MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/74

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Change "(game)" identifier to "(arcade)" on the articles of Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr. and Mario Bros.

Do not change 1-5
I wouldn't consider "game" to be the best identifier for the arcade games Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr. and Mario Bros. There's already a Game and Watch game that shares its title with each of the arcade games, but "Donkey Kong" is the name of various other games too! There's the tabletop game, the Game Boy game, the Nelsonic Game Watch game and the slot machine. I know the slot machine is technically an arcade game, but it's not a standard cabinet like the 1981 arcade game. "Game" is a broad identifier, especially for Donkey Kong. Shouldn't a "game" identifier only be used if there's no other game with the same name? That's why we use consoles for identifiers instead, such as Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Wii) and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Nintendo DS).

Proposer: Kaptain Skurvy (talk)
Deadline: February 22, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

1. Nintendo101 (talk) Those articles also cover the game's release on Famicom, NES, Atari, etc., so "arcade" would not be a holistically accurate identifier.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Nintendo101; "arcade" is kind of a misnomer when the non-arcade ports are covered on them.
3. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per Nintendo101.
4. PaperSplash (talk) Per ThePowerPlayer's comment.
5. Rykitu (talk) Per all

Comments

Maybe "arcade game" would be a decent compromise? PaperSplash (talk) 18:02, February 8, 2025 (EST)

What about Dr. Mario? That game also has a separate release also called Dr. Mario.--PopitTart (talk) 18:24, February 8, 2025 (EST)

The reason why the games Donkey Kong and Dr. Mario should keep their identifier of "(game)" is because those are by far the most popular and commonly thought-of games under their respective titles; the other articles (aside from Donkey Kong on the Game Boy) are on much more obscure devices while being clearly separate from the original game. To put it another way, "Dr. Mario (game)" is what people are looking for when they think about "the game featuring Dr. Mario"; meanwhile, you'd be forgiven for not knowing that the Gamewatch Boy game even exists at all. ThePowerPlayer 22:15, February 8, 2025 (EST)

what about Donkey Kong (1981)? — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 18:39, February 9, 2025 (EST)

That would work for Donkey Kong, but the original Mario Bros. and the arcade game of the same title were both released in 1983. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 12:49, February 12, 2025 (EST)

Standardize the use of "English", "English (United States)" and/or "English (United Kingdom)" as languages in game infoboxes

List largely identical American English localizations as simply "English" 1-7-3-1
So far, the use of "English (United States)" and "English (United Kingdom)" as language identifiers in game infoboxes on this wiki has been rather inconsistent and arbitrary, to say the least. While Nintendo is typically known for providing distinct English localizations for the United States (and other English-speaking territories in the Americas) and the United Kingdom (and other territories where Commonwealth English is standard, apart from Canada), the actual differences between them, if any, have varied over time.

Historically, many Nintendo games have featured minor English text differences between their releases in the Americas and Europe/Oceania; however, these were typically not wholly separate localizations to account for the differences between American and British (or Commonwealth) English – they tended to follow American English conventions for the most part regardless. Rather, they were simple amendments made by Nintendo of Europe to Nintendo of America's existing English scripts, usually either to rectify perceived shortcomings or to modify certain terminology based on internal preferences. These versions were typically stored separately on region-specific cartridges or discs, with occasional differences in how they were labeled in internal data.

Later, during the DS, Wii, 3DS and Wii U eras, more distinct localizations specifically for the United States and United Kingdom that also accounted for regional language differences became more commonplace. However, all of the aforementioned practices have largely faded with the advent of the region-free Nintendo Switch, where games now typically release simultaneously worldwide on identical cartridges. As a result, English scripts are now more often than not also identical across regions (or at most contain only very minor differences, such as the date format used; in many cases, the date format is the only difference), though they are still almost always stored and labeled separately in internal data, typically alongside each other.

This proposal aims to determine how we should handle cases of identical or nearly identical (American) English scripts between regions when identifying languages in game infoboxes. Should we list them both as "English (United States)", simply as "English" or adhere to how they are distinguished in internal data, even when actual differences are minimal?

