View source for User talk:Mister Wu/Archive 1

{{Welcome|Boo4761}}

==Trick==
You should crop out your pics.

BTW, I'm very conflicted if I should upload animated gifs. On one hand, it illustrates the tricks better, but on the other hand, it would REALLY destroy the loading time of this page. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:59, 20 September 2015 (EDT)
:I will crop the pics, except in the examples of the talk pages in order to show where they were taken. Regarding the gifs, those work well with MK8 as MKTV allows slow motion and in Time Trials Replays the "rear" point of view can be chosen. You might try a dedicated orphan page and see what happens. At the moment I don't have the software to create gifs from clips, so I would need suggestions about this aspect.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:06, 20 September 2015 (EDT)
::No, I mean, I'm [http://www.mariowiki.com/Gallery:Mario_Kart_Wii#Character_select_idle_animations able to create animations directly from the source] in Mario Kart Wii. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 17:08, 20 September 2015 (EDT)
:::Ah, ok! Well, this is not something I can really do, but anyway I will finish the section on the talk page so you will see what I mean.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:21, 20 September 2015 (EDT)

== Minor Question ==

In <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_%26_Luigi:_Paper_Jam&oldid=1933432 this revision]</span> of the ''Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam Bros.'' article, you state that <blockquote>"PAL" is a standard that is not followed by European 3DS games!</blockquote> If European 3DS games do not use the PAL format, which format do they use, then? What is your source on this? {{User:RandomYoshi/sig}} 06:40, 7 January 2016 (EST)
:There is a technical matter here, but [[Wikipedia:PAL|PAL]], which means "Phase Alternating Line", is a color encoding system used for analog television signals. In Europe and other parts of the world, the NES, SNES, N64, GameCube, Wii and, in part (when you use the analog output), the Wii U have to follow this standard, and the games for those consoles are said "PAL versions" (although in the case of the Wii U digital output is supported and therefore "PAL version" is not really precise). All Nintendo portable consoles actually never followed this standard because their screens are directly controlled by the console and the PAL encoding for the transmission of video is not needed (in particular, the articles [https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+3DS+Teardown/5029 here] and [https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+3DS+XL+2015+Teardown/36346 here] show the ribbon cables used to transmit the video signal in the case of the 3DS and new 3DS XL). This is why "PAL" version makes sense only in the context of home console games and less so in the case of the Wii U.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 08:44, 7 January 2016 (EST)
::Just so you know, currently, this wiki uses "PAL" as shorthand for the [[Glossary#P|European and Australian region releases/localizations]], hence it was being used for a handheld game in the first place. A [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_43#Replace_.22NTSC.2FPAL_version.22_with_.22American.2FEuropean.2FAustralian.2FJapanese_version.22|recent proposal to scrap the term]] was met with a lot of opposition even though we're using the term (and NTSC), more broadly than its technical definition, since there's no other way to really succinctly talk about the different groups of countries: we just have to make do with what we got. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 09:47, 7 January 2016 (EST)
:::Ok, sorry, I didn't understand what was the proper use after the proposal failed. I think that someday an alternative should be found because with the arrival of HDMI PAL will be less and less used.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:50, 7 January 2016 (EST)

== Nintendo Badge Arcade Image Uploads ==

I think you duplicated images. Check [[Gallery:Nintendo Badge Arcade]]. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 21:40, 6 February 2016 (EST)
:That's a deliberate decision. The new images have a higher resolution and some of them were actually already uploaded and are appearing as duplicate. If you want, we can decide before changing the gallery which ones to use. For consistency and resolution, I prefer the new set.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:43, 6 February 2016 (EST)
::OK. I thought you were unaware somehow. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 21:57, 6 February 2016 (EST)

== Quiz show ==

I'll do the talking around here. I think I'll just ask you a couple of questions. Questions only the Super Mario Wiki contributors could answer. Wanna answer some random questions? [[File:Toco Bell.png|x35px|link=Special:Contributions/Toco Bell]] [[User:Toco Bell|Toco]] [[User talk:Toco Bell|Bell]] [[File:Pinhead Larry.jpg|x35px|link=Special:Editcount/Toco Bell]] 16:46, 6 March 2016 (EST)
:The way you put it doesn't seem that enticing... if you go personal I won't answer for sure on a public page ;-)!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:06, 6 March 2016 (EST)

==Your table in the Mario Kart Wii article==
An actual stats table for [[Mario Kart Wii]] is a very great thing to have in MarioWiki, but unfortunately [http://www.mariowiki.com/Mario_kart_wii#Actual_stats how it's formatted also needs to be taken into account]. The words are tiny in an attempt to accommodate the size of it, but even so, it side-scrolls in even 1680x1080 resolution, the resolution I use and a pretty wide one at that. It's pretty much unreadable and for any web-design, you want to avoid side-scrolling at all costs. [http://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=29237.msg1822927#msg1822927 Walkazo's suggestion] or even [http://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=29237.msg1823218#msg1823218 what my twin said] should maybe be taken into account, as I think we need to reformat the table asap. By the way, I don't mean to offend in that post, it's just that counter-productive design bugs me. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 13:08, 28 March 2016 (EDT)
:Don't worry at all! I 100% agree with you, side scrolling must be avoided, and I was hoping that someone with knowledge on MediaWiki gave me some help (by the way, I am using a 1920 x 1080 resolution monitor, so if at lower resolutions, such as the very common 1366 x 768, some layouts are broken in pages edited by me, tell me!)! Are there specific code strings we might use? Or should we split the table in sub-tables (eg.: one table for each of the menu stats)?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:06, 28 March 2016 (EDT)
::I'm not too knowledgeable about creating tables. Maybe you can variations of it in your sandbox page and fool around with what you got. I do like the sub-table idea, maybe that could work. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 19:27, 28 March 2016 (EDT)
:::I thought about it, maybe I could transpose the table and split it by weight class and, if needed, even vehicle class (karts and bikes). I might try a spreadsheet and [http://marianogappa.github.io/mediawiki-table-utility/ this tool], do you know if it is reliable?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:51, 28 March 2016 (EDT)
::::Maybe you could split it by weight class, but I don't see how that will decrease horizontal size (those values after all are vertically oriented), unless you want to overhaul it and make the karts column-oriented instead of stats instead, and then split the weight classes and maybe even split the types of vehicles too, considering that they handle differently and have different mechanics. I don't know if the spreadsheet is reliable, never used it myself before. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 19:57, 28 March 2016 (EDT)
:::::Yes, transposing means that each vehicle becomes a column. This way, having many rows won't be an issue, and we can safely decide how many columns we want (having them split by vehicle type and weight type means we will never have that many columns). I might try it if you want.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:02, 28 March 2016 (EDT)
::::::Yeah sorry for my lack of vocab skills lol. I'd like to see you work with it. :) {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 20:07, 28 March 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Ok, I created in the page a transposed table split by size. Is it fine?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:17, 28 March 2016 (EDT)
::::::::I've looked at it and it's fine in this current resolution, buuut I haven't checked lower ones. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 17:30, 29 March 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Thank you for checking! If you have reports of troubles at lower resolutions, please tell me, and in this case I will split also by vehicle class (karts and bikes). Should I also transpose the characters' bonuses table?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:43, 29 March 2016 (EDT)
::::::::::I suggest you should in order to keep consistency. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 17:28, 30 March 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::::Done! Thank you for all the suggestions! If you have other issues or suggestions, please tell me!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:28, 30 March 2016 (EDT)

==My proposal==
I have [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Proposals&diff=1974052&oldid=1974030 reset the votes] after the draft template has undergone a change that has both options now being choices. Perhaps you should consider voting again? Sorry for the inconvenience. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 11:00, 19 April 2016 (EDT)
:Done! Don't worry, it is still a proposal I agree with!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:34, 19 April 2016 (EDT)

==Rio Olyimpics==
some new footage appeared don't know if you saw them yet<br>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIX9v1FSUgI
<br>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7_WQS2toMw [[User:Marc|Doctor Marc]] ([[User talk: Marc|talk]])
:Thanks! I definitely didn't see it!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:19, 7 May 2016 (EDT)

No Problem :) [[User:Marc|Doctor Marc]] ([[User talk: Marc|talk]])

==Adding Stat Table==
Great job adding the event stat table for the Wii U version of ''[[Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (Wii U)|Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games]]''. This will come in handy. [[User:AfternoonLight|AfternoonLight]] ([[User talk:AfternoonLight|talk]]) 22:38, 20 July 2016 (EDT)

== Re: Paper Mario Color Splash Info ==

Not a problem. When I saw your summary explaining that the Koopalings were already mentioned under the Boss section, I understood what the point was. I mean I do believe Risa mentioned that they'd all be bosses in the game, so that does confirm their status, but it's true that we should leave it as it is until we physically see the other Koopalings in game, especially since we don't know if they'll all play the same boss status that Morton plays (some could be mini-bosses, some could be partnered up to protect Paint Stars, who knows. Just a few guesses). Anyway not a problem, I understand your point and it's all fine. {{User:Tails777/sig}}

==Re:Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash==
[http://imgur.com/a/Wg4Le This is not good image formatting, heads up.] {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 18:09, 5 September 2016 (EDT)
:I definitely agree! What would be the best solution? Use of <nowiki>{{br}}</nowiki>?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:34, 5 September 2016 (EDT)
::How about a gallery? I think that would be the best organization for a cluster of images like this. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 18:35, 5 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I had to readapt the text separating the Ultra Smash and putting it in its own section, but in this particular case in which the text is only composed of sentences and doesn't include lists, tables and other objects the gallery can effectively work.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:06, 5 September 2016 (EDT)
::::Hmm it's better than the last effort, but there's something I still don't like about the gallery, there's too much text in the images. Perhaps a table is better? Sorry about the hassle, this is all experimentation. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 00:16, 6 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::I now created the table and even added the buttons that need to be pressed to execute the shots. If there are other improvements to be made, please tell me!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:24, 6 September 2016 (EDT)

== Blue Bowser art ==

Hey Mister Wu! I had a question about the [[:File:BowserSMBart.png|blue Bowser art]], because I know you're big on this kind of stuff. Do you know the exact source of the artwork? Whether it was a flyer, some instruction page or other kind of official media? I was just really curious. If you're not sure, I'll ask the original uploader and see if they remember.

Thanks,

{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 12:07, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:Unfortunately, I would like to know the source too, as I want to understand if it was just one of the first Bowser's designs (because the hair is still yellow and the eyebrows still black, and in Miyamoto's artwork for SMB Bowser was bluish) or if it was indeed an artwork for Blue Bowser, that judging from the Encyclopedia might be a separate character from Bowser impostors.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 16:25, 10 September 2016 (EDT)

Ah, bummer! Thanks anyway Mister Wu. If I can't find out from the original uploader, I might post an update in your "Artwork hunting" thread on the forums.

{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 06:50, 11 September 2016 (EDT)

Hey guess what, I found it! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261604576271 

{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 19:35, 12 September 2016 (EDT)
:Thanks a lot! By the looks of it, it seems a recolor of the Japanese SMB: TLL Bowser's artwork seen [[:File:SMBLL_flyer.jpg|on this flyer]]. I would hardly be surprised if the box was made after the Japanese version of SMB: TLL, even though it doesn't seem to have a date on it. Anyway, this definitely means it's not a Blue Bowser's artwork, just an artwork with the same colors of the SMB Bowser.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:53, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

The listing says it was released in 1986, although we can't be sure whether that was the first or second half of '86, since TTL was released around the middle of that year. Let's hope a specific month of release for that modelling kit turns up somewhere, and then it should be determinable which art was based on the other.
{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 20:17, 12 September 2016 (EDT)
:Interestingly, the Bowser artwork seen in the SMB: TLL flyer can also be seen in the [[Media:SMBSpecial.jpg|cover of ''Super Mario Bros. Special'']], even though we don't have a clear release date for that game too.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 14:09, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

== Re: Sorry ==

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, but it really wasn't that big of a deal. I didn't take the edit nor your comment personally in any way, so there's nothing to worry about. I appreciate the added insight, but everything's good. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:55, 21 September 2016 (EDT)


== ''Paper Mario: Color Splash'' sprites ==

Hi Mister Wu! I have been wondering how you extract the sprites from the page you get them from, since there's a mushroom pattern in the background and when you try to save or click on an image, the entire page zooms in. Also can't wait for the official Larry Koopa sprite!!! --[[User:Sergio-Yoshi|Sergio-Yoshi]] ([[User talk:Sergio-Yoshi|talk]]) 20:48, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
:You have to click on "Download this Sheet". To extract single sprites from the sheet with GIMP:
:# use Rectangle Selection to select one of the sprites - in the case of PMCS, you have to select the '''whole''' rectangle containing the sprite, as sprites such as Draggadon's full body ones fill the entire rectangle and you cut a part if you don't select the whole rectangle
:# copy and create a new image from the copied image (Edit - Paste as - New image)
:If the sprite reaches the borders of the rectangle, like in Draggadon's full body's case, save the image in PNG format with max compression, if the sprite doesn't reach the borders, do the following to save space:
:# on the new image use the Fuzzy Selection - with Threshold set to 0, no Feather Edges and no Antialiasing - on the background (remember to have the "Select Transparent Areas" checked if the background is transparent)
:# invert selection (Select - Invert)
:# copy and create a new image from the copied image
:Save the image in PNG format, with max compression and you will create a sprite like the ones I upload.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:17, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

::Could you please upload the [[Pokey]] and [[Green Pokey]] full body sprites? :/ I prefer you to do so, you're acknowledged in doing such a thing. This is the link to the page: [https://www.spriters-resource.com/wii_u/papermariocolorsplash/sheet/84148/] --[[User:Sergio-Yoshi|Sergio-Yoshi]] ([[User talk:Sergio-Yoshi|talk]]) 14:05, 5 November 2016 (EDT)
:::You can find the sprites here: [http://www.mariowiki.com/File:PMCS_Pokey.png Pokey] and [http://www.mariowiki.com/File:PMCS_Green_Pokey.png Green Pokey].--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:58, 5 November 2016 (EDT)

== Koopaling Color Splash sprites ==

Is having 5 different sprites of Iggy or Ludwig from Color Splash really necessary? {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 23:19, 15 October 2016 (EDT)
:It depends on the Koopaling, as in the case of Iggy and Larry there are sprites relevant for the physical appearance section, I'll just leave those, the introductory pose and the idle pose sprites.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 06:47, 16 October 2016 (EDT)
::I mean, I'd like to keep as much sprites here as possible ideally, but we just don't allow too much sprites from one game or people will get the wrong idea and upload as much single-pose sprites as they can, something we want to avoid here, to not clutter gallery sections of articles. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 18:55, 16 October 2016 (EDT)
:::If you want, I can keep just the introductory and idle pose without wand, that are common to all Koopalings (2 poses per Koopaling). Other images will be included elsewhere (like in the case of the Koopalings Cards) or cited in references (in the same way I'm doing for Iggy).--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:00, 16 October 2016 (EDT)
::::That's fine. I'm sorry if I sounded a bit confrontational there, just concerned. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 20:27, 16 October 2016 (EDT)
:::::Don't worry, you know my opininon on these sprites, so it's easy for me to go overboard with them.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:16, 16 October 2016 (EDT)
::::::By the way, since we are already talking about the matter, how do you feel about animated GIFs as idle poses (essentially, 2 frames animated like they are in the game)? I tried this for Wendy (which was important to show how she behaves in the battle), and admittedly due to the lack of shading the palettization works pretty well, without artefacts, and they are pretty easy to do also for the other paper characters. Still, I don't know if there might be performance concerns (these are probably the first high resolution GIFs on the wiki and I'm using the replace method in GIMP to maintain a transparent background).--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:36, 16 October 2016 (EDT)

== Animated Sprites ==

Will you be making animated idles and such of all characters and enemies?--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 22:02, 14 November 2016 (EST)
:This is quite time consuming, and [[User:Sergio-Yoshi|Sergio-Yoshi]] is doing some work too, we should coordinate the effort.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:05, 14 November 2016 (EST)
::Cool. Though I recommend that each frame be 0.7s long, which is more accurate to the frame rate of sprites in the game. I've uploaded a few, like the Bloopers and Petra Piranha.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 22:11, 14 November 2016 (EST)
:::I will record a video when I will have the game so we can finally see the right timing. All my sprites so far had 2 fps (0.5 s) as typical times for idle animations, so try to see if those fit before using different timings, and if possible I'd recommend to keep the projects of all your GIFs so that once the correct timing is known changing it is trivial.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:19, 14 November 2016 (EST)
::::Actually, just watch a YouTube video in 60fps, that's how I figured it out. And I use Photoshop, so I can open any gif up to edit it.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 22:27, 14 November 2016 (EST)
:::::I mean that I will use frame-by-frame methods, I too so far used 60 fps YouTube videos, and even slowed them to 0.25x speed to see the correct order of the various sprites. Fortunately, I could confirm that the game has a resolution of 1280 × 720 pixels (you can see this by looking at the sprites of the backgrounds that introduce the characters), meaning I will be able to record 60 fps videos too, although the game actually should run at 30 fps. As image editor I actually use GIMP, I still prefer to keep the original projects around, even if GIMP too can load and edit GIF files.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:56, 14 November 2016 (EST)
::::::I may actually be wrong. I think I got my math wrong or something. That or the framerate is different fore each sprite.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 10:13, 15 November 2016 (EST)
:::::::We will see with the actual videos. By the way, since [[User:Sergio-Yoshi|Sergio-Yoshi]] is too busy, I don't think I will be able to do all the work, as I'm already involved in many projects in this wiki. I think it's better for me not to promise another effort I won't be probably able to make. So, for the moment, I'll just say that I don't plan to upload all the animated sprites, as it would be too much work. I'm sorry if that comes as a disappointment, but I think it would be much worse to end up with a work stalled at a quarter of all the sprites, resulting in an arbitrary selection of sprites that have animations.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:35, 15 November 2016 (EST)
::::::::That's fine. I'll be making the animated sprites then as the need for one comes about.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 21:17, 15 November 2016 (EST)
:How are we going to do animated sprites of enemies like [[Paint Guy]] or [[Spike Guy]] that have those non-sprite things on their heads? --{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 00:04, 17 November 2016 (EST)
::I don't think there is a simple way, we will use artwork or screenshots for these enemies (maybe artwork is better, the Large Enemy Cards are a good second choice, too).--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:03, 17 November 2016 (EST)
:::For the time being, I'll just make gifs out of gameplay footage for those kinds of enemies. --{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 19:11, 17 November 2016 (EST)

