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| [[User:Pichufan93|Pichufan93]] | | [[User:Pichufan93|Pichufan93]] |
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| ==Blue and Yellow Toad's Nicknames== | | == Blue and Yellow Toad's Nicknames == |
| http://www.destructoid.com/nsmb-wii-release-bash-bucken-berry-and-ala-gold--155242.phtml | | http://www.destructoid.com/nsmb-wii-release-bash-bucken-berry-and-ala-gold--155242.phtml |
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| ...No comment. - [[User:Smashgoom202|Smashgoom202]] 22:52, 18 November 2009 (EST) | | ...No comment. - [[User:Smashgoom202|Smashgoom202]] 22:52, 18 November 2009 (EST) |
| :The article's author asked an unspecified Nintendo rep (not Miyamoto or another developer) who didn't really know about the tournament, but otherwise knew "a lot of stuff." The rep told about nicknames supposedly used by the Japanese developers and whispered two names that don't sound typical for ''Kinopio'' at all. At the end, the author even humourously writes ''"I don't know if this guy knows what he's talking about or not, but I don't care"''. I can't take this seriously unless one of the developers confirms it in an interview or something. It could just be a joke made by the rep. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 12:45, 8 January 2010 (EST)
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| =="Yellow Toad" or "Yellow Toad''s''"?== | | == "Yellow Toad" or "Yellow Toad''s''"? == |
| Are we to assume that every instance a yellow-color schemed Toad has been featured in a Mario game, it's the same one? That seems like a lot of speculation to me. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 18:04, 25 November 2009 (EST) | | Are we to assume that every instance a yellow-color schemed Toad has been featured in a Mario game, it's the same one? That seems like a lot of speculation to me. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 18:04, 25 November 2009 (EST) |
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| :Well people seem to like articles on just about everything here, so that would be a decent compromise. Merging with the main Toad (species) article is preferable, but, really, does coloration matter? They're just clothes, after all. I say a simple note anywhere saying "Toads dress in a variety of colors" works well enough. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:57, 27 November 2009 (EST) | | :Well people seem to like articles on just about everything here, so that would be a decent compromise. Merging with the main Toad (species) article is preferable, but, really, does coloration matter? They're just clothes, after all. I say a simple note anywhere saying "Toads dress in a variety of colors" works well enough. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:57, 27 November 2009 (EST) |
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| ==Split and Merge Article== | | == Split Article == |
| {{Settled TPP}}
| | It cannot be assumed that just because a particular Toad is wearing yellow, that ''every'' Toad wearing yellow is the same individual. That is the definition of speculation and logical fallacy. Prior to NSMBW, yellow Toads were simply generic background characters and have no real personality. Even the only quality of the Galaxy yellow Toad, of being sleepy, is not found in this new Toad. This all suggests that they are different Toads that simply share a choice in clothing color. The two should be split. As it stands now, this article is basically nothing but "A yellow Toad with no personality appeared in these games. Then, in NSMBW, a yellow Toad with a personality, a development name, and an entirely new role appeared." The two just don't mesh, so should be split. |
| {{Proposal outcome|passed|0-9-1|split off information about generic yellow and blue Toads and merge them with [[Toad (species)]]}}
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| {{Proposal outcome|failed|1-8|Yellow Toad (''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'')}}
| | === Split article into Ala Gold === |
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| It cannot be assumed that just because a particular Toad is wearing yellow, that ''every'' Toad wearing yellow is the same individual. Prior to NSMBW, yellow Toads were simply generic background characters and had no real personality. Even the only personality-trait of the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' Yellow Toad, of being sleepy, is not found in this new Toad. This all suggests that they are different Toads that simply share a choice in clothing color. As it stands now, this article covers ''every'' appearance of a yellow Toad, regardless of whether they may be the same Toad or not. The article also covers yellow Toads "as a species", which is far too distinct a subject to cover on the same page; not to mention the different-colored Yoshi aren't considered different species, just variety.
