Talk:Big Chain Chomp

Move Super Princess Peach information to Chomp

So the large Chain Chomps from SPP are called Big Chain Chomps, even though they have no chain. Chain Chomps that are oversized and have no chain are known as Chomps. This is nothing more than an error and if you look at its japanese name you can see that Chomp Shark had the exact same error. VOIDTHIS (talk) 13:38, 17 July 2018 (CEST)

A similar discussion is over here, but in regards to the Chomp / Chain Chomp difference - there are instances where "Chain Chomps" are known as "Chomps" (ex. Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario) and instances where "Chomps" are known as "Chain Chomps" (ex. Super Mario Maker), and some languages such as Japanese don't change between the two, so it's possible that the distinction isn't as tight as we've made it out to be. Size is also something that differs depending on the game; for example, the Chain Chomps of Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine are fairly large, yet the respective games consider them to be normal Chain Chomps. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:09, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

The fairly large Chain Chomps from SM64 and SMS are described as normal ones, but there aren't even smaller ones to compare them to. However there are Chain Chomps in SPP that are smaller than the Big Chain Chomp, so they are counted as oversized in this game, but they look like Chomps. VOIDTHIS (talk) 17:15, 17 July 2018 (CEST)

The Big Chain Chomp from Super Princess Peach is still clearly named in relation to the game's standard Chain Chomp, so if anything, that is further evidence that the line between what we consider Chomps and Chain Chomps is thin. Besides, would it not make more sense to split it into a "Big Chain Chomp (Super Princess Peach)" article? LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:34, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

Yeah, I think the Big Chain Chomp (Super Princess Peach) article would be the best thing we could do. I'll make a proposal some time or you can do it yourself if you want. VOIDTHIS (talk) 18:37, 17 July 2018 (CEST)

The thing is that the other discussion is about merging it with Shark Chomp (Shark Chomp has fairly different behavior, but the behavior of unchained Chomps in general has never been consistent), so the proposal should probably have multiple options to address both, though I agree that if unchained Chomps and Chain Chomps are to remain separate, then it stands out if the Super Princess Peach Big Chain Chomp shares the same space as the others. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:16, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

Do what the above section header indicates and merge to Chomp Shark

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

merge 5-0

See above. "Biggu" in the context of this franchise is almost exclusively used for large enemies and bosses in the Yoshi games. And while it doesn't act really like Chomp Shark, it is worth noting that Blindfold Boo also doesn't act like its SMW2 originator; in fact, that acts like Chomp Shark! Anyways, aside from JP name, these have similar nonstandard eye position, are of the chainless "Chomp" variety, and their position in the glossary does not indicate that in considers it a "new" enemy (those being Walruss and the Starfish). It's certainly not the same thing as what it's merged with now, at any rate.

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
Deadline: February 26, 2020, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) Per above
2. Power Flotzo (talk) Per Doc.
3. Niiue (talk) Per proposal.
4. LinkTheLefty (talk) It's only logical to distinguish the big varieties this way given that Chain Chomps will remain split based on chain status. Per this and all previous support.
5. Doomhiker (talk) Per all.

Merge Chomp Shark with this article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Merge Chomp Shark entirely 7-1-0
I was going to wait until the Big Chomp and Little Chomp proposal was over before doing this as two of its options involve these articles, but that proposal is currently stagnating and doesn't actually have a clear consensus, so I'm doing this now because I'm impatient to help push it forward. The Japanese names of Chomp Shark and Big Chain Chomp are Biggu Wanwan and Deka Wanwan respectively, which generally mean the same thing - "Big Chain Chomp". Chomp Shark has a separate article because of its unique behavior in the Yoshi's Island series and non-generic English name (English YI flowering up the names being par for the course), but then the above proposal got the Super Princess Peach one added to the article solely because it had the same Japanese name, despite not sharing its unique behavior or English name. (Note that SPP's English translation kinda sucks; see "Boss P. Plant", "Volcano Plant", and "Mecha-Spike Top".) So if Chomp Shark isn't defined by its behavior, then what does define it? The answer: nothing. They're both giant Chomps, with the only distinguishing factor with how we're handling them now being the Japanese name, which is inconsistent with how we handle other giant enemy variants, whose names tend to vary even in Japanese. Therefore, I don't see a reason to keep them split.

An alternate solution would be to simply undo the above proposal and move the SPP section back here, defining Chomp Shark by it's YI behavior. Keep in mind that YI Piranha Plants (along with other examples I'm not thinking of right away), also have different behavior from other series, and they're not split.

