Editing User talk:KingArgorok

==Sign in==
Hello. Please remember to be signed in to your account here when making edits so they are attributed to one account. Additionally, please remember to sign your comments by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:42, 10 December 2017 (EST)

== Remakes and ports ==

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEbVnnrZNEE This link from the 2:01 to 2:20 mark] very clearly explains what is considered a remake or a port. Please don't switch the game listings around to different locations that very clearly '''''AREN'T''''' those kinds. ''All-Stars'' isn't a re-tool and ''Deluxe'' isn't an enhanced port (MK8 Deluxe is, but SMB Deluxe isn't). If you add those changes again, you might get a warning or even blocked. &ndash; [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 14:35, 9 January 2018 (EST)

That is a bad source.  A Link to the Past Four Swords is not a remake. It is an enhanced port. What defines a remake is being built from the ground up. Unless Super Mario Bros. Deluxe is built from the ground up, it is classified as an enhanced port.

== Incorrect information  ==

That is a bad source.  A Link to the Past Four Swords is not a remake. It is an enhanced port. What defines a remake is being built from the ground up. Unless Super Mario Bros. Deluxe is built from the ground up, it is classified as an enhanced port.  I recall reading that SMB all stars transferred the data from the original NES titles and updated them. That is by definition not a remake.

Here is one post from the comment section that I found:  

"A remake is when a game is made, again, from the ground up. Zelda 3 on GBA wasn't made from the ground-up, it is a port as the code of the SNES version was re-used for different hardware (and obviously changed to accommodate the transition).
It would be monumental waste of resources and times to remake a game so precisely instead of simply porting it.

Virtual console games aren't ports, they are emulations..."
:"BAD SOURCE?" It's not! That source clearly explains a lot of things. Oh, and also,
 [https://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:Reissue#do_your_research_before_placing_titles_in_these_categories Ultimate Mr. L's reply to you explains a lot of details in great detail.] I'm done talking about this. &ndash; [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 10:31, 11 January 2018 (EST)

I am not because you are wrong.  That video lacks research. He claims the VC games are ports when they are emulations.  OoT on the GCN is a port because the interface is different and it is accommodated for the controls.  The VC title is basically a legal ROM of the game. A remake would not have unused or dummied data.  That is an indicator the game is ported and ALttP on the GBA has that evidence.  
https://tcrf.net/Super_Mario_All-Stars#Old_Debug_Mode

I think you're making up definitions as you go. A "port" is ''generally defined'' as a game taken from one console to another without much significant difference. That's why the various low-quality ports of arcade games from the early 80s are considered ports (see [[gallery:Donkey Kong]] for what I mean by "low quality). Basically, "port" is an ''umbrella term'' for this type of thing, not a ''specific thing''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:36, 11 January 2018 (EST)

OoT on the GCN follows this definition.  The only thing that is changed is the button mapping HUD to match the control scheme. Twilight Princess on the Wii is another port to make use of the motion controls despite getting released a month before the GCN version.  ALttP is an enhanced port because it is adding new features to the game such as a bonus dungeon and side quests while updating the some gameplay features.  The level design has a few changes, but several overlooked bugs still exist.  Final Fantasy 4 3D is a remake.  This is not debatable especially because it is changing the game from 2D sprites to 3D polygons.  Most if not all VC games are emulations.

That doesn't matter. Your "definition" is too strict, and far from what everyone else is saying, including sources more reliable than your lack thereof. From what I can tell, you made up those definitions despite them being different from actual ones. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:01, 11 January 2018 (EST)

Uh no because the sources you are using are not reliable.  I have told you that a game that keeps its bugs and comes from the original program is not a remake.  Twilight Princess HD was called a remaster because TWWHD was erroneously referred to as a remake.  Also, I should add that some versions of game do have regional changes. Majora's Mask on the N64 has significant changes made in between the american and the Japanese release.  Adventure of Link also has the same situation.  All a port means is that it was moved to another console regardless of changes or not.  an emulation is preserving the game as it was originally played and is usually downloadable. Ports can have alterations, emulations rarely have any aside from bugfixes and minor patch updates.
:You say they're not reliable, but they're better than '''no''' sources, which is what you've provided. And while I agree with what you said regarding how much those games were changed between releases, that does not change the definition. If it's for the same console, they're considered different versions, but that's a different story entirely. That's where the decimal numbers (ie "version 2.008") come in. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:15, 11 January 2018 (EST)
and sometimes having sources with misinformation is worse.  the version number means it was an update. Link's Awakening DX is an updated re-release of Link's Awakening that was colorized with bonus content and new textures.  

