MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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{| align="center" style="width: 85%; background-color: #f1f1de; border: 2px solid #996; padding: 5px; color:black"
|'''Proposals''' can be new features (such as an extension), removal of a previously added feature that has tired out, or new policies that must be approved via [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] before any action(s) are done.
*Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!"
*"Vote" periods last for one week.
*All past proposals are [[/Archive|archived]].
|}
A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code <nowiki>{{User|</nowiki>''User name''<nowiki>}}</nowiki>.


This page observes the [[MarioWiki:No-Signature Policy|No-Signature Policy]].
==Writing guidelines==
''None at the moment.''


<h2 style="color:black">How To</h2>
==New features==
#If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and [[MarioWiki:Writing Guideline|Writing Guideline]] proposals ''must'' include a link to the draft page.
===Create a template to crop images on-the-fly without having to tamper with the base file's dimensions===
#Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for Writing Guidelines and Talk Page Proposals, which run for two weeks. ('''All times GMT.''')
{{Early notice|December 4}}
#*For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
So {{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} shared this nifty template that TCRF has: [[tcrf:Template:CSS image crop]], which allows images to be displayed in mainspace at a cut-out size from how they are on the image files themselves. This has two utilities: one is shrinking to a relevant entity in group textures such as {{file link|M&SatL2012OG Wii audience.png|this one}}, and the other is to avoid blank space without having to crop the raw graphic parameters - thus allowing best-of-both-worlds for the previous proposal I attempted (and failed), as it satisfies the OCD itch of avoiding bad and/or inconsistent crops on the base files without taking up unnecessary space where the images are actually used. It also removes a lot of unnecessary work actually cropping/uncropping images since you don't have to save them to a machine/web address to upload a new version - you can just put in the parameters you want and go from there.
#Every vote should have a reason accompanying it. Agreeing with or seconding a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted.
#Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may '''not''' remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the [[MarioWiki:Administrators|administrators]].
#If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote.
#No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than '''4 weeks''' ('''28 days''') old.
#Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "[[Wikipedia:Quorum|NO QUORUM]]." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
#All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
#If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of '''three''' votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
#Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
#All proposals are archived. The original proposer must '''''take action''''' accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
#Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an [[MarioWiki:Administrators|administrator]] at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that cancelled proposals must also be archived.
#If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
#There should not be proposals about creating articles on an underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a [[MarioWiki:PipeProject|PipeProject]].
#Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the [[MarioWiki:Administrators|administration]].
#No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.


<h3 style="color:black">Basic Proposal and Support/Oppose Format</h3>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
This is an example of what your proposal should look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to <u>replace the whole variable including the squared brackets</u>, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]".
'''Deadline''': December 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT
-----
<nowiki>===[insert a title for your Proposal here]===</nowiki><br>
<nowiki>[describe what issue this Proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the Wiki handles that issue]</nowiki>


<nowiki>'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br></nowiki><br>
====C-S-Yes====
<nowiki>'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT.]</nowiki>
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Goes without saying I think this is a good idea.
#{{user|Super Mario RPG}} Sounds like a reasonable compromise.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} It's better to crop an existing image programmatically than having to upload a cropped version for a specific use case.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Seems useful.
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} Sometimes I just find random things on other Wikis and remember a previously failed proposal. I hope this helps out!
#{{user|EvieMaybe}} per Jdtendo! this seems very useful
#{{User|Axii}} Per proposal.


<nowiki>====Support====</nowiki><br>
====No new template====
<nowiki>#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]</nowiki>


<nowiki>====Oppose====</nowiki>
====Comments on CSS image crop====
This appears to be similar to [[Template:Squared icon|a template I have made]] in order to crop images to perfectly squared off icons for uses on pages such as [[Pipe Frame]] (e.g. displaying Mii Racing Suit icons in the same table as other character icons); however, the version you're presenting seems to include more options. I'm not gonna vote yet, but so far I don't see the harm to have this other template too. {{User:Arend/sig}} 06:42, November 27, 2024 (EST)


<nowiki>====Comments====</nowiki>
==Removals==
-----
===Remove video game console generations===
Users will now be able to vote on your Proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own Proposal just like the others.
I would imagine most people who have discussed video games in the past have heard of {{wp|History of video_game consoles#Console generations|video game console generations}}. It is a tool to categorize video game hardware and its place in time. There is just one problem: the current video game console generation system is flawed. If you would like to further read into the specifics as to why I would recommend this [https://www.timeextension.com/features/is-wikipedia-really-to-blame-for-video-game-console-generations Time Extension article] by Jack Yarwood. But in short, the phrase "next generation" originates as a term used starting around the 1990s, as video games evolved over the many years, Wikipedia editors would create their own video game console generation system that has for the most part remained unchanged since its introduction in the early 2000s. This generation system would slowly be adopted by other sites, media, and the people who engage with video games.
 
To support, or oppose, just insert "<nowiki>#{{User|[add your username here]}}</nowiki> at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's Proposal. If you are voting on your own Proposal, you can just say "Per my Proposal".
 
__TOC__<!--
 
<center><span style="font-size:200%">CURRENTLY: '''{{#time: H:i, d M Y}} (GMT)'''</span></center>


Within the scope of the major [[Nintendo]] video game consoles, this is currently how the video game console generation system is categorized.


First generation: [[Color TV-Game]]<br>
Second generation: [[Game & Watch]]<br>
Third generation: [[Family Computer]], [[Nintendo Entertainment System]]<br>
Fourth generation: [[Super Famicom]], [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]], [[Game Boy]]<br>
Fifth generation: [[Nintendo 64]], [[Game Boy Color]]<br>
Sixth generation: [[Nintendo GameCube]], [[Game Boy Advance]]<br>
Seventh generation: [[Wii]], [[Nintendo DS]]<br>
Eighth generation: [[Wii U]], [[Nintendo 3DS]], [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>
Ninth generation: [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>


<br>
There is one obvious problem that you might have noticed. The Nintendo Switch is in the eighth and ninth generation. This is due to when the Nintendo Switch first released: March 3, 2017. The current system begins the ninth generation in November 2020 with the release of the {{wp|Xbox Series X and Series S|Xbox Series X/S}} and {{wp|PlayStation 5}} consoles. This is despite how for most of the lifespan of the Nintendo Switch, it has actually been competing against consoles that under this system is a whole generation ahead. Because of this, it is not entirely clear where the Nintendo Switch is in the video game console generation system and the solution is to simply file it in both generations rather than one or the other.
-->


<h2 style="color:black">Talk Page Proposals</h2>
Now the Nintendo Switch is a hybrid console, but what about portable consoles? The current video game console generation system lumps in both home and portable consoles. If the goal of the generation system was to be based on hardware specifications than it ultimately falls flat with consoles such as the 16-bit [[Super Famicom]] and [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]] home consoles being in the same generation as the 8-bit [[Game Boy]] portable console. For home consoles there is absolutely nothing in the second generation, with the [[Color TV-Game]] consoles being in the first and the [[Family Computer]] and [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] consoles being in the third. Portable consoles have a similar issue with nothing in the third generation, with the [[Game & Watch]] line in the second and the [[Game Boy]] being in the fourth.
All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the Wiki should still be held on this page.


