Editing Talk:Yoshi
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Ok, does anyone know what Yoshi TRUELY has on his back. Is it a shell or a saddle. I know that in the first appearance of yoshi, the "thing(saddle or shell)" was shown with stirrups attached to it. But now in later games, the "thing" is actualy shown increible round, and no saddle is round. That defeats he purpose. HELP!! [[User:Mariomadness8|Mariomadness8]] | Ok, does anyone know what Yoshi TRUELY has on his back. Is it a shell or a saddle. I know that in the first appearance of yoshi, the "thing(saddle or shell)" was shown with stirrups attached to it. But now in later games, the "thing" is actualy shown increible round, and no saddle is round. That defeats he purpose. HELP!! [[User:Mariomadness8|Mariomadness8]] | ||
:I don't think it's ever been confirmed if it's a saddle or shell. Seeing as it can't be taken off (or so it seems), I would say more like a shell. A shell that stays on a Yoshi for the rest of their lives. BUT we really don't know. <span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>·</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>·</tt></small> | :I don't think it's ever been confirmed if it's a saddle or shell. Seeing as it can't be taken off (or so it seems), I would say more like a shell. A shell that stays on a Yoshi for the rest of their lives. BUT we really don't know. http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>·</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>·</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif | ||
::A shell would be something hard for Mario to sit on though. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 20:20, 8 March 2008 (EST) | ::A shell would be something hard for Mario to sit on though. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 20:20, 8 March 2008 (EST) | ||
:::I remember it officially being called a saddle, never a shell. Shouldn't tell you which game, though. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 20:31, 8 March 2008 (EST) | :::I remember it officially being called a saddle, never a shell. Shouldn't tell you which game, though. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 20:31, 8 March 2008 (EST) | ||
::::Stumpers it sounds like you don't want to tell us. <span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>·</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>·</tt></small> | ::::Stumpers it sounds like you don't want to tell us. http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>·</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>·</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif | ||
:::::The official German Club Nintendo mag (issue 4/1992) also calls it a saddle: <blockquote>He's wearing jump boots and he has a saddle on his back. He's green and very hungry. He's a dinosaur and Mario's best friend. He's good, because he's YOSHI!!!</blockquote> (translated from German.) {{User:Time Q/sig}} 09:38, 17 March 2008 (EDT) | :::::The official German Club Nintendo mag (issue 4/1992) also calls it a saddle: <blockquote>He's wearing jump boots and he has a saddle on his back. He's green and very hungry. He's a dinosaur and Mario's best friend. He's good, because he's YOSHI!!!</blockquote> (translated from German.) {{User:Time Q/sig}} 09:38, 17 March 2008 (EDT) | ||
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== no category? == | == no category? == | ||
why does it appears as a no category page in the wikimaintenance? -- | why does it appears as a no category page in the wikimaintenance? --http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1526/tucayosz9.png 18:08, 12 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
:I honestly have no idea... {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 09:14, 29 July 2008 (EDT) | :I honestly have no idea... {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 09:14, 29 July 2008 (EDT) | ||
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This information is highly false, and I (like anyone) can prove it. I've got a specific screenshot from [[Super Mario World]] in which Mario signals Yoshi to stick its tongue out while the player presses the ↑ (Up) button (so Yoshi will stick its tongue higher than the usual): http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HuVp506Cl2w/S9swSdT1z4I/AAAAAAAAF-Q/tX76gLCikY8/s400/SMW_MarioPunch.PNG That screenshot can be seen by anyone who pays some extra attention to the game's frame rate. Slowing down the game's emulation speed may be the key to unmask such a terrible myth. | This information is highly false, and I (like anyone) can prove it. I've got a specific screenshot from [[Super Mario World]] in which Mario signals Yoshi to stick its tongue out while the player presses the ↑ (Up) button (so Yoshi will stick its tongue higher than the usual): http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HuVp506Cl2w/S9swSdT1z4I/AAAAAAAAF-Q/tX76gLCikY8/s400/SMW_MarioPunch.PNG That screenshot can be seen by anyone who pays some extra attention to the game's frame rate. Slowing down the game's emulation speed may be the key to unmask such a terrible myth. | ||
