVING BANJO AND CONKER ARTICLES</span> -The Management.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Goes without saying I think this is a good idea.
#{{user|Super Mario RPG}} Sounds like a reasonable compromise.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} It's better to crop an existing image programmatically than having to upload a cropped version for a specific use case.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Seems useful.
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} Sometimes I just find random things on other Wikis and remember a previously failed proposal. I hope this helps out!
#{{user|EvieMaybe}} per Jdtendo! this seems very useful


__TOC__
====No new template====


<center><span style="font-size:200%">CURRENTLY: '''{{LOCALTIME}}, {{LOCALDAY}} {{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALYEAR}} (EDT)'''</span></center>
====Comments on CSS image crop====
 
This appears to be similar to [[Template:Squared icon|a template I have made]] in order to crop images to perfectly squared off icons for uses on pages such as [[Pipe Frame]] (e.g. displaying Mii Racing Suit icons in the same table as other character icons); however, the version you're presenting seems to include more options. I'm not gonna vote yet, but so far I don't see the harm to have this other template too. {{User:Arend/sig}} 06:42, November 27, 2024 (EST)
==New Features==
''None at the moment.


==Removals==
==Removals==
''None at the moment.
===Remove video game console generations===
 
I would imagine most people who have discussed video games in the past have heard of {{wp|History of video_game consoles#Console generations|video game console generations}}. It is a tool to categorize video game hardware and its place in time. There is just one problem: the current video game console generation system is flawed. If you would like to further read into the specifics as to why I would recommend this [https://www.timeextension.com/features/is-wikipedia-really-to-blame-for-video-game-console-generations Time Extension article] by Jack Yarwood. But in short, the phrase "next generation" originates as a term used starting around the 1990s, as video games evolved over the many years, Wikipedia editors would create their own video game console generation system that has for the most part remained unchanged since its introduction in the early 2000s. This generation system would slowly be adopted by other sites, media, and the people who engage with video games.
==Splits & Merges==
===Repeated Info, Pointless Pages?===
 
If you look at the [[Final Smash]] page, you'll see that each one is listed in a table, along with a fairly large amount of info about it. Each one has a link to the page that is specifically about that particular Final Smash (e.g. the Aura Storm has its own page, etc). I've read these individual separate pages, and their info is practically the same as what it says on the main Final Smash page. So, are these small pages kind of pointless? In fact, some of the descriptions on the FS page are more detailed than on the page they link to, as they contain info about damage percentages and stuff.
 
I think either one of these options should be considered: We either remove all the individual FS pages (as in [[End of Day]], [[Mario Finale]], etc) and make the info in the table of Final Smash page more detailed...
 
OR we only include very small amounts of info on the main Final Smash page, so that it's actually worth having the linked pages.
 
'''Proposer''': [[User:Dom|Dom]]
 
'''Deadline''': July 13, 2008, 15:00
 
====Support====
#{{User|Dom}} - I'm thinking my second option is the better one, after reading Pokemon DP's comment. In other words, I'm kind of supporting myself.
#{{User|Freekhenstra}} - See my comment
#{{User|MegaMario9910}} - Per Dom and Freekhenstra
#{{User|Pikax}} - Per Freekhenstra
#{{User|Tucayo}} - I support the idea of erasing the individula pages, it's better to have them in a unique, more complete page
#{{User|Glitchman}} - See my comment below.
#{{User|ItameMarioFan}} - Yes. The pages have the same description as on the [[Final Smash]] page. Only thing new is the throphies. Per Dom and Glitchman (comment below).
#{{user|Luigi001}} Per Dom and Pokemon DP. Expanding the individual pages would make much more sense than getting rid of them all.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - I guess something's better than nothing.
#{{user|Toadette 4evur}} Per DP.
#{{user|Yowuza}} Yeah, this isn't the SmashWiki, this is the Super Mario Wiki.
#{{user|Sonic64}} Per DP
#{{User|Luigi3000}}Per 4Evar
 