:''For a list of all settled Talk Page Proposals, see [[:Category:Settled Talk Page Proposals|here]].''
For these reasons, I think it should be considered to remove video game console generations from this wiki. It is ultimately a flawed tool that originates as something made up by various Wikipedia editors that stuck around for far too long without real consideration of its flaws. If video game console generations are removed, we should gravitate towards more factual descriptions that better represent the consoles.


<h3 style="color:black">How To</h3>
Home consoles: 1. [[Color TV-Game]] 2. [[Family Computer]], [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] 3. [[Super Famicom]], [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]] 4. [[Nintendo 64]] 5. [[Nintendo GameCube]], 6. [[Wii]] 7. [[Wii U]] 8. [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>
#All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom). All pages affected must be mentioned in the ''brief'' description, with the talk page housing the discussion linked to directly via "({{fakelink|Discuss}})". If the proposal involved a page that is not yet made, use {{tem|fakelink}} to communicate its title. The '''Deadline''' must also be included in the entry. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{tem|TPP}} under the heading.
Portable consoles: 1. [[Game & Watch]] 2. [[Game Boy]] 3. [[Game Boy Color]] 4. [[Game Boy Advance]] 5. [[Nintendo DS]] 6. [[Nintendo 3DS]] 7. [[Nintendo Switch]]<br>
#All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How To" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
#Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one. ('''All times GMT.''')
#*For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
#Talk page proposals may be closed by the proposer at any time if both the support ''and'' the oppose sides each have fewer than five votes.
#The talk page proposal '''must''' pertain to the article it is posted on.


===List of Talk Page Proposals===
Home console example: "The [[Nintendo 64]] is the fourth [[Nintendo]] home console platform."<br>
*Move [[Grey Brick Block]] to Concrete Brick Block or Concrete Block ([[Talk:Grey Brick Block#Proposal: Move to Concrete Brick Block or Concrete Block|Discuss]]) '''Deadline''': July 6, 2011, 23:59 GMT
Portable console example: "The [[Nintendo DS]] is the fifth [[Nintendo]] portable console platform."<br>
*Merge [[Turtley Leaf]] with [[Koopa Leaf]] ([[Talk:Turtley Leaf|Discuss]]) '''Deadline''': July 6, 2011, 23:59 GMT
Hybrid console example: "The [[Nintendo Switch]] is the seventh portable and eighth home [[Nintendo]] console platform."<br>
*Split Yoshi's [[Super Star]] from Mario Party's Super Star ([[Talk:Super Star|Discuss]]) '''Deadline''': July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
*Split [[Young Elvin Gadd]] from [[Professor Elvin Gadd]] ([[Talk:Professor Elvin Gadd|Discuss]]) '''Deadline''': July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
*Split Mega Goomba (Species) from [[Mega Goomba]] ([[Talk:Mega Goomba|Discuss]]) '''Deadline''': July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
*Move [[List of Mario bosses]] to {{fakelink|Bosses}} ([[Talk:List of Mario bosses|Discuss]]) '''Deadline''': July 9, 2011, 23:59 GMT
*Split [[Mole Train]] from [[Mole Miner Max]] ([[Talk:Mole Train|Discuss]]) '''Deadline''': July 9, 2011, 23:59 GMT
*Merge [[Expresso II]] with [[Expresso]] ([[Talk:Expresso II|Discuss]]) '''Deadline:''' July 9, 2011, 23:59 GMT
*Split [[Giant Banana]] from [[Banana]] ([[Talk:Banana|Discuss]]) '''Deadline''': <s>July 3, 2011, 23:59 GMT</s> July 10, 2011, 23:59 GMT
*Split Flying Question Block from [[Question Block]] ([[Talk:Question Block|Discuss]]) '''Deadline''': July 15, 2011, 23:59 GMT
*Move [[Waluigi Pinball]] to {{fakelink|Waluigi Pinball (Course)}} ([[Talk:Waluigi Pinball|Discuss]])  '''Deadline''': July 16, 2011, 23:59 GMT
*Merge [[Dry Dry Desert (course)]] with [[Dry Dry Desert]] ([[Talk:Dry Dry Desert|Discuss]]) '''Deadline''': July 18, 2011, 23:59 GMT


==Writing Guidelines==
This alternative system does have flaws with the Switch being in two categories again, however that is due to the Switch being a hybrid between a home and portable console. The reason the console is in two video game generations according to Wikipedia is not as clear. Another much straightforward solution would be to simply list the predecessor and successor of each console.
''None at the moment.''


==New Features==
Example: "The predecessor to the [[Nintendo 64]] is the [[Super Famicom]] and [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]] and the successor is the [[Nintendo GameCube]]."
''None at the moment.''


==Removals==
This is the most likely solution if video game console generations were removed. It is easy to understand and already implemented to an extent. The work required is simply the removal process with minimal addition.
===Remove Staff Pages===
The title explains it all. I feel that the staff pages for the games are not needed in the fact that they are not really about "Mario" himself. We talk about Mario here, not about the people who made the games. People who play the games can know who made the game and all of that kind of stuff. But when we're talking about '''Mario''' on the Super '''Mario''' Wiki, these staff pages have no business being created.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Supremo78}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Bro3256}}<br>
'''Deadline''': July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
'''Deadline''': December 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
====Support====
#{{User|Supremo78}} As the proposer, I support my proposal.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Goomblob}} I think this pages are not necessary, so I support the proposal.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} console generations make more sense when comparing against several different consoles. for our use case, they're pretty irrelevant.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per proposer and EvieMaybe.
#{{User|Bro3256}} Per proposal.


====Oppose====
====Oppose====
#{{User|Goomba's Shoe15}} they should stay give credit is due they made the games so they should be recognized for that. Also per the original proposal that created them here [http://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_17#Staff_pages]
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - Regardless of contemporary awkwardness, it's still useful comparing the timelines for the ones of the past. I've ''still'' seen people not realize the GBC was in circulation around the same time of the N64 based on nothing but their respective bit-count.
#{{User|Reddragon19k}} Per GS15! I like it stood here where it belongs! We need the staff for various games like ''[[Mario Kart Wii]]'', ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]'' and more!
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} - This feels like a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". While we've always found the "console generations" thing really, really strange (as you can expect from a metric born from ''Wikipedia itself''), we can't deny that it is still useful to a degree, and unlike, say, calling unused content "beta" content, the term "console generation" is still a term that sees active use in gaming circles, even if as of late Nintendo's side of it has gotten a bit desynced. In addition, as was pointed out in the comments, the [[Philips CD-i]] is noticeably absent, but in addition to that, so is the [[Virtual Boy]], which is even more directly Nintendo related? Not that we'd particularly like this even if both of these were accounted for, mind...
#{{User|Xzelion}} Per Goomba's Shoe15 and my comments below.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Without the Virtual Boy in here, this numbering scheme just flat-out isn't actually true. As such, I can't support this proposal.
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per Xzelion. The people who make the games are just as important as the games themselves.
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Perhaps a better idea is to use <code>Cross-generation ({{tem|wp|Eighth generation of video game consoles|eighth}}—{{tem|wp|Ninth generation of video game consoles|ninth}})</code> on the Nintendo Switch page and use <code>{{tem|wp|[No.] generation of video game consoles|[No.] generation}}</code> on pages on all other systems. As such, I'm opposing this proposal.
#{{User|Koopa K}} Per All!
#{{User|Nicke8}} The people who made the games are Mario-related. Technically.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per Xzelion. Besides, the wiki isn't actually about Mario, it's about the ''Mario'' series, both the in-universe and real life aspects of it, and that certainly includes the people who made the games/shows/comics/etc.
#{{User|Zero777}} Per all
#{{User|Rise Up Above It}} Per all.
#{{User|Superfiremario}} Per all.
#{{User|Mario Fan 123}} "We talk about Mario here, not about the people who made the games." Sure, what about [[Shigeru Miyamoto|this guy]]? He created Mario, how about [[Satoru Iwata|this one]]? Even if the staff list may have minor people, they deserve a place here. If you were a person in that list and they just ignored you, wouldn't that make you angry? Per all...
#{{User|Mariomario64}} &ndash; Per all.
#{{User|Olors}} PER ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