I propose that information, being proven wrong, to be removed from the "Trivia" section. {{User| | I propose that information, being proven wrong, to be removed from the "Trivia" section. {{User|Jardim}} | ||
:You can just remove it. {{User|Yoshi876}} | :You can just remove it. {{User|Yoshi876}} | ||
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==Bias== | ==Bias== | ||
What is Bias? [[User:Kirby kart|Kirby kart]] | What is Bias? [[User:Kirby kart|Kirby kart]] | ||
==Wait, Yoshi The Character appears in Yoshi's New Island?== | ==Wait, Yoshi The Character appears in Yoshi's New Island?== | ||
I thought ''Yoshi's New Island'' took place on [[Egg Island]], a different location from [[Yoshi's Island ( | I thought ''Yoshi's New Island'' took place on [[Egg Island]], a different location from [[Yoshi's Island (place)|Yoshi's Island]], and would thus feature a different bunch of Yoshis. What would make the green Yoshi appearing in that game The Yoshi? [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk: SmokedChili|Talk]]) | ||
([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 17:23, 5 August 2014 (EDT) | ([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 17:23, 5 August 2014 (EDT) | ||
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== ''Yoshi'' edits (continued) == | == ''Yoshi'' edits (continued) == | ||
{{talk}} | |||
OK, guys, this is a discussion started on [[User:7feetunder|7feetunder]]'s talk page, and it concerns this: is Yoshi an actual character in ''New Super Mario Bros Wii''? Share your thoughts below.{{unsigned|Skuchi037}} | OK, guys, this is a discussion started on [[User:7feetunder|7feetunder]]'s talk page, and it concerns this: is Yoshi an actual character in ''New Super Mario Bros Wii''? Share your thoughts below.{{unsigned|Skuchi037}} | ||
:[[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] brought this up on my talk page: [[Toad]]'s article has a "possible appearances" section, which exists to deal with the similar issue of determining whether or not appearances of generic red-spotted [[Toad (species)|Toads]] are ''the'' Toad. I think the addition of such a section to this article would be helpful, since there's no real evidence to confirm nor debunk Yoshi appearing in ''NSMBWii''/''NSMBU''. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 01:07, 2 August 2017 (EDT) | :[[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] brought this up on my talk page: [[Toad]]'s article has a "possible appearances" section, which exists to deal with the similar issue of determining whether or not appearances of generic red-spotted [[Toad (species)|Toads]] are ''the'' Toad. I think the addition of such a section to this article would be helpful, since there's no real evidence to confirm nor debunk Yoshi appearing in ''NSMBWii''/''NSMBU''. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 01:07, 2 August 2017 (EDT) | ||
::All I have to say is....if it's the same Yoshi, why does it hatch multiple times? Bowser trapped him in the egg ''once''. I'm not buying it. Also, I think I've gotten two green Yoshis in single player of NSMBW through some glitch. It seems to be more of a case a la "The Big Boo": different individuals, or even a species, are referred to in a singular sense, such as how the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' manual says "Yoshi's back, so saddle up!"{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 00:34, 2 August 2017 (CT) | ::All I have to say is....if it's the same Yoshi, why does it hatch multiple times? Bowser trapped him in the egg ''once''. I'm not buying it. Also, I think I've gotten two green Yoshis in single player of NSMBW through some glitch. It seems to be more of a case a la "The Big Boo": different individuals, or even a species, are referred to in a singular sense, such as how the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' manual says "Yoshi's back, so saddle up!"{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 00:34, 2 August 2017 (CT) | ||
