Talk:Trash Can

Will this be updated to add Arcade GP info? The Mario Kart Series Items template is there, yet there's nothing about the item in Mario Kart. 24.99.96.92 22:02, 3 May 2014 (EDT)

"Official name"

Page 25 of the Mario vs. Donkey Kong instruction booklet calls it a "Garbage Can", and Page 16 of the Game Boy Donkey Kong instruction booklet calls it a "Trash Can". Where did "Bin" come from? LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:46, 9 October 2014 (EDT)

Name

Shouldn't this be moved to Garbage Can, seeing as how that's the most recent North American name and "Bin" is an old PAL name? Niiue (talk) 07:19, 27 December 2015 (EST)

The name "Bin" comes from the digital manual of Donkey Kong -- well, the 3DS PAL Virtual Console edition. Therefore, it is more recent than "Garbage Can". -- -- KOOPA CON CARNE

Is it a completely new manual, or is it a scan/recreation of the old game's manual? Hello, I'm Time Turner.

It is not a scan; it is completely new. The object in question is named differently in both editions of the manual (i.e. in the old one, it's called "Trash Can", whereas it is renamed "Bin" in the latter manual). Then again, I only own the PAL version of the game on 3DS, whose manual is the one I am comparing to the older, North American manual. There might be mere regional differences, in which case I'd say we immediately change the article's name to "Trash Can". -- -- KOOPA CON CARNE

Split Bin and Bucketman

Template:SettledTPP Template:ProposalOutcome For starters, this page doesn't seem to have a specific focus. So far, it covers an inanimate object, an enemy, a different inanimate object from another game, and a Mario Kart item. Besides, there really isn't any good reason to have an object merged with its enemy counterpart, especially when both have unique Japanese names.

Proposer: Niiue (talk)
Deadline: August 29, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Niiue (talk) Per proposal.
2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) Per General Subject guidelines, this should certainly be split. The enemy is a living trash can, the object is just a trash can.

Oppose

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) The current article covers the subject adequately enough (barring the Mario Kart Arcade GP appearance, which should really be a much higher priority split since it's very obviously an entirely different item). For one thing, we actually have two Japanese names for the obstacle version, and apparently the only difference between the two is that one can't be picked up and the other can - so why not go all the way and also include both in the proposal since that would seem more like an "all or nothing" case? Second, the garbage can is animated in the GBA Mario Bros., so separation on the basis of whether or not it's inanimate doesn't strictly work out. Third, the object just isn't that remarkable on its own - the fact that there are some that move is exactly what makes it noteworthy. Fourth, keeping the merge saves us from piling on yet another foreign tag to the wiki that'll absolutely never get cleared, which is ideal whenever it can be helped. All in all, this is fine - let's work on the Mario Kart item instead.
2. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) Per all.
3. Pseudo-dino (talk) Per LinkTheLefty.

Comments

However this plays out, I definitely agree to splitting the Mario Kart item. No proposal needed, let's just give it its own page whenever possible. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 15:13, 15 August 2017 (EDT)

I'll create that soon, then. Niiue (talk) 20:41, 15 August 2017 (EDT)

Split the object and the enemy: Take 2

Template:SettledTPP Template:ProposalOutcome This article is still an unfocused mess, and the page for the Arcade GP item has still not been split. Having the enemy (enemies? Japanese material calls them different things, so it could be a Dōryī vs. Tane Pakkun situation, but in this case, they look virtually Template:Media link.) is basically the same as having Wendy's pinch-happy pennies in the same article as the generic Coin, or having Fake Block in the same article as Brick Block. If they're significantly different, particularly when that difference involves life or lack thereof, they should be in a separate article. I'm not sure what the enemy article would be named, whether it would be "Bin (enemy)" or "Bucketman."

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
Deadline: January 5, 2018, 23:59 GMT Cancelled: December 22nd, 2017

Split enemy from object

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per proposal.
2. Niiue (talk) Per Doc.

Comments

Why are we using "Bin" anyways? Sure it's more recent, but haven't historically American English names taken precedence on here over European English names as of about 5~ years ago? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:11, 22 December 2017 (EST)

Couldn't we have opened a discussion first? The previous proposal wasn't really that long ago, and nothing major has changed about this article except for some Super Mario Odyssey information. We could've reached a better consensus on what should or shouldn't be in the article. I agree that the Mario Kart Arcade GP item should've easily been split by now, which I thought was already addressed last time. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:20, 22 December 2017 (EST)

That never happened though, from what I've seen. And quite honestly, just the fact that we have other "enemies disguised as objects" as separate articles is a valid enough point to just skip straight to the proposal. In my opinion. Honestly the last proposal seems to have mostly flown under the radar, what with only having 5 votes. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:30, 22 December 2017 (EST)

For the record, I was going to split the Mario Kart item, I just wanted to find a picture of it first. Niiue (talk) 15:34, 22 December 2017 (EST)

If anything, it should be more comprehensive than the last one, because the article is indeed getting bloated. For example, did you know that the Waste Basket slot from Super Mario RPG has the same name as the Bin in the Japanese version? It could be added to this article, but it contributes to the lack of cohesion to have it in the same space that includes any inanimate one, the occasional enemy, the Mario Bros. Battle object, the Mario Kart item... I think we could start talking about how these subjects should divided up rather than diving right back into the same exact proposal that looks at only one part of the article. I mean, the proposal states outright that there's no decision on which name to go with in the split article - ideally, you want to know how things are going to look ahead of time. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:48, 22 December 2017 (EST)

That sounds all right, I suppose. Who do I talk to to go about cancelling? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:50, 22 December 2017 (EST)

At this point, you can cancel it yourself if you want. 15:51, 22 December 2017 (EST)

How do I do that? I checked the main proposal page, but it didn't tell me enough. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:56, 22 December 2017 (EST)

You just change the TPP template the top to {{SettledTPP}}, mark the proposal as canceled with the proper {{ProposalOutcome}}, and add a link to this proposal on the talk page archive. 15:59, 22 December 2017 (EST)

OK. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:08, 22 December 2017 (EST)

Time for thoughtful discussion

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OK, the Kart item was agreed to be split. It hasn't yet due to lack of images, which is a problem with modern arcade games it seems. Anyways, we have what amounts to the Trash Can variation of a Fake Block, Poison Mushroom, or Penny, along with inanimate trash cans that can be used as platforms, inanimate trash can's with even more vastly different purposes, all under the generic name of "Bin," with absolutely no cohesion to the article. We need to work out what is going to be split, what is going to stay, and what names and/or identifiers to be used for each. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:17, 22 December 2017 (EST)

At this point, I'm inclined to believe we should just split it all. I'm thinking the basic inanimate object from Game Boy Donkey Kong and Mario vs. Donkey Kong can be named Bin since that's unique (and maybe include Super Mario Odyssey since it's close enough), the animate Mario Bros. Battle object can be named Garbage Can, and the Mario Kart Arcade GP item can be named Trash Can. All these subjects fulfill different roles and have different characteristics. Waste Basket from Super Mario RPG could be a new article as well. As for which name to use for the enemy - why not use both? Bucketman for the Game Boy Donkey Kong and Dust Man for Mario vs. Donkey Kong. The difference is that Mario can't pick up a Bucketman but can pick up a Dust Man, which is part of the reason why others like Monkikki / Monchee and Dōryī / Tane Pakkun got split. Keeping the enemy merged does save having to pile on some more perpetual foreign language tags, but that can't really be helped now. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:42, 22 December 2017 (EST)