====Comments====
====Comments====
@GS15 We still talk about Mario here though. If people want to know what the credits are, they can just simply look it up. People are still getting recognized by people playing their games. But like said in the proposal, we talk about Mario here. {{User|Supremo78}}
I disagree with the premise, since a tool that is helpful but flawed is still helpful. Moreover, we do cover a couple of devices that do not fit on a Nintendo-exclusive relative timeline, namely the [[Philips CD-i]] and the [[Triforce]] arcade boards. I guess "contemporary to the _____" works just as well, but there's a level of "semantics over broader public" thing that I'm a little iffy about if that kind of phrasing has to be used. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 13:51, November 29, 2024 (EST)
:A lot of the times the credits appear in the games themselves in fact NSMB Wii allows the credits to be played as a level also we have articles on voice actors and other people who never appear in the mario series but played a part in it so why not keep the credits  {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
::By credit pages, do you mean the staff pages? {{User|Xzelion}}
:::Yes. {{User|Supremo78}}
@GS15 I still think we should rethink the idea that we cover '''Mario''' here. {{User|Supremo78}}
:Oh and also, that's just making them subpages into the game articles, which the proposal is not really about here. {{User|Supremo78}}
:::Ok but we also cover the people that made mario and with out these people the mario series would not exist those people deserve to be mentioned for all the work they put in the games {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
@GS15 You are making me real frustrated. This is the Super '''Mario''' Wiki. We cover stuff about '''Mario'''. They do get the respect they deserve when the millions of people who buy the Mario games go through the credits, and if people want that very specific info, like stated in the proposal, if people want to find out, they can simply look it up on Google and go to another website. {{User|Supremo78}}
:I don't see the problem with them. The staff played an important role and helped bring us the game we all enjoyed (hypothetically). At the "they can just look it up" comment, you mean go to another site, right? Do we really want to be less detailed about Mario-information then other sites? Because while you don't see it as Mario related, not everyone is going to see it that way, we should never encourage people to go to another website to find this kind of information. As Goomba's Shoe15 pointed out, we have articles for voice actors, do they get deleted? I'd go as far as to say that the staff is just as important as console articles. And yes, we cover Mario articles here, but we also cover the Wario, Yoshi, and Donkey series information here, and some of them aren't about "Mario" himself. At your "people who played the game"...comment, how exactly should they know? I mean I don't memorize the credits as roll down the screen... {{User|Xzelion}}


:people should be able to find all mario related info on this site that includes the people who made the game especially since those credits are part of the game itself {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}


@Xzelion, that's a Good point. About your Mario article section of your comment, that's because they're spin-offs of the Mario series that need to be included. I think your comment is correct, but let's see how the proposal goes and see if I'm wrong or not. {{User|Supremo78}}
Where the HECK is the [[Virtual Boy]] in all of this? Nintendo's ''actual'' third portable console and part of the fourth generation (or fifth? It was supposed to keep customers occupied while waiting for the Nintendo 64), as it was released in 1995? {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:43, November 29, 2024 (EST)
:That's true, but in your comments about why it should be removed, you point out that the staff pages aren't really "about "Mario" himself", well nether are these spin-offs? And your comment about how my comment is correct, confuses me... {{User|Xzelion}}


::Yeah I'm weird like that :) Anyway the reason why we talk about Donkey Kong, Wario, and Yoshi series is because their based off of Mario. Also, because all three of those characters appear in ''Mario'' series games. Yes, these credits are based off of the ''Mario'' series considering they were made by those people, but are not a main part. Donkey Kong, Wario, and Yoshi as the characters and their own series are. {{User|Supremo78}}
:I didn't include select consoles in this proposal since my arguments mainly focused on the major [[Nintendo]] consoles. That is not to say consoles like the [[Virtual Boy]] and non-Nintendo consoles like the [[Philips CD-i]] aren't important (they are!), but I wanted to prioritize the issues present with how the video game geration system currently works with the major Nintendo consoles since these alone already present issues with the system without the additions of what was omitted for the purposes of this proposal.
:::I disagree without them, we wouldn't even have these games to play. That's major enough for me. {{User|Xzelion}}


Oh, and if you say They aren't about Mario himself, than we'll have to delete most of the pages.
:Regarding [[Triforce]], that is a whole different category of hardware. Arcade hardware for the most part has never worked with this generation system since it was primarly designed with home and portable consoles in mind. How do you even slot in arcade hardware to begin with? Arcade games had a completely different evolution to their console counterparts and were usually cutting edge at the time before any console equivalents made it to market, and even if they did unlike consoles, arcade hardware differs depending on the game. How can you be sure what a certain arcade game is running on is in a certain generation? --[[User:Bro3256|Bro3256]] ([[User talk:Bro3256|talk]]) 18:04, November 29, 2024 (EST)
{{User|Superfiremario}}


Keep those pages please! {{User|Olors}}
@Doc von Schmeltwick: I don't really see how that's an argument against this proposal. We have the release dates listed for the consoles, and the Game Boy Color article's very first sentence describes it as "the handheld counterpart of the Nintendo 64". Why is it also necessary to call them "fifth generation"? I'd argue that it's probably the least clear way of showing the connection, because I can't imagine "fifth generation" means anything to someone who doesn't know about when those consoles released. Not to mention that being in the same "generation" doesn't necessarily mean they were being sold at the same time, as the Wii U and Switch demonstrate. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 17:30, November 29, 2024 (EST)