:::I never liked the "possible appearances" section on Toad's page. All of it is too speculative, relying too much on maybes without offering anything definitive in return. If we don't know if if a given Toad is ''the'' Toad, I'd rather that we cover it on the [[Toad (species)]] article and refrain from potentially misleading readers or any unnecessary speculation. This also applies to this article, with any uncertain appearances being listed on [[Green Yoshi]]. If the information is still accessible, but in a different place that doesn't require us to say "possibly" in every sentence, then I don't see the problem. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 01:42, 2 August 2017 (EDT) | :::I never liked the "possible appearances" section on Toad's page. All of it is too speculative, relying too much on maybes without offering anything definitive in return. If we don't know if if a given Toad is ''the'' Toad, I'd rather that we cover it on the [[Toad (species)]] article and refrain from potentially misleading readers or any unnecessary speculation. This also applies to this article, with any uncertain appearances being listed on [[Green Yoshi]]. If the information is still accessible, but in a different place that doesn't require us to say "possibly" in every sentence, then I don't see the problem. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 01:42, 2 August 2017 (EDT) | ||
::::There was a proposal for possible appearances [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | ::::There was a proposal for possible appearances [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_39#Separating_confirmed_and_possible_generic-looking_character_appearances|here]]. The idea evolved from an earlier discussion I brought forth, which is also linked in that proposal for reference. It's an improvement over Toad's old confusion with appearances section, but it could probably be much better condensed for something marked with uncertainty. An outright removal may be unwise for the reasons mentioned back then, so definitely check it out if you need to see where it's coming from. Either way - looking back, the proposal should have actually covered all similar character/species articles, but it seems that just didn't happen for some reason I can only guess. If we're going to start somewhere, I suppose now would be a good time to start with Yoshi. Better late than never. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 03:07, 2 August 2017 (EDT) | ||
:::::I understand that, but at the same time, I still think that some of the sections are unnecessary. A few of them could be outright moved to the official history section, like Super Mario 64 and Superstar Saga (they even have citations!), but then there's stuff like the Super Mario Bros. section, which states that "it is often assumed" without offering any logical or reasonable explanation, or the inclusion of [[Captain Toad]], when [[Talk:Captain Toad#confirmed: Captain Toad is not toad|it's already been confirmed]] that Captain Toad and regular Toad are separate characters. It could do with some clean-up, at the very least. In any case, if we're pushing forward with adding the section to other articles, how many would actually be affected? Besides Toad, there's obviously Yoshi, and maybe [[Birdo]], but I can't think of any other examples. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:12, 2 August 2017 (EDT) | :::::I understand that, but at the same time, I still think that some of the sections are unnecessary. A few of them could be outright moved to the official history section, like Super Mario 64 and Superstar Saga (they even have citations!), but then there's stuff like the Super Mario Bros. section, which states that "it is often assumed" without offering any logical or reasonable explanation, or the inclusion of [[Captain Toad]], when [[Talk:Captain Toad#confirmed: Captain Toad is not toad|it's already been confirmed]] that Captain Toad and regular Toad are separate characters. It could do with some clean-up, at the very least. In any case, if we're pushing forward with adding the section to other articles, how many would actually be affected? Besides Toad, there's obviously Yoshi, and maybe [[Birdo]], but I can't think of any other examples. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:12, 2 August 2017 (EDT) | ||
::::::''Super Mario 64'' and ''Superstar Saga'' (and to a lesser extent, ''Super Mario Bros. 3'') have citations, so at face value they seemingly don't belong in the section, but at the same time, they're openly conflicting – they just don't agree with each other on which Toad is considered ''the'' Toad (if such a concept is even still relevant in the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G59LgSoGQQ#t=100m38s "current story"], but I digress). They're there because the internal inconsistencies among sources make those appearances inconclusive, and thus more likely as the result of writer's whim or localization oversight than any deliberate reason. The wordy rationale can definitely be trimmed, though, as well as mentions of Captain Toad since that's already been decided and is somewhat padding. I think ''Super Mario Bros.'' is included because certain official profiles count it as Toad's first appearance (albeit not defining the distinction between the character and species). As for other articles, [[Kamek]] technically qualifies, and I can think of [[Boom Boom|one more]]. There are several others such as Mouser, Fryguy, Luma, Polterpup and all the ''Mario Party Advance'' characters, but those articles are also a lot shorter and have a clearer grasp of the subject. