Editing Template talk:Another language

== Text ==

I think the text for this template can be shorter. When research had to be done to find an official name in another language, it is very unlikely that an official English name will ever be found unless the respective subject reappears in a new game and gets named in the English version. For example, most of those ''Wario Land'' enemies left unnamed in English have only appeared in a single game and it isn't very likely that any of them will reappear. So we could just write "The title of this article is official, but comes from a '''non-English source''', as no official English name is known." Opinions? --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 10:50, 23 February 2010 (EST)
:I agree. --{{User:Tucayo/sig}} 15:52, 8 April 2010 (EDT)

:Maybe even drop the last part?  "The title of this article is official, but comes from a '''non-English source'''." [[User:Culex|Culex]] 23:16, 8 April 2010 (EDT)
::Nah, it would make it seem like the foreign name would be stuck to the article. {{User:Reversinator/sig}}
:::So, would "The title of this article is official, but comes from a '''non-English source''', as no official English name is known." be okay? --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 08:28, 5 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Yep. {{User:Reversinator/sig}}


== Exceptions? ==

Does anyone else thinks it's ''silly'' to put this template atop the pages for medias like ''[[Doki Doki Panic]]'' and ''[[La planète de Donkey Kong]]''? It makes sense to have something to flag elements like enemies and objects in a game, a sign that says "Hey, we don't have an englisn name for this enemy yet. Maybe someone could check if this thing is mentioned in an english strategy guide or a website?", but putting this template for works of fiction whose "foreign" name is so well-known it would be counter-productive to try to translate it at this point (as with ''Doki Doki Panic'') or a programming block that, due to its very nature, is never going to be translated in another language and given an official english title (as with ''DKTV''), because "they're not in english" is short-sighted and obscures the purpose of the template. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 15:41, 5 June 2018 (EDT)
:I agree with this. Drop it from foreign media places with official names like [[Super Mario-Kun]] or your aforementioned examples. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 15:51, 5 June 2018 (EDT)
::And maybe, in the future, have more quality control for this template, including using scenarios in which this template should and should not be used. Plus, Super Mario Kun '''is''' the manga's English name, or at least so it says in ''Super Mario Maker'', so we could remove the template there for starters. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 18:06, 5 June 2018 (EDT)
:::I definitely agree with making an exception for foreign media articles, since the template asks for an English source, which may not be possible in those cases. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 09:38, 6 June 2018 (EDT)
I agree that there are foreign subjects that are just never going to have official English names, and renaming the likes of ''[[Kaettekita Mario Bros.]]'' to "''Mario Bros. have returned''" or calling [[Donkey Konga 3: Tabehōdai! Haru Mogitate 50 Kyoku|the third ''Donkey Konga'' game]] "''Donkey Konga 3 JP''" would look silly, especially since those games themselves have not been localized. On the other hand, unacknowledging when the article names are clearly foreign would also seem to be a glaring omission. Why not go about splitting "another language" into two separate templates: one for '''franchise content''' (ie. characters, locations, items, etc.) and another for '''product titles''' (ie. games, shows, books, etc.)? That way, they're explicitly held to different standards. If not a template, maybe at least a category? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:00, 6 June 2018 (EDT)
::::I'd be all for that as well. Perhaps I'll start drafting a proposal concerning this. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 13:07, 6 June 2018 (EDT)
:::::Another reason I think these changes are tangible is because of one ''Super Mario Maker'' level that uses the Japanese title in the English game: [[Keshigomu Sanjō!]] That's not to mention that several other levels in the game, such as [[Updog]] and [[Parallel World]], use the English title in the Japanese game. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 13:16, 6 June 2018 (EDT)

I'd like to keep clutter as low as possible. In my mind, giving examples of unacceptable uses on the text of the template page and perhaps rewriting the template to explain it's meant to be for franchise content where an english translation can reasonably expected to be found and not just subjects whose name is literally written in another language (which would extent my propose to the afore-linked ''Super Mario Maker'' level) would work. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 11:03, 8 June 2018 (EDT)