== APNG vs. GIF ==
Although I understand that APNG is far superior to GIF, they were banned [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 36#No APNG Files|in a proposal]] years ago. [[:File:PMCS Ludwig Animated.gif]] and [[:File:PMCS Ludwig Animated.png]] --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 03:30, 19 November 2016 (EST)
:I'm not using this image at the moment, it was just to test the infrastructure of the wiki that supports it in full, with the exception of the thumbnail generator. This is a particular situation, that should be fixed either way (by fixing the thumbnail generator or adding a warning message that animated png should be forbidden.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 03:43, 19 November 2016 (EST)
::There are two competing formats to replace GIF: [[Wikipedia:MNG|MNG]] and [[Wikipedia:APNG|APNG]]. Neither of them are supported by the major web browsers (Google Chrome has a plug-in for APNG). Even if MediaWiki could support the format fully, the browsers are lacking. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 04:52, 19 November 2016 (EST)
:::Technically, APNG images in .png files are supported by every browser that supports PNG files, the first frame is correctly decoded and shown by those. This is why APNG images in .png files are not the same as .apng files. The aim of that image was verifying up to which point the current infrastructure prevents or supports them, and the end result is that they are supported and, as expected, even shown by browsers that don't support .apng files (the first frame is shown). Since there is not a clear situation on these images, that are technically acceptable unlike .apng files, I think a discussion on the latter should start, either to clearly state that they should be avoided (currently in the policy there is only a list of preferred formats, not forbidden ones) or to state that unlike .apng files they are acceptable provided the first frame is significant enough. Should a proposal be made?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:53, 19 November 2016 (EST)
I revived the discussion: [[User talk:Porplemontage#APNG Revisited]] --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 06:08, 11 November 2017 (EST)

== card type ==

That doesn't seem necessary. It's not important to the bestiary to know that the bosses each have a corresponding card, which ONLY  applies to the bosses. What is important is knowing what cards an enemy drops, which is the point of the cards variable. I should change that to say cards dropped.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 10:24, 12 December 2016 (EST)
:However that information has NOTHING to do with the bosses themselves, when it comes to battle atleast. They can't be obtained from the boss themselves, they aren't an enemy drop.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 10:32, 12 December 2016 (EST)
::Yes, it has. You can obtain the card only after the boss has been defeated, so it is battle related, simply you need a second passage (Roshambo Temple), which is why the R was added.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:36, 12 December 2016 (EST)
:::"You need to include card type and the boss cards, because otherwise you will remove relevant information that then needs to be found in nonobvious places, if it can be found at all)"
:::That's why we have the [[Battle_Card_(Paper_Mario:_Color_Splash)|Battle Cards]] page.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 10:40, 12 December 2016 (EST)
::::We might argue that all the enemies cards should not be listed in the bestiary, then. It's not a line of thought I would follow. Again, since it's simply a letter and since after winning the battle you get a boss enemy card, provided that you first go to the appropriate Roshambo Temple, I think these should be included.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:51, 12 December 2016 (EST)
:::::It's not entirely the same line of thought, there's one difference: The Boss cards aren't drops.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 10:56, 12 December 2016 (EST)
::::::Nothing forces us to only list the cards dropped, especially since the boss cards can be won at the Roshambo Temples only after winning the battle, thus they are a direct consequence of the battle, much like items dropped.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:01, 12 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::As I understand it, the bestiary deals with the enemy stats in battle, which includes the items dropped. We don't add the things that defeating the enemy will unlock else where in the game. I'm sorry I'm playing the antagonist here, but I really don't this kind of information belongs in the bestiary.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 11:05, 12 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::Don't worry, if I remember correctly, this is the first time something like this happens, a divergence of opinions is normal because it's unknown territory; I think it's best to talk about the issue in the bestiary talk page or in another related page (e.g. the game's main page) so that we see the feedback of others on the matter and we reach a consensus.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:11, 12 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::::Go right ahead.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 11:58, 12 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::::Sorry, at the moment I'm busy. Meanwhile, could you please check the bestiary of [[Super Paper Mario]]? It too had enemy cards, sone of which were not directly obtained from the enemies.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:16, 12 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::Please see [[List of Catch Cards]] page. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 11:30, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::::::From what I can tell the SPM bestiary doesn't list any catch cards unless they are obtained via a drop by that enemy. In fact, I think any info relating to the catch cards, other than as a item drop, was removed from the bestiary because of the Catch Cards page.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 11:38, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::::Enemies don't drop Catch Cards of themselves, unless the [[Catch Card]] or [[Catch Card SP]] is used. Enemies may drop them those items normally, but they never drop their own Catch Cards. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 11:42, 13 December 2016 (EST)

== Super Mario Run - Hand drawn images ==

You've been uploading SMR gifs from Nintendo UK twitter account recently. There's some gifs you've missed. Mario wall-jumping, and Mario doing a long jump. <br>
Wall-jump: https://twitter.com/SuperMarioRunJP/status/806407915955359744 <br>
Long jump: https://twitter.com/SuperMarioRunJP/status/807132693741727747 <br>
Know that these sketches are from the official [https://twitter.com/SuperMarioRunJP SuperMarioRun account]. All the SMR sketches from Nintendo UK / Nintedno of America are actually came from the SMR official Twitter, and posted in before NOA/UK.<br>
{{User:Infinite8/sig}} 20:47, 12 December 2016 (EST)
:Thanks! So far I've used one source which is simpler for me and also allows to see the text that goes with the image, but if these two posts aren't uploaded on the Nintendo UK Twitter feed, I will definitely add them!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:06, 12 December 2016 (EST)

== Mario Trump cards ==

Wait, don't upload them just yet. I'll replace the images on the page with a series of links so you  can just click each one and they'll all have the same naming format.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 17:44, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:I was just about to undo that edit, since I moved it to my sandbox instead. Again, just send me the raw scans and I'll take care of it.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 18:11, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::Wait a moment, in the meantime, I suggest to use the name format and technical aspects (borders, saving as PNG, 1:2 resized, no other changes) of [http://www.mariowiki.com/File:NAP-01_A%E2%99%A3.png this card], using Unicode codes for the suits.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:16, 13 December 2016 (EST)

:::Hey Mister Wu. I think it's best that we don't use symbols and other specialized characters within the names of the files, as enforced by our [[MarioWiki:Image use policy|image use policy]].

:::{{User:Shokora/sig}} 18:25, 13 December 2016 (EST)

::::Ah, I figured that wasn't right. We can use the file naming format I came up with. NAP-01 ClubAce.png--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 18:30, 13 December 2016 (EST)

:::::Not really, already moved the card [http://www.mariowiki.com/File:NAP-01_A_Clubs.png here] to fix this.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:35, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::::If you use the format like this <code>NAP-01 ClubAce.png</code>, that means that all the cards Ace, 2-10, Jack, Queen, and King, all fall under their respective suit, Club, Diamond, Spade, or Heart, which then all fall under their respective deck, NAP-01 - NAP-06.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 18:38, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::If you want to go with your format, I'd suggest using a space after the name of the suits, so the suits are more distinguished from the general names (Ace, 2-10, Jack, Queen, King).--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:46, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::Alright. Now are you going to be uploading the scans to a google drive account or dropbox or something?--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 18:48, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::::This is a public page, so I'll use WeTransfer Plus (the files are 7.1 GB total, since I scanned them at the max resolution of 1200 dpi to have some headroom also for other kind of analyses, such as the one on the printing method I did for the Hanafuda cards, resizing at half resolution is needed to upload the cards since they are physically bigger than the Hanafuda ones and as a result end up being larger than the 10 MB limit, but I wouldn't go further than that) with a link that expires. In fact, once you confirmed that the images have been downloaded and are fine, I'll delete the file I sent you so it doesn't get used for unlawful purposes.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:58, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::::Ok, do it now.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 19:01, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::Here are the cards. I added also the back of the cards for each deck, it is meant to be added before the table of each deck, either on the left or on the right, with a caption. As soon as you downloaded them and checked that everything is fine, tell me and I'll remove the file and the link as well.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:16, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::::::I can't download it for some reason. The download keeps giving me an error. Maybe try a different service?--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 19:35, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::::Just tried and it works for me, the download was successful and the files were there. What kind of error are you getting?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:33, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:I don't recall. I'll try again but if it keeps happening, try uploading to mediafire.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 20:37, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:I'm just going to download them all individually.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 21:05, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::the link should lead to a zipped file, though. Are you able to download the single images individually?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:09, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::I can download it as zip, or download the PNGs inside it individually.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 21:11, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::If you can download the single images, that's fine as well. Tell me if you get other errors.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:13, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::::Okay, if I try to download multiple at once, all but the latest download will encounter an error. Put this up on mediafire, please.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 21:15, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::::Can you rescan these? I've only seen the first two scans so far and you really cut it too close on the borders. If not, maybe we can see about mailing them to me and I can get them scanned right, and then I'd mail them back.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 21:25, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::The scanner cuts the borders, but the same borders do not contain any image, I might rescan filling the cut borders on the scanner, but it will probably take me a few days. At the moment I cannot afford mailing those so either you're fine with the current status or I'll have to rescan the cards.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:42, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::Just rescan the cards that got the borders cut off, the ones that weren't cut will still be alright.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 21:52, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::::Btw, why can't you mail the cards? If it has to do with money I'd be willing to pay. Also the scanner I use scans everything on a black background, which would make this easier.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 21:55, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::::Really, I think it's better not to get involved with international mail or couriers and if we don't involve money transactions as well, it's just too risky and expensive for so little reward. I'll just rescan, using 600 dpi so hopefully I will also have less artifacts due to how the cards were printed. The 1200 dpi images are too large to be uploaded on the Wiki anyway. Meanwhile, I'm uploading the 1200 dpi scans to MediaFire so at least you will be able to see them and get prepared when the 600 dpi scans without cut border will arrive.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:09, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::I might have to do some color correcting too, since scanned images lose their color. These scans look desaturated almost.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 22:13, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::::::I would avoid that, actually, thanks to the lack of color correction I could more easily spot the differences in the printing method used for Mario Hanafuda cards (more saturated, also uniformly colored areas) with respect to Club nintendo Hanafuda (less saturated, the colored areas present various elements), color correction optimized on the individual cards doesn't allow to evaluate that as they would appear having the same saturation, which does not reflect how they appear in real life (even looking at the cards you can immmediately tell the Club Nintendo Hanafuda are less saturated and use different colors). The only way to make it work on the Mario Trump cards would be applying the same settings on all the cards, wihtout using automated correction routines.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:30, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:...what?--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 22:32, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::I mean, typically color correction is  done to optimize single images, which is not a smart choice when you scan cards that are desaturated with respect to others, as you can increase the saturation and make them look different from what they look in real life. One thing is fixing systematic errors on all images, one thing is fixing each image, creating huge artifacts by making them uniformly saturated even if some cards are actually less saturated because of how they were printed. If you intend uniformly fixing some systematic errors with the scanner (white point, brightness, saturation, contrast), I'm fine with this, but if you're going to change the brightness, saturation, contrast or white point correction of only one deck because you think its colors do not match those of the others you might risk creating artifacts instead of fixing problems due to the scanner. The settings of the scanner are always the same in each scan so as to avoid introducing bias, and the scanning conditions tends to be as similar as possible as well. In general, I think that if you find some cards that, after the common corrections, still seem to have issues it is better to discuss them so we can verify if the issues are actually features of the card themselves.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:04, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::Ok. just let me know when the mediafire link is ready.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 23:08, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::::If I did everything correctly, the files should be uploaded here, they are still being uploaded, though. I have to go to sleep now, so we'll discuss further matters tomorrow.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:35, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::::I just started the download, it'll take awhile, but it's going in bulk atleast.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 09:58, 14 December 2016 (EST)
::::::You can remove the link now.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 21:02, 14 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::Done.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:04, 14 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::The idea I have now is using a border of Mario Hanafuda cards to keep the cards aligned while also being in the center of the scanning area, you can see the results [http://www.mediafire.com/view/iz6l812c7kmv86f/NAP-01_1_600dpi.png here], would this be fine?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 08:38, 15 December 2016 (EST)
:::::::::Yeah, that seems like it'd work. course I can make sure each card is level in photoshop and fix it, but at least now we get the whole cards. Question: Should I add transparency at the corners, or leave the white background?--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 16:46, 15 December 2016 (EST)
::::::::::I know you can make it level, which is indeed a good idea, having them aligned a bit avoids lots of losses due to bad angles (although admittedly the resolution is so high that we might even not worry much about that, in the worst case of 45° rotation we would have around 600/1.414 dpi, so around 424 dpi) so if I can do it without wasting time using the Hanafuda cards I'll try to do it, otherwise I will just take them to the center of the scanning area and scan them. You can add transparency in all the areas that are not part of the card, if you can do so without losing much time. Ultimately, only the corners would be affected, but it's an elegant way to display cards with rounded borders for sure. If you kept the link to the directory, I might gradually add the scans there. My time zone is CET, so expect some uploads in awkward moments.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:16, 15 December 2016 (EST)
:No, you can handle the Hanafuda cards and I'll do the Playing Cards, just because if all the alight adjustments I may do. I'll be doing +50 saturation for the NAP-01 cards, and I'll be uploading all cards at 25% their original size.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 17:25, 15 December 2016 (EST)
::Actually, there's no need to resize, I've already reduced the resolution in the scanner, if you want to reduce it more it's better to do that at the scanner level so the scanning is faster and the file transfer is faster as well. I'm fine with 600 dpi but if you think this is too much for the wiki I can set it to 300 dpi or even 150 dpi, just tell me your preferred resolution.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:46, 15 December 2016 (EST)
:::I just think the cards don't need to be at a full resolution on the wiki, not that it's too much. Can you scan the backs and give me those at 600 dpi, 300 dpi, and 150 dpi, just so I can compare them?--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 18:29, 15 December 2016 (EST)
:::Also scan them with a black sheet of paper behind the cards!--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 18:36, 15 December 2016 (EST)
::::I don't have the black sheet of paper, if you want a dark background I can scan with the lid open; anyway samples at 300, 200 and 100 dpi have been uploaded, with 300 dpi the cards have a resolution of around 700 x 1060, I think this might be the sweet spot we should aim toward, considering we also have CGI artwork and the NAP-04 deck that has level maps with fine details in the NSMBU part. Also, I would check the histogram of the images to see if increasing the saturation leads to clipping in some color channels.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:12, 15 December 2016 (EST)
:::::I think instead I will crop the cards to just the printing area, this will be faster.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 21:14, 15 December 2016 (EST)
::::::In the end I rescanned all the decks and also the back of the cards and the additional explanatory cards for the 30th anniversary decks (the 25th anniversary decks don't have them), you can find the files in the MediaFire folder, they have the 300dpi or 300dpi_def suffix.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:16, 16 December 2016 (EST)

== RE: APNG Optimizer (usable both with still and animated PNG) ==

I did see that in the proposal prior to you mentioning it directly to me. That checks that off the list of issues with APNG:
*Entry barrier creating APNG files (GIMP?)
*<s>Optimization</s>
*Widespread browser adoption
*MediaWiki handling
The biggest hurdle is browser support. I don't see [[Wikipedia:Microsoft Edge|Microsoft Edge]] adopting APNG (I consider it IE12). I use IE11 because I never understood the bandwagon towards Firefox and Chrome, although they are nice browsers, just overblown by their fans. All anti-IE things are based off of IE6, which I can understand the hatred, but anyone still arguing that IE is trash is oblivious to the improvements Microsoft was attempting, starting with IE7. IE11 is actually up to par compared to the earlier days. I digress. I do want APNG to happen here on the Wiki with as little issue as possible, but right now, I have to go against it. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 21:36, 16 December 2016 (EST)

==RE: A few questions about what the Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia says about the Koopalings ==

I noticed it, yeah, and here's what I understand about the lines you want to know about.<br>
1. I managed to roughly translate it as "Turtle Tribe rulers including Bowser. The Koopalings are an example."<br>
2. No, this seems to be an erroneous description based on Ludwig's sprites. While the title calls him "Bowser's comrade", I see no reference to him being the oldest.<br>

Happy new year to you too! [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 07:34, 31 December 2016 (EST)
:Actually, from what I checked, "offspring" seems to have its own words (not kanji, but kanji combinations) from "child", and I saw none of those used in the scans. Better keep it simply as "children", if you want to avoid unwanted implications. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 10:09, 31 December 2016 (EST)

== UNO Super Mario ==

Good work on the page, now for the table to display the cards. Like before with the Mario Trump cards, the table should probably show off everything so that it fits into a single screen, no scrolling. Actually, you can re-use the table in Mario Trump since its the same size: 4 suits of 13 cards each, not including the others cards. Anyways, I've written up the full list of file names I'll be uploading to, and this time it's not up for debate; there will be the names I use, and I'd like for them to stay that way. I'm a stickler for uniformity.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}}
{|
|
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_1.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_2.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_3.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_4.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_5.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_6.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_7.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_8.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_9.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_0.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_Draw.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_Reverse.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Yellow_Skip.png]]
|
*[[:File:USM_Green_1.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_2.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_3.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_4.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_5.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_6.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_7.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_8.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_9.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_0.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_Draw.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_Reverse.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Green_Skip.png]]
|
*[[:File:USM_Blue_1.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_2.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_3.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_4.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_5.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_6.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_7.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_8.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_9.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_0.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_Draw.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_Reverse.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Blue_Skip.png]]
|
*[[:File:USM_Red_1.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_2.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_3.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_4.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_5.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_6.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_7.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_8.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_9.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_0.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_Draw.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_Reverse.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Red_Skip.png]]
|
*[[:File:USM_Wild.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Wild Draw.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Invincible.png]]
*[[:File:USM_White.png]]
*[[:File:USM_Back.png]]
|}

== RE:Nintendo UNO ==

I could scan the cards for [[Nintendo UNO]], sure! Currently working on a different project, creating the [[List of Mii Headgear]] page, so I'll get to the cards once I'm done with that. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 11:55, 5 January 2017 (EST)
:I'm requsting [[:User:Alex95]] to upload the cards after they scan them.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 11:23, 7 January 2017 (EST)

== Image Replace ==

<gallery>
MK8 Electrodrome Video 2.gif|You uploaded this recently
MK8 Electrodrome Alternate Screen.png|Please get a rip for this
</gallery>
I see you uploaded something for [[Electrodrome]] from Modeler's Resource. Can't find it there. Can you replace the image I am linking you to? --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 20:38, 7 January 2017 (EST)
:The images generating the videos are not on The Models Resource because the giant screens are objects that are not part of the course model. The image you pointed to shows indeed a frame of the second video, if you want me to replace with the frame, I can do it, but it's a 160 x 90 resolution frame, so it's very small and more difficult to look at, which is the reason why I didn't immediately delete the image even though at this point it has been superseded by the vidoes.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:47, 7 January 2017 (EST)
::Let's try anyways. There is always zoom in web browsers and we can always revert if there are issues. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 20:54, 7 January 2017 (EST)
:::Done. If there are issues, please tell me.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:24, 7 January 2017 (EST)

== Mario Kart 8 Koopaling billboards. ==

Hi.