The fact is though the games you categorize as ports and remakes have discrepancies, which is why you should do your own research before categorizing them instead of what someone says on youtube or posted on a wiki page.  And, furthermore, I have told you from my experiences even analyzing some of the games as to why they are not remakes.  OoT3D is up for debate, but it is probably leaning more towards being a remake due to the fact that some obscure glitches are not present and neither is the arwing.

"Your experiences" are not a source. Like I've said, both "port" and "remake" cover very wide definitions, much like the term "2.5D." And also the Gerudo head is present in the Iron Knuckle in OoT3D....but only the one that Nabooru actually comes out of, but still with the dead-eye expression. Just takes a bit of camera work since that one's almost always moving. ALSO: You say "instead of what someone says on youtube or posted on a wiki page"....while the only proof you give is.....what you posted on a wiki page. That's a tad hypocritical, no? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:22, 11 January 2018 (EST) 

Yes, they cover wide definitions and ALttP for the GBA is a port.  The Gerudo head from the Iron Knuckles means mothing because is the model used for the design.  As I have said before, a remake needs to be coded from scratch. A port however is not.  When a game is ported, its data is converted to fit on that platform.  An emulation is transferring data with no conversion in its original code. It is literally ripping the game's data from the native version unlike a port which needs to change it. an enhanced port is when the game is ported and undergoes new additions.  a remaster is enhancing the visuals, audio and performance. A remake is when the game is coded from scratch. It is usually faithful to the original otherwise it crosses the boundaries of a reimagining.  You are calling me hypocritical when I have done my research.  what is there not to grasp?  If you can find proof that the game was coded from scratch, then there is no debate that it is a remake. If the code was derived from the native release, then it is by definition a port regardless of what changes were made.
:If you've done research, CITE SOMETHING! You haven't cited a thing, and have given me NOTHING to trust your definitions over what's generally-accepted. Honestly, you might as well be saying "zelda's adventure is best gaem" with the amount of evidence you are ''not'' giving. You're just claiming everyone but you is wrong according to some "definitions" you honestly just seem to have made up. Find some ''hard text'' that backs up what you say. Until then, I'm done here. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:28, 12 January 2018 (EST)

What you are asking me to cite would require the data from the game itself.  go play ALttP on both versions and you see for yourself that these bugs still exist.
:'''Facepalm''' No, what I'm asking you to cite is a source for your asininely-specific definitions. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:16, 12 January 2018 (EST)

Go on forums that have these discussions and you will find those answers.
:That's not my responsibility. Every person I've ever met is not following your definition. You need to ''provide textual evidence'' or you will be ignored. Burden of proof goes on the person making the initial claim, not the one saying your claim is wrong. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 03:31, 12 January 2018 (EST)
And they are wrong because it should be common knowledge that these are the definitions.  Remaster and enhanced port are more of a grey line.  What is there not to understand that a remake does not mean content that was not added?  You can have a remake that is a near perfect replica because the game was coded from scratch. You can have a port where several changes were made and it is not much different patched updates and DLC.  A REMAKE NEEDS TO CODED FROM SCRATCH. IF NOT CODED FROM SCRATCH, IT IS BY DEFINITION NOT A REMAKE.  You can have partially remade content, but it is still not a full remake.  I can't find one specific source.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvzfrt02xqA

I gave a source from TCRF. Anyway in that RoR, one things that was said correctly was that a remake is a game coded from scratch, however, that was not the case for ALttP.  [[User:KingArgorok|KingArgorok]] ([[User talk:KingArgorok|talk]]) 09:25, 12 January 2018 (EST)

== Reminder ==

{{reminder|2=forgetting to sign your comments}}
Hello! Please remember to sign your comments using <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>, as mentioned above. Thanks! --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 13:47, 11 January 2018 (EST)

== Warning ==

{{warning|2=forgetting to sign your comments}}
You've already been reminded about this. Please remember to sign your comments, even those on your own talk page. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 06:07, 12 January 2018 (EST)

I did not know what you meant by signing comments.  

  [[User:KingArgorok|KingArgorok]] ([[User talk:KingArgorok|talk]]) 09:24, 12 January 2018 (EST)