====Oppose====
 


====Comments====
Within the scope of the major [[Nintendo]] video game consoles, this is currently how the video game console generation system is categorized.
If the moves have articles, Final Smashes should have them too. The Final Smash article has too many details, Aura Storm for example. It can be shortened to just: "Lucario jumps high above the stage, then fires a beam of Aura, that the player can guide across the stage to devastate his opponents". The Final Smash article should have descriptions like that, while the article of the Final Smash itself could have the details. {{User|Freekhenstra}}
:That sounds good in theory, but I'm going to respectfully disagree. While the idea of getting rid of information on the main page to make all of the pages incomplete would definitely lead to more proposals down the road, I do agree that we should get rid of all the off-shoot pages and have all of the final smashes on one big, complete page. Each of the final smashes would just have to redirect to that page. {{User|Glitchman}}


Uhh, I don't get what the proposal is saying, what are we supporting? I'm confused. {{User|Toadette 4evur}}
First generation: [[Color TV-Game]]<br>
:Same, it's not really clear whether we're deleting the list or the articles, as it is now, "Support" is just saying we do ''something''. Anyway, I support Glitchman's idea, for all the reasons listed above as well as the fact that the Final Smash articles could be turned into redirects, wheras the list would be harder to deal with. However, if memory serves, a similar proposal was shot down a couple months/weeks ago, on the basis of Freekhanstr'a point that moves have articles too, and they're more minor than FSs. I say the moves ''and'' the Final Smashes should be nixed, though sadly I don't think that will fly. - {{User|Walkazo}}
Second generation: [[Game & Watch]]<br>
Third generation: [[Family Computer]], [[Nintendo Entertainment System]]<br>
Fourth generation: [[Super Famicom]], [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]], [[Game Boy]]<br>
Fifth generation: [[Nintendo 64]], [[Game Boy Color]]<br>
Sixth generation: [[Nintendo GameCube]], [[Game Boy Advance]]<br>
Seventh generation: [[Wii]], [[Nintendo DS]]<br>
Eighth generation: [[Wii U]], [[Nintendo 3DS]], [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>
Ninth generation: [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>


I actually have to say, asking for all the respective pages to be deleted was the dumbest thing I ever heard. If we do that, we might as well delete all the special move articles, which would be of less importance than the Final Smashes. Regardless, I agree that the information on the Final Smash article is overboard. But do not touch the individual articles; ONLY the Final Smash article. {{User|Pokemon DP}}
There is one obvious problem that you might have noticed. The Nintendo Switch is in the eighth and ninth generation. This is due to when the Nintendo Switch first released: March 3, 2017. The current system begins the ninth generation in November 2020 with the release of the {{wp|Xbox Series X and Series S|Xbox Series X/S}} and {{wp|PlayStation 5}} consoles. This is despite how for most of the lifespan of the Nintendo Switch, it has actually been competing against consoles that under this system is a whole generation ahead. Because of this, it is not entirely clear where the Nintendo Switch is in the video game console generation system and the solution is to simply file it in both generations rather than one or the other.


'''Note to Toadette 4evur:''' I guess the support means that you agree that some information should be moved/merged to or from the main FS page and the individual pages. That sounds a bit vague, I know. {{User|Dom}}
Now the Nintendo Switch is a hybrid console, but what about portable consoles? The current video game console generation system lumps in both home and portable consoles. If the goal of the generation system was to be based on hardware specifications than it ultimately falls flat with consoles such as the 16-bit [[Super Famicom]] and [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]] home consoles being in the same generation as the 8-bit [[Game Boy]] portable console. For home consoles there is absolutely nothing in the second generation, with the [[Color TV-Game]] consoles being in the first and the [[Family Computer]] and [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] consoles being in the third. Portable consoles have a similar issue with nothing in the third generation, with the [[Game & Watch]] line in the second and the [[Game Boy]] being in the fourth.


'''Note to Pokemon DP:''' I hope you weren't calling ''me'' dumb...  I'll admit it would be a bit harsh to delete all those articles, but that's why I mentioned 2 options. And I'm leaning towards the second one, the one you agreed was more appropriate. {{User|Dom}}
For these reasons, I think it should be considered to remove video game console generations from this wiki. It is ultimately a flawed tool that originates as something made up by various Wikipedia editors that stuck around for far too long without real consideration of its flaws. If video game console generations are removed, we should gravitate towards more factual descriptions that better represent the consoles.