I noticed you've done Koopaling billboards from Mario Kart 8. Might as well ask, does Wendy have her own billboard, and if so, can you upload the picture and any other information on it? [[User:Weedle McHairybug|Weedle McHairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle McHairybug|talk]]) 21:32, 11 January 2017 (EST)
:Hi Weedle, unfortunately, Wendy doesn't have her billboard yet. She appears in the Women of Racing signs, along with other chareacters, but this isn't actually her company. The name of her company was derived from the map on Super Bell subway, which is already uploaded here.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:39, 11 January 2017 (EST)
::Care to direct me to the map on Super Bell subway? I can't seem to find it on here other than a screencap that partially cuts off the map. [[User:Weedle McHairybug|Weedle McHairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle McHairybug|talk]]) 06:18, 12 January 2017 (EST)
::Never mind, I found it. Though I did make sure to list it as a source, since it really didn't list it there beforehand. [[User:Weedle McHairybug|Weedle McHairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle McHairybug|talk]]) 06:24, 12 January 2017 (EST)

== MK8DX Image Uploads ==

There are duplicates floating around with your recent uploads. Check it out:
*[[:Category:Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Images]]
*[[Special:ListFiles/{{BASEPAGENAME}}]]
Just tag the JPEGs for deletion. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 04:18, 27 January 2017 (EST)
:I know that they are duplicates, and of course the intention was to replace the upscaled JPEG images with the source images, the problem is that each of the JPEG images has multiple links to it, this is why I didn't immediately tag them for deletion, the links must be redirected before.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 08:27, 27 January 2017 (EST)
::I now redirected the links and tagged the images as images to be deleted.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 08:53, 27 January 2017 (EST)
:::Yeah, those multiple links are a pain to deal with when going from JPEG to PNG (proper shift, just like the proposal on-going I have). I just wanted to be absolutely sure you knew about that. I find that a lot of new games are hard to keep track of, which I think we should withhold the uploads until something can be finalized before being committed to the wiki. The rate of which information is getting released and the chance for misinformation spreads contributes to desyncs like this. It feels like the articles are being treated like temporary news articles. 2-4 weeks seems reasonable to me to make sure things are certain. Article creation, we can deal with that on the spot. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 18:13, 27 January 2017 (EST)

==Mario Sports Superstars bar graph==
Hey there, I'm wondering if there's a way to translate the bar stats [[:File:MSS amiibo Golf Luigi.jpg|such as those used in this card]] into readable wiki format, like how you did for the [[:Template:RioWiiUstats|Mario & Sonic Rio stats]] table, as well as incorporating them into the table [[Mario_Sports_Superstars#Captain_stats|as in this article]], as it's currently incomplete because it doesn't list star or superstar stats. Just for clarification in case you don't understand the bar stat colors: red is initial starting stats, blue is stats when you Star a character, and yellow is when a character is a Superstar character, a tier over Star. Stat with blue arrows going back mean the stat is decreased when the character is starred.

If you're too busy to help out at the moment, I understand. I just want a better way to convey visual information like these to our readers. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:12, 13 February 2017 (EST)
:I like the idea, for the stats that increase, this should be doable without many problems, while for the stats that decrease, it will be a bit more difficult; I will have to see if there is code to easily obtain the arrow shapes. Regarding when I will be able to create the template, this is less clear, as these are busy days for me, I don't know if I will be able to obtain anything interesting before the second part of this week at least.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:37, 13 February 2017 (EST)
::I do have an idea for stats that regress when it is starred. The stats affected that are downgraded can be semi-transparent, similar to how some games portray a decrease in stats like Equipment in ''Super Smash Bros. for Wii U''. Is that possible to do? {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 18:16, 13 February 2017 (EST)
:::This can be used if no solution similar to the cards will be viable. Anyway, I just discovered that [http://www.w3schools.com/charsets/ref_utf_geometric.asp the left pointing triangle is an HTML symbol], so we might indeed obtain graphs similar to those of the cards with some coding insanity. If we manage to obtain the symbols on the left (sports and stats) and on the right (wear/equipment), we might also add those, but I will likely proceed gradually.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:42, 13 February 2017 (EST)
::::Could you check if [[Template:MSSStats|this template]] works as intended?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:42, 13 February 2017 (EST)
:::::I love you Mister Wu. Thanks a lot for helping me out, I can't write templates out of a paper bag. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 23:37, 13 February 2017 (EST)
::::::Anyway, here's an example I did for Mario's stats:

{{MSSStats
|FirstStatsName=Power
|FirstStatsN=7
|FirstStatsS=8
|FirstStatsSS=9
|SecondStatsName=Speed
|SecondStatsN=7
|SecondStatsS=7
|SecondStatsSS=7
|ThirdStatsName=Technique
|ThirdStatsN=7
|ThirdStatsS=8
|ThirdStatsSS=9
}}
{{br}}
::::::Luigi's golf stats
{{MSSStats
|FirstStatsName=Power
|FirstStatsN=1
|FirstStatsS=6
|FirstStatsSS=7
|SecondStatsName=Impact
|SecondStatsN=8
|SecondStatsS=6
|SecondStatsSS=6
|ThirdStatsName=Control
|ThirdStatsN=9
|ThirdStatsS=7
|ThirdStatsSS=7
}}
{{br}}
::::::Having problems with displaying "1" and lower stats for Luigi's power, unless I did something incorrectly. Impact and control seem fine.
:::::::Two mistakes I had made: the blue arrow part was meant to replace the red bars part while I put it after, and in the case of the first stat only the last rectangle was relative to the first stat, the first nine rectangles were colored red according to the normal second stat and blue according to the star first stat! It should work now.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:17, 14 February 2017 (EST)
::::::::Thanks so much!! I'll try implementing the table now into the article, I'll report any more problems to you if I find any. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 14:20, 14 February 2017 (EST)
:::::::::Hey! I implemented [[Mario_Sports_Superstars#Characters|the stats into the table!]] It looks fine, except I want a way to center the stats. Is that possible? That's the only real problem I have for it at the moment. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 14:59, 14 February 2017 (EST)
:::::::::Additionally, I think a legend is required to explain what the stats mean. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 15:09, 14 February 2017 (EST)
::::::::::The centering must be done at a template level, so I modified the template. Regarding the legend, in the case of Mario & Sonic I added the number that generated the bar, if you want I can add a small table with the numbers, either on the left or on the right.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:34, 14 February 2017 (EST)
:::::::::::Well I just want the legend on the main ''Mario Sports Superstars'' article near those tables, so people don't initially get confused by the colors of the bars, like how I did when I first saw it. The orientation of the legend should be either centered or on the right side. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 17:38, 14 February 2017 (EST)
::::::::::::I don't know if that's really what you wanted, but I added an explanation of how the stats are presented in bold before the tables themselves. If you have other questions about the template or changes to be implemented, feel free to ask.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:12, 14 February 2017 (EST)
::::::::::::::Not really. I want a table a bit [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive|like in this page]], on the right, where you list the bar type on the cell color, and you explain it on the right. Also, there's a bug with highlighting. If you highlight the template, you can see blank areas of highlight. This is problematic for highlighting text underneath the template. Try it out yourself, you might see it. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 19:46, 14 February 2017 (EST)
:::::::::::::::I created the table. Furthermore, I found how to make the background behind the rectangles transparent in the template, maybe this was causing the problem with highlighting?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:24, 14 February 2017 (EST)
::::::::::::::::I still see highlighting problems whenever I try highlighting the area of the template. The small blue highlighting marks indent and expand further from the visible part of the template. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 20:27, 14 February 2017 (EST)
:::::::::::::::::I checked the generated HTML code and some of the blank spaces appear to be bugs related to MediaWiki. It inserts some line breaks without any particular reason to do so. If you remove the line breaks in the corresponding parts of the code, they sometimes persist - resulting in a worse to read code without particular benefits. If you already had similar bugs I would like to know how to prevent those.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:42, 14 February 2017 (EST)
::::::::::::::::::Ok, thanks for letting me know. I guess we'll just leave it like that for now. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 00:44, 15 February 2017 (EST)
:Maybe you could talk to an admin about using custom SVGs in place of the pictures or what's used above. For the record, I didn't read any of the conversation above.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 20:29, 21 February 2017 (EST)
::When I made the template I had followed my previous one that couldn't use SVG files since it was a bar of length defined by a passed variable, SVG files might be a solution to try if you want gradients like in the amiibo cards without using workarounds that might not work an all browsers.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:37, 23 February 2017 (EST)

New problem, the size of the bars causes side-scrolling at the resolution of the computer I'm currently using in the main Mario Sports Superstars article (caused by a stat name that's too lengthy). You may need to shrink the bars a bit to accommodate. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:46, 23 February 2017 (EST)
:I made the bars three quarters of their original size. Please check the alignment with the text, with my browser I had to set the bars at a suspicious relative top position of -0.25em and I want to know if this is due to the browser or to the web standards - in the first case I'll immediately remove this offset.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:37, 23 February 2017 (EST)

==Congratulations==
Congratulations on becoming a patroller! --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 16:22, 21 February 2017 (EST)
:I'm here to say the same thing! {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:38, 21 February 2017 (EST)
::Thanks a lot! Honestly, your help in the broadest sense has been incredibly valuable (and even when going into the specifics, in the case of Baby Luigi it was often the very source of my contributions!), I didn't receive such a promotion all by myself! I actually still am not fully sure I'm up to the role...--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 16:55, 21 February 2017 (EST)
:::It's a bit overwhelming at first to suddenly get all of these permissions and new found power but you'll eventually learn to adapt. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:57, 21 February 2017 (EST)
::::Now is the time to go mad with power {{User|Marshal Dan Troop}}
:::::Better not, some pages were already in danger before... ;-)--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:44, 23 February 2017 (EST)
You're a patroller now? Congrats for your promotion! [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 04:37, 22 February 2017 (EST)
:Thanks, I want to thank you for all the collaborations and discussions we had! Don't be hesitate even a moment to continue those when you want to!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:44, 23 February 2017 (EST)
Congrats {{BASEPAGENAME}}! I wonder what it takes to get promoted... --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 01:26, 24 February 2017 (EST)
:Thanks! It has been interesting to discuss with you, also on the technical matters. Regarding the second part, well, I don't know much more than the [[MarioWiki:FAQ#How do I become an admin?|FAQ]], actually...--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:44, 5 March 2017 (EST)

== Categories ==

Not sure if you realized this, but your recent uploads have left the {{tem|uncategorized}} template added. I don't think there's a specific category for those images, other than the ones the licensing template gives out. You can just remove them if no specific category can be used. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:37, 4 March 2017 (EST)
:When the category is unknown to me I typically leave that template so that other users can suggest me a proper category, this was the case as well. In this case, I wonder how much that portal is going to stay, if it is something permanent that is going to be updated with more content, we might consider making a category for it.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 06:52, 5 March 2017 (EST)

== RE: Just to inform you on the Koopalings' "case" ==

I was actually thinking that if Nintendo copy-pastes SMB3 manual story again somewhere with explicit reference to Koopalings as Bowser's kids, then we could reorganize the relationship section. I thought it would go like: SMB3 and related referencial material, where the familial relationship is clearly stated (and noting expections like Encyclopedia and Wii VC site); material both before and after Bowser Jr's debut, and the "current story". Also, since we have pretty much covered almost everything relevant, I think the section should be summarized while new stuff should be added simply as references. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 07:38, 8 March 2017 (EST)

== Reply ==

They've been reuploaded.
--[[File:Alien_Bunny_Sprite.png|25px]][[User:L151|<font color=purple><big>'''L'''</big></font color>]][[User Talk:L151|<font color=pink><big>'''151'''</big></font color>]][[File:Onnanoko_transparent_WC98.png|20px]] 11:21, 12 March 2017 (EDT)

== RE: Scans of the manual from the Famicom version of Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels ==

The scans are found [http://imaikami.sakura.ne.jp/mario2/mario02f.html here]. It doesn't contain all the pages, but it's still distinct enough from SMB manual which it's compared to. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 05:41, 22 March 2017 (EDT)

== Curious ==

Out of curiosity, how does one change the color of their username for things like recent changes? Is it a power that only applies to administrators? I don't really plan on doing it, but I'm curious.<br>
{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 12:29, 24 March 2017 (EDT)<br>
P.S. Congrats on your promotion. I think you'll hold the title of Patroller well.
:Thanks! You're correct, the special colors in the various lists reflect the status of an user, you can see the top of the [[Special:RecentChanges|Recent Changes]] page to see their meaning.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:34, 24 March 2017 (EDT)

==Koopaling Sponsors==

Hi there, sorry about the trouble I accidentally caused earlier regarding the Koopaling Sponsor image file names, I was just trying to improve the file names of all the sponsor images in the gallery. I'm really sorry about the spaces stuff though, for some reason I had it in the back of my mind that I had read somewhere that it was preferred that spaces were not included in file names, but I have no idea where I got that from now. Anyway, I'm really sorry and I'll make sure that nothing similar happens when I go through the remaining few images with differing sponsor names.

On a different note, I have a couple more sponsor images to upload, which I'll probably do tomorrow evening, but amongst the current ones waiting to be uploaded I have a pair of Morton Construction logo variations from Ice Ice Outpost. I was going to name them "MK8-MortonConstruction3.png" and "MK8-MortonConstruction4.png", but after what happened, do you think that there may be a better name for them? You seem to know more about the Koopaling sponsors than me, I just thought I'd ask. (They're obtained from the Models Resource, cropped, rotated, and one of them's flipped, if that information is needed to come up with a file name).

Anyway, sorry for the confusion caused earlier, I definitely won't do it again. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 09:43, 7 May 2017 (EDT)
:Don't worry, you're new to the Wiki, and there will be time to return to the conventional naming used for the other games. Spaces improve readability, so I recommend to add them, to do so you should use an underscore (<nowiki>_</nowiki>), as it is then shown in the Wiki as a space. Regarding the numbers, if you use the name of the course from which they were taken, it would make the name more informative, in those names I was using the conventions of the competitive community (first letter is r for retro tracks, d for DLC tracks and nothing for nitro tracks, then the initial of the names, using two letters if there is confusion, such as in the case of rRRy or dRiR), but you can also use the initial of the tracks (such as GBARiR or N64RRy or IIO). Finally, as last suggestion, when cropping a texture on transparent background, you can crop a slightly bigger rectangle containing exclusively the texture you want, select by color using 0 as difference threshold and no antialiasing, choose the transparent background and then invert the selection. This way, you won't have any transparent border while avoiding cropping out part of the texture. Anyway, I appreaciate you didn't do any rescaling and brightness- and contrast-based image alteration on sprites and textures, this might be nice for photos, but sprites and textures hosted here are supposed to be presented as they are in the game's files. Lossless rotations are fine if the texture is rotated, lossless mirroring is fine but odd, it isn't supposed to be needed and you should definitely state that you did that so we can investigate on why it was needed - there might be something interesting going on. Keep up the good work!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:22, 7 May 2017 (EDT)

::Hmmm, I'm still not 100% sure what to do about the file naming. I'll be back shortly to upload them, but I'll name them what I originally planned, and if you have the time, you can move them to a better file name if you'd prefer, I'm just worried I'll get it wrong! Any information you need'll be in the aboutfile template though- I've been using your Ludwig Painting one as a template all along! I just think it's a brilliant example and includes all of the necessary information (But I've obviously edited it for different courses and whatnot). (: [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 14:30, 8 May 2017 (EDT)
:::The infobox is fundamental, of course, and you're doing it right. I'm not going to rename everything as it would require a lot of work for no addition of content, just remember that, while avoiding an excessive length, if you can have more readable and informative names in the future this will help both you and others who might use your images as well as maintenance work - it's easier to reorder galleries when the names tell you the basics about the content.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:06, 8 May 2017 (EDT)

== Roy Koopa Quotes ==

What does the "2" that you added [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Roy_Koopa&curid=1853&diff=2195125&oldid=2195079 here] mean? --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 17:21, 15 May 2017 (EDT)
:It means that the keyboard has added a character by mistake. 2 is used for the ''"'' symbol on Italian keyboards. Fixed it. Thanks for pointing the mistake out!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:31, 15 May 2017 (EDT)

==Revising HP for Color Splash bestiary==

The way you display the enemy's HP by using the Hopslipper is actually kind of cool. I'd pretty much want to start my ''Paper Mario: Color Splash'' game in order to find out more of those statistics.
Anyway, can you please add more of this? I'd just want this to be a whole in an instant!

[[User talk:MadBird82]] 17:01, 18 May 2017 (EDT)
:Actually, I discovered the game's HP at the end of last week! First of all, [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12jSeMI6-xEia0ocOrG_ykpCXNoEmX5pGitHnfsuf9ag/pubhtml here's the table of the stats], it's a bit preliminary as some columns are merged and form insanely high values, still some essential data is already readable. The unit stats are in ''unitDataTable'', with HP being the 12th column, the power of all the attacks including the cards, is in ''weaponDataTable'': the 20th column has the power of the uncolored first attack, the 21st column has the addition to the power of the first attack given by coloring, while the columns from the 23th to 31st are the power of the subsequent attacks or are related to the power given by the various levels of attack (those obtained when timing right the hammer, for example). However, much has to be discovered. Using the Hopslippers, I needed 22 hits with 3 uncolored Hopslippers to defeats the Spikes, since they have 25 HP, this means I did 2 HP of damage with the first attack, and 1 HP with every subsequent attack, meaning that only the subsequent attacks were halved and defense is more complex than we thought before. If you want to investigate the mechanics, try to compare the data of these tables with how powerful the attacks are. Anyway, I'll try to add both the attack power of the cards and the enemy HP soon, actually the first chapter's and Koopalings' HP are directly from the unit data table!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:56, 18 May 2017 (EDT)
::Actually, I just discovered that the columns from the 20th to 28th report the power for the fully colored case, when the card is uncolored, the attack power is lower than the one shown there. In the case of the uncolored Hopslippers, they do 2 HP of damage the first attack, then 1 HP the following attacks.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:49, 19 May 2017 (EDT)
:::I recently fixed the tables a little, revealing more values by splitting the columns in a more proper way, now both the items dropped by the enemies and the color needed to paint the cards seem to be visible. I already updated the columns numbers in my post above.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:28, 19 May 2017 (EDT)

==Mario Kart 8 Sponsors: Update==
Hello again, you're probably getting bored of me now :P, but I was just dropping by to let you know that I've finally finished the Mario Kart 8 section of the [[Gallery:Sponsors in the Mario Kart series]]! Yay! I've gone through everything on the Models Resource for all of the courses and got what I think is the lot, you can check if you haven't already. I was just going to ask you a few quick things though. Firstly, if you don't mind, could you look into trying to get hold of some of the missing bits and bobs from the cars, trucks, buses, planes and whatnot? That's literally all we're missing now, and also do you know where we could get hold of models of the Karts, Bikes and ATVs? I know there are a couple we're missing on them (Namely the [[Circuit Special]] and [[Sport Bike]]), but I think there may be some on the other ones too, I'd need to take a look. I'm going to look into getting some sponsors from some of the earlier games next, and I also plan to use some of the images in the pages I plan to make for the sponsors. But to get to the point, thank you very much for pointing the site out to me and noticing the Sponsors lists that started this all off! [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 07:51, 27 May 2017 (EDT)
:For the sponsors of objects and playable vehicles that aren't on ''The Models Resource'', we will need to extract the textures from the models, I have all these models and I actually already extracted the Iggy's Glass logo from the model of the trucks on N64 Toad's Turnpike. I'm currently working on deciphering the stats of ''[[Paper Mario: Color Splash]]'' and inserting them on the Wiki, and we have a lot of work to do there, so I'm sorry that I won't be able to add the remaining sponsors anytime soon - I fear that no less than a month will be needed for Color Splash. Anyway, thanks for the great work, and good luck for the addition of the sponsors of the other games and for the work on the other pages!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:10, 27 May 2017 (EDT)