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| What this proposal hopes to achieve is to split off and merge all relevant information to the correct articles to create more comprehensive and specialized topics. Information to be merged are as follows:
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| *Yellow Toads in a group, such as in ''Super Mario Sunshine'' and ''Super Mario Galaxy'' to be merged into the [[Toad Brigade]] article.
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| *Yellow Toads "as a species" to be merged into the [[Toad (species)]] article. Assuming different coloration is indicative of separate species is too speculative for this wiki, as well as largely-disproven due to indication of vest and cap as articles of clothing in most media. This standard is also followed for [[Yoshi (species)]], wherein differently-colored Yoshi are ''not'' considered separate species, but just variety.
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| *The yellow Toad of NSMBW into a new article, covering only that particular Toad. His singular nature, differing personality, and lack of a group suggests he is a new character. Suggested article names are his development name, "Ala Gold", or simply "Yellow Toad (New Super Mario Bros. Wii)".
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| ''The outcome of this proposal will affect both this page and [[Blue Toad]], as the two concern nearly identical subject matter. As outlined [[Talk:Blue Toad#Split and Merge Article|here]], Blue Toad will be dealt with the same way as this article, with the information pertaining to the generic Blue Toads going on [[Toad (species)]] and [[Toad Brigade]], and info on the ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'' character going on {{fake link|Blue Toad (New Super Mario Bros. Wii)}} or {{fake link|Bucken-Berry}} (its equivalent of "Ala-Gold").''
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|Redstar}}<br>
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| '''Deadline''': 13 February 2010
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| ===Splitting Article===
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| ====Split and merge article into relevant pages====
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| #{{User|Redstar}} - Per proposal. | | #{{User|Redstar}} - Per proposal. |
| #{{User|library girl}} - Speculation to assume they're all the same. Per proposal | | #{{User|library_girl}} - Speculation to assume they're all the same. Per proposal |
| #{{User|MATEOELBACAN}} - Per Redstar. He isn't a normal Toad! He's a protagonist of NSMBW and not a generic Toad!
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| #{{User|Fawfulfury65}} *sigh* Fine.
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| #{{User|Supermariofan14}} Per Redstar.
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| #{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - Per MATEOELBACAN, they cannot all be the same toad. This is a character, not some yellow toad.
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| #{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all: we shouldn't assume every yellow or blue Toad are the ''NSMB Wii'' characters, and generically-coloured members of other species (i.e. [[Shy Guy]]s) don't get their own pages, so neither should the Toads.
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| #{{User|Red Shell 68066vr}} Per all.
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| #[[User:SpecialK|SpecialK]] 13:39, 4 February 2010 (EST) I mean, they are different toads.
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| ====Leave joined====
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| #{{User|Cobold}} - The character has no difference from a generic yellow toad. A different development name does not matter in that way. We have many characters with alternate names, and I doubt "Yellow Toad" has ever been officially used. Development names are not really official either.
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| ===Article Name for NSMBW Yellow Toad (if split)===
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| ====Ala Gold====
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| #{{User|Luigi3000}} Official name anybody!?!We use the name Nintendo refers it to and this is what they called em'!
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| ====Yellow Toad (New Super Mario Bros. Wii)====
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| #{{User|Fawfulfury65}} As long as Yellow Toad has his own article on NSMBW, I'll support.
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| #{{User|MATEOELBACAN}} I prefer this,the Ala Gold deplovement name sounds weird x3,but we'll put that in article and it's finished.
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| #{{User|Grandy02}} There are surely more development nicknames for various things in the games, but they aren't official. And even if "Ala-Gold" was official, it would be a Japanese name (since the developers are Japanese), and we already have an English one, Yellow Toad. The author of the Destructiod article even humourously wrote ''"I don't know if this guy knows what he's talking about or not, but I don't care"'', and personally, I also have my doubts if the Japanese developers would call a ''Kinopio'' "Ala-Gold."
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| #{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - The guidebook says it all. There is no hint or clue that is even written in the official guidebook, approved by Nintendo. If Nintendo doens't have Ala-Gold, then it isn't Ala-Gold.