But even considering to delete those articles as an option wasn't very wise... Well, whatever. I'm still all for shortening the (supposedly) brief descriptions on the Final Smash article. {{User|Pokemon DP}}
Home consoles: 1. [[Color TV-Game]] 2. [[Family Computer]], [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] 3. [[Super Famicom]], [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]] 4. [[Nintendo 64]] 5. [[Nintendo GameCube]], 6. [[Wii]] 7. [[Wii U]] 8. [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>
:What option do you vote for when supporting? I am for individual articles and less information on the Final Smash page. - {{User|Cobold}} 10:41, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
Portable consoles: 1. [[Game & Watch]] 2. [[Game Boy]] 3. [[Game Boy Color]] 4. [[Game Boy Advance]] 5. [[Nintendo DS]] 6. [[Nintendo 3DS]] 7. [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>


'''Note to Cobold:''' - Since my comments to 2 other users, I guess I've kind of confirmed that the Support means what you agreed to - less info on Final Smash page. {{User|Dom}}
Home console example: "The [[Nintendo 64]] is the fourth [[Nintendo]] home console platform."<br>
Portable console example: "The [[Nintendo DS]] is the fifth [[Nintendo]] portable console platform."<br>
Hybrid console example: "The [[Nintendo Switch]] is the seventh portable and eighth home [[Nintendo]] console platform."<br>


===Paper Luigi===
This alternative system does have flaws with the Switch being in two categories again, however that is due to the Switch being a hybrid between a home and portable console. The reason the console is in two video game generations according to Wikipedia is not as clear. Another much straightforward solution would be to simply list the predecessor and successor of each console.


It is pretty hard to find all of the data from luigi's quest from The thousand year door, on this wiki. So I propose that we merge all the articles that have to do with luigi's quest in the waffle kingdom, into one single article. that way, if someone needs to look it up, they can easily find it.
Example: "The predecessor to the [[Nintendo 64]] is the [[Super Famicom]] and [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]] and the successor is the [[Nintendo GameCube]]."
(I know that this is a pretty short proposal)


'''Proposer''': [[User:Dryest bowser|Dryest bowser]]
This is the most likely solution if video game console generations were removed. It is easy to understand and already implemented to an extent. The work required is simply the removal process with minimal addition.


'''Deadline''': July 17, 2008, 17:00
'''Proposer''': {{User|Bro3256}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
====Support====
#[[User:Dryest bowser|Dryest bowser]]- per myself
#{{User|Technetium}} Per proposal.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} console generations make more sense when comparing against several different consoles. for our use case, they're pretty irrelevant.


====Oppose====
====Oppose====
#{{User|Walkazo}} - See below.
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - Regardless of contemporary awkwardness, it's still useful comparing the timelines for the ones of the past. I've ''still'' seen people not realize the GBC was in circulation around the same time of the N64 based on nothing but their respective bit-count.
#{{User|Pokemon DP}} - I couldn't - And still cannot - make any sense out of what Dryest Bowser hopes to accomplish. So... Per Walkazo.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} - This feels like a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". While we've always found the "console generations" thing really, really strange (as you can expect from a metric born from ''Wikipedia itself''), we can't deny that it is still useful to a degree, and unlike, say, calling unused content "beta" content, the term "console generation" is still a term that sees active use in gaming circles, even if as of late Nintendo's side of it has gotten a bit desynced. In addition, as was pointed out in the comments, the [[Philips CD-i]] is noticeably absent, but in addition to that, so is the [[Virtual Boy]], which is even more directly Nintendo related? Not that we'd particularly like this even if both of these were accounted for, mind...


====Comments====
====Comments====
I don't get this Proposal at all. {{User|Pokemon DP}}
I disagree with the premise, since a tool that is helpful but flawed is still helpful. Moreover, we do cover a couple of devices that do not fit on a Nintendo-exclusive relative timeline, namely the [[Philips CD-i]] and the [[Triforce]] arcade boards. I guess "contemporary to the _____" works just as well, but there's a level of "semantics over broader public" thing that I'm a little iffy about if that kind of phrasing has to be used. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 13:51, November 29, 2024 (EST)


Neither do I. I dont think weshould do it cus it is fine as is.{{User|Luigi3000}}
==Changes==
 