== About this Bowser Jr/Nabbit mask debate ==

Since the rise of these Mario x Rabbid rumors, you've been saying that the design on Yoshi Rabbid's gun is based on Nabbit's mask because it lacks the inner part, while some others, me included, say it's Bowser Jr's because it looks like a scribble. However, both of these statements are true, and it looks like this is an artistic/visual difference. Compare Junior's mask texture to {{media link|Bowser jr colouring book.png|these pieces}} {{media link|Bowser Jr - Paper jr MLPJ.png|of artwork}}. Quickly explained, 2D artwork Junior's mask is neatly drawn, so is Paper Junior's, while M&L Junior's looks like it was scribbled on. All of these also lack those inner parts as you call them. Point is that what we see in Mario x Rabbid artwork may be Junior's mask, just differently drawn because... different art direction, if that's the correct term for this. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 02:31, 5 June 2017 (EDT)
:Well, let's have a look at the masks themselves:<br>
:{{multiframe
|[[File:M&S Rio WiiU Nabbit Mouth.png]][[File:M&S Rio WiiU Bowser Jr. Mouth.png|x82px]][[File:MP9 Bowser Jr Bib Texture.png|x82px]][[File:Bowser Jr Coloring Book.png|x82px]]|align=left}}<br clear=all>
:These are the three images we have to analyze:<br>
:[[File:MarioRabbidsArt.jpg|thumb|left|800px]]<br>
:[[File:MarioRabbidsCharacters.jpg|thumb|left]]
:[[File:MarioRabbidsCover.jpg|thumb|left|800px]]<br clear=all>
:While the dark border is indeed a feature of Bowser Jr.'s mask, the 3D design of the latter was consistent over the years - in both Mario Party 9 (right) and Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (left) the same texture is used - a texture very different from the one used here, both due to the lack of inner part of the mouth and due to the shape of the teeth. And the texture used here doesn't really match the artwork of Bowser Jr. either - the teeth never reach the borders of the mouth, which is something they do here. On the other hand, the teeth match those of Nabbit's mask (far left), when it is reversed. I will add that the dark border is a feature of Bowser Jr.'s mask, though. It would be also nice if we could view the undulation of the mouth to see what it matches, but so far only side is shown at a time, which is frustrating...--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 06:40, 5 June 2017 (EDT)
:There's also another thing I just realized. The mouth on Junior's mask has the jawline resembling Bowser's. Nabbit's doesn't. If I'm looking at the Yoshi Rabbid's gun correctly, the design slightly resembles Junior's, but until it's shown completely I can't say for sure. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 11:34, 5 June 2017 (EDT)
::This is a thing I already added on the game's page, if you look at it, I also reworded the whole sentence. I think it's pointless stating it's either Bowser Jr.'s or Nabbit's mask when it simply doesn't match any of the two, but has features from both.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:04, 5 June 2017 (EDT)
:::Wouldn't it be best to simply say that the mask's design is reminiscent of the masks worn by Bowser Jr. and Nabbit? It outlines what we know without any speculation, and it doesn't bog down the page with unnecessary detail. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 13:07, 5 June 2017 (EDT)
::::Well, that's pretty much what the page does since my edits a few hours ago, the details are useful because Nabbit's page lacks a physical appearance section and I uploaded the texture showing Nabbit's mask only a few days ago, this information will be anyway removed after E3, either replaced by official information or removed in bulk if it turns out that the current material is not to be trusted. In the longer term, I think it might be a good idea to add a physical description section to Nabbit's page, underlining the differences between the masks, so we don't have to say every time why we can't interchangeably say ''Bowser Jr.'s mask'' and ''Nabbit's mask''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 16:40, 5 June 2017 (EDT)
:::::[[MarioWiki:Good_writing#Fan_worship|Just be sure not to add too many details]]. Even now, I think that the bit about "possibly the biconcave design" is too speculative and extraneous, especially when we know so little about the character, so I don't think it's necessary to expand any further on it. I'm all for having a physical appearance section on Nabbit's page, but I'd rather not have an entire paragraph dedicated to every microscopic aspect of the masks when an image with them side-by-side would be more to the point.  {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 17:39, 5 June 2017 (EDT)
I found that, as seen [[:File:Rabbid Yoshi - RabbidsKingdomBattle.png|here]], the mask actually does have the inner part of the mouth similarly to Bowser Jr.'s, but the teeth still resemble Nabbit's. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 18:27, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
:Well, from that artwork it seems more an innacurate reproduction of Bowser Jr.'s mask, so I'll just put that for simplicity, hoping that we'll know the name of the weapon as soon as possible.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:54, 12 June 2017 (EDT)

==The Wedding==
LuigiRules: This is your fault Mister Wu.
:It's not my fault if the idea was used many times in the Mario franchise...--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 04:31, 17 June 2017 (EDT)

== ''Super Mario'' series antagonists ==
Wait a minute. How is Wario a main antagonist in the ''Super Mario'' series? He's more of an anti-hero, or slight protagonist in my opinion. I find your definition of supporting antagonists to be flawed. Supporting antagonists are just those who back up the major ones from the side and are less important than the major antagonists. That's Wario for you right there. [[File:Luigi Emblem Winter Games.jpg|80px|link=User:Skuchi037]] 22:19, 13 July 2017 (EDT)
:Wario is the final boss of ''[[Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins]]'', now considered by Nintendo as being part of the ''Super Mario Bros.'' series, as stated clearly in the ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.''. If we remove him, we must remove Tatanga and Daisy as well, since we wouldn't consider the Nintendo ''Super Mario Bros.'' series as valid. Supporting antagonists are bosses who aren't final bosses. Other definitions would be arbitrary, in my opinion, as the importance of characters changed over time.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:25, 13 July 2017 (EDT)
What? That's not true. Dry Bowser isn't a final boss in any game, and yet he's a main antagonist?! Come on! Don't be hypocritical! Sure, their importance may change over time, but for right now, Wario isn't an important antagonist, or even character for that matter, and that's why he's not a main antagonist. It doesn't matter that he was the final boss of ''[[Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins]]''; he hasn't been important for 13 years, so he's not a main antagonist. [[File:Luigi Emblem Winter Games.jpg|80px|link=User:Skuchi037]] 22:32, 13 July 2017 (EDT)
:For the record, Dry Bowser is the additional final boss of ''[[New Super Mario Bros. 2]]'' and ''[[Super Mario 3D Land]]''. Tatanga has been MIA for way more time than Wario, and in the Super Mario series Wario as antagonist never supported anyone other than himself.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:40, 13 July 2017 (EDT)
Doc here, I have a question regarding this too, but about the artwork. It seems that the artwork is primarily from the game most closely associated with the respective character's role, ie why Wario's "protagonist" artwork is from SM64DS while his "antagonist" artwork is from SML2. But it's also worth noting that Dry Bowser's artwork is from a M&S game. While admittedly he didn't have any artwork before that (barring Mario Kart Wii, which used the same render), he could have used a screenshot if there's going to be nitpicking on that, like Pauline and the Sprixies did. --{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 21:48, 13 July 2017 (CT)
:I genuinely tried finding an artwork from NSMB2 or SM3DL, but on the wiki so far there's only one artwork, maybe Nintendo never made more than one. Typically artwork looks better, but this can be discussed on the talk page of the series if you want to reach a consensus on that, as well as on what the ''Major characters'' section should have or not.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:55, 13 July 2017 (EDT)

== MTM Koopalings ==

As the wiki's resident expert on the Koopalings, I thought that you might be able to help me with identifying some Koopalings that appear in the background in [[Mario's Time Machine]]. [http://i.imgur.com/BnPlQkv.png 1], [http://i.imgur.com/R7p2iuj.png 2] (for PC), and [http://i.imgur.com/RaMi1ni.png 1], [http://i.imgur.com/ZizJkRw.png 2] (for SNES). The one with the two-pronged hair is Ludwig, but I'm not sure who the others are supposed to be. Do you think you could offer any help? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:53, 23 July 2017 (EDT)
:My gosh, they almost reached SMB3/SMW levels of unfidelity, with the aggravating factor that they even forgot about the trademark elements - like the glasses, the ball, etc.. Ludwig is clearly recognizable - hair and single overbite can hardly be get that wrong. The others, though... ok, PC 1, left: no green part of the head can be seen, 4 teeth can be seen, external teeth are bigger and a little border around the eyes, this might be Iggy Koopa:<br />
:[[File:SMB3_IggyKoopa.jpg|300px]]<br />
:PC 1, right: the green part of the head can be seen, still 4 teeth with external teeth bigger; this might be Larry Koopa with Lemmy-like hair:<br />
:[[File:LarryKoopa SMB3.jpg|300px]]<br />
:or Lemmy with Larry's teeth:<br />
:<nowiki>[[File:SMB3 LemmyKoopa Cropped.png|300px]]</nowiki><br />
:PC2, right: same as last one, plus differences because the artist does not repeat themselves.<br />
:<br />
:SNES 1: Ludwig can be seen, the other is impossible to determine - Larry or Iggy or Lemmy? - maybe the bald one is Roy and there is also a Koopaling I cannot really recognize. Really, I think we would have to try hard to see someone other than Ludwig and maybe Roy...<br />
:SNES 2: well, I see Roy, Ludwig, plus the one who might be Larry Koopa or Lemmy Koopa.<br />
:Do we have Mario is Missing sprites to compare what the developers did there? Maybe they could help. I mean, Larry wasn't that wrong in the PC version.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 06:04, 24 July 2017 (EDT)
::The MiM sprites are a lot more recognizable, largely because the Koopalings make actual appearances. [https://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/mariomissing/sheet/79471/ Here's] a sprite sheet for the SNES version, and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO4o4ODhNFc here's] an incomplete longplay of the DOS version (timestamps for [https://youtu.be/UO4o4ODhNFc?t=142 Lemmy] and [https://youtu.be/UO4o4ODhNFc?t=4771 Roy], but the second timestamp is important because it actually shows the Koopalings' heads on the wall, like in the PC version of Mario's Time Machine). {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 13:06, 24 July 2017 (EDT)
:::Thanks, we were indeed lucky that they reused many emblems. At this point, in the first PC image the one on the right with Larry's teeth is actually Lemmy, and the same can be said for all the other emblems featuring him, while the one on the left is almost surely Iggy. For the statue it's more difficult, but we can rule Larry out at least.--18:38, 24 July 2017 (EDT)
:All right, thank you very much! It's hard to come with a definite conclusion for some of them (besides Ludwig, obvs), but for the moment I'll roll with Ludwig, Iggy, and Lemmy being in the PC version, and Ludwig and Roy being in the SNES version. (I've also realized that I confuse Roy and Morton way too much in my head. Maybe because they're both bald?) {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 18:36, 25 July 2017 (EDT)
::You're welcome! Regarding Morton, I would expect him to have his trademark three hairs and painted star, that even appeared in the concept artwork of Bowser's redesign, but yeah, Lemmy's lack of protrudring teeth was also supposed to be a trademark trait... the only other bald Koopaling would be Wendy, but even those guys should be able to distinguish them in term of appearance, especially considering that she didn't look that off in MiM.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:53, 25 July 2017 (EDT)

== Um ==
All Koopas are turtles, not all reptiles are Koopas, true. But that means all Koopas are Reptiles. Which means adding the "Reptile" category to something that already has the "Koopa" category is ''completely'' redundant. {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 01:25, 22 August 2017 (CT)
:Indeed, I fixed that and after the check I did won't touch it anymore.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 03:08, 22 August 2017 (EDT)

== PMCS Template ==

I know it's been quite some time, but wasn't there a previous discussion on how to keep the courses sorted in the template? I know I'm the one that had them in that layout you just changed.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 13:59, 31 August 2017 (EDT)
:While you were away, I managed to obtain the in-game data, including the full script, the stats, the images not yet dumped and other files. This led to the discovery of how the game is structured, leading to some changes, which are not yet complete. If you want more information, I can tell you more in deep what I discovered and point you to the transcriptions of the in-game stats.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:04, 31 August 2017 (EDT)
::Can you get more in depth about the sorting of the courses in the data and how it's better than the previous sorting?--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 15:16, 31 August 2017 (EDT)
:::I'll gladly reply to both your questions:<br />
:::The game's files and strings use two or three alphanumeric characters to refer to the courses using the following rules:<br />
:::*[[Port Prisma]] is known as ''TN'' (for ''Town'')
:::*[[Black Bowser's Castle]] is known as ''KP'' (from ''Koopa'', Bowser's Japanese name)
:::*The [[Roshambo Temple]]s are known as ''JK#'' (where # is a number ranging from 1 to 8, while ''JK ''is derived from ''Janken'', the Japanese name for Rock-Paper-Scissors)
:::*All the other courses have a letter wghich is either ''R'' (''Red''), ''B'' (''Blue''), ''Y'' (''Yellow''), ''O'' (''Orange''), ''G'' (''Green'') or ''V'' (''Violet'', yes, the proper name is violet and we'll need to change this everywhere) followed by a number ranging from ''1'' to ''4'' or a ''B'' (from ''Boss'').
:::*The numbers reflect the order in which the courses appear in the game
:::As an example, ''B1'' is ''[[Indigo Underground]]'', ''B2'' is ''[[Bloo Bay Beach]]'', while ''B3'' is ''[[Dark Bloo Inn]]'', ''B4'' is ''[[Cobalt Base]]'' and ''BB'' is ''[[Fort Cobalt]]''; but mind you, ''RB'' is ''[[The Crimson Tower]]'' and is played before you reach ''R3'', the ''[[Redpepper Volcano]]'', so boss courses are out of the numbering, which is pretty logical considering that they don't have a number in the first place.<br />
:::If the the numerical ordering of the levels of the same colors is indeed the order in which they appear in the game, what was the problem with the previous system? The problem was discovered accidentally during my first attempt at a playthrough: [https://youtu.be/F2u_Ffzi8IA?t=3380 ''Mustard Café''] and [https://youtu.be/F2u_Ffzi8IA?t=12264 ''Redpepper Volcano''] can already be reached before getting the Yellow Big Paint Star, so with the first two Big Paint Stars pretty much half (16 out of 32) of the non-Roshambo courses are discovered, with 5 more courses visited for the first time when looking for the Blue Paint Star. This is likely something intentional, as indeed the Violet and Orange Big Paint Star involve a linear substory - following the [[Toad Captain]] and the ''Sunset Express'' -, while the green one just makes you visit the remaining unvisited locations on ''Prism Island''.<br />
:::This however, would create a few lines with a lot of locations and then the last ones with fewer, which would be a bit inconvenient. Most importantly though, if you look carefully, the whole game is based on red, blue and yellow as primary colors that form orange, green and violet as secondary colors and black as the tertiary color - you first get the Big Paint Stars of the primary colors, then those of the secondary colors and in the end you face Black Bowser, as an example -, so having the courses ordered according to this not only follows what the developers actually did when they conceived the courses, it also shows more clearly how the game is organically built around those colors. If anything, the course signs on the world map clearly show the colors of the course you're about to enter, so it's something that ended being visible in the final game.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:24, 31 August 2017 (EDT)
::::Ok, wow, that's a lot of stuff that I don't understand. 
::::*You did mention that in the game's data, it's violet instead of purple. That doesn't mean we need to change everything related to the game to violet, when in the final game, the part that's visible to the player, purple is the term used, except for Violet Passage.
::::*I don't agree with the sorting of Port Prisma, Black Bowser's Castle, and Roshambo Temples because it creates more lines than should be necessary. The point there is to keep things neatly sorted, and that doesn't happen when you have three lines with one item each. The three should be placed in other.
::::*Because I don't understand the reason that this ordering is better, other than the observation that they've been grouped by course color, I'd like to state that though the game is mostly linear, mostly, there are areas you can visit before others, the previous sorting was fairly accurate to the order in which a course is mainly run through. Some course you go through three times, but maybe only the second run through is the long haul where you see the whole level. Whenever that happens, that's the point to focus on for where it fits in.
::::Again, yeah, I don't really get it, and I don't think I care as much if the courses are sorted by color, eh, or a generally chronological order. the other two things I guess I have a problem with. Idk, it's been awhile.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 20:52, 31 August 2017 (EDT)
:::::Sorry for being late in the reply, anyway these are my answers to your points:<br />
:::::*Remember that the English translation is not the text put by the Japanese developers - the English text changed quite a few things with respect to the Japanese script, so it can be expcted that violet became purple. Anyway, this wiki follows primarily the material from NOA and its localizations, so nothing will change in the foreseeable future.
:::::*The Roshambo Temples actually follow the same seven colors - you can see this in their signs on the world map, so if you think it would be better from a layout point of view they can be aggregated into said colors once they are discovered. Port Prisma has a sublist so it is five items in one, only Black Bowser's Castle is just a lone location, so I don't think this is as huge of a problem as it seems.
::::::Just take a long look at the template. Whatever way the courses are sorted doesn't matter here, just look. For ease of understanding and necessesity, there's only one location that's a black course, and one location that's a red, blue, yellow course. I don't care that there's multiple links to parts of port prisma, the point is that they don't need their own category. Neither does the castle. There's a point when you divide things up into categories where you group everything left over into a miscellanious because there's not enough of any of those items to justify it being seperated out. There's absolutely no need for it.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 22:59, 1 September 2017 (EDT) 
:::::*I can see the point of your list, especially when I think about the previous ''Paper Mario'' games: in those games most of the locations or courses are generally conceived around the main collectible and the theme associated with it, to the point that ''[[Super Paper Mario]]'' and ''[[Paper Mario: Sticker Star]]'' even use separated courses with numerical ordering along with name of the course. But even with these ties between locations and main collectibles, the templates of ''[[Template:PM|Paper Mario]]'', ''[[Template:PMTTYD|Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door]]'' and ''[[Template:SPM|Super Paper Mario]]'' separate the chapters from the locations, and the locations aren't grouped according to the chapter they are visited in for the first time. The case of ''[[Template:PMSS|Paper Mario: Sticker Star]]'' is pretty extreme, as the game doesn't strictly have chapters, only worlds that to some degree can be played in the order the player likes, as a consequence the courses are grouped in worlds. Now, in the case of ''Paper Mario: Color Splash'', things are quite different with respect to all previous cases: the main collectibles must be obtained in a specific order and in most cases there is only one course that must be visited to progress in the game, like in the first three ''Paper Mario'' games. Howsever, the courses themselves are based around seven colors, in a structure that can be perpendicular to the main collectibles until the boss course is reached, this being mostly evident with the first three Big Paint Stars. Considering that with the templates of the first three ''Paper Mario'' games we don't have locations grouped on the basis of which chapter they are first visted in and in the case of ''Paper Mario: Sticker Star'' courses are inevitably grouped into worlds rather than chapters, in this case in which an official ordering of the locations has been found I think we should follow that first, especially since at a glance it shows how the whole game is based around seven colors - from the objects that give you the paint of their own colors to the courses up to the whole map.
:::::Nonetheless, since your work is indeed valid, I'm thinking how your list could be repurposed, maybe it could fit the [[Big Paint Star#List of Big Paint Stars|List of Big Paint Stars]]?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:28, 1 September 2017 (EDT)
::::::maybe--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 22:59, 1 September 2017 (EDT)
::::Oh yeah, where can I see the dumped images?--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 20:54, 31 August 2017 (EDT)
:::::All the dumped images aren't uploaded yet, as I don't have an account on ''The Spriters Resource'' - it would also be quite some work to extact all the textures from the models. Therefore, I just upload the textures I know can be interesting, such as the pictures of [[Princess]] in the Professor's house. Just ask me what you want or need and I can upload it to the wiki or send it to you.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:28, 1 September 2017 (EDT)
::::::Is there anything from the gui? --{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 22:59, 1 September 2017 (EDT)
:::::::Pretty much everything that is not a 3D model can be uploaded to the wiki, including the ''HP'' text along with the numbers that show it in the game, the various elements forming the full paint meter, the various texts shown during battle like the grade of the attack, and so on. I can send you the 3D models as well, but you need 3DS Max to import them correctly, at the moment, since the Blender plugin doesn't work nicely with them. What would you need?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:59, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