===Remove Logos from Infobox Titles===
@Ahemtoday: Please read above the comment I made in regards to the absence of [[Virtual Boy]]. Keep and mind that I was presenting it as one possible solution if video game console generations were removed. That is not to say it should be the solution used hence why I provided another alternative one. If the first system was implemented into the wiki than I would imagine [[Virtual Boy]] being included. --[[User:Bro3256|Bro3256]] ([[User talk:Bro3256|talk]]) 18:25, November 29, 2024 (EST)
Quite a few games have logos instead of plain text for their infobox titles, but seeing as the game boxart also contains the logo and is located directly beneath the title, all this really does is show us the exact same graphic twice. This is redundant, and it looks sloppy, especially when the logos are transparent and the background colour interferes with the words. It's also inconsistent, since most games just use good ol' fashioned text. Compare [[Mario Kart DS]] with [[Mario Kart: Double Dash!!]] - there's no question as to which one looks more professional, and by extension, which style we should use. Other games using the superfluous title-logos include [[Super Mario Sunshine]], [[Super Mario Galaxy]], all three [[Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games]] titles, [[Mario Party 8]], [[Mario Kart Wii]] and both [[Super Smash Bros. Melee]] and [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl|Brawl]], among others. Then you have the occasional ''character'' page with a title-logo, which is completely unnecessary. The only time it makes sense to have logos is for series pages, since a single boxart isn't adequately representative of ''all'' the games involved. Some example of this logo usage are [[Super Smash Bros. (series)]], [[Mario Party (series)]], and [[Mario Kart (series)]] (compare with [[Mario Kart DS]]), but even then, the logos are being used as the infobox ''images'', not the titles.


In short, I propose we remove all instances where the logos are being used for the infobox titles. The logos can be put into the galleries (or incorporated into the body text, as is the case with the character pages), so nothing is being lost. Series pages with logos being used as their images will not be affected.
Do we really discuss console generations extensively on the wiki? I do not know of any examples offhand. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:40, November 29, 2024 (EST)


'''Proposer:''' {{User|Walkazo}}<br>
:The [[Family Computer]] and [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] articles are obvious examples but there's [[Mario%27s_Puzzle_Party#Trivia|this article's trivia section]] as an example of non-console articles.--[[User:Bro3256|Bro3256]] ([[User talk:Bro3256|talk]]) 00:08, November 30, 2024 (EST)
'''Deadline:''' July 12, 2011, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
<blockquote>"''There is one obvious problem that you might have noticed. The Nintendo Switch is in the eighth and ninth generation. This is due to when the Nintendo Switch first released: March 3, 2017. The current system begins the ninth generation in November 2020 with the release of the Xbox Series X/S and PlayStation 5 consoles. This is despite how for most of the lifespan of the Nintendo Switch, it has actually been competing against consoles that under this system is a whole generation ahead.''"</blockquote>
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Using text instead of logos is neater, simpler, clearer, more concise and less redundant, and it will make all the game pages consistent.
#{{User|Phoenix}} Couldn't have said it better myself. I support this 100%.
#{{User|Lindsay151}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Goomba's Shoe15}} Per Proposal
#{{User|Xzelion}} &ndash; Per Walkazo.
#{{User|Zero777}} I found those incredibly hideous, per Walkazo.
#{{user|Coincollector}} - I always wondered where it came the tendency to put the game logo in the game infoboxes. Per proposer.
#{{User|Reddragon19k}} I'm going to agree with Walkazo on this one. We don't need logos on infoboxes, we already have some in the gallery section. Take ''[[Mario Kart: Double Dash!!]]'' for example. The logo is on the article and the gallery for the game. If we lose it, then it can only be seen in the gallery page for that game. So, per Walkazo!
 
====Oppose====


====Comments====
But then I have to question: what about the {{wp|SG-1000}} and the {{wp|Master System|Mark III/Master System}} releasing just shy of a few years? I know it has a very time span compared to the Wii U and Switch, but if they are bundled under the third-generation, the Switch should also be this way for the eighth, right? {{User:PanchamBro/sig}} 01:00, November 30, 2024 (EST)
@ Walkazo: Could you include the removal of Logos of the consoles? Just as you said that color interferes with the design of the logos, this problem can also be seen in the [[Wii U]]'s page and the [[Wii]]. The [[GameCube]] takes a step further: How do you read a symbol of a game console in the infobox? {{user|Coincollector}}
:There have been countless debates regarding the {{wp|SG-1000}} in particular due to it sharing nearly the exact same hardware as the {{wp|ColecoVision}} yet both consoles are in different generations despite being released within one year apart. However this side of the console generations debate is not relevant to the scope of this wiki.--[[User:Bro3256|Bro3256]] ([[User talk:Bro3256|talk]]) 01:20, November 30, 2024 (EST)


==Changes==
==Changes==
 
''None at the moment.''
===Artwork Transparency Issues===
During the past set of months, I've been noticing that a good number of JPEG artworks were being replaced by PNG artworks with transparent backgrounds.  However, a lot of those images look quite ugly when they're viewed in backgrounds that aren't colored white.  I've mentioned this dilemma at the admins boards, and some of the Sysops there do agree with my statement.  I propose that any artworks with ugly-looking transparency has to lose the transparency.  After all, we shouldn't be modifying the artworks by any means; if the artworks are JPEGs, upload them as JPEGs; if the PNG artworks don't have anything transparent, upload them that way.
 
Update: To understand what's going on, please look [[User:M&SG/proposal|here]] for examples of good transparency and bad transparency.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|M&SG}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <s>June 30, 2011 23:59 GMT</s> July 7, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 
====Support====
#{{User|M&SG}} - Per my proposal.
#{{User|Supremo78}} - As I hear a lot, we strive to make this wiki better and better, and if images that don't make the wiki look well, it brings down the wiki's quality. Sometimes it's just better to leave small things alone to make bigger things better.
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Reddragon19k}} Per all!
#{{User|Yoshiwaker}} - I recall some images, such as the Black Mage artwork, looking better without transparency. Per all.
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} Adding transparency ruins the image. Per proposal.
#{{user|SWFlash}} ''"If the artworks are JPEGs, upload them as JPEGs."'' PNG. Even if not transparent, always upload PNG.
#{{user|Coincollector}} - Per proposer. Actually I don't see the necessity to converse JPEG files into PNG: there is no real difference in a picture when converting a JPEG into PNG, and the transparency thing is more of an excuse to say that the PNG is better than JPEG, never noticing the size of the picture wich is a lot heavier in PNG files. This is one of the various causes that retouching official artworks really bothers me. That and the user's less knowledge about a in-game model and a (very bad) cropped screenshot.
#{{User|Rise Up Above It}} Per all.
#{{User|Goomba's Shoe15}} Per all i don't like the way transparent images look anyways
#{{User|Dr Javelin}} As far as I can tell, transparency doesn't need to be added and makes many images look terrible. Per all.
#{{User|Magikrazy51}} Per UhHuhAlrightDaisy who tried to rid the Black Mage artwork of transparency (sorry Ultramario, but <s>our princess is in another castle</s> transparency isn't always better). Also per everyone else who supports this proposal.
#{{User|Superfiremario}} Okay, I get this now. Your saying you want ''bad'' transparency removed, right? I support now. If you didn't see [[User:M&SG/proposal|this]] you should.
#{{User|Gigaremo}} Per all. If transparency makes some images look bad, then it should be removed on those images.
#{{User|Xzelion}} &ndash; Per all.
#{{User|MarioMaster15}} Per all.
#{{User|Goomblob}} The wiki needs of good and striking images.
 