===Tag images of bind-posing models for reuploading===
{{User|Dryest bowser}} I just want to make a single article for luigi's story in paper mario the thousand year door. it will make the wiki more organized. and we can stop having extremly short articless for all of the ccharacters and places
It's been two years since [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/69#Do not use t-posing models as infobox images|the previous proposal]] had passed. Now let's talk about tagging images of bind-posing models for reuploading. Take [https://www.models-resource.com/resources/big_icons/4/3950.png?updated=1673644745 this image] for example. As you can see, this image is a bind-posing model. Once this proposal passes, we'll be able to tag every bind-posing model with this:
:As in [[Super Luigi Series|this]]? If not, kindly provide a link to the pages you '''are''' talking about. - {{User|Walkazo}}


{{User|Dryest bowser}} I mean articles like [[jerry]],[[Hizza]] and [[torque]]. these articles are kind of minor,and It would be easier to merge them
{{tem|image-quality|Bind-posing model; should be replaced with a rendered game model}}
:They're characters, and all characters get their own articles unless they're carbon copies of each other like the [[Board (Super Mario Galaxy)|Board]]s, or if they're always found together and do nothing significant individually, like [[Ashley and Red]] and [[Kat and Ana]]. The only one you can argue over is Hizza, since his article's a stub; and because he wasn't encountered by the player, meaning he could be considered an implied character and can therefore be relegated to the [[List of Implied Characters]], or converted into a redirect to [[Plumpbelly Village]]. However, neither of those options is what you want for this proposal; what you're asking just isn't feasible, sorry. - {{User|Walkazo}}


[[user:Dryest bowser|Dryest bowser]]- ok, that's ok, let's do that, all the characters like hizza,crepe, and even princess eclair should be merged with the implied characters
That way, if a bind-posing model is reuploaded as a rendered game model that serves as a replacement, we'll be able to reuse it as an infobox image.


==Changes==
'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBayBeee}}<br>
===Fire and Ice Templates===
'''Deadline''': November 29, 2024, 23:59 GMT
As I said on the [[Template_talk:Fire|Fire talk page]], too many things use fire (or ice) for these templates to be practical. Instead, I propose we alter these templates so that they only include things made of, or irrefutably linked to fire/ice. This is a better design because readers could then research creatures of fire or ice with as much ease as if they were using the [[Template:Birds|Bird]] or [[Template:Fish|Fish]] Templates to research those kinds of beings, instead of getting bogged down with species that only use fire or ice. For example, if someone wants to research Birds, anything else in the Bird Template that flies but isn't a bird would slow them down; however a misfile like this would be obvious as a bird is a clearly defined animal, while what can be considered appropriately placed under "Fire" and "Ice" is much more subjective. As such, I'm open to suggestions on what should or shouldn't be removed, my first attempt (complete with justifications for my choices) can be seen alongside the original templates [[User:Walkazo/Templates|here]]; as are newer split-template versions of Fire and Ice suggested by [[User:Soler|Soler]] below, which are now the designs I plan to put into effect if this proposal passes.
 
'''Proposer''':[[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]]
 
'''Deadline''': July 9, 2008, 17:00


====Support====
====Support====
#{{User|Walkazo}} - My reasons above.
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Per proposal
#{{User|Pikax}} - I have seen what Walkazo plans to separate from the templates and why she wants to separate those things, and I have no objections to her plan.
<s>#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Like I said in the other proposal, T-poses are generally not how characters are supposed to look. If [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/70#Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots|this]] is any indication, the wiki should favor game accuracy in images.</s>
#{{User|Dryest bowser}}-per all
#{{User|The Writing Guy}} - Per Walkazo.
#{{user|ParaBob-omb}}- Per all.
#{{User|Dom}} - Per the above users who are crushing my writing here with their heavy words. I say Soler's comment below which includes his 2 split templates is a perfect solution, that should be used instead of what currently exists.
#{{User|MegaMario9910}} - Per Walkazo and Soler's comment.
#{{User|Mrsdaisyluigi}} - Per all
# {{User|Tucayo}} - Per Walkazo. They should be separated, its OK for characters like [[bowser]] to be removed, because the fact they spit fire doesnt make him a fire creature.
# {{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per Walkazo, the Proposal-Genius. 23:18, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
#{{User|Soler}}: per all.
#{{User|Pokemon DP}} Per Walkazo.