== Cap Kingdom ==
My apologies, I have actually not seen any of the trailers, due to them coming out in the Summer, when I am at home, where I have dismal bandwidth due to us having Dish and not being able to get cable due to our location with our 100-yard-long lawn (it was once a pasture). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 06:06, 6 September 2017 (EDT)
:No problem, actually having low bandwidth and still editing the wiki shows dedication; just remember to keep the tone in check next time, especially if you're unsure about the claim being made!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 07:19, 6 September 2017 (EDT)

== Mario Character Encyclopedia: Perfect Edition ==
I noticed you've uploaded scans from various old Japanese Mario encyclopedias. I have been uploading cropped images of from the "Perfect" edition from that imgur page, and was wondering if you'd help me with translating the descriptions in the various ID tag-like blocks found beside each picture, as I've been cropping those as well and plan to upload them en masse later. I plan on making a page for the book and including a table with the name in the book in one column, the picture in the next, the card in the third, and a translation of the various information provided in the fourth. Here's the images on the wiki so far: [[:Category:Mario Character Encyclopedia: Perfect Edition Images]]. I'll be adding transparency to the ones that I didn't upload at some other point. So, will you help? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:32, 9 September 2017 (EDT)
:The book is written in cooperation with Nintendo and published by Shogakukan, an editor which is still publishing material in collaboration with Nintendo (the ''[[Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.]]'' is published by them), so I don't know if we really can host the whole book on the wiki - that imgur page has less traffic and is likely less monitored from a copyright infringement point of view than this wiki. While uploading new artwork present exclusively in it is fine, and also documenting a few aspects like what is said about the Koopalings or Mario and Luigi coming from Italy shouldn't be a big problem, I think we should hear other staff members before starting with an ''en-masse'' approach. Also, since I finally managed to scan {{media link|PEGMCE Last Page.png|the last page of the book}}, we also have its official name, 「パーフェクト版 マリオキャラクター大事典」, and agreed to use its translation, which is ''Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia'' (the 「パーフェクト版」, ''perfect edition'', is actually before the rest in the official name, plus 「大」 means ''great'' and was missing in the former name) to refer to this book. We should use this term (or a better translation of 「パーフェクト版 マリオキャラクター大事典」 if you have one) on the book page and rename the category as well.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:23, 9 September 2017 (EDT)
::I don't see why we'd be any more likely to have a copyright case with a nearly 25-year old guide than with a standard quotes page... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:40, 9 September 2017 (EDT)
:::Sorry I disappeared last night, Dad turned off the router while I was in the middle of things >.> [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:02, 10 September 2017 (EDT)
Related note, I found it quite strange the introduction for the publication to be found on [[:Category:Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia Images]], so I moved that information to [[Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia|its own article]]. Unfortunately, I don't know much about the publication, so you and others need to expand it. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 13:49, 10 September 2017 (EDT)
:I'm not exactly sure how to use {{tem|another language}}. I just apply it to non-English articles that have no localized alternative. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 20:49, 11 September 2017 (EDT)
::I don't think that's necessarily wrong, I removed it because the wording seems to suggest that an English name is present, but it's just not yet found and written down on the wiki, which is likely not the case here, as the book was published only in Japan.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:15, 11 September 2017 (EDT)
:::I've always interpreted that wording to mean that eventually there might be a localized version, just not yet, or never. I assume the better of the two cases. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 21:19, 11 September 2017 (EDT)
::::Who is right if talked about with other people? You or me? --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 13:56, 12 September 2017 (EDT)
:::::After discussing with other staff members, we decided to put the template back in. Already did that.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 06:02, 13 September 2017 (EDT)
::::::Cool. Glad that got cleared up. Thanks for confirming I am using the template appropriately. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 21:01, 13 September 2017 (EDT)
:::::::You're welcome, I was confused due to pages I created before like [[Mario Hanafuda]].--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:09, 13 September 2017 (EDT)

== "Your Country" ==
Is there a policy that makes that matter even in the slightest? I thought we did things based off of America nowadays. And I put the initial ref in. Not trying to be rude, just curious. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:09, 13 September 2017 (EDT)
:You didn't put the video, that I retrieved on the 14th of September. Retrieval date is based on the one who puts "retrieved" first. Which North American time should we follow, anyway? There's al lot of them!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:13, 13 September 2017 (EDT)
::I don't know, most TV Networks seem to base it off of EST. But I put the initial reference as being on the 13, and was about to link the ND video until I realized they took it down immediately afterwards. Maaaaaaybe I should make a proposal to change this asinine EDT thing, it made sense when this site was primarily from a British perspective, but feels painfully clunky and tasked-on nowadays....[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:16, 13 September 2017 (EDT)
:::Effectively, judging by the [[MarioWiki:Citations|citations policy]], this aspect isn't covered at all, so you can propose a unified system for times when writing down the date of retrieval, although ultimately it's really 1 day differences. When it comes to citation without the ''Retrieved'' part, though, it can be seen why the date is the one put by the first user who puts this part or why even that sometimes is changed: some very old references with broken links exist on this wiki and need to be changed, if the ''Retrieved'' part is missing, trying to find when the reference was put can be some work and possibly also be a bit inappropriate, since the new link was retrieved in a different time, therefore putting the date in which the reference was modified makes sense. In your case, I will put back 13th of September since the video probably just wasn't on, but keep in mind this aspect of the ''Retrieved'' part.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:30, 13 September 2017 (EDT)

== Shiny enemies ==

In regards to [[MarioWiki:Proposals#What_to_do_about_Paper_Jam_Shiny_articles|this proposal]], referring to the shiny enemies as variants is technically true but not the full picture. For your perusal, there is [[User_talk:TheFlameChomp#Straw|aconversation]] between TheFlameChomp and I that covers this, but in short, the shiny enemies are much closer in role to, for example, [[Amazy Dayzee]]s, and they are not solely recolors of other enemies. Perhaps you can take that into consideration? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 19:54, 15 September 2017 (EDT)
:The case is not really as extreme, although the lack of a Tattle Log doesn't help. The case of the Shiny Pokémon mentioned in the proposal would probably be more appropriate, since from your discussions it looks like they are variants of enemies with different stats but still the same attack patterns (Amazy Dayzees in TTYD definitely have different attack patterns, they barely attack and often flee - for good gameplay reasons too) and their appearance is actually the same appearance with just a shiny effect on it. Of course, since we often reserve the additional stats value for the regional differences, it might still be sensible to create separate infoboxes for them, but unless there are other gameplay implications specific to certain shiny enemes (e.g. different attack pattern from normal version) and not common to all (e.g higher shiny card drop rate, common to all shiny enemies) I fear pages just for them might be overkill - they would be the same pages of the normal variants with different infoboxes.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:19, 15 September 2017 (EDT)

== New Mario Encyclopedia ==
Hey, were you the person with the new Japanese Mario encyclopedia, or was that Mario JC or someone else? I can't remember, I have a few questions regarding some enemies' Japanese names, notably [[Skeeter]]s/[[Pondskater]]s...[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 03:22, 16 September 2017 (EDT)
:I am, I have both the ''Super Mario Pia'' (the memorial book of the 30th anniversary) as well as the ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'', the Official Nintendo Guidebook published by Shogakukan that is going to be translated in German and Spanish. You can ask questions about those books [[User talk:Mister Wu/30th Anniversary Books Related Questions|here]].--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:12, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

== Need Official Article Names from Japanese ==

You seem to know what you are doing with the [[MarioWiki:Japanese|Romanization]] of titles. If you can, I need the official names of these [[:File:MvsDK e-Cards Japan.jpg|five cards]]. I don't know if you can make out the Japanese text because of the small resolution picture. [[Mario vs. Donkey Kong#e World]] and {{tem|MVDK}} needs reworking as I found out the current 12 levels belong in [[List of Mario vs. Donkey Kong pre-release and unused content]] instead. I was able to unlock the game data by hacking and it doesn't match the [[e-Reader]] cards sample pictures very well. See [[Talk:Mario vs. Donkey Kong#e-Reader Levels]] for my tracking. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 22:21, 17 September 2017 (EDT)
:I'd need a better angle and a better zoom, as even the lower row is difficult to read. Anyway, for a more proper translation, I would still suggest talking to [[:Category:User ja|someone who actually knows the Japanese language]]. I still rely on automated translators as well as [http://jisho.org/ Jisho.org], since I never systematically studied the Japanese language. Of course, if you cannot find anyone, I can help, provided that we can find a better quality picture.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:39, 17 September 2017 (EDT)
::Maybe the videos on the [[Talk:Mario vs. Donkey Kong#e-Reader Levels|talk page]] could be of better help because the cards were scanned into the Japanese version. Also, [http://ereader.no-intro.org/checklists.php?sys=JpnList&search_set=%E3%83%9E%E3%83%AA%E3%82%AAvs.%E3%83%89%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%EF%BD%85%EF%BC%8B this seems helpful]. And I got some help on [https://redd.it/70sss1 Reddit]. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 00:20, 18 September 2017 (EDT)
:::I'm glad you could find a person who properly translated the Japanese text.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:51, 18 September 2017 (EDT)

== Pipe Fist ==
[[File:Perfect Mario Traps.png|thumb|left]]
I asked on the talk page, but haven't gotten an answer yet, I don't think. Does this shed any light on the name for [[Pipe Fist]]? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:05, 1 October 2017 (EDT)
:I should have the page translated, but I guess we can just use the most current definition of the specific object, from the ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'':<br/>
:<br/>
:「ゲンコツ<br/>
:土管から出てきてマリオを押しつぶそうとする手」。<br/>
:<br/>
:By the way, 「げんこつ」 means clenched fist, knuckles, so I guess the name is derived from that.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:22, 1 October 2017 (EDT)

==Lake Kingdom==
Given the new postcard that literally can't be from anywhere else unless they were to throw in a third water location (which is unlikely) matches up with it, it's all but confirmed. It seems that Seaside=Treasure Trove Cove and Lake=Jolly Roger's Lagoon, if you're familiar with ''Banjo-Kazooie.'' [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:46, 11 October 2017 (EDT)
:I know that this is Lake Lamode of the [[Lake Kingdom]], because having three water levels of which one is shown and one is announced doesn't make sense, but before starting an edit war we should post all the evidence on the talk page so we can finally settle that...--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 02:49, 11 October 2017 (EDT)

==German Koopalings==
Ah, leave it up to Germany to Grimm-ify their story! But does that mean that they were people transformed into Koopas, natural Koopas that he forced to work for him, or do you know? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:19, 17 October 2017 (EDT)
:The wording used seems to suggest that there are these Koopalings, and seven of them were pretty much appointed/hired/enslaved by Bowser to work as his subjects. No family relatiosnhip, but they are not even siblings, which is perfectly corresponding to the current Japanese depiction - they are named ''Team of 7 Bowsers'' there after all. Since Hirofumi Yamada, {{media link|ESMB German page 256.png|the translator}}, [http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=61155 surely knows how to translate Japanese material], this makes me suspect about this story which is too much different from {{media link|ESMB page 33.png|the one actually on the original Encyclopedia}} and too similar to the current Japanese depiction of the Koopalings. When I'll have the money, I'll get the Spanish version to see if the ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' stories match - meanwhile I think I'll discuss with {{User|SmokedChili}} if Japanese material indeed is compatible with this ''candidate for a current story'' I just found.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:40, 17 October 2017 (EDT)
::In complete honesty, this "seven of these Koopalings" thing makes me heavily skeptical about this book's translation: it's so far only found there and it's not even a concept that originated from Japan as far as I remember. Usually, they'd mostly retain the original stories for the Mario games and kinda keep them as their own thing (not counting references to the previous games), but this is like revising the story for the greater, comprehensive continuity. The recently uploaded Plessie bio from the book also raises my eyebrows, though in that case we don't know if it was indeed meant to be a girl. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 08:24, 19 October 2017 (EDT)
:::Not going to argue against that. In both cases I didn't alter the gender of Plessie on the whole page nor did I put the different story of the Koopalings in a more visible place for the same reason: as said before we need the Spanish translation, which is handled by a different publisher (Planeta Deagostini Cómics) and a different translator (Daruma, a translation agency), otherwise we cannot spot the differences due exclusively to the translator and the publisher's policy. Also, you remembered right on the story of the old games being unaltered, on the ''Mario Portal'', the current source of information about Mario and his games in Japan, [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/mario/collection/search.html#?g=series&v=mariobros the story of ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' is reported as it was on the manual, without the correction found in the ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.''], showing that at this point at Nintendo Co., Ltd. they want to preserve it fully. Still, I would like to point out this important detail: the Japanese ESMB reported at the beginning that the story was the one of the manual, a sentence also found in the ''Mario Portal''. {{media link|ESMB German SMB3 Story.png|This sentence is completely absent from the German tranlsation of the ESMB}}, this is why I suspect the revised story of ''Super Mario Bros. 3'', which is actually changed exclusively on that sentence and is otherwise pretty faithful to the Japanese text, conforms to the ''current story'' of the Koopalings bar some detail lost in translation - the ''seven Koopalings'' without the ''the'' might indeed be one of these, as effectively Japanese doesn't have articles. I hope it won't be long before I can get the Spanish translation and clarify both those odd points I found so far.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:53, 19 October 2017 (EDT)
::::Pardon, but while the ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' localization differences are worthwhile, I honestly think it would be best if we keep taking the minimalist approach to this origin change until further notice - that is, in the Japanese ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'', the Koopalings' ''SMB3'' story merely removes the explicit mention of being Bowser's own children (retaining their sibling team status, which is apparently a constant in edited versions), and official translations continue to confirm or imply familial relationship elsewhere (or sometimes even outright reference the original backstory, as in the case of the German and Italian text of ''Paper Jam Bros.''). The whole extent of the retcon revealed by Shigeru Miyamoto's interview is still seemingly interpreted individually within the company depending on when and where you ask, so it should be updated only once there's a direct developer statement that more strongly reclarifies their standing. A further revisionalist, wiki-wide "current story candidate" ought to be discussed then, but not yet. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:30, 19 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::Just so you know, the North American version of the Mario Portal was put online, and the [http://mario.nintendo.com/history/ story of ''Super Mario Bros. 3''] doesn't state that they are Bowser's children, nor siblings, being now prefectly aligned with the current Japanese depiction (I'll avoid using the term ''current story'' as effectively it makes no sense, the depiction was there was there since ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii''). Needless to say that even though the story starts with ''Story (From the original instruction booklet)'', [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAACE.pdf the story of the actual booklet was different].--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 16:53, 3 December 2017 (EST)
::::::Honestly quite pointless for them to pretend they never were, since anyone who looks them up online will see that's obviously not the case... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:19, 3 December 2017 (EST)
::::::The story seems to be copy-pasted from the Super Mario All-Stars (Limited Edition) manual giving it a quick look. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 02:13, 4 December 2017 (EST)
:::::::Can you please confirm this? The site reports ''Story (From the original instruction booklet)'' and, as far as instruction booklets are concerned, actually changes significantly three stories: this one, the one of ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'' - by stating ''The Mushroom Kingdom was the peaceful home of the Toads until the day Bowser and his wicked minions invaded. Using powerful magic, Bowser™ transformed the Toads into bricks and quickly conquered the land.'' and confirming that you were right on the misunderstanding about ''Koopa'' being Bowser from the start - and the one of ''[[Super Mario World]]'', where a translation of the story of the Japanese manual is provided instead, complete with Yoshi being a dragon. I checked the story of ''[[Super Mario Bros. 2]]'', ''[[Super Mario Land]]'', ''[[Super Mario Land 2]]'', ''[[Super Mario 64]]'', ''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'', ''[[New Super Mario Bros.]]'', ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]''; they are indeed the stories of the instruction booklets, just like the site states. What is happening with these three stories seems to be a deliberate attempt, even though the one of ''Super Mario World'' is puzzling at best as Yoshi being a dragon is not even relevant nowadays. Anyway, more insight on this would be very welcome.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 06:41, 4 December 2017 (EST)
::::::::I'm not sure if the ''Super Mario World'' story came from one of the Virtual Console releases or if it's brand new, but either way, it is not from either the SNES or GBA releases and is definitely a closer translation to the Japanese version, which additionally doesn't include the Cape Feather scene added by the SNES release. "From the original instruction booklet" is still a somewhat misleading phrase since most would naturally assumption that it is directly lifted from the initial English release (it's apparently a holdover from the Japanese site), and it's odd that they would rewrite most of the Princess Toadstool material back to Princess Peach yet leave the ''Super Mario 64'' section alone. As for whether or not the story text for ''Super Mario Bros.'' and ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' is from the Wii ''Super Mario All-Stars'' manual - I do recall that Princess Peach and Toads were used instead of Princess Toadstool and mushroom people/retainers, and I believe it didn't mention any Koopaling relationship in the story (remember that the Japanese site preserved the booklet story as specified and ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' only saw fit to subtly remove one kanji character that explicitly makes them Bowser's children, not entirely eliminate the sibling tidbit, so I can't understand why Nintendo wouldn't also update the original site along with the localization if they indeed wanted it to retroactively match the "current story" narrative rather than the game story). If it is indeed from that manual, I do find it suspect that the 3DS Virtual Console version would afterwards use another retranslation of the ''Super Mario Bros.'' storyline that instead interprets Bowser's minions as the Koopa tribe again (although if they really consciously went back and changed that now, Bowser is still referred to as the "king of the Koopas" in the site's Characters section, and this basically seems to be a rewrite of the SNES ''Super Mario All-Stars'' manual that did the same thing as well as mention Luigi). This particular difference appears to be incidental more than anything - I actually think Koopa as the original name of the turtle tribe makes more internal sense as far as the Japanese ''Super Mario Bros.'' manual goes, since Bowser is more correctly referred to as "Daimaō Kuppa/King Koopa" there and it wouldn't be very consistent if he was first casually introduced as simply Koopa just before the storyline mentions a king. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:50, 4 December 2017 (EST)
:::::::::Effectively, they also added ''Peach'' in the otherwise unchanged ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' story, thanks for noticing that! Anyway, regarding the story of ''Super Mario Bros.'', there is a detail {{User|SmokedChili}} spotted at the time that shows that this is indeed a different interpretation of the 「クッパ」 term in the first paragraph and what I think the most likely reason why it was changed: if you look at the [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf North American manual], you'll see that there all the black magic is stated to be of the Koopa, it was never stated that it was just Bowser who casted the spell. And there's a good reason for that, if we look at the original Japanese text:<br/>
:::::::::キノコ達の住む平和な王国に、ある日、強力な魔法を操る大ガメクッパの一族が侵略して来ました。おとなしいキノコ一族は、皆その魔力によって岩やレンガ、つくし等に姿を変えられてしまい、キノコ王国は亡びてしまったのです。<br/>
:::::::::<br/>
:::::::::このキノコ達の魔法を解き、よみがえらす事ができるのはキノコ王国のお姫様ピーチ姫だけ。彼女は今、大魔王クッパの手中にあります。<br/>
:::::::::<br/>
:::::::::マリオは、カメ一族を倒してピーチ姫を救出し、再び平和なキノコ王国を築くために立ち上がりました。<br/>
:::::::::<br/>
:::::::::テレビの中のマリオはあなたです。このアドベンチャークエスト(遠征)を完結できるのは、あなただけなのです。<br/>
:::::::::<br/>
:::::::::the critical part is 「強力な魔法を操る大ガメクッパの一族」, the English manual simply skipped 「の」 and considered 「クッパの一族」 as ''the Koopa'', which is effectively not a translation mistake due to the various meanings of 「の」, but at this point 「強力な魔法を操る」, ''who use/uses powerful magic'', was referred to all the Koopas, if we instead interpret 「の」 as ''of'' and 「クッパ」 as ''Bowser'', we obtain that 「強力な魔法を操る」 is referred only to Bowser. By the way, this leads to 「クッパの一族」 being the ''tribe of Bowser'', which isn't necessarily against him being the king of said tribe, as it's typical to refer to a group by indicating the most important person in said group. In any case, in the new site, 「クッパ」 is consistently translated as ''Bowser'' instead of ''Koopa'' and, as a direct consequence, in the revised story he is stated to be the sole responsible of casting the black magic upon the Mushroom Kingdom. I think this is the decisive detail that led to the revision of the meaning of 「クッパ」 in the first paragraph; at least this is the detail that allows us to understand that this time said specific term in the new site was translated as ''Bowser''.<br/>
:::::::::Of course, this is just limited to the meaning of 「クッパ」 in the story of ''Super Mario Bros.'', it's not a revision of the meaning of the ''Koopa'' term in the West like what happened in the case of the name ''Kamek'' in Europe, which was completely rectified by calling all Magikoopas ''Kamek'' just like it's done in Japan. As you noted, elsewhere on the site ''Koopa'' is still referred to the turtle-like creatures, and unlike Kamek's case I don't think this will be revised soon, although the more faithful translation of the Japanese ''Super Mario World'' story inevitably doesn't use the ''Koopas'' term, due to 「クッパ」 being exclusively referred to Bowser in said story.<br/>
:::::::::<br/>
:::::::::With all that being said, I think we really need the stories from the instruction booklet of ''Super Mario All-Stars (Limited Edition)'', as it would be useful to understand if what we see here is an attempt at revising the story of various old manuals or if it was just them using a source which was better aligned with the current Japanese naming conventions, leaving the case of ''Super Mario World'' a true mystery.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:21, 4 December 2017 (EST)
::::::::Found the [https://www.nintendo.com/consumer/downloads/manual-wii_supermarioallstars.pdf NA manual], and the SMB3 story really matches with the Mario portal site version (as well as the EU English manual). The [http://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Nintendo_SNES/Manual/formated/Super_Mario_All-Stars_-_1993_-_Nintendo.pdf original All-Stars manual version] is closer to the NES manual. In other words, '''those dirty liars this ain't the original manual story.''' [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 16:03, 5 December 2017 (EST)
:::::::::Why, thanks a lot! They even left the ™ from the manual in! Incidentally, the UK site confirmed that [https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Wii/Super-Mario-All-Stars-25th-Anniversary-Edition-283311.html#Super_Mario_Bros__3 the 25th Anniversary Edition was indeed explicitly trying to rewrite the original story about the Koopalings], but of course nobody could notice that in that moment since Miyamoto would have been interviewed two years later. But yeah, this is more them trying to use an updated version of the stories they already wrote back then, which is more in line with current depcitions and naming conventions, while pretending that it is the story of the original booklets. At this point we can only fathom what obscure mental process led them to properly translate the Japanese story of ''Super Mario World'' instead of actually using the one of the Englsih booklet. I mean, they probably wanted to fix ''Princess Peach'' so it was in line with the stories of ''Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition'', but first of all they forgot to fix the story of ''Super Mario 64'' as well, secondly this led to Yoshi now being a dragon from the start, [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clvs/manuals/common/pdf/CLV-P-SAAAE.pdf which is not exactly his Western depiction], not to say that [https://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2017/October/Nintendo-Classic-Mini-SNES-developer-interview-Volume-5-Super-Mario-World-and-Super-Mario-World-2-Yoshi-s-Island-1290850.html they just revealed that he's rather reated to turtles from the start]...--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:14, 5 December 2017 (EST)