== Expanding the template ==

{{talk}}
There are two cases in which the template is used, but the wording is inappropriate. One of these, discussed above, are names that are exclusively in a foreign language, like those of material published exclusively in Japan, that never got and will likely never get an English name. In these case I think a parameter should be used so that the text after ''The title of this article is official, but it comes from a non-English source'' is changed to ''as the subject has no official English name''. Similarly, there are cases in which the non-English name was chosen because the English name had issues like being generic (moles, turtles) or misleading (Cheep Cheep used for a very different object). In these cases, I think the same parameter should be used to change the wording into ''because the English name had issues.'' The article should then include the English name in the introduction. Both these alternatives would avoid adding the ''Articles with titles from other languages'' category, since there's simply no immediate need to improve these pages and they would detract the attention from the pages in which a proper English name is actually needed. What are your opinions on the matter?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:03, April 11, 2019 (EDT)
:Interesting scenario... I'm not too sure how to proceed either. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:39, April 12, 2019 (EDT)
::Maybe "If an ''acceptable'' official name from an english source is found, the article should be moved to its appropriate title."? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 04:35, April 15, 2019 (EDT)
:::That is a change that makes it in line with the recent proposal on lower priority sources, and as such we can already apply it (and if we do that, I'd personally like adding a bit as well that states how acceptability of a name is not arbitrary concept, but rather something that has to be discussed). Still, it wouldn't solve the issue of adding the page to the pages that require maintenance; plus, in the two latter cases mentioned by me, these templates are added after the various English sources have been examined, otherwise there wouldn't be the need to expand the template as its wording would pretty much fit its role: finding a valid English name from a source that is known to exists, but hasn't been read yet.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:31, April 15, 2019 (EDT)
@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 == Expanding the template ==
+{{talk}}
 There are two cases in which the template is used, but the wording is inappropriate. One of these, discussed above, are names that are exclusively in a foreign language, like those of material published exclusively in Japan, that never got and will likely never get an English name. In these case I think a parameter should be used so that the text after ''The title of this article is official, but it comes from a non-English source'' is changed to ''as the subject has no official English name''. Similarly, there are cases in which the non-English name was chosen because the English name had issues like being generic (moles, turtles) or misleading (Cheep Cheep used for a very different object). In these cases, I think the same parameter should be used to change the wording into ''because the English name had issues.'' The article should then include the English name in the introduction. Both these alternatives would avoid adding the ''Articles with titles from other languages'' category, since there's simply no immediate need to improve these pages and they would detract the attention from the pages in which a proper English name is actually needed. What are your opinions on the matter?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:03, April 11, 2019 (EDT)
 :Interesting scenario... I'm not too sure how to proceed either. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:39, April 12, 2019 (EDT)
 ::Maybe "If an ''acceptable'' official name from an english source is found, the article should be moved to its appropriate title."? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 04:35, April 15, 2019 (EDT)
 :::That is a change that makes it in line with the recent proposal on lower priority sources, and as such we can already apply it (and if we do that, I'd personally like adding a bit as well that states how acceptability of a name is not arbitrary concept, but rather something that has to be discussed). Still, it wouldn't solve the issue of adding the page to the pages that require maintenance; plus, in the two latter cases mentioned by me, these templates are added after the various English sources have been examined, otherwise there wouldn't be the need to expand the template as its wording would pretty much fit its role: finding a valid English name from a source that is known to exists, but hasn't been read yet.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:31, April 15, 2019 (EDT)
-::::I'm not sure either. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 06:59, May 14, 2019 (EDT)
-== Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia ==
-But the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia uses stuff from the wiki  {{User:NatsMario2011/sig}} 23:17, May 19, 2022 (EDT)
-:Assuming you want us to use the Encyclopedia, there's a problem: if we used the Encyclopedia, we'd basically be citing ourselves. There's a comic on [https://xkcd.com/978/ xkcd.com] that perfectly demonstrates the problem at hand. We already have the issue of Nintendo's mobile division [https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-america-contractors-full-time-complaints-report using fan wikis for profiles and whatnot], I don't think we need to worsen the problem by citing the Encyclopedia. Other wikis are free to decide on their encyclopedia counterpart, but this Encyclopedia was caught using names from this wiki, hence why it was then decided via a proposal to ban its use. {{User:PanchamBro/sig}} 01:21, May 20, 2022 (EDT)
-::That's what i'm saying {{User:NatsMario2011/sig}} 22:34, May 20, 2022 (EDT)
-:::Didyouknowgaming talked about it [https://youtu.be/89wndrUo__k?t=510 here] --{{User:NatsMario2011/sig}} 22:38, May 20, 2022 (EDT)
-::::I'm confused about what you are arguing here then. What do you want us to do in regards to the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia? {{User:PanchamBro/sig}} 23:02, May 20, 2022 (EDT)
-== Wording... ==
-The current wording implies that pretty much every subject using this template is covered in SMBE. Shall we change the wording? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:26, October 15, 2023 (EDT)
-:That bit about the Encyclopedia should probably be removed, due to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/60#Partially unban citing the English version of the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia as official names for subjects|this proposal]] from last year. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 11:55, October 15, 2023 (EDT)
-::I agree. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:28, October 15, 2023 (EDT)