====Oppose====
====Oppose====
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I think it is great when users replace images of bind-posed (or "t-posed") models with organically rendered ones. It is a practice I personally encourage and welcome. However, I do think there [[:File:PiantissimoUnmasked.png|can be educational and illustrative purposes to bind-posed models]], and I think a blanket rule would put unnecessary pressure on the users of this site to render models when a bind-posed one can be more than serviceable, and may even discourage the cataloging of 3D assets in the future if a user cannot render them. Rendering models is a very time-consuming process, and I think it is healthier to just allow users to replace the bind-posed images we have ''if'' they can. Not require them to. Perfection is the enemy of the good.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} this seems better handled on a case-by-case basis rather than a full sweep
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all, a hard rule isn't necessary here.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per all.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all, especially Nintendo101. Given there ''are'' scenarios where bind-posed/T-posed models are actually more illustrative than properly rigged alternatives, we should probably handle these on a case-by-case basis.
#{{User|Mario}} Tag them if they're bad quality, not because they're t-posed.


====Comments====
====Comments====
Wording should be changed to "bind pose" since not all characters are T-posed, especially non-bipeds ([https://www.models-resource.com/resources/big_icons/4/3950.png?updated=1673644745 like Yoshi from Super Smash Bros. Melee or Brawl], Wiggler, Buzzy Beetles, Piranha Plants, and more) and A-pose exists as a default pose too. In addition, models technically aren't "t-posing", they're modeled this way before animations and a rig are applied to them, the wording makes them look like they're animating when they're not. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 20:36, November 15, 2024 (EST)


How about something like this for the Fire template, and something similar for the Ice? I tried to simulate Walkazo's formatting as best as I could: feel free to fix the formatting. I feel that this would serve both people with Walkazo's view of the term and those with a broader view of it. If the show/hide feature is unnecessary, please remove it. Another option would be to split the templates in two. —{{User|Soler}}. (I am going on holidays on Sunday, so please excuse me if I do not reply to your unrelenting criticism...)   
Does this proposal advocate replacing these ripped models with ones that are posed from a screenshot or posed in a 3d program with ripped animation files? Not all models are ripped with animations, so it's a bit of a task to undertake if you really want models with animations AND a rig (let's not get started in lighting, which is a separate skillset that's demanded from renderers; not many people get the lighting very good, no offense!); a chunk of models tend to not have a rig, much less an animation. Additionally, some t-posed models are great to use when comparing models or viewing models ''as they are''. [[:File:MLNPC.png]] is an example where it's easy to compare the proportions of Mario, PC Luigi, and NPC Luigi. Sure, you can probably put them all in a orthographic lineup in the same keyframe of a shared animation, but due to the arms, legs, spine, and head all straightened out, it's better to illustrate in T-pose imo. {{User:Mario/sig}} 21:00, November 15, 2024 (EST)
 
 
{| align="center" width=100% class="toccolours" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2"
|-
| align=center bgcolor=orange style="border: 1px solid white"|<div style="background:#orange; text-align=center;">'''Fire Creatures'''<showhide><small>__HIDER__</small><hide><div>
{| width=100%
| align="center" style="font-size: smaller; background:ghostwhite" | [[Angry Sun]] | [[Blargg]] | [[Bomb (species)|Bomb]] | [[Burn Bit]] | [[Czar Dragon]] | [[Ember]] | [[Fiery Bubble]] | [[Fire Chomp]] | [[Fire Elemental Ghost]] | [[Fire Snake]] | [[Fireball (enemy)|Fireball]] | [[Fryguy]] | [[Fryguy (species)|Fryguys]] | [[Helio]] | [[Hot Foot]] | [[Hot Lips]] | [[Hothead]] | [[Kleever]] | [[Lava Bubble]] | [[Lava Bud]] | [[Lava Drop]] | [[Lava Ghost]] | [[Lava Piranha]] | [[Li'l Sparky]] | [[Mini Fryguy]] | [[Petit Piranha]] | [[Phantom Ember]] | [[Podoboo]] | [[Pyro Guy]] | [[Pyrosphere]] | [[Sparky]] | [[Sun (character)|Sun]] | [[Torcher]] | [[Trouble Bug]]
|}</div></hide></showhide></div>
|-
| align=center bgcolor=orange style="border: 1px solid white"|<div style="background:orange; text-align=center; color:black">'''Fire-Related Creatures'''<showhide><small>__HIDER__</small><hide><div>
{|
| align="center" style="font-size: smaller; background:ghostwhite" | [[Baby Bowser]] | [[Birdo]] | [[Bowser]] | [[Bowser Jr.]] | [[Calm Volcano Plant]] | [[Dhalsim]] | [[Dino-Torch]] | [[Fire Bro.]] | [[Flare]] | [[Gao]] | [[Iggy Koopa]] | [[Jumping Piranha Plant]] | [[King Totomesu]] | [[Lava Lotus]] | [[Ludwig von Koopa]] | [[Sumo Bro.]] |  [[Tryclyde]] | [[Venus Fire Trap]] | [[Vivian]] | [[Volcano Lotus]] | [[Zeus Guy (Bandit)]] | [[Zeus Guy (Snifit)]]
|}</div></hide></showhide></div>
|}
 