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| #{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all: the origin of "Ala-Gold" and "Bucken-Berry" is rather dubious, so better safe than sorry. Plus, the nicknames will probably confuse people, whereas "Toad (NSMBW)" is pretty clear.
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| #{{User|Pichufan93}} Yellow Toad and Blue Toad should get their own articles with their official names being their article's names. Nintendo refers them as Blue Toad and Yellow Toad so why should their names be changed to unofficial names if they already have names, generic or not. I'm not saying that I don't like the names but I think its best to stick with Yellow and Blue Toad.
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| #[[User:SpecialK|SpecialK]] 13:38, 4 February 2010 (EST) It's a yellow toad, and this is the first time i heard alla gold!!!
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| #{{User|Red Shell 68066vr}} Per all. If this gets passed, then maybe we can put something like "He is also known as Ala-Gold." in the trivia.
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| ===Comments===
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| @Cobold: The problem here isn't whether this character has a defined personality, or an official name, or any of that; it's that ''every'' yellow Toad is considered to be the same, even minor background appearances. While the yellow Toad seen in ''Sunshine'', ''Galaxy'', and NSMBW are the most developed yellow Toads, which could suggest they are the same, all the previous and off-center stage appearances can hardly be counted as well. The page also goes into Yellow Toad "as a species". This is very confusing. I propose we at least split the article into yellow Toads as characters (regardless if they're the same one or not) and yellow Toads as species (which would be better merged into the main [[Toad (species)]] article]]. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 18:01, 19 December 2009 (EST)
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| @Fawful: Not really. All the relevant information is already found on Toad (species). All that really needs to be said are that Toads were different colors. Everything on this page is needless. Even the ''Mario Sports'' series section states that yellow Toad isn't playable, but is an alternate coloration of the actual ''playable'' Toad. All the stats for the Sports games are taken directly from the playable Toad; the stats don't change when you use the alternate coloration. Nothing on here is really necessary, and can easily be said on the main Toad (species) article with one sentence: "Toads come in a variety of colors, including red, blue, yellow, etc." [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 18:34, 19 December 2009 (EST)
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| Yes but every colored Toad has different personalities between different games, and a good article would need to have that info, a lot of info. Really, this is a nice article that shouldn't be merged or deleted. Yellow Toad is a playable character in NSMBW and he is called of course, Yellow Toad, just like Mario is called Mario, and Luigi, Luigi. He's not called just any "Toad", and same for Blue Toad. So wouldn't he have just as important of a role as Mario, or at least Luigi, important enough for his own article? {{User|Fawfulfury65}}
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| How does "List of Yellow Toads" sound to you? Would that be a good or bad idea? I agree much of this article's content should be on [[Toad Brigade]] or [[Toad (species)]], but this would be my alternative idea. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 18:56, 19 December 2009 (EST)
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| :@Fawful: Actually, colored Toads ''don't'' have different personalities in ''any'' of the games save for the [[Toad Brigade]] in ''Super Mario Galaxy'', and the yellow and blue Toad debuted in NSMBW. Every other instance of a colored Toad are merely background characters with no speaking roles or perceptible personality, which is why they shouldn't be considered the same character. And yes, I do feel the yellow and blue Toad from NSMBW deserve their own article; that's what this proposal is trying to do! The purpose is splitting those two onto their own articles, and merging the remaining information that covers yellow Toads to the Toad (species) article. As it sounds now, this article covers ''both'' the character and the (sub)species/variety and treats them as one and the same.