I finally could scan the Spanish translation of the ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'', which is indeed {{media link|ESMB Spanish page 256.png|translated by a different person}}, and {{media link|ESMB Spanish page 33.png|it again omits that the Koopalings are siblings and Bowser's children}}. This time, though, the sentence simply doesn't use those terms rather than completely rewriting the sentence. This is actually something that can be observed in the whole book: this time the Japanese text tends to be more faithfully preserved with the main edits being the names being used that are the Spanish ones or the English ones in the absence of the formers. I'll deal with the odd consequences of this approach in a second moment (next week I'll be busy so I likely won't be able to elabporate on that), but for now I don't think any further edits are needed. Still, from what I've seen these last months we already had three Western sources in three different languages (English, German and Spanish) that omit that in the original ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' story the Koopalings are siblings and Bowser's children, if this trend continues in the future we might have to review the structure of the section in a more chronological sense since even the original story of ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' is being manipulated in the West.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:46, 30 December 2017 (EST)

==Superstar Saga remake enemy stats?==
Hey! I just wanted to ask if you could bring up a list of enemy stats for Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions?
I've probably went for this issue to Paper Jam before, but can you please reveal all the stats on a general stats table
like you did to Color Splash's, please?

My vision of the enemy stats are identical to that of the GBA version as shown [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=User:MadBird82/Sandbox&oldid=2345165| here.]

{{User:MadBird82/sig}} 16:00, 23 November 2017 (EDT)
:I'd like to do so, but I'd need a copy of the game, which I don't have as I don't have a 3DS. With the directory containing the data used by the game I can try extracting the table of the stats, but for the moment I definitely can't obtain it.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 16:56, 23 November 2017 (EST)

=="Space Dragon" Yoshi==

I just remembered this; I've been looking for the Japanese version of that message but have found absolutely nothing. In fact, there's no mention of it or the term "space dragon" on any Japanese site that I've searched. Thus unless it's discovered, all I can assume the localization made "the space dragon" bit up. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 12:38, 25 November 2017 (EST)
:I specified that this comes from the Western localizations on the text to be safe, but I would like to share what I found so far. The content of this sign is not talked at all in the Japanese material I looked so far, leaving us without a way to know its content, but Yoshi being a space dragon is in all the five European localizations on my disc: English, French, German, Spanish and Italian. Furthermore, the ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' on page 172 explicitly states that the message on this sign is an homage to ''[[Super Mario World]]''. Since in the international version of the latter game Yoshi signing himself as a dragon was replaced by Yoshi's paw mark and considering how NOA consistently referred to Yoshi as a dinosaur, this is likely coming from the original text. Another possible explanation would be that NOE decided to add it, since it might have referred to Yoshi as a dragon before when translating directly from Japanese (I too remember Yoshi being referred to as a little dragon in promotional material), that would be pretty surprising, though, considering how Super Mario Advance 2 used the paw mark in the various European translations.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:41, 25 November 2017 (EST)
::I actually get how the SMG2 Yoshi's message is an homage to the SMW one; the two are nearly identically written, which also applies to Yoshi's rescue message in both games. The message in SMW Super Famicom version also had "Super Dragon" written in it, so that's why I think the SMG2 localizations decided to go with a little addition compared to Japanese version. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 04:28, 26 November 2017 (EST)

==Various Truck Citations==
Hi, just dropping into let you know that I've finished making the articles for all three different types of truck now, so when you have the time, would you be able to add the citation for the titles please? Thank you! (: [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 17:43, 5 December 2017 (EST)
:I added the references, please tell me if there are issues or other questions about them!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:55, 5 December 2017 (EST)
::Thank you, they're absolutely fine- sorry for the late response! Anyway, I was just dropping in to let you know that the [[Glide Ramp]] page is complete bar the reference, so would you be able to add that soon please? Thank you! (: [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 15:21, 13 December 2017 (EST)
:::Well, I added that too. Good job on the proposals! If there's soemthing more that you need, just tell me and I'll add it!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:13, 13 December 2017 (EST)
::::Thank you, it's always helpful when you have an official name for something you're proposing, it makes it seem more significant then. After Antigravity Panels, I can't think of anything else at the moment, but when I've sorted out that proposal and if it passes, then I think that'd be te only other reference I'd need. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 13:08, 14 December 2017 (EST)

== Mario Kart 8 Deluxe ==

hi, you said "This is the actual table used by the game, so the order and having every row as it is on the game's table is important, might I ask you to do this on the main page?". do you mean i should replace [[Mario_Kart_8_Deluxe#Drivers.27_statistics|these tables]]? or should i just add the information from the other page to the tables that are already there? i ask because the tables on the main page are a little bit obscure to me. they look like they're calculated based on the tables from the statistics page somehow, but i'm not totally sure how. is it just (P-S)/4, where P is the stat of the part in question and S is the stat of its corresponding standard part? i'm not sure whether i would be deleting any important information by replacing the tables. regardless, i have some further questions:
# the main page implies that miis are divided into three classes with different stats, but the statistics page only lists one entry for mii. do you know why?
# the main page only has one traction stat, which seems to correspond to what the statistics page calls off road traction. i assume this is because some official guide did it this way, but do you think it's important to preserve that? 
# based on the icon that appears next to them on the vehicle selection screen, it seems like there are 4 body types: karts, outward bikes, inward bikes, and atvs. i can tell that inward bikes play differently from the other types, but as far as i can see the other three are all identical in mk8d. do you know of any differences among them?
thanks, sorry i wrote all over your table {{User:Twentytwofiftyseven/sig}} 14:22, 20 December 2017 (EST)
:Hi! Don't worry for the test, the method you found was actually interesting! Well, there was a discussion on merging the parts that had the same stats on the table you linked on the main page, and I think your method might do the job well. The calculation you wrote is the correct one, it is based on how the vehicle customization menu shows the stats in bar values that range from 0.75 to 5.75.
:# Only the stats of the medium Mii are coded in the game's characters' stats table, the small and large Mii evidently reuse the stats of other characters, which are unknown, although the final stats allow us to know the class to which the small and large Miis pertain.
:# The reason why the On-Road Traction stat is not reported in the current tables of the main page is that it went unused in both ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'': regardless of the points, it always results in a ''SlipRt'' value of 0.75. Adding it to the table of the main page might be confusing, as some readers who don't go into the in-game statistics page might think that they are indeed changing the traction in normal road sections by changing the On-Road Traction, which isn't true.
:# If things work like they did in ''Mario Kart 8'', in terms of gameplay, there are only two actual types of vehicles: inside drifting bikes and outside drifting vehicles (bikes, karts, ATVs). The drifitng behavior of outside drifting vehicles is always the same (if you want more info, you can have a look [http://www.forums.mkboards.com/threads/angular-velocity-in-steady-state-drifting-and-autodrifting.21115/ here]), but the small details due to hitbox and various different behaviors of the vehicles (leaning, pitching, wheelies) change from vehicle to vehicle. In any case, the game explicitly shows four groups of vehicles, so I think it makes sense to report the official vehicle type on the table. If you want, I'll upload the vehicle type icons on the wiki so you can add them before the name of the body, allowing the merging of vehicles of different types while still reporting their type.
:If you have more questions, ask me! Thanks for finding a neat solution to the problem, by the way!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:08, 20 December 2017 (EST)
::ok, i put a complete draft table [[User:2257/Test|here]]. you can tell me what you think of it. i actually wrote a script to generate this table because i was afraid i would make mistakes trying to manipulate that much information by hand, so if you see something you think should be changed then it should be relatively painless for me to do it, even if it's something complicated or that requires manipulating a lot of cells. also there's a few things on it that should be hand corrected, like the indication of what type each vehicle body has and the proper spelling of the character names, but i didn't want to do any of that until getting some feedback about this design. if you have the vehicle type graphics those would be helpful, thank you. also, is the meaning of the colors clear? the way they're calculated is that within each column and each of the four part categories, the minimum value is #ff8080, the maximum value is #80ff80, and other values are spaced evenly along the line between those hues. i think that's the most straightforward way to color them, but it does result in some weird things like the standard kart's speed values all being differently colored even though they have the same numerical values {{User:Twentytwofiftyseven/sig}} 08:43, 21 December 2017 (EST)
:::I personally like the design, as it immediately shows the strong and weak points of characters and parts and which characters and parts share the same stats, the only other choice would be using the condensed design used for the character table with this stats-based coloring, which you could try as well once we get this design done. I think your choice on coloring makes sense, as using a 0-7 coloring range for values that are either 1 or 2 can be misleading.
:::Here are the icons you can use:
:::*{{media link|MK8 Kart Body Icon.png|Kart}}
:::*{{media link|MK8 Standard Bike Body Icon.png|Standard bike}} (official name for outside drifting bikes)
:::*{{media link|MK8 Sport Bike Body Icon.png|Sport bike}} (official name for inside drifting bikes)
:::*{{media link|MK8 ATV Body Icon.png|ATV}}
:::*{{media link|MK8 Glider Icon.png|Glider}}
:::*{{media link|MK8 Tire Icon.png|Tire}}
:::Regarding the format of the table, I would like to adopt the points format for the main page as it's the format actually used by the game, but the community typically prefers the format shown by the UI and on the main page we use to report the values shown by the UI as well, so we should use the format shown in the current main page. For the parts you simply have to use the calculation you mentioned before, for the characters you just have to sum the points of the character and of the standard parts, add three points and then divide by four: '''S''' = ('''C''' + '''B''' + '''T''' + '''G''' + 3)/4, where '''S''' is the value of the stats shown in the table, '''C''' is the number of points given by the character, '''B''' is the number of points given by the [[Standard Kart]], '''T''' is the number of points given by the [[Standard (tire)|Standard Tire]]s, '''G''' is the number of points given by the [[Super Glider]]. After trying this, we can see if this design work.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:51, 21 December 2017 (EST)
::::i updated the draft. it took a little bit longer than expected because i got sidetracked. i think this format is looking pretty good, although i'm honestly not totally happy with the fractional stats. i get the argument that we should defer to what the community is used to, but i honestly think it's much more comprehensible with integer stats, just because 2 and 4 look a lot more different than -0.25 and 0.25. also, if you want to cross reference the stats of a certain character and vehicle with the statistics translation tables, having to sum, multiply by 4, and subtract 3, is more difficult than just summing. but maybe i'm the only one who wants to do that? i dunno. the only other comment i might make is that the white part icons over grey look a little bit ugly, and it might be better to color-invert them {{User:Twentytwofiftyseven/sig}} 02:58, 24 December 2017 (EST)
:::::Well, first of all, your work is beautiful! They make me wonder if I should put the color coding in the various tables of the in-game stats to make them more readable! Here are the inverted icons, by the way:
:::::*{{media link|MK8 Kart Body Icon Inverted.png|Kart}}
:::::*{{media link|MK8 Standard Bike Body Icon Inverted.png|Standard bike}} (official name for outside drifting bikes)
:::::*{{media link|MK8 Sport Bike Body Icon Inverted.png|Sport bike}} (official name for inside drifting bikes)
:::::*{{media link|MK8 ATV Body Icon Inverted.png|ATV}}
:::::*{{media link|MK8 Glider Icon Inverted.png|Glider}}
:::::*{{media link|MK8 Tire Icon Inverted.png|Tire}}
:::::The only thing I might ask is trying to put the icons before the parts, just like the menu does, and seeing if they still look good.
:::::I do agree on the format of the stats, as many articles about parts have debatable considerations like ''the kart doesn't offer any stat changes due to the main stats relying more on the weight class of the character'', not to say that a direct comparison between ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' is doable only when looking at the points, not at the differences since the stats of the standard parts changed between the two games. Anyway, since the menu format is so commonly used, I think we should discuss this in the game's discussion page before making a change so relevant.
:::::Well, that's it for now, you did an awesome job so for the moment all that is left for me to say is wishing you a merry Christmas!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 08:12, 24 December 2017 (EST)
::::::hi, i updated it again. and, that's a good point about those descriptions being misleading. i hadn't thought about that before. do you think we should make a proposal about it? {{User:Twentytwofiftyseven/sig}} 16:13, 25 December 2017 (EST)
:::::::Regarding the table, I think we're fine now. Thanks, really! We now need to see the outcome of the [[MarioWiki:Proposals#The format of the statistics in the main pages of Mario Kart 7, Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe|proposal that I made on the format to be used on the main pages]].--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:01, 26 December 2017 (EST)
::::::::Since the proposal passed (the voting ended, I think I'll just wait a moment to see if I get a reply from {{User|Wildgoosespeeder}} in the comments and then I'll archive), you can use points in the table and you can use your script also for the tables of ''Mario Kart 7'' and ''Mario Kart 8''. By the way, since the contribution of characters and parts was indeed considered an important aspect, if you can use gradients with intermediate colors you might try a red-yellow-green-cyan-blue gradient or a rainbow gradient on the full range of values (should be 0-10 points for ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' and 0-12 points for ''Mario Kart 7'') so that the actual contribution to the final amount of points can be seen while still having a distinct color for each amount of points, allowing to distinguish the various parts.
::::::::In the page of ''Mario Kart 8'' I prepared [[Mario Kart 8#Statistics shown in the vehicle customization screen|a section to explain how the points system work and how it is linked with the values shown in the vehicle customization screen]], feel free to improve it or suggest improvements; if you can upload the two screenshots of an example for ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' I could make the section also for that game (at the moment I don't have the game, only the Wii U version), don't worry about this latter aspect in the short term anyway as I will be away until the end of the week.
::::::::Finally, I would like to thank you for what you have done. Not only I find your tables very nice, I think you really helped us move away from a status quo which had a lot of room for improvement and yet wasn't likely going to change anytime soon. If you need help, don't hesitate to ask me, although as I said before, I will be able to help only after I come back. In case you can just have a rest until then, you deserve it!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:15, 2 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::hi, i created the mk8 version of the table and uploaded the mk8d example screenshots to my test page. the mk8 tables look a little bit crushed with so many vehicles in that game having identical stats, so i think i'm going to have to change that column somehow. i don't really want to remove the pictures outright since that would require people to know the english names of all the parts, but i might shrink them and let line breaks occur. mk7 might take me a little bit longer because the tables are formatted differently
:::::::::regarding the gradients, i changed them to what you suggested. but i'd prefer the way of applying the gradients i had before, simply because i think the tables convey more information that way. the reason is that with this style of gradient, the colors and numbers are essentially redundant; the same cyan shade always means 7. with the previous style the numbers and colors each convey different information: 7 means 7, but a 7 with a pure green background also conveys that there is no way to exchange that part to get a higher value, whereas a 7 with a yellow background shows the opposite. since this latter distinction is missing in the table where colors correspond directly to numbers, i don't think it's as useful. all that said, i don't think my initial choice of color scheme was very good. i have been playing around with a color blindness simulator, and its apparently fairly hard to distinguish the these colors if you have some types of color blindness. a rainbow gradient doesn't work particularly well for some types of color blindness, either. after some experimentation i think #ffff80 to #8080ff looks quite usable for everyone. unfortunately it's not very beautiful, and the use of yellow and blue to mean bad and good strikes me as much more unconventional than the use of red and green {{User:Twentytwofiftyseven/sig}} 10:12, 3 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::You're right on the redundancy, if the aim is making the values stand out more we'd better use bold font for the numbers while using the background to convey a different information. So far the color choices on the wiki have been based a lot on red and green, since we have more cone cells for those two colors making them stand out more with respect to blue, but starting to take color blindness into consideration isn't a bad idea, especially since color gradients suitable for color blind people like yellow-blue are now recommended (maybe even enforced?) on scientific articles, indicating that a proper gradient-based representation of information should increasingly take this issue into account. Regarding the problem of the big groups of ''Mario Kart 8'', line breaks are probably the main solution, resizing the sprites might be useful as well but we must see if text will become the limiting factor. As two last points, since DLC vehicles are already among the original ones, I think we can put both groups of sport bikes at the end to reflect their different behavior that also led to them having peculiar stats in the Wii U game; furthermore I think that the reason why the Super Glider and Paper Glider are in a different group - their different points in the unused ON stat - should be explained, otherwise it would look like a mistake.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:58, 3 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::::I reorganized the page of ''Mario Kart 8'' so you can just use the small icons with the link to the parts' pages like we do now for characters. You don't need to add symbols next to the icons, I actually even removed them from the characters' statistics table so we have a cleaner organization, without additional text to read at the bottom. I'm not planning to do the same in the page of ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' since there we don't list all the characters and parts before the tables, just the new ones. Still, if you think a condensed table might be useful there too, tell me and I'll see what we can do.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:49, 8 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::::hi, i've finished the table for mario kart 7 and also condensed the icons on all the tables as you suggested. these condensed tables definitely look better to me. i also did something to condense the mk8d character table even more, because it's still kind of unwieldy on mobile. i like the way that table looks best, but i don't know if we should use it on the page anyway, because the code is kind of complicated and hacky. also, im sorry it took a long time, although i guess you're probably used to how slow i am {{User:Twentytwofiftyseven/sig}} 19:12, 21 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::::::Thanks, we're pretty much there, and the results are amazing, so don't worry for the time needed!
:::::::::::::This new format you found should definitely experimented with, we might put thick black vertical bars to better distinguish the stats groups (i.e. put a thick black bar before Land Speed and a thick black bar after Anti-Gravity Speed, same for Handling). At the moment of course we should aim for better coding quality for better stability, but if you can come up with a better coded solution, we should definitely aim for such a layout, even if this means having three separate table for the parts, as it is very compact and easy to read.
:::::::::::::As a final question before the copying of the tables in the main pages, I tried using [http://colororacle.org/index.html this tool] to evaluate gradients and it looks like if we put cyan as intermediate between blue and yellow (at midpoint, 50%, of the gradient, you can use 80ffff to stay consistent with the current style) we get decent results even in the rarest case of Tritanopia while having much more intuitive tables for the non-colorblind people, you can use the tool and tell me what you think. In case it looks decent to you too, how much time would be needed to apply the blue-yellow gradient with cyan as intermediate?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:42, 21 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::::::the gradients are very easy to change, so i put it up on the test page. as for the table style with the diagonal headers, i think it's as good as it can get with current css. i could do it in a different way with javascript, but that would also have certain problems and i'm not sure either way would really be better than the other. everyone in chat seemed to be able to see it correctly, though {{User:Twentytwofiftyseven/sig}} 22:58, 21 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::::::::At this point the tables are ready to be used, and I'll add them the following days. Thanks! I agree with the new layout being very clean, so when you feel ready to use it, tell me and I'll replace the tables with the new, mobile-friendly layout.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:34, 21 January 2018 (EST)