{{User|Dom}} - Hey, the User called ''Soler'' made these templates about fire! Get it? Solar...fire? Ha ha...........???
 
On a serious note: Soler's split templates are a brilliant idea, better than the all-in-one oversized template.
:Yeah, I definately like that idea, too!  Awesome work, Soler! {{User|Stumpers}}
::Oh, thanks! Does anyone think that two Ice and two Fire templates would be better than the above idea of a "double template"? (I myself think that the double one would be easier for navigation.) —{{User|Soler}}.
:::I prefer the double one, and I've taken your example and refined new split-templates for both Fire and Ice which I've put up [[User:Walkazo/Templates|here]] with the earlier versions. As I said in the added last line of the Proposal, I'd rather go with them than my earler attempts. Nice going! - {{User|Walkazo}}


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
''None at the moment.
''None at the moment.''

Latest revision as of 14:23, November 29, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Friday, November 29th, 19:30 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  2. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  3. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  8. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  9. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  12. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  13. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  14. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  15. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  16. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  17. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  18. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  19. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  20. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 14 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "November 29, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

  • Determine how to handle the Tattle Log images from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) (discuss) Deadline: November 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT
  • Merge False Character and the Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams to List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses (discuss) Deadline: December 2, 2024, 23:59 GMT
  • Move Kolorado's father to Richard (discuss) Deadline: December 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)
Use the classic and classic-link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split articles for the alternate-named reskins from All Night Nippon: Super Mario Bros., Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 3, 2024)
Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)
Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)
Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)
Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)
Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)
^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Split Banana Peel from Banana, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2024)
Merge Spiked Thwomp with Thwomp, Blinker (ended November 2, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Expand and rename List of characters by game to List of characters by first appearance, Hewer (ended November 20, 2024)
Create articles for "Ashita ni Nattara" and "Banana Tengoku" or list them in List of Donkey Kong Country (television series) songs, Starluxe (ended November 23, 2024)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Create a template to crop images on-the-fly without having to tamper with the base file's dimensions

So Wildgoosespeeder (talk) shared this nifty template that TCRF has: tcrf:Template:CSS image crop, which allows images to be displayed in mainspace at a cut-out size from how they are on the image files themselves. This has two utilities: one is shrinking to a relevant entity in group textures such as this oneMedia:M&SatL2012OG Wii audience.png, and the other is to avoid blank space without having to crop the raw graphic parameters - thus allowing best-of-both-worlds for the previous proposal I attempted (and failed), as it satisfies the OCD itch of avoiding bad and/or inconsistent crops on the base files without taking up unnecessary space where the images are actually used. It also removes a lot of unnecessary work actually cropping/uncropping images since you don't have to save them to a machine/web address to upload a new version - you can just put in the parameters you want and go from there.

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
Deadline: December 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT

C-S-Yes

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Goes without saying I think this is a good idea.
  2. Super Mario RPG (talk) Sounds like a reasonable compromise.
  3. Jdtendo (talk) It's better to crop an existing image programmatically than having to upload a cropped version for a specific use case.
  4. Ahemtoday (talk) Per proposal.
  5. Pseudo (talk) Seems useful.
  6. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) Sometimes I just find random things on other Wikis and remember a previously failed proposal. I hope this helps out!
  7. EvieMaybe (talk) per Jdtendo! this seems very useful