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| :@Cobold: I'm not sure if such a list would be very long, but I'm fine with it if it gets all the misplaced information merged to the appropriate articles. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 18:59, 19 December 2009 (EST)
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| Please note that '''this proposal now deals with both the Yellow Toad and the Blue Toad'''. If you want to change this page but not the [[Blue Toad]] page, remove your vote between now and the deadline, February 13, 2010. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 15:43, 31 January 2010 (EST)
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| '''Three''' more days to vote. I'll be around then to close the proposal and make the appropriate changes per majority decision. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 16:21, 11 February 2010 (EST)
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| ==Yellow Toad (NSMBW) or Ala-Gold???==
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| I went to this website [http://www.destructoid.com/nsmb-wii-release-bash-bucken-berry-and-ala-gold--155242.phtml] and it says that Yellow Toad (NSMBW) is named Ala-Gold, and the giant wall of text on BabyWeegeeOnFire's Third Archive says that "ala-gold from nsmbw is in the fictional mario party nine". -{{User|KS3}}
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| :Has been discussed before, see this talk page. The article's part where the names "Ala-Gold" and "Bucken-Berry" are first mentioned doesn't really seem to be meant seriously. It is not known if the names are true. Personally, I'd prefer that the name only gets a brief mention in the trivia rather than history section as it is unconfirmed, and the name made up by IGN forum members doesn't belong here at all in my opinion. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 15:33, 16 April 2010 (EDT)
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| I know that this seems a little bit late to commment on this matter, but the name for the Yellow Toad MUST be a joke, as the name "Ala Gold" is taken from "Allah Gold" (mistranslation of Anakin Skywalker) in a Chinese Bootlegged DVD of ''Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith'' under the name of [[http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_War_The_Third_Gathers:_The_Backstroke_of_the_West | Star War The Third Gathers: The Backstroke of the West]] This is NOT some kind of joke, I am ENTIRELY serious here...
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| {{User|Lemmy Koopa617}}
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| == Can we remove that? ==
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| Ignore what I said before. I understand now.--[[User:TimTamChimchar|TimTamChimchar]] 01:09, 15 January 2011 (EST)
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| ==Aie, does Yellow Toad really need three individual articles devoted to it?==
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| I think this is a little excessive. Couldn't the info all be in one spot instead? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] 02:22, 21 February 2011 (EST)
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| :The TPP's solution was never officially repealed, so we shouldn't have this article anymore, and I'm sorry no one noticed this oversight until now. No, we don't need three pages: [[Yellow Toad (New Super Mario Bros. Wii)]] and [[Yellow Toad (Toad Brigade)]] are the only articles we need, since those are identified, unique individuals, but the rest of the info goes into [[Toad (species)]], just like all the other Toad colours (and other species such as [[Koopa Troopa]]s and whatnot). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 11:26, 25 February 2011 (EST)
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| ==Small Toad==
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| We need a small yellow toad picture. Can anyone get one? I don't know where to get it.
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| --{{User:Boowhoplaysgames/Sig}} 17:23, 9 April 2011 (EDT)
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| ==Super Mario 3D Land Appearance==
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| Well the information for this game has been leaked, and if you look at the introduction video you will notice Mario alongside three Toads. One is a Red Toad (perhaps THE Toad?), and the other two are Blue Toad and Yellow Toad. They both seem to mirror each other in the intro in the panicking scene, and are both seen to be running with Mario on his journey to save Peach with the Red Toad. Could this be an appearance of this Yellow Toad himself considering that he is a hero for NSMB Wii and there is only one Yellow Toad so far? [[User:Pichufan93|Pichufan93]] 16:45, 07 October 2011 (EDT)
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| :I'm not sure of this supposed "leak," but as an encyclopedia we should wait for official confirmation before assuming/speculating anything. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 02:53, 8 October 2011 (EDT)
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| ::Agreed. We should wait for ''solid'' information before we get all excited about anything. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 19:50, 8 October 2011 (EDT)
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| I think that it is him. Most Toads always leave everything to [[Mario]], [[Luigi]] (including Yoshi), but Yellow Toad, Blue Toad, along with a Red Toad have joined Mario. This is probably a hint that they are the same Toads.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 14:09, 15 March 2012 (EDT)
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| They are the same Toads, every time. Maybe we should make a list of the appearances of Yellow Toad and Blue Toad.
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| Super Mario 3D Land,
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| Super Mario Sunshine,
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| Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon,
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| Mario vs. Donkey Kong,
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| And probably even more!