====Oppose====
#{{User|UltraMario3000}} I disagree with this proposal as PNGs are usually better then JPGs and the conversion from JPG to PNG is rather good because the images that I did in that way always looked more clear quality-wise.
#{{User|Zero777}} Per UM3000 and comment below. Just let users have the freedom to do whatever they want with the image as long it will look good on and make the article better in quality.
#{{User|SKmarioman}} Per UltraMario3000.
#{{User|YoshiGo99}} Per all.
#{{User|BoygeyDude}} Per all. JPGs (JPEGs) are a little crappy compared to PNGs.
#{{User|Mario Bros.!}} Per UltrMario3000,
#{{User|DKPetey99}} Per UM3000.
#{{User|Mariomario64}} &ndash; Per all.
#{{User|Smasher 101}} Per UltraMario
#{{User|New Super Mario}} Per UM
#{{User|Hypnotoad}} Per all, and as someone who works with these images, I find PNG images easier to use, and maintain a better quality post-process.
#{{User|Koopa K}} Per all.
#{{User|Arend}} What the heck, you want to get rid of all the transparent PNGs because they ''get a checkered background when you're viewing them in their file page''? That's ridiculous. Per all.
#{{User|Mario Fan 123}} Per all and Arend. This community is sort of annoying sometimes, when they make dumb proposals 'because transparent images look ugly'. Come on, transparent PNGs are way better than plain white background JPGs! And some of the JPG images come with a background, so that's annoying too.
#{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} - Per all, especially Arend.
#{{User|Not Bugsy}} Per all, and also, PNGs are good for saving space and keeping quality. You can compress them fine without losing quality, but if you compress JPGs, you get artifacts which lower image clarity.
#{{User|Yoshidude99}} Per all.
 
====Comments====
Recently I've been working with PNG sprite images with white backgrounds that are unnecessary and removing them and reuploading it. I haven't done anything with JPEGs. That's ok, right? {{User|Bowser's luma}}
:I think the proposal is saying that we should stop making non-transparent images transparent because if you put them behind a background that is a color other than white, you can still see some of the white around the picture. {{User|Fawfulfury65}}
::I don't understand the difference between a JPEG a PNG or transparency all i ever see are pictures {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
:::JPEG and PNG are popular image file formats. PNGs are more easily modifiable than JPEGs in a software such as Fireworks or Photoshop. Most images have backgrounds (generally white), and people can use software to remove them (an image without a background is considered transparent). It can be useful at times, but it is not always done perfectly. Usually, the software will remove most of a background using a tool, leaving the user to remove the rest manually, sometimes pixel-by-pixel depending on the quality wanted. The problem is that it can be a tedious process depending on the size of the image and the quantity of background to be removed, so some of it is likely to remain either unnoticed or unattended. On a white background (or one colored identically to the image background), there's no problem, but other backgrounds reveal these unnoticed or unattended portions and make the image, and by extension, the wiki, look unprofessional. {{User|Mario4Ever}}
:::::I'm really confused on this still. Can you give a few examples to really clear this up? {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}
::::::This image [[File:TrSuper mushroom.jpg|100px]] has a background (all of the space surrounding the trophy), while this image [[File:MarioNSMBWii.PNG|100px]] is transparent (all transparent images have that checkered "background" you see when clicking on it). {{User|Mario4Ever}}
UM: No, the proposer is talking about the bad quality transparent images, not all of the transparent images. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}}
 
I can see where some people are going by replacing JPEG artworks with PNG artworks.  However, if the PNG artworks do not have a transparent background, you should upload them just like that.  If a PNG artwork has transparency already when you download it, odds are, it'll probably look good on any kind of background.  If that truly is the case, that kind of artwork image can be uploaded; Ex.: [[File:MASATLOG_Tails.png|100x100px]]; when I found that image, it already had an Alpha Layer, and it looked good on a black background.  Basically, by normal standards, quality > transparency, and transparency should only be implemented if it looks good. - {{User|M&SG}}
:I have noticed that some users don't know how to keep the quality when changing it to a transparent image. When they upload the image it is smaller than the JPEG file was and so some users who know how to keep the quality and have it transparent have to fix the image. Also JPEG files has little dots that are hard to see that surround the image and they blend in with the white. We don't want to see that because it makes the image look like it has bad quality and that is probably why we make images transparent. - {{User|YoshiGo99}}
::Regardless, if the original artwork doesn't have transparency, do not alter it.  At times, adding transparency to artwork will make it look much worse, due to the pixelated edges that can be seen.  I learned that the hard way when I modified some ''Mario Super Sluggers'' artworks. - {{User|M&SG}}
 
'''@UltraMario3000:''' He's not saying that we shouldn't convert from JPG to PNG, but that if someone does that, they shouldn't make it transparent. {{User|Yoshiwaker}}
 
'''@Yoshiwaker:''' I don't see what's wrong with making it transparent though.:/--{{User|UltraMario3000}}
:Take an image and put it behind a black background. You'll see. {{User|Xzelion}}
::I don't get what you're trying to say Xze.--{{User|UltraMario3000}}
:::Look [[User:Xzelion/test|here]]. {{User|Xzelion}}
 
We should upload all artworks as PNG, because when JPG pictures are rescaled (&#91;[File:Example.jpg|''200px'']]), the they become very artifacted. {{user|SWFlash}}
:Most artworks that can be found on gaming websites are JPEGs however.  Besides, you shouldn't replace an HQ JPEG image with a low quality PNG image. {{User|M&SG}}
 
@Goomba's Shoe15: This proposal only applies to bad quality transparency artworks.  Artworks such as the one that Xzelion showed would not be affected, since those artworks already had transparency implemented before being uploaded; artworks that already have transparency usually tend to look good on any background color.  {{User|M&SG}}
:I know that {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
 
@M&SG Did I say anything about quantity? Also, PNG is lossless, if you didn't notice it. {{user|SWFlash}}
:I didn't say quantity.  Also, I didn't say that you shouldn't replace JPEG artworks with PNG artworks.  You can still do that, but if the PNG artworks have no transparency, don't make them transparent. {{User|M&SG}}
 
Just in case the proposal deadline has to be extended, please refer to [[User:M&SG/proposal|here]] for some examples of acceptable transparency and unacceptable transparency. {{User|M&SG}}
 
@Arend: You're missing the point.  This proposal only applies to artworks that have bad transparency.  Please look at my examples, and you'll clearly get the picture. {{User|M&SG}}
 
@Mario Fan 123: Well it's one thing when you have a white background, but when you put the image on a black background, that's when you'll notice how poorly done the transparency is. {{User|M&SG}}
 
<s>Okay, basically  you want to remove transparency?</s> Guys, they're saying they want bad transpaprensy removed.
{{User|Superfiremario}}
'''@Mario Bros.! I'm supporting now.''' {{User|Superfiremario}}
 
@Zero's vote: Most of these "transparent" images ''don't'' look good on articles{{User|Superfiremario}}
 
I'd like to point out a png image with awful transparency which should be used as an example for this proposal. Alas, I don't know the file name, but I know the image. It's the Galaxy Airship artwork that was ripped from the boss poster. The image looks fine on a white background, but put against a black background or save it to your computer and open it in MSPaint and it reveals how horrendous the transparency is. {{User|Rise Up Above It}}
 
IDK, but I'll show directly some examples from MS&G's page to coroborate the problems. Maybe many of you misunderstood this proposal. This is not to kill PNG as many of you think, it's to get rid '''badly edited or cropped pictures''' that they turned out be of worse quality than their originals (regardless they were JPEG or PNG or whatever). In a few words, pictures like artworks '''Shouldn't be edited'''.
 
