User:Archivist Toadette/Draft proposals: Difference between revisions

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==Split Frog and cut down on its genericness, take 2==
===Completely do away with console abbreviations in titles for ''Mario Kart'' course articles===
Yes, I see the proposal directly above this one, but both the proposal and the opposition itself was flawed compared to what I'm about to propose. Essentially, what I'm proposing is that we split the Frog article by game (except the ''[[Diddy Kong Racing]]'' info; that can be covered in the [[Drumstick (character)]] article), as we already do the same for [[Beetle]] and [[Mole]]. Let me break it down for you:
Policy right now dictates that console abbreviations be used for every single title in ''Mario Kart'' course articles that have made at least one "classic" appearence. While I fully understand the logic behind said policy, I don't see how this would work in the long term. In fact, I would even say that it's '''counterintuitive''' to MarioWiki's goals, and here's why:
*'''''[[Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]]''''': These frogs are clearly sapient, and don't behave as the other non-generic frogs do. You can also actually interact with them.
#'''It looks ugly and hurts our professionalism.''' Just think about it for a bit. Those console abbreviations are just Nintendo's way of disambiguating which game each course originates from, and "the game company itself does it" is not a valid enough reason for us to bend backwards in this way.
*'''''[[Diddy Kong Racing]]''''': These frogs serve little purpose other than one that turns out to be a cursed [[Drumstick (character)|Drumstick]], so I think we should just delete this section as being too generic.
#'''It's blatantly inconsistent.''' Barring the supposed "logic" used, how come none of the other pre-''Mario Kart 8'' courses have console abbreviations in their titles? I'd half expect, say, the ''[[Mario Kart DS]]'' variant of Rainbow Road to be titled under "DS Rainbow Road".
*'''''[[Yoshi's Story]]''''': These frogs are actual enemies that attack the targeted Yoshi.
#'''It hurts navigation.''' Let's say a random reader familiar only with ''[[Mario Kart Wii]]'' wanted to search for [[Maple Treeway]] and started with "maple". There are plenty of articles whose names start with "Maple", but Maple Treeway is nowhere to be found due to the system rarely prioritizing redirects. No, the reader would have to type out almost the full title to get the actual redirect. I even tried searching a few other titles from, but they're all shoved at the bottom of the search below articles on subjects that are far less well known. And keep in mind, Maple Treeway isn't the only title with this kind of problem.
*'''''[[Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon]]''''': Unlike ''Yoshi's Story''{{'}}s frogs, these frogs are red and yellow in color, and can be defeated with the [[Strobulb]].
#'''Not even the Nintendo developers themselves use the system properly.''' I mean, just look at the [[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe – Booster Course Pass|Booster Course Pass]] and how they handle [[Ninja Hideaway]] and [[Sky-High Sundae]]. You'd expect them to be known as "Tour Ninja Hideaway" and "Tour Sky-High Sundae", but nothing even remotely resembling that is used.
*'''''[[Super Mario Odyssey]]''''': The most generic of the many types of frogs, these ones are more well known for their [[capture]] abilities than anything else (they're neither characters you can interact with nor are they truly enemies).
All in all, I firmly believe that this part of the policy is a detriment to the wiki long-term, and call for its immediate repeal. Keep in mind that this will '''NOT''' affect console abbreviations as they are used within articles, just within article titles.
Unlike the [[Banana]] case, I don't see how these splits would be too complicated nor open up a can of worms. Each of the four non-generic Frog appearances look noticeably different from each other, and I think a split is warranted here.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' July 5, 2018, 23:59 GMT
 
===Support===
 
===Oppose===
 
===Comments===
 
==Identifier discussion (mostly for characters)==
Yes, I know I've discussed related cases with you countless times before, but this isn't necessarily the same case. This time I'm talking about a more problematic case - one that doesn't seem to be bound by [[MarioWiki:Naming#Determining the identifier|policy]] despite some admins saying it is.
 
Recently, some admins have been moving character pages with identifiers to the name of the species they identify as (such as [[Jerry (Bob-omb)]]). While that sounds perfectly normal at first glance, I think it's important to stress: Should we be consistent with this or not? The example I provided is just one of many examples of this trend...not bound by policy!
 
If you want my thoughts, I think it's not necessarily a good idea. I could go on and on about why I think that, but I think the problem is that not every character is of a species defined by ''Mario'' standards, which makes the cases wildly inconsistent with each other. To back up a bit, in some cases, that kind of identifier works fine, such as the aforementioned [[Jerry]] case; one is unambiguously a Bob-omb, while the other is unambiguously a Magikoopa. In other cases, the cracks begin to show, such as the [[Boomer]] case; one is clearly a Pixl, another is clearly a member of the Brothers Bear (though it has the generic "(bear)" identifier that's likely to cause problems), and another is a boss and therefore has a "(boss)" identifier (though should it have that identifier? Surely he has a bigger role than just a boss...). In yet other cases, that kind of identifier wouldn't seem to work at all, such as the [[Herman]] case; one is clearly a human, but the other appears to be a carnivorous plant of some kind (would it be "plant" or "carnivorous plant"? Even if you were to make a decree about this, I'm not sure if all of the users would agree on this.).

Latest revision as of 14:50, September 20, 2022

Completely do away with console abbreviations in titles for Mario Kart course articles

Policy right now dictates that console abbreviations be used for every single title in Mario Kart course articles that have made at least one "classic" appearence. While I fully understand the logic behind said policy, I don't see how this would work in the long term. In fact, I would even say that it's counterintuitive to MarioWiki's goals, and here's why:

  1. It looks ugly and hurts our professionalism. Just think about it for a bit. Those console abbreviations are just Nintendo's way of disambiguating which game each course originates from, and "the game company itself does it" is not a valid enough reason for us to bend backwards in this way.
  2. It's blatantly inconsistent. Barring the supposed "logic" used, how come none of the other pre-Mario Kart 8 courses have console abbreviations in their titles? I'd half expect, say, the Mario Kart DS variant of Rainbow Road to be titled under "DS Rainbow Road".
  3. It hurts navigation. Let's say a random reader familiar only with Mario Kart Wii wanted to search for Maple Treeway and started with "maple". There are plenty of articles whose names start with "Maple", but Maple Treeway is nowhere to be found due to the system rarely prioritizing redirects. No, the reader would have to type out almost the full title to get the actual redirect. I even tried searching a few other titles from, but they're all shoved at the bottom of the search below articles on subjects that are far less well known. And keep in mind, Maple Treeway isn't the only title with this kind of problem.
  4. Not even the Nintendo developers themselves use the system properly. I mean, just look at the Booster Course Pass and how they handle Ninja Hideaway and Sky-High Sundae. You'd expect them to be known as "Tour Ninja Hideaway" and "Tour Sky-High Sundae", but nothing even remotely resembling that is used.

All in all, I firmly believe that this part of the policy is a detriment to the wiki long-term, and call for its immediate repeal. Keep in mind that this will NOT affect console abbreviations as they are used within articles, just within article titles.

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