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| {{unsigned|135.23.108.101}}
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| == Breaking the Fourth Wall? ==
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| In Mario Party 9's Section of the Page [[Fourth wall]], It says that Yellow Toad talks to the player. Is it really Yellow Toad from NSMBW, that breaks the fourth wall? I may been late, but better late than never. [[Special:Contributions/180.254.185.30|180.254.185.30]] 21:16, 6 September 2014 (EDT)
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| ==Yellow Toad (character)==
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| This is a bad identifier, as the other Yellow Toad is also a character. Also, this talk page is broken from it. See? It says just "Yellow Toad," which the talk button for "Yellow Toad (character)" redirects here. I'm saying this is a fine mess all around. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:40, 11 December 2017 (EST)
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| :I also ''highly'' doubt that "Ala-Gold" was a production name ''at all'', as that's just a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XziLNeFm1ok mangled translation of Anakin Skywalker's name from English to Chinese and back]. (note some dialog is....vulgar. Ah, the beauty of nonsenically-bad translations!) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:34, 19 February 2018 (EST)
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| :It is a bad identifier. The issue is what to change it to. I would suggest "(''New Super Mario Bros.'' series)" if it weren't for his ''[[Mario Party (series)|Mario Party]]'' appearances. A possible solution is to kill the identifier altogether (and Blue Toad's, for that matter). The current identifier already seems to imply that this Yellow Toad is more important, and he ''is'' a recurring playable character in the ''NSMB'' games while the [[Toad Brigade]] member is only ever a supporter. That's my excuse, anyway, since I can't think of an identifier that would work. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 01:18, 19 February 2018 (EST)
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| To bring this back up, now that we have Super Mario Bros. Wonder, I'm in support of killing the identifier. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:21, August 20, 2023 (EDT)
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| :I also support killing the idenfier for here and Blue Toad's article. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 16:13, August 22, 2023 (EDT)
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| ==Voice==
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| This bit on the Pesonality-Section says the following:<br>
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| ''"In comparison to Blue Toad, Yellow Toad has a much higher pitched voice that is very much like the voice that the Yellow Toad of the Toad Brigade had in Super Mario Galaxy, who also sounded higher pitched in comparison to the other Toads in the game. '''However, the voices of Yellow Toad and Blue Toad were changed,''' with Blue Toad having a higher pitched voice while Yellow Toad has a lower pitched voice."''<br>
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| When were their pitches swapped? With NSMBU? With NSMBUDX?
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| -Definitely not Sascha
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| : Yeah, if both Toads are Samantha Kelley, you'd think they'd have the same voice. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 10:02, August 27, 2023 (EDT)
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| == Change or remove the identifier? ==
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| Continuing what Hewer and Ray Trace mentioned two sections above, but with its own section. This guy now appears in ''Wonder'' which is not part of the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' series, so him having that identifier doesn't really make much sense anymore. The problem is ''which'' identifier should he use now, if any. "Yellow Toad (character)" is an option, just as with [[Blue Toad (character)]]. This page was actually named like that before, but as you can see in the discussion above, it was changed because [[Yellow Toad (Toad Brigade)]] is also a character sharing the same name, so it kinda clashed. However, [[Yellow Toad (character)]] does redirect to this page, which makes me question why the page isn't named like that now. This page was also briefly named [[Yellow Toad (Super Mario series)]] once, which would actually include ''Wonder'' in it, but the Toad Brigade one is also a character in the ''Super Mario'' series, so it would still clash. "Yellow Toad (playable)" comes to my mind, but the Toad Brigade one is also playable in the Switch version of ''3D World''. Another option would be "Yellow Toad (main character)" which would probably fit, but I am not so sure.
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| And a more radical option, which was suggested above, is just to remove the identifier altogether (and to Blue Toad too). [[Yellow Toad]] and [[Blue Toad]] are disambiguations, but we could move those pages to "Yellow Toad (disambiguation)" and "Blue Toad (disambiguation)" I guess. This may end up making the clash with the yellow Toad Brigade member even bigger, so I am not so sure about that. Either way, both these Yellow and Blue Toads for sure are far more important than any other Toads of their respective colors in the franchise, so there is that argument. There is not another important blue Toad literally named "Blue Toad" it seems, and I don't know in where the yellow Toad Brigade one has been directly referred to as "Yellow Toad" in the first place.