No new template

Comments on CSS image crop

This appears to be similar to a template I have made in order to crop images to perfectly squared off icons for uses on pages such as Pipe Frame (e.g. displaying Mii Racing Suit icons in the same table as other character icons); however, the version you're presenting seems to include more options. I'm not gonna vote yet, but so far I don't see the harm to have this other template too. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 06:42, November 27, 2024 (EST)

Removals

Remove video game console generations

I would imagine most people who have discussed video games in the past have heard of video game console generations. It is a tool to categorize video game hardware and its place in time. There is just one problem: the current video game console generation system is flawed. If you would like to further read into the specifics as to why I would recommend this Time Extension article by Jack Yarwood. But in short, the phrase "next generation" originates as a term used starting around the 1990s, as video games evolved over the many years, Wikipedia editors would create their own video game console generation system that has for the most part remained unchanged since its introduction in the early 2000s. This generation system would slowly be adopted by other sites, media, and the people who engage with video games.

Within the scope of the major Nintendo video game consoles, this is currently how the video game console generation system is categorized.

First generation: Color TV-Game
Second generation: Game & Watch
Third generation: Family Computer, Nintendo Entertainment System
Fourth generation: Super Famicom, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, Game Boy
Fifth generation: Nintendo 64, Game Boy Color
Sixth generation: Nintendo GameCube, Game Boy Advance
Seventh generation: Wii, Nintendo DS
Eighth generation: Wii U, Nintendo 3DS, Nintendo Switch
Ninth generation: Nintendo Switch

There is one obvious problem that you might have noticed. The Nintendo Switch is in the eighth and ninth generation. This is due to when the Nintendo Switch first released: March 3, 2017. The current system begins the ninth generation in November 2020 with the release of the Xbox Series X/S and PlayStation 5 consoles. This is despite how for most of the lifespan of the Nintendo Switch, it has actually been competing against consoles that under this system is a whole generation ahead. Because of this, it is not entirely clear where the Nintendo Switch is in the video game console generation system and the solution is to simply file it in both generations rather than one or the other.

Now the Nintendo Switch is a hybrid console, but what about portable consoles? The current video game console generation system lumps in both home and portable consoles. If the goal of the generation system was to be based on hardware specifications than it ultimately falls flat with consoles such as the 16-bit Super Famicom and Super Nintendo Entertainment System home consoles being in the same generation as the 8-bit Game Boy portable console. For home consoles there is absolutely nothing in the second generation, with the Color TV-Game consoles being in the first and the Family Computer and Nintendo Entertainment System consoles being in the third. Portable consoles have a similar issue with nothing in the third generation, with the Game & Watch line in the second and the Game Boy being in the fourth.

For these reasons, I think it should be considered to remove video game console generations from this wiki. It is ultimately a flawed tool that originates as something made up by various Wikipedia editors that stuck around for far too long without real consideration of its flaws. If video game console generations are removed, we should gravitate towards more factual descriptions that better represent the consoles.

Home consoles: 1. Color TV-Game 2. Family Computer, Nintendo Entertainment System 3. Super Famicom, Super Nintendo Entertainment System 4. Nintendo 64 5. Nintendo GameCube, 6. Wii 7. Wii U 8. Nintendo Switch
Portable consoles: 1. Game & Watch 2. Game Boy 3. Game Boy Color 4. Game Boy Advance 5. Nintendo DS 6. Nintendo 3DS 7. Nintendo Switch

Home console example: "The Nintendo 64 is the fourth Nintendo home console platform."
Portable console example: "The Nintendo DS is the fifth Nintendo portable console platform."
Hybrid console example: "The Nintendo Switch is the seventh portable and eighth home Nintendo console platform."

This alternative system does have flaws with the Switch being in two categories again, however that is due to the Switch being a hybrid between a home and portable console. The reason the console is in two video game generations according to Wikipedia is not as clear. Another much straightforward solution would be to simply list the predecessor and successor of each console.

Example: "The predecessor to the Nintendo 64 is the Super Famicom and Super Nintendo Entertainment System and the successor is the Nintendo GameCube."

This is the most likely solution if video game console generations were removed. It is easy to understand and already implemented to an extent. The work required is simply the removal process with minimal addition.

Proposer: Bro3256 (talk)
Deadline: December 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Technetium (talk) Per proposal.
  2. EvieMaybe (talk) console generations make more sense when comparing against several different consoles. for our use case, they're pretty irrelevant.