==Odyssey Concept art==
I have the game, but I can only play on weekends due to college. Anyways, I don't recall seeing any concept art in it, but I suppose some might be viewable at completion or something.... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:56, 11 January 2018 (EST)
:I meant donig a comparison between the Tostarena sketch and the final design, I'm attempting at making it but the help of someone who checks the actual Odyssey used in the game will be appreciated.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:02, 11 January 2018 (EST)

== Mario + Rabbids stats/skill tree ==

I will <u>'''try'''</u> to make a skill tree for Kingdom Battle. The names of things, descriptions, the visible stats, these all change around based on where you put points in the skill tree.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 19:35, 19 January 2018 (EST)
:Thanks a lot! Not having the game, it would have been a pretty long job for me. I think you can put the base stats on the character tables of the main page, and then put the various skill tres in a section that is yet to be made.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:40, 19 January 2018 (EST)
::I'll just make the tree in my sandbox and you can do with it as you please when it's done. Now on the main page, should the characters remain in that order, or the order they are in-game? In-game it's
*Mario
*Rabbid Peach
*Rabbid Luigi
*Luigi
*Rabbid Mario
*Peach
*Rabbid Yoshi
*Yoshi
--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 19:59, 19 January 2018 (EST)
::Using the order of the game makes sense, although it might look ugly due to the misaligned colored columns obtained with the current layout. Feel free to explore better layouts.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:04, 19 January 2018 (EST)
:::Heck it'll get worse when Donkey Kong gets added.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 20:31, 19 January 2018 (EST)
::::I finished the skill trees over in my [[User:Eldritchdraaks/sandbox|sandbox]]. I think given the way it's setup we don't need to add any header rows. It looks nice that way. Anyways, the right column has bolded numbers followed by a 'p' which is the cost to upgrade, 'p' meaning power orb. This was the simplest way I could make the skill tree, simple without getting too cluttered with many rows or columns per skill.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 16:40, 22 January 2018 (EST)
:::::I looked at the table and my only question is if the various levels have an official name we could use as header to use it in place of those sandwich-styled headers we are using now. Ultimately, these tables will require a new page, so we can put the explanations of how the skills are organized (e.g.: primary skills are active from the start, secondary skills require orbs to be activated and tertiary skills require both orbs and the corresponding secondary skill of the same class to be activated, with the only exception of those in the ''other'' class which require orbs and all three secondary skills to be activated) and then use a simpler to read structure.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:31, 22 January 2018 (EST)
::::::No, there's no official name. I wouldn't call them levels. Actually I wouldn't call them anything. That's how it'll start to get complex by introducing more variables. I'm not great at explaining my thought process. What kind of simple to read structure are you thinking of? --{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 19:26, 22 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::One in which we just have up to three sections per class called ''primary skills'', ''secondary skills'' and ''tertiary skills'', with the explanation I gave above. If they don't have an actual name, though, there's no problem in using your current tables.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:38, 22 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::Yeah, again, no name in the game. Let's leave it that way. Go ahead and plop those bad boys down on a page.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 19:44, 22 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::[[Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle Skill Trees|Done]]! Thanks a lot for the very nice and helpful work! Feel free to prettify the page and also the small section on the main page if you want.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:55, 22 January 2018 (EST)

== Guess What I Found! ==

I have a huge surprise for you! I went poking around, reaching out to a few people about a certain something. I got word back from someone on reddit, I talked to him about the thing, and he's very eager to help. What is it you may ask? Well.... [[:File:Marioparty_cards_1.jpg|it's these]]!--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 18:54, 23 January 2018 (EST)
:Awesome job! Very nice to catch more Mario-themed trump cards from Nintendo! By the way, they'll need their own page once you have them scanned, but you can use the current Mario Playing Cards page as a template.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:39, 23 January 2018 (EST)
::Got it. It'll be a bit of waiting, since he has to get them scanned and all.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 20:25, 23 January 2018 (EST)
:::[https://imgur.com/a/KjQaRvA https://imgur.com/a/KjQaRvA] --{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 13:24, 5 June 2018 (EDT)
::::Great! The idea of forming a big artwork with all the cards is neat! Imgur sadly tends to recompress JPEG files, but the resolution is high enough that there shouldn't be a significant loss of quality. Do you plan to upload them on the wiki or the uploader requested them to stay in that Imgur post?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:31, 5 June 2018 (EDT)
:::::The issue with the uploader is it's been 4 months with very shotty communication, promises that they would do a better scan and that never happening. I'm just tired of waiting and dealing with them so I'm giving you the first version of the scans they sent me. They're cut off in places which is annoying, and That's what I was trying to get corrected from them.--{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 18:31, 5 June 2018 (EDT)
::::::Well, if the uplaoder is fine with them being uploaded here, you can begin - you will upload the better version if it ever gets scanned.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:36, 5 June 2018 (EDT)
:::::::They are fine with it. Since I'm not active at this time, I'm giving them to you to do, if you want, because I won't be doing them. {{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 01:40, 6 June 2018 (EDT)

==Antigravity Panel citation==
Hello, just dropping in to ask if you could put the citation for [[Antigravity Panel]] that you found on the page please? Thank you! [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 15:44, 29 January 2018 (EST)
:Done! Sorry if I changed a lot of things on the page, I effectively forgot to explain how anti-gravity mode activation actually worked in ''[[Mario Kart 8]]''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:37, 29 January 2018 (EST)
::No, it's fine, I was kind of struggling with what to write anyway, so I think the collective effort is probably the best thing or the page. Thanks for adding the reference though! [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 11:44, 30 January 2018 (EST)

== APNG Move ==

I was asking {{user|Mario jc}} to edit the archive for [[:File:PMCS Ludwig Animated.apng]]/[[:File:PMCS Ludwig Animated.png]]. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 20:30, 31 January 2018 (EST)
:Fine, once the edit has been done you can move. I can tell you in advance that both Chrome and Firefox support APNG files with .apng extension. Do you have other tests planned, by the way?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:50, 31 January 2018 (EST)
::I was just testing to see if MediaWiki would throw errors changing the extension from PNG to APNG using the [[Special:MovePage|move feature]]. Seems like everything is OK, since MediaWiki logs APNG as well [[Special:MediaStatistics|here]]. Since we have no other APNGs, we can start establishing standards for {{SITENAME}} before allowing APNG uploads and before things get too numerous, like with my proposal to get the 1000 different OGG files (at the time) with either OGA or OGV instead. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 16:03, 1 February 2018 (EST)

==ESMB Enemy Galleries==
While this is ''technically'' an ESMB question, I feel the context is different enough it can go here. Anyways, given that recent upload of yours of the scan of the ''Lost Levels'' enemy page, I was wondering if the other games had enemy gallery sections with cool artwork we might not have here. Do they? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:41, 6 February 2018 (EST)
:Apart from the first two games where they are using Kotabe's (and Tezuka's) artwork, They are mainly using the games' artwork, most of which is already in the game galleries, I might upload some of the most obscure images, like Bowser in ''Super Mario Sunshine''. It's not the best source, though, due to the images being small and the boxes not always being straightforward to remove appropriately.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:47, 6 February 2018 (EST)
::I know they're probably mostly the same, I was curious about games that we don't have very much enemy artwork from (ie most of the 3D-and-onward games) and perhaps ''Super Mario World''. I'd say it's fine if it's a little low-res, if the artwork exists in some form at all it could presumably be located in a larger scale from another source then reuploaded. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:00, 6 February 2018 (EST)
:::In the case of ''Super Mario World'', we actually have a lot of artwork thanks to a ''Super Mario Advance 2'' press disc that was found, anyway the biggest problem is the printing resolution: we immediately reach the limits of the printing system even in the case of the German translation (which is the biggest book and has high printing quality), which makes the use of automated tools impossible and forces me to work by hand, requiring more than one hour and obtaining {{media link|SMS Bowser.png|pretty crude results}}. This is why I don't plan extracting the artwork from the boxes soon, unless there is a very interesting case (like that of Bowser in ''Super Mario Sunshine'', which we were definitely missing and is very important as it is pretty much the first complete artwork with the current design)--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:52, 6 February 2018 (EST)
::::I had been wondering if perhaps [[Amazing Flyin' Hammer Brother]], [[Fishing Boo]], and [[Thwimp]] use artwork similar to PeotGMCE, as we don't have any other source for those. And is there artwork for the SM64 enemies, or are they just screenshots? Anyways, thanks for considering and explaining. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:17, 6 February 2018 (EST)
:::::Only Fishing Boo has artwork - the same one we have but colored, so I might upload that tomorrow - while the enemies of SM64 don't have artwork, beside Bob-ombs and Bowser who use the artwork from the manual we already have.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:49, 6 February 2018 (EST)
::::::Awrighty then. How about ''Sunshine''? Match up with the art from the guide I linked on the ''Sunshine'' gallery page? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:23, 6 February 2018 (EST)
:::::::The ''Super Mario Sunshine'' enemies' section, in terms of artwork, only has Bowser, Shadow Mario and Bowser Jr.. I uploaded the Fishing Boo, it's {{media link|SMW Fishing Boo.png|here}}.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:40, 8 February 2018 (EST)
::::::::Oooh, thank you. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:08, 8 February 2018 (EST)
:::::::::Um, if [http://www.otaku.co.uk/files/images/fullsize/202306J6.JPG the][https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Is-ogLCwoWI/VjZJHWex00I/AAAAAAAADD4/hR95WsQeltE/s1600/Super%2BMario%2B30%2BEncyclopedia%2B01.png se] are anything to go by, there's actually quite a bit of SMBE art we don't have, or have for alternate palettes.... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:32, 27 April 2018 (EDT)
::::::::::Every hand-drawn artwork of the enemy has been recolored, without respecting the color conventions of the time. As an example, Bowser has red eyes in both SMB: TLL and SMB3 (even though the main artwork in the page before shows him having blue eyes!) while Iggy's artwork in SMB3 has the inner iris ring colored blue instead of the outer! Since the recoloring job wasn't the best and, most importantly, was actually misleading in terms of understanding the coloring conventions of the time, I didn't bother reuploading all the recolored artwork. We can still upload new artwork if you spot it, but we should actually point out when hand-drawn artwork is taken from the SMBE, as its coloring is very often wrong.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 03:00, 28 April 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::::Updated colors should be uploaded, just as we upload repetitive sprites from recent M&L games. Anyways, while the Fuzzy and Ninji are old artwork that can be seen in PEotGMCE, we don't have either. Same goes for Hothead and Li'l Sparky. Though to be honest, you might just wanna give me a full-page scan or two on the forums so I can try ripping whichever catches my fancy, I was working on doing that for the LL ones before getting swamped with schoolwork... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 03:35, 28 April 2018 (EDT)

== Full size images on twitter ==

The largest size image you can get off twitter [[:File:SMO_explorer_wallpaper.jpg|can be obtained]] by using ":orig". Although it sometimes doesn't produce a different image to smaller size options like "large". --[[User:Hiccup|Hiccup]] ([[User talk:Hiccup|talk]]) 08:46, 13 February 2018 (EST)
:Indeed, I've been using the '':orig'' suffix since a few weeks, that was an old edit. Anyway it's useful to have that pointed out somewhere, so thanks.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:04, 13 February 2018 (EST)

== Lookie Lookie ==

Take a look @ 4:35 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhqxwlNGaHQ&list=WL&index=5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhqxwlNGaHQ&list=WL&index=5] --{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 19:45, 22 February 2018 (EST)
:Well, thank you for the nice find! I'm glad that those cards are popular! I personally liked them a lot and thought it might have been nice to have them scanned and on the wiki, I was surprised when I saw them on the Wiki's Twitter account after I had uploaded them, though!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:52, 22 February 2018 (EST)
::Yeah, and a few weeks ago I was watching a video and was graced with the wiki's logo mid way through. Not a big deal, but I technically got my own content in there. :D --{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 19:53, 22 February 2018 (EST)
:::Well, yes! After all you did a fine job there!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:42, 22 February 2018 (EST)
::::Thanks. I've been scared to talk about the logo because of the reaction by people who didn't like the idea of the logo changing, or wanted to be the one to change it. I think the idea was to let it sit around for awhile and it would be revisited, but goodness gracious I hope that doesn't happen. I like my contribution to the wiki with the logo. I hope it lasts for years. --{{User:Eldritchdraaks/sig}} 21:14, 22 February 2018 (EST)

==Zen Hyakku==
Does the "''Super Mario Complete Encyclopedia''" have any more ''wonderful'' artwork like {{media link|Mega Mole Complete Encyclopedia.png|this}} that could potentially be scanned? Because this is absolutely amazing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:35, 8 March 2018 (EST)
:Every enemy in every of the then four Super Mario games has artwork - although only a few enemies of ''Super Mario World'' have colored artwork - but it's actually {{media link|SMCE page 44.png|stock}} {{media link|SMCE pages 168 169.png|artwork}}! It simply looks like we don't have all of it so far!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:14, 8 March 2018 (EST)
::I figured there would be some of that, but are there any more (seemingly) unique ones? There ought to at least be a few.... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:26, 8 March 2018 (EST)
:::I'm pretty sure they are all official artwork of the time - even the {{media link|SMB LL Bowser's Brother Artwork.png|Blue Bowser one}} was reused from an {{media link|Kuppa Kinopio New Year Gift 1986.jpg|older artwork of Bowser}}! That doesn't mean that we won't be able to find some surprises, like in the case of Mega Moles.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:21, 8 March 2018 (EST)

==Derived species==
At your leisure, please speak with me [[template talk:Species-infobox|here]], the exact meaning of "derived species" needs specified, as it's unclear whether it means "biological subspecies" or "took design inspiration from." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:20, 12 March 2018 (EDT)