Proposer: 7feetunder (talk)
Deadline: September 1, 2022, 23:59 GMT

Merge Chomp Shark entirely

1. 7feetunder (talk) Preferred option.
2. LinkTheLefty (talk) I've always felt like this is mainly a holdover of the archaic "Chain Chomp=/=Chomp" distinction. And while I'm aware that the Yoshi's Island series usually pegs "Biggu" as something more transformative than the usual giant enemies, I think that's the keyword - "transformative". Chomp Shark is just a regular enemy instead of one of Kamek's various transformed bosses, which is where I think most if not all of the distinction lays. And as I've mentioned here, it seems they were originally to be known as「きょだいワンワン」 (Kyodai Wanwan, Giant Chain Chomp), which incidentally made it to at least one preview and is still used to refer to Incoming Chomps here. That would've fit it much more in line with the typical "Kyodai/Deka" terms. I'm against the alternative because I still agree with the above proposal's assessment that it's not a "new" enemy.
3. Arend (talk) I had already stated before that I find Chomp Shark not quite distinct enough to be its own article - maybe if it got a Japanese name that isn't just "Big Chain Chomp" or anything related to size, as we have Big Goomba and Giant Goomba share an article, which also tend to have differing Japanese names like Kyodai Kuribo and Deka Kuribo.
4. ThePowerPlayer (talk) While Chomp Sharks are indeed relatively distinct from Big Chain Chomps in their Yoshi's Island series appearances, after examining the Big Chain Chomp article in detail, they have more similarities than I initially realized. Firstly, the vast majority of Big Chain Chomps cannot be directly harmed, just like Chomp Sharks (to my knowledge, the player can only directly defeat Big Chain Chomps in the Super Mario Maker games and in Super Mario Odyssey, by capturing a T-Rex). Secondly, most Big Chain Chomps are enormous, especially in Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, and Princess from Paper Mario: Color Splash.
5. Swallow (talk) Per all
6. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.
7. Archivist Toadette (talk) I was never a fan of the "Chain Chomp ≠ Chomp" argument in the first place. Per all.

Move the SPP section of Chomp Shark back here

1. 7feetunder (talk) Second choice.

Comments

This may be irrelevant, but if we do end up merging Chomp Shark to the Big Chain Chomp article, I think that information on the Chain Chomps in Jungle Hut from Yoshi's Story should also be moved to Big Chain Chomp. These Chain Chomps are mentioned in the Trivia section of the Chomp Shark article as being very similar (like Chomp Sharks, they are enormous and cannot be defeated). On the main Chain Chomp article, their section lists them as being called "Chomp Chomps" by Nintendo 64 Game Secrets, 1999 Edition: Prima's Official Strategy Guide. This name is similar to "Giant Chomp-Chomp", one of the alternate names used for Chomp Shark. Admittedly, the Yoshi's Story Nintendo Player's Guide refers to them as "three mammoth Chomps", without any explicit reference to the name "Big Chain Chomp", but considering that these Chain Chomps are both giant and chainless like Chomp Sharks, I still feel that they would fit best under the merged Big Chain Chomp article. --ThePowerPlayer (talk) 21:38, August 18, 2022 (EDT)

I'd say that might be a separate issue. What about the Chain Chomp from Super Mario 64? It's also referred to as a "Big Chomp" in some material, yet it's the only size that shows up, so there's no frame of reference within the game. Unless you say that the Chomp icon from the Melon Races counts, but that's just a HUD element. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:10, August 20, 2022 (EDT)

I do wanna say before this ends, I do generally want to keep the Yoshi biggu entities separate from the Kyodai/Dai/Deka/Mega/etc ones, for the simple reason that otherwise Naval Piranha, Hookbill the Koopa, and Knot-Wing the Koopa would be considered interchangeable with Big Piranha Plant, Big Koopa Troopa, and Big Koopa Paratroopa respectively, and Ultimate's Piranha list keeps Naval Piranha and Big Piranha Plant split. That being said, as LTL pointed out, the biggu unique aspect is usually transformational, which is reversed in the case of the Chain Chomps where there was none until the Dai/Deka one in NSMBW. However, YNI choosing to keep the biggu name can be seen as proof they are still intended as separate, though it could just as easily be seen as series legacy naming. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:54, September 1, 2022 (EDT)

Series legacy naming seems like the more plausible explanation to me. 14:34, September 1, 2022 (EDT)