Proposer: PaperSplash (talk)
Deadline: February 23, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: List largely identical American English localizations only as "English (United States)"

1. PaperSplash (talk) My third choice. I mean, when it really is just American English, I can see the argument.

Option 2: List largely identical American English localizations as simply "English"

1. PaperSplash (talk) My first choice. I think it's the best compromise that makes the most sense, all things considered.
2. Hewer (talk) I feel like this way is the most straightforward and accurate.
3. CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) I mean, if it’s just the same thing and no changes (assuming it doesn’t include dates for save files), then I guess this one makes the most sense.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) Primary option. It's the simplest, it seems reasonable enough, and is applicable across the board; while it isn't exactly in-line with how Nintendo is handling things as of the Switch era, it's reasonable enough and can easily account for pre-Switch cases very well.
5. Jdtendo (talk) Per all. Especially if that means that we will stop using "English (United States)" for games that use a variety of English that is not specifically American and weren't even released in America such as SMBTLL or Mario & Wario.
6. LadySophie17 (talk) Per all.
7. OmegaRuby (talk) Per all.

Option 3: List both "English (United States)" and "English (United Kingdom)" if distinguished in internal data, otherwise simply list "English"

1. PaperSplash (talk) My second choice. When internal data classifies them that way, it could make sense to follow suit...
2. Camwoodstock (talk) Secondary choice, as this seems to be Nintendo's official methodology as of the Switch; however, this exact rationale doesn't account for situations like, say, Mario Party 8 and its infamous recall in the UK, which predates Nintendo's official distinguishing of NA English and UK English from the Switch era, leaving us at a bit of a loss for how to handle it exactly.
3. CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) This option could also work if date formatting is different despite the game itself using the same script for the US and UK/Australia, like Mario & Luigi: Brothership.

Option 4: Do nothing

1. CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) I’m actually surprised no one put anything in this option kind of like the title mentions “Do nothing.”

Comments

For better accuracy, "British English" should probably be "Commonwealth English." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:13, February 8, 2025 (EST)

Noted. Though I decided to focus mainly on the terminology used in game infoboxes, as I realized this wiki's use of the term "British English" is effectively its own can of worms... PaperSplash (talk) 15:35, February 9, 2025 (EST)

I'm a bit confused what this proposal is trying to change. Is it just about terminology used in game infoboxes? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:31, February 9, 2025 (EST)

In hindsight, I realized this proposal was trying to change too many things at once, so I decided to tidy things up and focus on just the game infobox terminology for now. PaperSplash (talk) 15:35, February 9, 2025 (EST)

Realistically even though Canadian English does use British/Commonwealth spelling most of the time, they just get US English spelling in games as Nintendo groups Canada with North America and their English is pretty similar to English in the US, so Nintendo products in Canada are just the same as in the US.

In this case why don’t we also just group American English and Canadian English into one and call it "North American English" even if it’s moreso mainly American English? CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) 10:45, February 11, 2025 (PST)

I'm not quite sure exactly what point you're trying to make here, but per the documentation for the "languages" template, the reason they're labeled the way they currently are in game infoboxes is because they're the primary markets American English and British/Commonwealth English localizations are made for. And for what it's worth, whenever Nintendo specifically labels "North American English" as a selectable language whether in-game or in internal data, they usually refer to the United States or US specifically, not North America/NA as a whole. PaperSplash (talk) 16:27, February 11, 2025 (EST)

I think I’m going with the fact that the English (United States) language for Nintendo is also intended for Canada (and it’s also applied onto the "Japan" and "Hong Kong/Taiwan/South Korea" regions on the Switch) despite just using American English. Kinda like with European French where although it’s just moreso referring to Standard French/French from France, it’s intended for all French-speaking regions in Europe (France, Belgium and Switzerland). CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) 14:58, February 11, 2025 (PST)

If Nintendo is also still adding English (United Kingdom) for their games despite there being almost no differences from the North American English versions aside from date or other words if needed, why do they keep American spelling? Wouldn’t it make more sense for British English spelling to be used even if it’s one of the only differences between English (United States) and English (United Kingdom)? CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) 22:00, February 12, 2025 (PST)

Less work for something ultimately unimportant, I guess? It's not like American spelling is unintelligible to non-Americans. Anyway, what does this have to do with the proposal? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:39, February 13, 2025 (EST)