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:15, 2 August 2017 (EDT) | ::::::''Super Mario 64'' and ''Superstar Saga'' (and to a lesser extent, ''Super Mario Bros. 3'') have citations, so at face value they seemingly don't belong in the section, but at the same time, they're openly conflicting – they just don't agree with each other on which Toad is considered ''the'' Toad (if such a concept is even still relevant in the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G59LgSoGQQ#t=100m38s "current story"], but I digress). They're there because the internal inconsistencies among sources make those appearances inconclusive, and thus more likely as the result of writer's whim or localization oversight than any deliberate reason. The wordy rationale can definitely be trimmed, though, as well as mentions of Captain Toad since that's already been decided and is somewhat padding. I think ''Super Mario Bros.'' is included because certain official profiles count it as Toad's first appearance (albeit not defining the distinction between the character and species). As for other articles, [[Kamek]] technically qualifies, and I can think of [[Boom Boom|one more]]. There are several others such as Mouser, Fryguy, Luma, Polterpup and all the ''Mario Party Advance'' characters, but those articles are also a lot shorter and have a clearer grasp of the subject. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:15, 2 August 2017 (EDT) | ||
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{{talk}} | {{talk}} | ||
The way this article is currently written, the green Yoshi from ''Yoshi's Island'', ''Yoshi Touch & Go'', ''Yoshi's Island DS'', ''Yoshi's New Island'', ''Yoshi's Woolly World'', and ''Yoshi's Crafted World'' (and ''Yoshi's Story'' if one counts the current category and statements such as "Yoshi has been voiced by Kazumi Totaka since ''Yoshi's Story''") is "Yoshi". However, in all these games, "Yoshi" refers to any given playable Yoshi, not any one in particular. In the ''Yoshi's Island'' games, text from Kamek and Message Blocks will basically refer to any color as "Yoshi", and this is more noticeable in the ''Yoshi's ''x'' World'' games, where the player can select whichever Yoshi they want yet dialog from more characters such as Baby Bowser and Blockafellers will always simply refer to "Yoshi" as his name. Additionally, Egg Island and Craft Island are implied to feature an entirely different set of Yoshis than the ones that live on Yoshi's Island, and the ending of ''Yoshi's Island DS'' reveals a baby green Yoshi as one of the star children, suggesting that he will be the main Yoshi that later appears in ''Super Mario World'', ''Super Mario RPG'', ''Super Mario 64'', etc. Instruction booklets also refer to the player's Yoshi as "Yoshi" in general, not a specific green Yoshi. The green Yoshi tends to be the "starting Yoshi" (and the "ending Yoshi" in ''Yoshi's Island'' games), but I think that's mostly because it's the most recognizable color. So what can be done to better reflect the games here? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:00, September 6, 2020 (EDT) | The way this article is currently written, the green Yoshi from ''Yoshi's Island'', ''Yoshi Touch & Go'', ''Yoshi's Island DS'', ''Yoshi's New Island'', ''Yoshi's Woolly World'', and ''Yoshi's Crafted World'' (and ''Yoshi's Story'' if one counts the current category and statements such as "Yoshi has been voiced by Kazumi Totaka since ''Yoshi's Story''") is "Yoshi". However, in all these games, "Yoshi" refers to any given playable Yoshi, not any one in particular. In the ''Yoshi's Island'' games, text from Kamek and Message Blocks will basically refer to any color as "Yoshi", and this is more noticeable in the ''Yoshi's ''x'' World'' games, where the player can select whichever Yoshi they want yet dialog from more characters such as Baby Bowser and Blockafellers will always simply refer to "Yoshi" as his name. Additionally, Egg Island and Craft Island are implied to feature an entirely different set of Yoshis than the ones that live on Yoshi's Island, and the ending of ''Yoshi's Island DS'' reveals a baby green Yoshi as one of the star children, suggesting that he will be the main Yoshi that later appears in ''Super Mario World'', ''Super Mario RPG'', ''Super Mario 64'', etc. Instruction booklets also refer to the player's Yoshi as "Yoshi" in general, not a specific green Yoshi. The green Yoshi tends to be the "starting Yoshi" (and the "ending Yoshi" in ''Yoshi's Island'' games), but I think that's mostly because it's the most recognizable color. So what can be done to better reflect the games here? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:00, September 6, 2020 (EDT) | ||