Shark Chomp Fusion Review by Mega Boo and Big Boo Division

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Well the other day I was browsing as usual and I realized that Mega Boo had been split from Gran Boo through the Mario portal, (despite them having the same name in Japanese) so I wanted to do a review if it is really okay to keep Gran Chomp from Chomp Shark merged since although they have different names in Japanese, in all the other languages they have different names, in addition to the difference in mechanics, while Gran Chomp acts like a large Chomp, Shark Chomp has the ability to float and devour blocks, which is already enough to separate them personally, plus it is like all the Chomp variants from the Yoshi series, only being Chomps with different forms of attack and action.Sorbetti (talk)

They don't have the same name in Japanese, though; the Mega Boo's name had been used as an informal descriptor once 20 years before. The main reason it's split is that it's already accompanied by "normal" Big Boos, so it presumably wouldn't be one itself. As for the Chomps, "Biggu Wanwan" also covered the Super Princess Peach and Mario Party 3 ones, the latter of which even has a chain and seems more like Super Mario 64's Chain Chomp. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:12, March 5, 2025 (EST)

Those Chomps are not Shark Chomps, not because they are big Chomps and do not have a chain are they immediately Shark Chomps, Shark Chomps have only appeared in SMW2, Yoshi island DS and Yoshi new island maintaining their behavior, appearance and acting, also I do not think you should trust the game that have names like Mecha Spike Top or also BOSS P.Plant, finally although the guide could name Mega Boo, in the same Yoshi new island game there is a level with the name Shark Chomp, officially making it Finally, when it is mentioned that Mega Boo is accompanied by large Boos? I would like to know since these Boos only look like slightly larger Boos, and if we do not have confirmation that they are large we cannot be sure as in other cases where large enemies are seen but they are only named as if they were the normal size Finally, it is worth mentioning a small investigation that I have done on Japanese names. Most of the time, the Japanese names for large enemies will only be large enemies, although there is a real difference, for example with Punkey the pokey prince who in Japanese is called Biggu Sanbo, the same name as giant pokeys. As far as I am concerned, regarding the names of larger enemies, we should not take Japanese names into consideration so much.Sorbetti (talk)

The Boos that surround it are physically larger than the normal Boos in SMG2, and are about the same size as the Big Boo in the first SMG. Doesn't seem like a stretch to me, IMO. "Biggu" is often separate from "Kyodai/Dai/Deka" in Japanese names, particularly regarding Yoshi bosses. Also, those weird SPP games are exclusive to the English localization; the Japanese one named them perfectly consistently. If one giant chainless Chomp that constantly moves forward while gnashing its jaws endlessly is likened to another, why would specifics that have more to do with gameplay style matter? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:15, March 5, 2025 (EST)

I apologize for the gigantism names in Japanese, there was a confusion on my part, but this in turn proves a point of mine, by the way, I am totally in favor of the separation of Big Boo and Mega Boo, do not think otherwise, now yes as to what I wanted to say, the Shark Chomps have as a name in Japanese Deku Wan wan, while the Giant Chomps have Biggu Wan wan, however what is that in 2 later games 2 large chomp chomp specimens were named Deku Wan Wan despite not having the behavior of Shark Chomp, but in Yoshi New Island this name is used again to specifically name Shark Chomp, since then Deka Wan Wan has not been used again with any other chompSorbetti (talk)

You have the names mixed up, btw, "Deka" is the "normal" big, while "Biggu" is Chomp Shark and the YI bosses. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:20, March 5, 2025 (EST)

Oh well, it seems I'm going to have to improve my eyesight, well in any case as I was saying they are still different names, like Mega Boo and Big Boo, that's why I suggested a review, what do you think Doc von Schmeltwick?Sorbetti (talk)

It's hard to cleanly split these in particular with the Mario Party 3 detail. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:30, March 5, 2025 (EST)

I understand perfectly, however I think this was a specific error in Japan since in other languages it is known as Big Chomp only, also I would not be surprised by this confusion since it was the first entry of the Big Chomps to that series, however unlike the Shark Chomps of the Yoshi franchise, these only have that name in Japanese, while Sharks chomp have different names in both Japanese and other languages, another thing to add is that after these erroneous representations, no Big Chomp has been called "biggu wan wan" again, its last representation was in Yoshi's New Island where it acts as a shark chomp

Also, a detail is that in Mario Party 3's duel mode, when the chomp grows and does the "Yoshi Island Squash" attack, it seems more like an incoming chomp to me because of the way it attacks and the name of the attacktake a lookSorbetti