Oppose

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Regardless of contemporary awkwardness, it's still useful comparing the timelines for the ones of the past. I've still seen people not realize the GBC was in circulation around the same time of the N64 based on nothing but their respective bit-count.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) - This feels like a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". While we've always found the "console generations" thing really, really strange (as you can expect from a metric born from Wikipedia itself), we can't deny that it is still useful to a degree, and unlike, say, calling unused content "beta" content, the term "console generation" is still a term that sees active use in gaming circles, even if as of late Nintendo's side of it has gotten a bit desynced. In addition, as was pointed out in the comments, the Philips CD-i is noticeably absent, but in addition to that, so is the Virtual Boy, which is even more directly Nintendo related? Not that we'd particularly like this even if both of these were accounted for, mind...

Comments

I disagree with the premise, since a tool that is helpful but flawed is still helpful. Moreover, we do cover a couple of devices that do not fit on a Nintendo-exclusive relative timeline, namely the Philips CD-i and the Triforce arcade boards. I guess "contemporary to the _____" works just as well, but there's a level of "semantics over broader public" thing that I'm a little iffy about if that kind of phrasing has to be used. Salmancer (talk) 13:51, November 29, 2024 (EST)

Changes

Tag images of bind-posing models for reuploading

It's been two years since the previous proposal had passed. Now let's talk about tagging images of bind-posing models for reuploading. Take this image for example. As you can see, this image is a bind-posing model. Once this proposal passes, we'll be able to tag every bind-posing model with this:

{{image-quality|Bind-posing model; should be replaced with a rendered game model}}

That way, if a bind-posing model is reuploaded as a rendered game model that serves as a replacement, we'll be able to reuse it as an infobox image.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: November 29, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal

#ThePowerPlayer (talk) Like I said in the other proposal, T-poses are generally not how characters are supposed to look. If this is any indication, the wiki should favor game accuracy in images.

Oppose

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) I think it is great when users replace images of bind-posed (or "t-posed") models with organically rendered ones. It is a practice I personally encourage and welcome. However, I do think there can be educational and illustrative purposes to bind-posed models, and I think a blanket rule would put unnecessary pressure on the users of this site to render models when a bind-posed one can be more than serviceable, and may even discourage the cataloging of 3D assets in the future if a user cannot render them. Rendering models is a very time-consuming process, and I think it is healthier to just allow users to replace the bind-posed images we have if they can. Not require them to. Perfection is the enemy of the good.
  2. EvieMaybe (talk) this seems better handled on a case-by-case basis rather than a full sweep
  3. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  4. Hewer (talk) Per all, a hard rule isn't necessary here.
  5. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per all.
  6. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, especially Nintendo101. Given there are scenarios where bind-posed/T-posed models are actually more illustrative than properly rigged alternatives, we should probably handle these on a case-by-case basis.
  7. Mario (talk) Tag them if they're bad quality, not because they're t-posed.

Comments

Wording should be changed to "bind pose" since not all characters are T-posed, especially non-bipeds (like Yoshi from Super Smash Bros. Melee or Brawl, Wiggler, Buzzy Beetles, Piranha Plants, and more) and A-pose exists as a default pose too. In addition, models technically aren't "t-posing", they're modeled this way before animations and a rig are applied to them, the wording makes them look like they're animating when they're not. BabyLuigiFire.pngRay Trace(T|C) 20:36, November 15, 2024 (EST)

Does this proposal advocate replacing these ripped models with ones that are posed from a screenshot or posed in a 3d program with ripped animation files? Not all models are ripped with animations, so it's a bit of a task to undertake if you really want models with animations AND a rig (let's not get started in lighting, which is a separate skillset that's demanded from renderers; not many people get the lighting very good, no offense!); a chunk of models tend to not have a rig, much less an animation. Additionally, some t-posed models are great to use when comparing models or viewing models as they are. File:MLNPC.png is an example where it's easy to compare the proportions of Mario, PC Luigi, and NPC Luigi. Sure, you can probably put them all in a orthographic lineup in the same keyframe of a shared animation, but due to the arms, legs, spine, and head all straightened out, it's better to illustrate in T-pose imo. Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 21:00, November 15, 2024 (EST)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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