Just came up to me somehow on the topic of American English and British English. Not as big of a problem anyways but just hit me. CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) 7:37, February 12, 2025 (PST)

I don't work for Nintendo nor do I know anyone personally who does, so I can't exactly say for sure. But my best guess is that they simply don't feel like they need to anymore. The main problem with Nintendo not having separate US and UK English localizations before was that certain words considered offensive in the UK but not the US would show up in Nintendo of America's localizations that were also going to be largely reused in Europe, as seen with Mario Party 8 and Super Paper Mario. But now such words appear to get caught and edited out during Nintendo of America's initial English localization pass, like "welcher" in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions, "bugger" in Super Mario RPG and "bummer" in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. Also, it seems that ever since at least Paper Mario: Color Splash or so, Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe have been working together more closely on English localizations from the start, as a couple English localization staff at NoE are now often also credited on NoA localizations and vice versa. With any potentially problematic words (regionally or otherwise) now seemingly being addressed much earlier on, there's no longer a really good reason they need to otherwise address differences between American English and British English during the localization process that would justify the extra time, effort and pay. While I'm sure it was appreciated by some, as Hewer mentioned, most people in the UK are used to reading and hearing US English and can understand it just fine (and the same goes vice versa to a lesser extent). It's not like Spanish where many Latin Americans genuinely struggle with understanding Spaniard slang and sometimes vice versa. As for why they still store UK or “EU” English scripts separately from the US ones in internal data despite being them being almost or outright entirely identical now, I think part of that is a remnant of the previous generation where more distinct localizations stored in folders labeled by both region and language was the standard (and it makes it easier for them to port over the more distinct localizations from older games whenever they bother doing so, like Mario Kart 8's for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe). But I think the other reason is to make it easy just in case something actually still needs changing between regions, most commonly the aforementioned date formats. Because that can be legitimately confusing, since they would essentially be backwards otherwise by the other region’s standards. PaperSplash (talk) 19:56, February 14, 2025 (EST)

Add the namespace and anchor parameters to {{iw}}, {{wp}}, and {{fandom}}

canceled by proposer
The {{iw}}, {{wp}}, and {{fandom}} templates are missing the namespace and anchor parameters. In this case, I'm just wondering if there's a possibility to add those parameters.

The new parameters for the templates are as follows:

• ns – Used for inserting namespaces.
• a – Used for inserting anchors.

Here are both what the templates will look like and some examples for the ns and a parameters:

{{iw}}

[[:{{{1}}}:{{#if:{{{ns|}}}|{{{ns}}}:}}{{{2|}}}{{#if:{{{id|}}}| ({{{id}}})}}{{#if:{{{a|}}}|#{{{a}}}}}|{{{3|{{{2|{{{1}}}}}}}}}]]

{{iw|strategywiki|Gravity Rush|ns=Category}}

Gravity Rush

{{iw|jiggywikki|Banjo-Kazooie|a=Gameplay}}

Banjo-Kazooie

{{wp}}

{{iw|wikipedia|{{#if:{{{l|}}}|{{{l}}}:}}{{#if:{{{ns|}}}|{{{ns}}}:}}{{{1}}}{{#if:{{{id|}}}| ({{{id}}})}}{{#if:{{{a|}}}|#{{{a}}}}}|{{{2|{{{1}}}}}}}}

{{wp|Nintendo 3DS|a=3DS family comparison table}}

Nintendo 3DS

{{wp|WikiProject Video games|ns=Wikipedia}}

WikiProject Video games

{{fandom}}

{{plain link|https://{{urlencode:{{{1|www}}}}}.fandom.com/{{#if:{{{l|}}}|{{urlencode:{{{l}}}}}/}}wiki/{{urlencode:{{{2|Main Page}}}{{#if:{{{id|}}}| ({{{id}}})}}{{#if:{{{a|}}}|#{{{a}}}}}|WIKI}}|{{{3|{{{2|}}}}}}}}

{{fandom|spongebob|Incidental 6|a="Chocolate with Nuts"/"Chocolate with Nuts: Puppet Edition!"}}

Incidental 6

{{fandom|spongebob|Battle for Bikini Bottom|ns=Map}}

Battle for Bikini Bottom

If this proposal passes, then we'll be able to add the ns and a parameters to the {{iw}}, {{wp}}, and {{fandom}} templates. It's important to tell about the extra parameters can be handy. That way, we won't need to worry about inserting both either the <namespace> or the # on the first parameter and displayed text on the second parameter.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: March 10, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: Add the extra parameters

1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal.