The chart shows only the bad-edited pictures set in a black background, this can work in any colored bg but white or some white-based color.
 
{| style="background:#000000;"
|[[File:MSMart5.png|260px|center]]
|[[File:BowserKartWii.png|260px|center]]
|[[File:Bowsersmg2.png|260px|center]]
|[[File:BlackMagesportsmix.png|center]]
|}
 
It's possible to converse JPEGs into PNG but '''never edit them''' unless it needs so and in this case must be '''well-crafted'''. This is becoming in a trend by many user and shouldn't be atually in the Mariowiki, so think twice before taking a decent decision.
 
{{User|Coincollector}}
 
'''@All Opposers''' What M&SG is trying to say is that we need to remove the transparency from the images that look bad on a different color background than white. Jusy look at the pictures above. The look crappy in a black background.
{{User|Supremo78}}
 
===Recipe Images===
I've noticed an inconcistency with the images for the recipes. You can even look now at many of them. Many of them are quite alike, but they are different to the others alike. This has caused not only constant headaches with users like myself, but also more work for every user to do.
 
Just go to [[List of Tayce T. Recipes/By Ingredient|here]] and notice how each image is <noinclude>[[File:PaperMario Items <itemname>.png]]</noinclude> for the most part (as some are like .gif and .jpg). This is a great example - for the most part - of what I am talking about. Now go to [[List of Zess T. Recipes/By Ingredient|here]] or [[List of Saffron and Dyllis Recipes/By Ingredient|here]], and notice how many images are like <noinclude>[[File:<itemname> PM2.png/PNG]], [[File:<itemname>TTYD.png/PNG]], [[File:<nameitem>TTYD.png/PNG]], [[File:<itemnickname>.png/PNG]], [[File:<itemname> SPM.png/PNG]]</noinclude>, and then even images for items that are used for more than one game because there isn't a image  found!
 
My point I'm trying to come across is that many of our pages have had major work done on them because of this inconsistency, as well as editing them now being a major pain-in-the-neck. Changing them to something that will work out for all of them (<noinclude>[[File:PaperMario Items <itemname>.png]], [[File:<itemname> PM2.png]], and [[File:<itemname> SPM.png]]</noinclude> are what the ideal file names would be), we'll be able to create these pages more efficently, as well as editing further pages be a lot more smoother and less time-consuming.
 
As an example, [[Template:TTRi|this]] is more efficent way of making images easier, as the template already holds the key factors (<noinclude>[[File:PaperMario Items <itemname>.png]]</noinclude>) in it, which would allow the editor just to simply put in the item name. And for the pages that don't use that template, it will still allow easier editing since they would have to only put the key factors and the item name instead of looking up the image and copying it into a page.
 
The downside to all of this is that many of the pages already having these mix-matched file names would need to be fixed and updated to the latest things. Hopefully it won't take much time, and I already have it planned to quickly update each page before it ends up as a project that will take more than a few days. If the proposal pass, I'll start immediately on working, and hopefully have some help to get it down. That is the only downside I can see to this passing afaik. Even if it takes some work, it is better to have consistency then have all this annoying work done if it could be much simplier.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}<br>
'''Deadline''': July 4, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 
====Have them match====
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - I have done many of the pages that hold a lot of these images, and this the best option that I wish I thought of long ago. Per my proposal.
#{{User|Rise Up Above It}} This makes sense to me. It'll be more consistent. Consistency is good. Per BMB.
#{{User|Reddragon19k}} - I'm Reddragon and I approve this proposal! Per all!
 
====Leave as it is====
#{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} - I think I understand this one. My point is that this is rather pointless. Nobody is going to see the filenames if they don't want to, and, even so, they're there to see the recipes, not the filenames or the pictures. The names wouldn't bother someone who went to the page for its purpose. And if that's completely irrelevant, then, again, I don't understand what you're proposing.
#{{user|SWFlash}} Per MCD.
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per both.
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - Per this dashing mystery fellow with the top-hat.
#{{User|Supremo78}} Per MrConcreteDonkey.
#{{User|Xzelion}} &ndash; Per MrConcreteDonkey.
#{{User|Superfiremario}} Who cares, per MCD.
 
====Comments====
@MCD: For the viewer, it is pretty much pointless to them. But I'm viewing this to the people that have constantly had to edit the pages full of images. I was editing many yesterday, and I was completely annoyed with all the extra work I had to do. It may not seem like a lot to a viewer, but it's a big difference to thoses that have edited the pages like myself. I for a fact that this isn't the first proposal to deal with editing and consistency. {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}
:What about the extra work this will bring across for the Sysops? That will be much more tedious. {{User|MrConcreteDonkey}}
::I never said anything about sysops. Yes, images would have to be deleted, but its no different from any other image deletions. It's not like there are over 100 (maybe even less than 50) that don't follow this rule. Likewise, 1/3 of them are already completed, and another 1/4 of the remainder are already in the correct category. That leaves about less than half that are already done. I do feel bad that some would do that, but I'm looking at the long run, and I see this as something that will help us with less work than extra work. {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}
:::Well, then why is it a huge problem? Any amount of deleting takes time away from the sysops. And all of the image adding for those three pages is already done. "Constantly '''had'''", not "constantly '''do'''". {{User|MrConcreteDonkey}}
::::Forgive me for saying this, but you're annoyed by all the extra work you had to do...so you wanna make the Sysops do the work instead? o_0 {{User|Xzelion}}
:::::I don't think he meant it that way, Xze. But the idea makes sense if it was properly implemented, as the filenames would be more consistent which would be easier for when other users link one or more of those files to another page. It could apply to all images/sprites of recurring objects/enemies/items etc in a series, not just the ''Paper Mario'' series. I think that that's what BMB is trying to get at. Although I do see the point made by MCD, that the viewer won't really be bothered by erroneous naming of files. {{User|Rise Up Above It}}
::::::Yeah, sometimes I have trouble really saying what I mean. Thanks RUAI. I hate having  that main problem with the extra work having to be done for this, and I hate that I can't do all of it myself, and that is why this proposal is very well-sided. Xzelion, I don't want to make you or another sysop do the work, but I also want some consistency on editing things. MCD makes a great point with the fact that this is not that important, but I would rather try for some consistency instead of just doing nothing and leave it for it to just get worst. I wish that this could have happened while the file were beginning to form, but that was my ignorance about the topic. Rise Up Above It: That would be really good to do it with more than just recipe images, but I'm just doing this since this is a real dead-give-a-way to the inconsistency to the images. {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}
:::::::To clarify, I have no problem doing more work, should this proposal come to pass. I'd be more than happy to help. But I have to agree with MCD here. I'd like to add that I feel it;d be too much work and in the end the Wiki hasn't entirely benefited from. The work outweighs the worth. Although, I do think we'd be better off enforcing this rule for new game images, but that just may be me. {{User|Xzelion}}