I wouldn't say that was an "error," it was the only name they had for large Chain Chomps at the time. That duel mode Incoming Chomp comparison is interesting, I was unaware the attack actually had a name. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:44, March 6, 2025 (EST)

then it makes more sense, as it was the only name for a large-sized chomp they used it, but since NSMBW they created the name for Big Chomp (deka wan wan), so I think it really deserves a division, currently the name (Biggu wan wan) is not used for the Large Chomps and the last time it was seen was in Yoshi New Island fulfilling the characteristics of a Chomp Shark, by the way I don't know if the name of the attack is official, I will continue investigatingSorbetti (talk)

Do you think a future proposal for division would be correct?Sorbetti (talk)

Split Shark Chomp From Big Chomp

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Wednesday, April 16, 2025, 06:41 GMT

This merge happened 3 years ago, so I am bringing a proposed division with new information and comparisons with other divisions.

One of the arguments to keep them merged was the Japanese name given to large Chomps in Super Princess Peach and Super Mario Party 3, but these names had no support in other languages where they are only called Big Chain CHomps, also you can understand why the use of this name in both games given that it was the only Japanese name at that time for large chomp, and since New Super Mario Bros Wii Deka Wanwan has been its established name until the most recent games and the name Biggu has not been used again

The name Biggu Wanwan has only been used at present for the Big Chomp of Yoshi Island, this has been used in Yoshi New Island which is the Yoshi game with the inclusion of this most recent character, not counting that in the video game WarioWare Move It he is still called Shark Chomp

Also all this without mentioning that the name Shark Chomp has had support in all other languages apart from Japanese, giving them a differentiation

Yeah, but the name means the same thing, so why would we have to separate them, right? Well, a while ago it happened that Mega Boo was separated from Big Boo for having different names in Japanese and for having a different name in Mario Portal, so if we have a unique name in Japanese for this individual, and we have unique names in the last appearances, we should separate them, although for my part I would consider the appearance of Super Princess Peach and Super Mario Party by Big Chain Chomp and not by Shark Chomp

Proposer: Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: March 30, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Split and move Shark Chomp data from SPP and SMP3 to Big Chain Chomp (Support)

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.

Split and maintain Shark Chomp information from SPP and SMP3 (Support)

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.

Leave it as is(Oposse)

1. Nintendo101 (talk) The reason why Japanese names are often held as important bits of information is because those names are less removed from the people who created and designed the enemies, so they often denote categorical intent. The names in Japan promote the impression that the Big Chain Chomp and Chomp Shark, regardless of how they have been localized into English and other languages, are supposed to be same subject, at least for how the wiki currently treats names like "Biggu" or "Deka" for other large enemies.
2. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per Nintendo101.
3. LinkTheLefty (talk) What gets me is that this'll break up the variants unevenly. Chomp Shark and Incoming Chomp are both described as giant Chomps, but because a "Big" Chomp debuted later, they'll be considered variants of Chain Chomp instead. Just doesn't look right to me.

Comments

@Nintendo101,These enemies, unlike this case, are located as the same subjects in all other languages except Japanese, and they do not even present different features between them unlike Big Chain Chomp and Shark Chomp, also if they had the same name in Japanese Nintendo still sees them as different enemies through the Yoshi games, and even rambling in some Japanese pages, the Japanese themselves have these two enemies separated from each other, since they list the appearances of Yoshi Island, Yoshi Island Ds, Yoshi New Island, SMP3, SPP as appearances of Shark Chomp (Biggu Wanwan, while from Wii onwards appearances of Big Chain Chomp (Deka Wanwan)Sorbetti (talk) 17:59, March 16, 2025 (EDT)

@LinkTheLefty Look, what I'm saying may sound strange but this is how I understood it, yes Shark Chomp is a Big Chain Chomp, I don't deny that, but it's more complicated than that, Shark Chomp is the first appearance of a Big Chomp, it's a Chomp of large proportions but at the same time it's not a Big Chain Chomp, do you understand me?

Let me explain it another way, the Chomp Sharks are Large Chomps but they are not Big Chain Chomps, yes Deka and Biggu mean big but they are not the same subject, if you want I could add an option to divide subjects but keep the first appearance of Big Chain Chomps is Yoshi Island with the appearance of Shark Chomp, so you understand better, both are Giant Chomps but they are not the same subject, and this is obvious with the fact that until the most recent game of their appearance (2023) they still have different namesSorbetti (talk) 21:22, March 16, 2025 (EDT)