Editing Template talk:Profiles and statistics

==The "profiles" in "profiles and statistics", or: how much is too much?==
{{talk}}
With the recent commotion surrounding the Mario Kart Tour icons, an idea was entertained by some users that material deemed excessive through one criterion or another should be subject to trimming, irrespective of said material's relevance to Mario or its official nature. For instance, the icons I mentioned are considered highly impractical for the purposes of this encyclopedia on account of their repetitiveness and overall failure to communicate any significant or interesting information, leading to some arguing having them removed altogether. Now, my intention here is not to shift discussions from one place to another, nor restate my personal beliefs on that particular topic--I just figured these controversial sentiments would segue into a potential talk about yet another aspect of the wiki that may be regarded as mere info dumping. Beyond archiving goals, what practical use does the sheer volume of descriptions on characters, enemies, and whatnot fulfil on an encyclopedia?

When it comes to character statistics--the other half treated by these lists--, I think most would agree they're useful to readers invested to some degree in a particular game's technical in-and-outs. Knowing Yoshi's speed and handling stats in Mario Kart 8 can offer them some perspective on how that character may play and, perhaps more down to brass tacks, whether they'll like using it in that game. Games tend to have different engines, gameplay styles, and mechanics, justifying the need to present that character's stats across titles.

One could argue that having a commons for Yoshi's bios across games and adjacent material is similarly useful to more lore-oriented readers, or even editors per se, either for cross-referencing or for sheer entertainment. However, I noticed that a lot of these bios (or descriptions, or profiles, however you want to call them) tend to recycle talking points on that subject's appearance and roles. Yoshi is speedy, he is Mario's trustworthy companion, he loves eating. Wario is greedy, gluttony, sometimes he runs a company, goes treasure-hunting, or hangs out with Waluigi. Super Mushrooms make Mario grow. Coins add points and an extra life when you grab 100 of them. Stars make you invincible...... You can see where I'm getting at. And even when a bio is more particular about a character's gameplay in some game, it's virtually expected you'll find it in proper, user-generated articles. The point I'm making is that these profiles, collectively and severed from statistics, may well be regarded as fragmented duplicates of actual articles' contents.

I have contributed a bunch to these pages myself, as I admit my view of the Mario Wiki that is that it's on one hand an encyclopedia, with all of the condensed, curated information one entails, and on the other hand an archive of sorts, a place where readers may explore and reference material as it is originally presented--imagine, if you will, a hybrid of Wikipedia and Wikiquote. Others, however, may not see it in this way, and I'd like to invite discussion on the subject. <small>(Especially since I'd like to know if it's worth dedicating more time into this endeavor.)</small> {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:26, May 14, 2024 (EDT)
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 ==The "profiles" in "profiles and statistics", or: how much is too much?==
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-'''''TL;DR''''' These bios may be fun to have and read but don't otherwise add a whole lot to the knowledge base. Albeit they count as source material, the way they co-exist with content articles could make them look superfluous to some.
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 With the recent commotion surrounding the Mario Kart Tour icons, an idea was entertained by some users that material deemed excessive through one criterion or another should be subject to trimming, irrespective of said material's relevance to Mario or its official nature. For instance, the icons I mentioned are considered highly impractical for the purposes of this encyclopedia on account of their repetitiveness and overall failure to communicate any significant or interesting information, leading to some arguing having them removed altogether. Now, my intention here is not to shift discussions from one place to another, nor restate my personal beliefs on that particular topic--I just figured these controversial sentiments would segue into a potential talk about yet another aspect of the wiki that may be regarded as mere info dumping. Beyond archiving goals, what practical use does the sheer volume of descriptions on characters, enemies, and whatnot fulfil on an encyclopedia?
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 I have contributed a bunch to these pages myself, as I admit my view of the Mario Wiki that is that it's on one hand an encyclopedia, with all of the condensed, curated information one entails, and on the other hand an archive of sorts, a place where readers may explore and reference material as it is originally presented--imagine, if you will, a hybrid of Wikipedia and Wikiquote. Others, however, may not see it in this way, and I'd like to invite discussion on the subject. <small>(Especially since I'd like to know if it's worth dedicating more time into this endeavor.)</small> {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:26, May 14, 2024 (EDT)
-:I see it the same way, but throw in a bit of Fandom for the user pages and user talk pages. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 08:48, May 15, 2024 (EDT)
-::Intrinsically, I think game profiles are fun. More substantively, they sometimes provide in-game details otherwise hard to acquire or independently verify, and that's important considering we don't provide citations for details easily verified in game. What is "easy" can be a little subjective. Additionally - as you mention - it is contextually helpful when writing the main game articles to know the language used in the game itself. They can clarify a perceived behavior, intention, or relationships otherwise vague. Nice reference material. The redundancy of some profiles is a tool too, as it conveys what the most important traits of a subject are, as well as lets us know if a major change has occurred for it in the primary literature.
-::I'm less sure if profiles need to be pulled from websites, digital storefronts like the eShop, and Prima guides (i.e., guidebooks that are officially licensed, but are third party), but that is my subjective opinion. I think profiles from instruction booklets, electronics manuals, and Nintendo Power guidebooks are fine, for example. I can see others feeling differently. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:25, May 16, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Profiles from licensed guides should IMO be subjected to the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/66#Remove_profiles_and_certain_other_content_related_to_the_Super_Mario_Bros._Encyclopedia_from_the_wiki|same scrutiny as SMB Encyclopedia content]] ''if'' (among probably other reasons I'm too legally illiterate to name) the guides are still actively being sold, either in physical or digital format. For that reason, I'd personally discourage pulling a substantial amount of information from the books in [https://eguides.primagames.com/search?q=mario these] [https://eguides.primagames.com/search?q=donkey+kong lists] <small>(primagames.com)</small>. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:42, May 16, 2024 (EDT)
-::::Yeah, I agree. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 10:57, May 17, 2024 (EDT)
-::::Update on that: it seems like they've made the digital guides unavailable for purchase, as clicking them on those lists leads to a 404 error. That should probably lessen the legal constraints of hosting their content here if Prima doesn't also provide a physical form. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 10:11, May 26, 2024 (EDT)
-::I don't think profiles and statistics need to be removed. They're fun reads (profiles), provide useful information (stats) and keeping them all in one place for certain subjects is overall very convenient for both readers and writers. Basically, I agree with what Nintendo101 said on the matter. {{User:Arend/sig}} 18:57, May 16, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Profiles have information, usually just summarizing succinctly what our articles provide (with some flavor; think of it as quotations) but sometimes they do provide explicit word on certain details of characters. Other times, it's helpful seeing what archetypes these characters have; you see Mario's stats aren't always distributed evenly. For instance, Luigi's page iterates twin information very frequently and it's easier to find the information on this page than, say, tucked behind two references inside Luigi's article. {{User:Mario/sig}} 23:10, May 22, 2024 (EDT)