==Incorrect translation==
I think I'll be able to investigate that term, whatever term it is, as I'm one of a group of users on here who actually know that language. That whole mumbo-jumbo says "シェルクリーパー; シェルとは日本語で甲羅などのことであり、クリーパーとは、音もなく忍び寄る者のこと。カメさんと呼ぶより、なんだかカッコいい感じ。「マリオブラザーズ」に登場する敵キャラで、その後の人気者ノコノコは、彼の進化形だ。ノコノコ退治の要領で気軽に踏んだりすると、逆にマリオが退治されちゃうので気を付けて。" (if you're referring to the text on that YouTube video about this whole "shell creeper" thing. [[User:ThePokémonGamer|ThePokémonGamer]] ([[User talk:ThePokémonGamer|talk]]) 22:15, 12 March 2018 (EDT)
:If you can translate this text, I would be very glad.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 08:09, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
::"シェルクリーパー; シェルとは日本語で甲羅などのことであり、クリーパーとは、音もなく忍び寄る者のこと。" "Shellcreeper; 'Shell' [as it is rendered in katakana] is referred to as 'koura' and so on in Japanese." [in the sense of the original Japanese originated word] "クリーパーとは、音もなく忍び寄る者のこと。; "'Creeper' is one that quietly creeps up." "カメさんと呼ぶより、なんだかカッコいい感じ。 More than referring to it as just "Turtle-san" (Kame-san), it somehow seems more stylish."  「マリオブラザーズ」に登場する敵キャラで、その後の人気者ノコノコは、彼の進化形だ。ノコノコ退治の要領で気軽に踏んだりすると、逆にマリオが退治されちゃうので気をつけて。 "Enemy character that showed up in "Mario Bros.", the popular "Nokonoko" [Koopa Troopa as English speakers know it as], which came after, was his evolved form. When trampled on freely following the essentials of taking out a Koopa, Mario in return gets taken out so be careful." [[User:ThePokémonGamer|ThePokémonGamer]] ([[User talk:ThePokémonGamer|talk]]) 16:41, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
:::Is that taking out a turtle or taking out a Nokonoko? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:32, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
::::Nokonoko is the original name of Koopa. I referred to it as Koopa in the second case because you already know what I'm referring to. If that's not clear enough, this is a clearer idea of what it's trying to mean there: "if you try to jump on it the same way you would take care of a Koopa, Mario gets defeated." (edit, better explanation of their idea: "If Mario tries to jump on the Shellcreeper the same way he jumps to take care of Koopas, Mario will instead [in return] be defeated."). You of course get defeated if you jump on top of a Shellcreeper in the original Mario Bros. 1983 game, but you don't get defeated for jumping on a Koopa Troopa (and that's how you deal with turning it on its shell, as the bio says it's talking about "the ropes/essentials" to doing it), which yes the Japanese game does indeed say the Koopa is an evolved form from the Shellcreeper ("kare no shinkakei da" meaning "that's his evolved form"). It begins by explaining why a Shellcreeper is named the way it is (the first one, シェル is English for 甲羅, and the second one, it's simply "creeper"), and the first two sentences explain the whole name scenario. And yes, シェルクリーパー ''is'' a transliteration of "Shellcreeper", and as they've stated in the second sentence (and as I know for sure, having some following with the Japanese[-speaking] side of the fandom), that's the preferred name of it. ( [[User:ThePokémonGamer|ThePokémonGamer]] ([[User talk:ThePokémonGamer|talk]]) 19:00, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::Except I didn't know that. "[[Koopa (species)|Koopa]]" and "[[Koopa Troopa]]" are not the same thing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:19, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::Yeah, well, I wasn't thinking of the overall species "Koopa", merely what many refer to as that shortened, so sorry for any inconvenience caused by using it interchangeably there. I'm originally from the US however I generally play the original Japanese variants of this franchise's games (apart from Pokémon, which I mainly have interest in), and in Japanese, we refer to Bowser and his Koopa troops as this "turtle clan", and use "Koopa" to refer to Bowser (and other names like "evil king" Koopa), and refer to the Koopa Troopas as "Nokonoko", so it's easier to differentiate in Japanese compared to in English which involves shortening "Koopa Troopa" to "Koopa" and also using "Koopa" to refer to a couple of other things as well.
::::::I assumed you were referring to "turtle" as in "Kame-san" (as in comparison to how well "Shellcreeper" is as the second sentence in the bio explains) as in referring to ''Shellcreepers'' as "turtle". Yeah, apologies for misinterpreting that. (Speaking of which, there's still even more NSMBU challenges that need Japanese names here that I can find which I can translate as well.)
::::::[[User:ThePokémonGamer|ThePokémonGamer]] ([[User talk:ThePokémonGamer|talk]]) 19:56, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::::Actually I meant "Turtle" as in "Turtle Tribe." :P [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:13, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::::To clarify, Doc, in both cases the text uses 「ノコノコ」 which is the Japanese name of ''Koopa Troopa''. ''Koopas'' as in ''Turtle Tribe/member of the Turtle Tribe'' is not mentioned in this text.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:14, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::......darn it Nintendo(s), get it together! [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:31, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::::::I mean, the Japanese text was clear, also because the relationship between Koopa Troopas and Shellcreepers is evident, I wonder why they lost the second part of the name...--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:47, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::::Because ''Super Show'' was surprisingly brilliant in how it shortened them to "Troopas," and no English-speaking Nintendo follows that example ever? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:23, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

== Imgur Guides ==

It would seem I am no longer able to find either the PEotGMCE or the full version of the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' Shogakukan on Imgur, as using the links just brings up an error screen. As such, they've either been deleted or obfuscated to a different exact URL. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:36, 14 March 2018 (EDT)
:All the uploads of the user, {{User|Vent}}/Borp, are [https://manspeed.imgur.com/ here]. He effectively removed the Encyclopedia and the SMS guide. By the way, he didn't like that his scan were uploaded on the wiki, which is why I replaced what I had uploaded from his scans with my own scans. Next time you want an upload from that guide, ak me and I'll upload it from my copy.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:25, 15 March 2018 (EDT)
::Ah, OK. I was mostly after the unique artwork, anyways. I've been attempting to crop from the ESMB page for ''the Lost Levels'' while maintaining best possible transparency and outline quality, but due to schoolwork it's slow going. Since it's obviously retouched since the initial 1986 artwork, I figure it would go in the ESMB gallery. As a side note, I find it interesting that the "above ground" Blooper has its own section and name despite being the exact same object as the water-based one, just in a different location, while the jumping variety of the red Cheep-Cheep is lumped with the water-based one, despite their obvious behavioral differences. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:10, 15 March 2018 (EDT)
:::That book organized characters by name: if the name was different, a different entry was made even if it was the same character (like in the case of Lady/Pauline)!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:06, 15 March 2018 (EDT)
::::I'm not talking about PEotGMCE, I'm talking about ESMB, and all enemies from ''The Lost Levels'' on one page. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:19, 15 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::In that case, since the book is organized on a game-by-game basis, listing in each game all its enemies, I think this merging or splitting comes from Nintendo itself. They considered some enemies variants of the same enemy, while others were given differente entries. If you look at the questions related to that book, you'll see a lot of cases like those.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:42, 15 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::I just find it odd they'd give the same object in two locations different names sometimes (when they have the same behavior) and not others (when they have different behaviors). Anyways, I'm curious, do you happen to have the Japanese Sunshine guide? Its art needs ripped, and I still need a way to finish ripping the art from PEotGMCE... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:40, 16 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::::At the moment I don't have the guide and I'm not sure if I'll buy it in the short term due to other priorites.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:11, 16 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::::OK then. I can wait. I understand. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:32, 16 March 2018 (EDT)

== Mole relations ==

Pardon me, but what does [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n02/dmg/l6j/enemy/index.html this] say regarding [[Ragumo]] and [[Monty Mole]]? I believe it implies that it is a relative of Choropoo, as Google translate mangles out "Relatives of chubby pooh! What??!" but I'd like to make sure I know what it's saying. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:21, 2 April 2018 (EDT)
:Effectively, [http://jisho.org/search/%E8%A6%AA%E6%88%9A 親戚」 means ''relative'', ''kin''], so a crude literal translation of the first sentence would be ''A relative/kin of Monty Mole!?''. If you want a more appropriate translation of the whole bio, you should ask an user who actually knows Japanese, though.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:48, 2 April 2018 (EDT)

== Images taken from a video ==

I saw you reverted my edit to [[:File:SMO Ruined Kingdom Screenshot.png]] because it was taken from a video, but {{user|Toadette the Achiever}} [[User_talk:YoshiEgg1990#Images|told me]] that screenshots of game that are taken from a video are supposed to be licensed as game screenshots. So now i'm completly confused - how should it be? {{User:YoshiEgg1990/sig}} 18:56, 10 July 2018 (EDT)
:This is a murky situation - the game which is the content of the video is owned by Nintendo, but the gameplay is from a person, and the screenshot is taken from a video of the gameplay of said person. This is a different situation from that of screenshots of trailers made by Nintendo. I'm not sure there is a definitive answer to that, as the licenses don't really fit our use cases but rather Wikipedia's use cases. I prefer to remark it being from a video not made by me nor Nintendo for now, but if you take it from your own recorded footage, you can surely use the screenshot licensing.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:11, 10 July 2018 (EDT)

== I swear I don't know what happened with MK8 and the Blue Falcon ==
I just noticed your note on the MK8D edits list, and I was like "wat?". Like, seriously, what happened? I never noticed any problems on the Blue Falcon in MK8. [[User:Gold Luigi|Gold Luigi]] ([[User talk:Gold Luigi|talk]]) 03:33, 3 September 2018 (EDT)
:It's a case of DLC content that proved to be more competitive than the content available in version 1.0 on many tracks. Its addition however didn't lead to reset of Time Trials times. For this reason, the lack of Time Trials times reset in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe alone isn't a proof that the new content related to ''The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild'' has identical hidden stats to current material - that's a reasonable expectation based on how the Mario Kart team handled this kind of content. The issue I'm having is that I'm not being given the actual tables used by the game and without these, I can't put speculation - even though reasonable one - with actual data from the game and then pretending that everything is obtained from the game's files, I rather prefer posting the reasonable speculation before the table of the actual data from an earlier version of the game.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:43, 3 September 2018 (EDT)
::Yeah, but when you revert the game version back to 1.0, then-- oh. '''Now''' I get it. But when will you finally get the official stats for the ''Breath of the Wild'' parts? [[User:Gold Luigi|Gold Luigi]] ([[User talk:Gold Luigi|talk]]) 07:05, 3 September 2018 (EDT)

== Boom-Boom ==

The only official word we have is that they're the same. Also, it's more likely they're all the same, given [[Super Mario 3D Land|the previous]] [[Super Mario 3D World|and next]] games in the series to feature him have him as an individual character, and NSMBW is a terrible comparison, as the minibosses there were all definitively different for very obvious reasons. Is there anything claiming that they ''are'' different Boom-Booms in NSMBU? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:58, 6 September 2018 (EDT)
:Remember that we are talking about Mario, what you see takes priority over everything else due to specific design decisions (you can read a bit on that in the Mario-related Iwata Asks), so if you clearly see mutliple Boom Booms, there are multiple Boom Booms. After all, after ''Super Mario Advance 4'' hinted this, the last ''Mario & Sonic'' game and even ''Super Mario Run'' reconfirmed it. It's very good to report what PRIMA says, it's official and it makes for some interesting reading on how difficult it is to handle a blatantly lore-less franchise, still remember that in Japanese Boom Boom means both one single and multiple individuals, this causing lots of headaches to the translators who often are not given enough context to understand whether they are reading a proper name, a species name or even a term referred to multiple members of a species. Therefore, the info from Nintendo Co., Ltd. is often very difficult to decrypt - I'd be hardly surprised if they didn't care at all about these aspects! - and as such, we simply cannot read too much into this. Just say that the game shows multiple Boom Booms and the PRIMA guide says that they are the same character. If you're interested in this topic, the Nintendo Official Guidebook might be the next go-to source to see so we can collect more info to add on this part.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:18, 6 September 2018 (EDT)
::I still cannot see the map thing in any other way than simply an indicator of who the player will have to fight. It doesn't "blatantly" show that there are multiple individuals. It can be interpreted that way, but the only official word we have says they're one and the same. Are there three [[Jolene]]s in ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door''? No, but she shows up in three places at once. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:27, 6 September 2018 (EDT)
:::Again, multiple Boom Booms are shown in different locations at the same time, my point is that there's no need for a theory to reconcile this simple evidence with what the PRIMA guide says, especially because we have so far only one source on this specific game and lack further sources that might confirm or not said claim.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:46, 6 September 2018 (EDT)
::::Again, [[Jolene]]. One individual, in multiple places at once. The only official word that anyone here has apparently looked up says they're the same. Therefore, until further notice, they should be treated as the same individual. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:06, 6 September 2018 (EDT)
:::::Very different case, as you need to travel across the buidlings and rooms to see Jolene in the various contexts isntead of just looking at the map, most importantly a completely different game from even a different developer that didn't always strictly follow the guidelines of NCL - you know wthat when this happened from ''Sticker Star'' onwards the fans immediately noticed this shift -, I don't think you can really make a precedent out of this.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:46, 6 September 2018 (EDT)
::::::[[Daisy Garden|Petey Piranha, individual character]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:06, 7 September 2018 (EDT)
:::::::This is again a different situation simply because we are now certain that Boom Booms are a species, with both ''Super Mario Advance 4'' and ''Super Mario Run'' showing it clearly and ''Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games'' being clear as well. Just to be clear on this: I ''do'' want the statements of the PRIMA guide to be reported (by the way, it would be very important to add the actual quotes so it's possible to have a clearer idea on the claim), I just find it excessive to try to find an explanation on why multiple Boom Booms are seen on the screen at once yet the PRIMA guide identifies them as a sinagle character. I'm not sure if you're doing a research on the case of Boom Boom being a character and a species or on the cases of individual characters appearing in multiple places, if that's the case, I'd recommend obtaining material from the Nintendo Official Guidebooks.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:53, 7 September 2018 (EDT)

Sorry to interject, but for the record, the same ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' Prima guide '''also''' indicates that the game's generic Toads are the same character, which is a possible remnant of the fairly outdated "blue vest + red spots = it's always THE Toad" fan assertion that we might have helped popularize at one point (and make no mistake – we [http://www.dkvine.com/interactive/forums/index.php?s=c372b38140da7c8f6231cfdbbdae5b3a&showtopic=13535&view=findpost&p=481571 do] sometimes have a certain affect on sources such as Prima). Boom Boom especially has never been described consistently, with the older Nintendo Power volumes (including the original ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' guide as #13) referring to it in the plural sense but the manual instead using singular <small>(as with most enemies in classic Nintendo manuals, which is misleading, but still)</small>, to the exact opposite case seen in the ''Super Mario Advance 4'' guide and the ''Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition'' manual. In fact, the entire split was mostly over some silly edit warring that I'm sure is long-forgotten about by now, and was basically violating [[MarioWiki:Once and only once|once and only once]]. I will say, however, that Nintendo does appear to give different treatment to the spiked Boom Boom seen in most games and the spikeless Boom Boom first seen in ''Super Mario 3D Land'', both in the sense of its shell technically affecting the fight dynamic and in that it's paired with Pom Pom, who is generally[[Pom Pom#Super Mario 3D Land|*]] considered an individual character. Overall, while I believe these articles are in outstanding need of revision, I think it would be unwise to have a strict hardline approach to quick word choices that can change at a moment's notice on any given localizer’s whim; for that reason, I would argue that this isn't so much a widespread "character/species" issue, but an inconsistent "singular/plural" issue that is simply prevalent in so many Nintendo translations then and now. <small>(Additionally, I feel obligated to mention in the interest of disclosure and transparency that I had an interest in this topic a few years ago - while I feel many of my points there still stand, some misunderstood [[User:LinkTheLefty/Projects#Boom Boom: Take 2|my critique]] as a personal attack and frankly the fact that I came across as overly combative didn't help, so I'm not entirely happy with it and I've since dropped it... But if this discussion continues, I might have to overhaul it to be more presentable and up-to-date, especially since it is increasingly clear that this situation [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G59LgSoGQQ#t=100m38s is] [[List_of_Toad_profiles_and_statistics#Miis.27_Dialogues_.28Wii_U_version.29|far]] [[List_of_Yoshi_profiles_and_statistics#Miis.27_Dialogues_.28Wii_U_version.29|larger]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_45#Merge_M.26L_.28Dream_Team_and_Paper_Jam.29_and_PM_.28Sticker_Star.29_Wigglers_with_Wiggler|than]] [[Talk:General_Klump#Separation_from_regular_Klump|first]] [[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts_Page#Case_4:_Individuality_analysis:_Kamek|thought]].)</small> [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:05, 7 September 2018 (EDT)
:Effectively, Japanese conventions on plurals, as well as what happened in Europe with the use of the ''Kamek'' name and these statements from ''Mario & Sonic'' that for the first time tackled the issue of the ''Toad'' and ''Yoshi'' names, are raising a few interesting questions, due to how broad the consequences might be (just think at what happened with [[Dorrie]] and [[Draggadon]], to name recent examples) I don't think the wiki will be directly affected soon, still good luck with the research if you intend starting it again!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:53, 7 September 2018 (EDT)
:Thanks for reminding me of my Thoughts page. Truth to be told, when I look at the Kamek case I think I should revisit it and update it with potential new findings. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 06:28, 8 September 2018 (EDT)
::@Mister Wu - Thanks. That's more or less the gist of how things stand right now, and I suppose we'll see how things develop going forward (with any luck, perhaps a producer will save me the trouble and say it directly one of these days, but given the pushback that always seems to occur whenever Nintendo decides to tell their fans that they were wrong about something, maybe not)... Although, I believe I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I distinctly recall an official website from the 2000's first declaring Toads and Yoshis were never meant to be an individual recurring character and instead just a population of similar, likeminded species. It could merely be confabulation on my part, but the fact that it was/is an unpopular opinion on fan-sites and the eventual ''Mario & Sonic'' quotes are remarkably similar to what I remember reading makes me believe that it was real. Unfortunately, I've never been able to find a working archive; I'm fairly certain it's either [http://ms.nintendo-europe.com/mario/enGB/index.html Mario's Megasite] or [http://mario.nintendo.com/ Mario's World], but I'm unsure. At any rate, I don't think it necessarily means the wiki should mass-merge every generic character/species article together, but rather we must have more careful standards for what exactly constitutes a character from its species (like, for example, DiC's Toad from the western cartoons is obviously designed as a single character, as is Square's Toad from ''Super Mario RPG'' since he's the only one designated as such in that game, etc.).
::@SmokedChili - I want to add that, ignoring the Kamek/Magikoopa name and judging solely from in-game dialog, you can take the Kamek from the ''Yoshi's Island'' series and ''Partners in Time'' and the Kamek from ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'' as two separate but specific Kameks; I guess you might consider them "Kamek (''Yoshi'' franchise)" and "Kamek (''Paper Mario'' series)" if you'd like. The rest of the Magikoopas/Kameks seem relatively interchangeable and are fair game! Another thing you may find interesting is that the unused "Merlin" enemy from ''Super Mario RPG'', which is apparently the Magikoopa seen in the game's introductory demo, is actually called "Kamek" in the Japanese version, which may or may not be further evidence that Magikoopa/Kamezard was supposed to be the ''Yoshi's Island'' Kamek (personally, I take it to mean Square likely intended to have ordinary Magikoopas as regular enemies, explaining why other Magikoopas are seen but unfought as well as the Psychopath still strongly hinting that he is really the ''Yoshi's Island'' Kamek under a different name in the final). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:06, 8 September 2018 (EDT)

== Baku image ==

Hi, I managed to cleanly crop the background off of that, should I replace the other, upload separately so as to not interfere with the caption, or just not upload it? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:58, 7 December 2018 (EST)
:I'll go ahead and upload separately, so yours can stay in the talk page to illustrate your point better. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:37, 7 December 2018 (EST)