#Super Mario RPG (talk) Gives us more options for cases where we might need it.

Oppose: Keep as is

1. Nintendo101 (talk) This is not necessary, and potentially further complicates piping and templates where it is not necessary. The current system is intuitive and helpful enough as is.
2. Waluigi Time (talk) It's already possible to do this without making these changes.
3. Arend (talk) Per all + see comments. How is it any more beneficiary for us to type Incidental 6|a="Chocolate with Nuts"/"Chocolate with Nuts: Puppet Edition!" when Incidental 6#"Chocolate with Nuts"/"Chocolate with Nuts: Puppet Edition!" still works just as fine AND takes less time to type? Similarly, how is Battle for Bikini Bottom|ns=Map any more beneficiary when you can simply copypaste Map:Battle for Bikini Bottom to get the same result?
4. EvieMaybe (talk) per Arend
5. Sparks (talk) Per all.

Comments (wiki linking)

IS it really necessary? Typing out {{iw|bulbapedia|File:0001Bulbasaur.png}} to get you to link File:0001Bulbasaur.png works just fine... rend (talk) (edits) 16:05, February 24, 2025 (EST)

It really IS necessary to me. Typing out {{iw|bulbapedia|0001Bulbasaur.png|ns=File}} to get us to link 0001Bulbasaur.png works better than either typing out {{iw|bulbapedia|File:0001Bulbasaur.png}} to get us to link File:0001Bulbasaur.png or {{iw|bulbapedia|File:0001Bulbasaur.png|0001Bulbasaur.png}} to get us to link 0001Bulbasaur.png because it will take a short time to type out what works better. GuntherBayBeee 18:50, February 24, 2025 (EST)

In the example you provided, {{iw|bulbapedia|File:0001Bulbasaur.png}} takes fewer characters to type than {{iw|bulbapedia|0001Bulbasaur.png|ns=File}}. How does the latter take a shorter amount of time to type out if it is literally longer? - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:14, February 24, 2025 (EST)

...I think I get it. GuntherBayBee basically wants an easy way to provide a link to an interwiki file page without showing the namespace in the link (as in without repeating the file page for the piping), but failed to convey this properly in his proposal. Still unsure if it's truly necessary in the long run though. rend (talk) (edits) 19:36, February 24, 2025 (EST)

Include the show's title in home media releases of various Mario cartoons where it seems to be intended

Rename home media release articles 8-0
Okay, the title may be a bit confusing, so let me aloborate myself.

The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World all have home media releases that include various episodes on a single VHS or DVD. Most of these releases are named after an episode included within it, with the show's name/logo appearing before it, however, we seem to omit the show's name for no reason?

I've got an example here. This VHS here is clearly intended to have the title The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!: The Bird! The Bird!, as evidenced by the cover. However, we've just title the article as The Bird! The Bird! (VHS) which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Home media releases of Donkey Kong Country have it like this. So why are these different?

Now, of course, if the title of the show is clearly intended to NOT be a part of the title, then we won't include it.

Proposer: Kaptain Skurvy (talk)
Deadline: March 3, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on February 24th, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!: Per all!
2. Arend (talk) Per the Kaptain. I've made this same suggestion in a prior proposal on doing the inverse.
3. Jdtendo (talk) For consistency.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the proposal Arend mentioned; this seems to be how the official releases are titled, so we should follow suit.
5. Fun With Despair (talk) I see no reason not to do this. It only serves to improve clarity, and the show's title is almost always on the actual cover of the home media anyway.
6. Killer Moth (talk) Per proposal. This just makes sense for consistency.
7. Pizza Master (talk) Per all.
8. Rykitu (talk) Per all

Comments

I'd also like to say that The Biggest Ever Super Mario Bros. Video doesn't appear to have its full (or correct) title either, as I explained here. The front of the box states The Biggest Ever Video: The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, and the back of the box calls it The Biggest Ever Super Mario Bros. Super Show Video. rend (talk) (edits) 13:15, February 19, 2025 (EST)