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
===Merge all Donkey Kong lists with Mario lists===
''None at the moment.''
This proposal started off as a TPP, which I said the list of Donkey Kong bosses with the Mario bosses list. Goomba's Shoe15 than told me in the comments that we need to merge all other Donkey Kong lists to prevent inconsistency. I liked the idea, and then created this proposal.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Supremo78}}<br>
'''Deadline''': July 11, 2011, 23:59
 
====Support====
#{{User|Supremo78}} - Per my proposal
#{{User|Goomba's Shoe15}} the reason we should do this is because it is inconstant to have the Donkey Kong related thing on there own list while not giving the wario or yoshi series things there own list so i think we should merge them all into one list for consistency so per my idea
#{{User|Zero777}} Yoshi and Wario don't have a list of their own bosses, so I don't get what makes DK so different; categories are fine, but articles, read the first part of my support.
#{{User|BoygeyDude}} Per Zero777.
#{{User|Reddragon19k}} Per all! I'm seeing fireworks in this proposal! BOOM!
#{{User|Tails777}} Per all especially Zero777. Despite having his own series, Donkey Kong is a part of the Mario series.
 
====Oppose====
====Comments====
Is it like an article list or a category? {{User|Zero777}}
:the big lists on the main page the categories are fine since all the other series have them {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
:Remember, one week for normal proposals, two weeks for TPPs! [[User:Reddragon19k|Reddragon19k]] 08:27, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 04:09, November 30, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Saturday, November 30th, 09:55 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  2. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  3. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  8. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  9. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  12. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  13. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  14. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  15. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  16. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  17. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  18. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  19. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  20. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 14 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "November 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

  • Determine how to handle the Tattle Log images from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) (discuss) Deadline: November 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT
  • Merge False Character and the Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams to List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses (discuss) Deadline: December 2, 2024, 23:59 GMT
  • Move Kolorado's father to Richard (discuss) Deadline: December 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT
  • Move Mysterious Cloud to either Hat Cloud or Cap cloud (discuss) Deadline: December 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT
  • Split and trim the Vine article (discuss) Deadline: December 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)
Use the classic and classic-link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split articles for the alternate-named reskins from All Night Nippon: Super Mario Bros., Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 3, 2024)
Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)
Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)
Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)
Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)
Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)
^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Split Banana Peel from Banana, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2024)
Merge Spiked Thwomp with Thwomp, Blinker (ended November 2, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Expand and rename List of characters by game to List of characters by first appearance, Hewer (ended November 20, 2024)
Create articles for "Ashita ni Nattara" and "Banana Tengoku" or list them in List of Donkey Kong Country (television series) songs, Starluxe (ended November 23, 2024)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Create a template to crop images on-the-fly without having to tamper with the base file's dimensions

Based on the early vote, this proposal may be eligible to close one week early. Please use {{proposal check|early=yes}} on December 4 at 23:59 GMT and close the proposal if applicable.

So Wildgoosespeeder (talk) shared this nifty template that TCRF has: tcrf:Template:CSS image crop, which allows images to be displayed in mainspace at a cut-out size from how they are on the image files themselves. This has two utilities: one is shrinking to a relevant entity in group textures such as this oneMedia:M&SatL2012OG Wii audience.png, and the other is to avoid blank space without having to crop the raw graphic parameters - thus allowing best-of-both-worlds for the previous proposal I attempted (and failed), as it satisfies the OCD itch of avoiding bad and/or inconsistent crops on the base files without taking up unnecessary space where the images are actually used. It also removes a lot of unnecessary work actually cropping/uncropping images since you don't have to save them to a machine/web address to upload a new version - you can just put in the parameters you want and go from there.

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
Deadline: December 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT

C-S-Yes

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Goes without saying I think this is a good idea.
  2. Super Mario RPG (talk) Sounds like a reasonable compromise.
  3. Jdtendo (talk) It's better to crop an existing image programmatically than having to upload a cropped version for a specific use case.
  4. Ahemtoday (talk) Per proposal.
  5. Pseudo (talk) Seems useful.
  6. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) Sometimes I just find random things on other Wikis and remember a previously failed proposal. I hope this helps out!
  7. EvieMaybe (talk) per Jdtendo! this seems very useful
  8. Axii (talk) Per proposal.

No new template

Comments on CSS image crop

This appears to be similar to a template I have made in order to crop images to perfectly squared off icons for uses on pages such as Pipe Frame (e.g. displaying Mii Racing Suit icons in the same table as other character icons); however, the version you're presenting seems to include more options. I'm not gonna vote yet, but so far I don't see the harm to have this other template too. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 06:42, November 27, 2024 (EST)

Removals

Remove video game console generations

I would imagine most people who have discussed video games in the past have heard of video game console generations. It is a tool to categorize video game hardware and its place in time. There is just one problem: the current video game console generation system is flawed. If you would like to further read into the specifics as to why I would recommend this Time Extension article by Jack Yarwood. But in short, the phrase "next generation" originates as a term used starting around the 1990s, as video games evolved over the many years, Wikipedia editors would create their own video game console generation system that has for the most part remained unchanged since its introduction in the early 2000s. This generation system would slowly be adopted by other sites, media, and the people who engage with video games.

Within the scope of the major Nintendo video game consoles, this is currently how the video game console generation system is categorized.

First generation: Color TV-Game
Second generation: Game & Watch
Third generation: Family Computer, Nintendo Entertainment System
Fourth generation: Super Famicom, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, Game Boy
Fifth generation: Nintendo 64, Game Boy Color
Sixth generation: Nintendo GameCube, Game Boy Advance
Seventh generation: Wii, Nintendo DS
Eighth generation: Wii U, Nintendo 3DS, Nintendo Switch
Ninth generation: Nintendo Switch

There is one obvious problem that you might have noticed. The Nintendo Switch is in the eighth and ninth generation. This is due to when the Nintendo Switch first released: March 3, 2017. The current system begins the ninth generation in November 2020 with the release of the Xbox Series X/S and PlayStation 5 consoles. This is despite how for most of the lifespan of the Nintendo Switch, it has actually been competing against consoles that under this system is a whole generation ahead. Because of this, it is not entirely clear where the Nintendo Switch is in the video game console generation system and the solution is to simply file it in both generations rather than one or the other.

Now the Nintendo Switch is a hybrid console, but what about portable consoles? The current video game console generation system lumps in both home and portable consoles. If the goal of the generation system was to be based on hardware specifications than it ultimately falls flat with consoles such as the 16-bit Super Famicom and Super Nintendo Entertainment System home consoles being in the same generation as the 8-bit Game Boy portable console. For home consoles there is absolutely nothing in the second generation, with the Color TV-Game consoles being in the first and the Family Computer and Nintendo Entertainment System consoles being in the third. Portable consoles have a similar issue with nothing in the third generation, with the Game & Watch line in the second and the Game Boy being in the fourth.