:Indeed, that’s [[List of Yoshi profiles and statistics#Miis' Dialogues (Wii U version)|what ''Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games'' was trying to say]]: any colored Yoshi can be referred to as ''Yoshi'', and {{ | :Indeed, that’s [[List of Yoshi profiles and statistics#Miis' Dialogues (Wii U version)|what ''Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games'' was trying to say]]: any colored Yoshi can be referred to as ''Yoshi'', and {{media link|MCDSZ SMW Yoshi.png|recently the ''Super Mario World'' Yoshi has been referred to as a green Yoshi}}. And regarding the green Yoshi being always the same character, Nintendo loves to play around this concept too. An example: the Yoshi found on top of Peach’s Castle in ''Super Mario Odyssey'' is a clear reference to the Yoshi of ''Super Mario 64'', who himself hinted at the adventures of ''Super Mario World''. And the ''Super Mario World'' Yoshi’s house is indeed found near Peach’s Castle in ''Super Mario Odyssey''. The circle might seem closed but if you think about that, Yoshi’s house was in Yoshi’s Island, surely not near Peach’s Castle in ''Super Mario 64'' whose surroundings were in any case very different from what we saw in ''Super Mario Odyssey''. All of a sudden we find ourselves in a different continuity and that Yoshi can be a counterpart at best, if we used a “canonical” approach. Ultimately, this character/species interchangeability is not intuitive for us, ideally the character/species template should start helping us in dealing with this but I think we agreed on a limited use for pages like Dorrie or Draggadon at the moment, to see if we can approach this unintuitive issue. As to what we can do now, if I remember correctly Doc already added in the introduction how Yoshi might sometimes be a different Yoshi from the one seen in ''Super Mario World'', we might review the wording but I’m not sure if we can do much more right now.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 14:29, September 6, 2020 (EDT) | ||
::Adding to this, the [https://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Nintendo_N64/Manual/formated/Yoshi-s_Story_-_1998_-_Nintendo.pdf ''Yoshi's Story'' manual] refers to any given Yoshi simply as "Yoshi," which combined with Baby Bowser derisively calling any of them "Mario's pet" despite them essentially having just hatched, shows that even then consistency with individuality wasn't a concern. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:37, September 6, 2020 (EDT) | ::Adding to this, the [https://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Nintendo_N64/Manual/formated/Yoshi-s_Story_-_1998_-_Nintendo.pdf ''Yoshi's Story'' manual] refers to any given Yoshi simply as "Yoshi," which combined with Baby Bowser derisively calling any of them "Mario's pet" despite them essentially having just hatched, shows that even then consistency with individuality wasn't a concern. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:37, September 6, 2020 (EDT) | ||
:I feel like [https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/09/10/miyamoto-tezuka-interview.aspx this interview with ''Game Informer''] is a bit relevant. According to Miyamoto, the way ''Mario'' characters are used internally is more like that of a theatre troupe than of defined, strict roles one may expect from a long-running series like this. This may be a stretch, but I am inclined to think this is directly reflective to how they approach game design and how they integrate their characters within each game: it is okay if explicit details are contradicting within each installment or are ambiguous because strict continuity is not a priority. Making something fun is. As a consequence, explicit details that may make it unclear if the green dinosaur from ''Yoshi's Story'', ''SMW'', ''SMS'', ''SMG2'', ''SMO'' etc. are all the same individual do not necessarily mean they are not the same individual "character", in my opinion. I hope that makes sense. -- [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:45, January 13, 2021 (EST) | :I feel like [https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/09/10/miyamoto-tezuka-interview.aspx this interview with ''Game Informer''] is a bit relevant. According to Miyamoto, the way ''Mario'' characters are used internally is more like that of a theatre troupe than of defined, strict roles one may expect from a long-running series like this. This may be a stretch, but I am inclined to think this is directly reflective to how they approach game design and how they integrate their characters within each game: it is okay if explicit details are contradicting within each installment or are ambiguous because strict continuity is not a priority. Making something fun is. As a consequence, explicit details that may make it unclear if the green dinosaur from ''Yoshi's Story'', ''SMW'', ''SMS'', ''SMG2'', ''SMO'' etc. are all the same individual do not necessarily mean they are not the same individual "character", in my opinion. I hope that makes sense. -- [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:45, January 13, 2021 (EST) | ||