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| This also gives me something to think about the Yoshis. If what makes these Yellow and Blue Toads get a page is them being important and having that proper name, I ''wonder'' if the Red, Yellow and Light-Blue Yoshis in ''Wonder'' are also eligible to have their own pages. I guess that the main difference is that the Toads have been properly established as characters in the franchise, with us ''knowing'' that they appear as main characters in three main series games, and even in at least one spin-off. With the Yoshis, we don't know if these three Yoshis are the same ones of their respective colors in other Yoshi games (unlike [[Yoshi|the main green one]] which we know is the same one in all of them, I think). These Red, Yellow and Light-Blue ones could even easily be the same ones that appear in ''Mario'' games, like ''World'', ''64 DS'', ''NSMBW'', ''NSMBU'' and ''Run'', but we don't know for sure, and they are left unnamed in most of those games anyhow (''Run'' does name them, with the green one being just "Yoshi", just as how ''Wonder'' does it). My main concern is that having the [[Super Mario Bros. Wonder#Playable characters|character list]] link to proper character pages for the Yellow and Blue Toads, but instead link to the Yoshi species page for the latter three Yoshis seems pretty weird, and I don't know if that may cause some problems. Plus, these three Yoshis are arguably more important than any other Yoshi in the franchise just behind the main green one because they are main protagonists in a mainline ''Mario'' game, but if we count this game as their only appearance, their pages would be pretty shallow and most probably pointless.
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| Back to the Toads, the current identifier for the Yellow one needs to be changed. Do we go back to character? Do we move it, probably alongside the Blue one, to another identifier? Or do we just remove the identifier in both? (Which, to be fair, can be compared to what is done with the [[Yoshi]] and [[Toad]] characters to some degree.) Just making this into a proper discussion before anything wild like a proposal or undisscused move happens. -[[User:Kirbeat|Kirbeat]] ([[User talk:Kirbeat|talk]]) 03:33, September 5, 2023 (EDT)
| | === Comments === |
| : Well, the blue and yellow Toads from the Toad Brigade are still fairly important (SMG, SMG2, CT: TT, SMO) whereas Yellow and Blue Toads just appeared in the NSMB games and the colored Yoshis are currently merged so the latter's a no go. Plus, the Blue and Yellow Toads from the Toad Brigade had distinct personalities, whereas the NSMB/SMBW Yellow and Blue Toads are literally just Toads with no other distinguishing characteristics. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:59, September 5, 2023 (EDT)
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| ::The thing is that the Yellow and Blue Toads from the ''NSMB'' games aren't exclusively part of the ''NSMB'' games anymore, as they appear in ''Wonder'' now, so their scope is bigger. They cannot be referred to as "the ones from ''NSMB''" now, they are more than that thanks to ''Wonder''. -[[User:Kirbeat|Kirbeat]] ([[User talk:Kirbeat|talk]]) 14:03, September 5, 2023 (EDT)
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| :::I don't think the identifier is inaccurate or misleading or too limted in its scope. He appeared in Super Mario Bros. Wonder, sure, but the identifier still gives correct impression that he's the Yellow Toad who originated in the series, but, given his appearance alongside the Blue Toad, is in a 2D Mario platformer that is a continuation of New Super Mario Bros., but without the "new" in the title. {{User:Mario/sig}} 19:43, September 5, 2023 (EDT)
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| :One way we could deal with the issue is to simply merge with Blue Toad and treat them as a duo, like we do with some ''WarioWare'' characters. They always appear together (Blue Toad only gets two extra sections to mention regular Toad using his color scheme, which is unnecessary, since the about template already takes care of that), share the same role in every game they appear in, and have no real distinguishing characteristics outside of their color. As a result, both articles have pretty much the same content (with entire sections being copied almost word-for-word), so we don't really lose anything by merging. Sidestepping the identifier issue is an added bonus. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 12:10, September 12, 2023 (EDT)
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| ::Well that is an option. -[[User:Kirbeat|Kirbeat]] ([[User talk:Kirbeat|talk]]) 19:46, September 19, 2023 (EDT)
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