For these reasons, I think it should be considered to remove video game console generations from this wiki. It is ultimately a flawed tool that originates as something made up by various Wikipedia editors that stuck around for far too long without real consideration of its flaws. If video game console generations are removed, we should gravitate towards more factual descriptions that better represent the consoles.

Home consoles: 1. Color TV-Game 2. Family Computer, Nintendo Entertainment System 3. Super Famicom, Super Nintendo Entertainment System 4. Nintendo 64 5. Nintendo GameCube, 6. Wii 7. Wii U 8. Nintendo Switch
Portable consoles: 1. Game & Watch 2. Game Boy 3. Game Boy Color 4. Game Boy Advance 5. Nintendo DS 6. Nintendo 3DS 7. Nintendo Switch

Home console example: "The Nintendo 64 is the fourth Nintendo home console platform."
Portable console example: "The Nintendo DS is the fifth Nintendo portable console platform."
Hybrid console example: "The Nintendo Switch is the seventh portable and eighth home Nintendo console platform."

This alternative system does have flaws with the Switch being in two categories again, however that is due to the Switch being a hybrid between a home and portable console. The reason the console is in two video game generations according to Wikipedia is not as clear. Another much straightforward solution would be to simply list the predecessor and successor of each console.

Example: "The predecessor to the Nintendo 64 is the Super Famicom and Super Nintendo Entertainment System and the successor is the Nintendo GameCube."

This is the most likely solution if video game console generations were removed. It is easy to understand and already implemented to an extent. The work required is simply the removal process with minimal addition.

Proposer: Bro3256 (talk)
Deadline: December 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Technetium (talk) Per proposal.
  2. EvieMaybe (talk) console generations make more sense when comparing against several different consoles. for our use case, they're pretty irrelevant.
  3. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per proposer and EvieMaybe.
  4. Bro3256 (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Regardless of contemporary awkwardness, it's still useful comparing the timelines for the ones of the past. I've still seen people not realize the GBC was in circulation around the same time of the N64 based on nothing but their respective bit-count.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) - This feels like a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". While we've always found the "console generations" thing really, really strange (as you can expect from a metric born from Wikipedia itself), we can't deny that it is still useful to a degree, and unlike, say, calling unused content "beta" content, the term "console generation" is still a term that sees active use in gaming circles, even if as of late Nintendo's side of it has gotten a bit desynced. In addition, as was pointed out in the comments, the Philips CD-i is noticeably absent, but in addition to that, so is the Virtual Boy, which is even more directly Nintendo related? Not that we'd particularly like this even if both of these were accounted for, mind...
  3. Ahemtoday (talk) Without the Virtual Boy in here, this numbering scheme just flat-out isn't actually true. As such, I can't support this proposal.
  4. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Perhaps a better idea is to use Cross-generation ({{wp|Eighth generation of video game consoles|eighth}}—{{wp|Ninth generation of video game consoles|ninth}}) on the Nintendo Switch page and use {{wp|[No.] generation of video game consoles|[No.] generation}} on pages on all other systems. As such, I'm opposing this proposal.

Comments

I disagree with the premise, since a tool that is helpful but flawed is still helpful. Moreover, we do cover a couple of devices that do not fit on a Nintendo-exclusive relative timeline, namely the Philips CD-i and the Triforce arcade boards. I guess "contemporary to the _____" works just as well, but there's a level of "semantics over broader public" thing that I'm a little iffy about if that kind of phrasing has to be used. Salmancer (talk) 13:51, November 29, 2024 (EST)


Where the HECK is the Virtual Boy in all of this? Nintendo's actual third portable console and part of the fourth generation (or fifth? It was supposed to keep customers occupied while waiting for the Nintendo 64), as it was released in 1995? ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 15:43, November 29, 2024 (EST)

I didn't include select consoles in this proposal since my arguments mainly focused on the major Nintendo consoles. That is not to say consoles like the Virtual Boy and non-Nintendo consoles like the Philips CD-i aren't important (they are!), but I wanted to prioritize the issues present with how the video game geration system currently works with the major Nintendo consoles since these alone already present issues with the system without the additions of what was omitted for the purposes of this proposal.
Regarding Triforce, that is a whole different category of hardware. Arcade hardware for the most part has never worked with this generation system since it was primarly designed with home and portable consoles in mind. How do you even slot in arcade hardware to begin with? Arcade games had a completely different evolution to their console counterparts and were usually cutting edge at the time before any console equivalents made it to market, and even if they did unlike consoles, arcade hardware differs depending on the game. How can you be sure what a certain arcade game is running on is in a certain generation? --Bro3256 (talk) 18:04, November 29, 2024 (EST)

@Doc von Schmeltwick: I don't really see how that's an argument against this proposal. We have the release dates listed for the consoles, and the Game Boy Color article's very first sentence describes it as "the handheld counterpart of the Nintendo 64". Why is it also necessary to call them "fifth generation"? I'd argue that it's probably the least clear way of showing the connection, because I can't imagine "fifth generation" means anything to someone who doesn't know about when those consoles released. Not to mention that being in the same "generation" doesn't necessarily mean they were being sold at the same time, as the Wii U and Switch demonstrate. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 17:30, November 29, 2024 (EST)

@Ahemtoday: Please read above the comment I made in regards to the absence of Virtual Boy. Keep and mind that I was presenting it as one possible solution if video game console generations were removed. That is not to say it should be the solution used hence why I provided another alternative one. If the first system was implemented into the wiki than I would imagine Virtual Boy being included. --Bro3256 (talk) 18:25, November 29, 2024 (EST)

Do we really discuss console generations extensively on the wiki? I do not know of any examples offhand. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:40, November 29, 2024 (EST)

The Family Computer and Nintendo Entertainment System articles are obvious examples but there's this article's trivia section as an example of non-console articles.--Bro3256 (talk) 00:08, November 30, 2024 (EST)

"There is one obvious problem that you might have noticed. The Nintendo Switch is in the eighth and ninth generation. This is due to when the Nintendo Switch first released: March 3, 2017. The current system begins the ninth generation in November 2020 with the release of the Xbox Series X/S and PlayStation 5 consoles. This is despite how for most of the lifespan of the Nintendo Switch, it has actually been competing against consoles that under this system is a whole generation ahead."

But then I have to question: what about the SG-1000 and the Mark III/Master System releasing just shy of a few years? I know it has a very time span compared to the Wii U and Switch, but if they are bundled under the third-generation, the Switch should also be this way for the eighth, right? -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 01:00, November 30, 2024 (EST)

There have been countless debates regarding the SG-1000 in particular due to it sharing nearly the exact same hardware as the ColecoVision yet both consoles are in different generations despite being released within one year apart. However this side of the console generations debate is not relevant to the scope of this wiki.--Bro3256 (talk) 01:20, November 30, 2024 (EST)

Changes

None at the moment.

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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