Editing Talk:Wing Cap

==Wing Cap cameo on Rayman Legends==

I was watching a video from Rayman Legends on Wii U, and when Rayman has the Mario costume on him and press "A" to glide, his head takes the form of the Wing Cap. Just thought it was noteworthy in the article.

--[[Special:Contributions/189.186.213.142|189.186.213.142]] 23:48, 4 September 2013 (EDT)John Doe
:It's already mentioned on the [[List of Mario references in video games#Rayman Legends (Wii U)|references list]]. [[User:GBAToad|GBAToad]] ([[User talk:GBAToad|talk]]) 00:12, 5 September 2013 (EDT)

== "Wings" as an item ==

So on [https://cdn02.nintendo-europe.com/media/downloads/games_8/emanuals/nintendo_ds_21/Manual_NintendoDS_SuperMario64DS_EN.pdf page 18 of the English instruction booklet for 64DS,] the section describing Wing Mario has "Wings" for a header and shows screenshots of both Wing Mario and the feather item. The article currently seems to treat "Wings" as the name of the feather item. However, [https://m1.nintendo.net/docvc/NTR/JPN/ASMJ/ASMJ_J.pdf the respective page of the Japanese manual] is headed as 羽根マリオ (''Hane Mario'', Wing Mario), decidedly ''not'' referring to the feather. Personally, I feel the feather could be considered an iteration of [[Cape Feather]], given the forms are fairly similar in function, the [[Super Mushroom]] in that game turns them into [[Mega Mario]], and the [[Super Leaf]] also has two forms associated with it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:44, May 1, 2020 (EDT)
:Are you talking moving the Wings to a separate article or merging that information with the Cape Feather? I don't really I agree with either, since it's still just the Wing Cap. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:51, May 1, 2020 (EDT)
::I'm talking about moving the feather item (which itself is ''not'' called "wings" in any capacity that I can see) in SM64DS to Cape Feather. Super Leaf and Tanooki Suit can both make Tanooki Mario, after all. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:06, May 2, 2020 (EDT)
:Actually the first line in the 羽根マリオ box is 「羽根を入手すると」 "By obtaining the wings", so "Wings" is an appropriate name. Compare to Power Flower box to the left (「パワーフラワーを入手すると」). [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 06:08, May 2, 2020 (EDT)
::Wait a sec, 羽根 can mean both "feather" and "wings". The line actually be "By obtaining the feather". [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 06:55, May 2, 2020 (EDT)

== What to do with "Wings" ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|failed|6-4-10|do nothing}}
I'm quite surprised that I found this by browsing around, but I think it's about time we deal with this misinterpretation.

It's considerably odd that the Wing Cap and the "Wings" from ''64 DS'' are considered the same thing, and to me, it's just two different powerups giving the player the exact same form. So I think we should break it down like this:
*'''Split {{fake link|Wings (''Super Mario 64 DS'')}} into its own article.''' This is my preferred option, given that it's still a distinct powerup despite giving the player the same form, as was mentioned before.
*'''Move the info over to [[Cape Feather]].''' On the other hand, given that there's some evidence connecting the powerup to the Cape Feather, I'm going to throw in this option as well. I'm not opposed to this option either.
*'''Do nothing.''' Literally that.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Archivist Toadette}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' <del>October 23, 2020, 23:59 GMT Extended to October 30, 2020, 23:59 GMT Extended to November 6, 2020, 23:59 GMT</del> Extended to November 13, 2020, 23:59 GMT

===Split Wings (''Super Mario 64 DS'') into its own article===
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} My preferred option.
#{{User|DarkNight}} Although it could be a Cape Feather, I personally think it would work better as its own article.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all. It is separate from the Cape Feather, as well.
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all.
#{{User|1337star}} I'm also fine with this option.
#{{User|Benjaminkirsc}} Per all. All wings should have their own article for more info.

===Move the info on Wings to Cape Feather===
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Second choice.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Per my thoughts in the above section.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} I like this option the most, since it looks like a cape feather and I think it could easily redirect to this section.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Something really screwy seems to have happened here - the item is clearly depicted as a feather, but the translators don't seem to have picked up on that or translated out of context, resulting in an alternate meaning of ''hane'' being used (as mentioned in above section). It looks like there is supposed to be wordplay with the ''hane'' item being used to transform into ''Hane Mario'' that doesn't really work in English. As for why I'm picking this option, several reasons. First, the Cape Feather (''Manto Hane'') is [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clvs/manuals/ja/pdf/CLV-P-VAAFJ.pdf also] [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clvs/manuals/common/pdf/CLV-P-SAAFE.pdf known] as the Feather (''Hane''), and as this chiefly occurs in appearances without Cape Mario, it seems like the "Cape" part of the name was intentionally dropped in this game. It doesn't make much sense to me that this item would be considered separate if the Cape Feather and ''Mario Kart'' Feather are already considered the same thing. Second, when its block is broken, it falls similarly to the Cape Feather from ''Super Mario World'', which is distinctly different from how the original Wing Cap lands in ''Super Mario 64''. It's subtle, but if 1 UP Heart is separate from 1-Up Mushroom (both in appearance and its motion in most games), the same logic applies. Third, I think there is a bit too much overlap in the first option since "Wings" seems to nebulously refer to both the item ''and'' the form. It's possible they had the multiplayer forms for the other characters in mind, but again, the item is clearly a feather. Fourth, given [[tcrf:Prerelease:Super Mario World (SNES)/Sprites#player-hane-QX0W-hane.OBJ|what]] [[tcrf:Prerelease:Super Mario World (SNES)/Sprites#player-hane-TEST-0.OBJ|we]] [[tcrf:Prerelease:Super Mario World (SNES)/Sprites#X-Q-X-1W-hane.CGX|know]] [[tcrf:Prerelease:Super Mario World (SNES)/Sprites#X-Q-X-hane-TEST.CGX|now]], I can't help but feel like the feather giving wings is some sort of in-joke. Fifth, the cap system is completely replaced in the remake, with the Wing Cap, Vanish Cap and Metal Cap being essentially replaced by [the Power Flower and] Mario's Cap, Luigi's Cap and Wario's Cap - as such, when the manual and characters refer to "cap" power-ups, it's another set of objects. Something of note is that Mario Slot and Super Mario Slot include the original Cape Feather design, but given the original ''Super Mario Bros.'' artwork featuring the original design of Bowser is also shown on the slot machine, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. Regardless, you can ''technically'' say the Wing Cap still appears in the game - on Wing Mario's head. Basically, Feather/Wings seems to be in the same boat as King Boo/Big Boo.

===Do nothing===
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} It being a remake of ''Super Mario 64'', I see it as a redone Wing Cap, and thus not really something different. Though, there are differences that are mentioned in current page in a paragraph. But with them being minor, I personally prefer this option over the just splitting it.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} I'm skeptical that the Wings are meant to be the same as the Cape Feather. It doesn't actually resemble any of the Cape Feather's in-game appearances besides being a feather, and has a different name in both Japanese and English. As for giving the Wings their own article, I agree with Yoshi the SSM and Alex95's thoughts, <s>and also this would be consistent with the handling of [[Keronpa Ball]].</s>
#{{User|Alex95}} - It is still functionally the Wing Cap, just without the "Cap" part to make it fit the other characters in Versus Mode and to distinguish it from the basic caps. From a development view, it makes sense, as you wouldn't have to model four different caps for four characters, you could just have the one item work for all of them. Moving the information to the Cape Feather doesn't make sense to me as, while functionally similar, the Wing Feather is clearly meant to be the Wing Cap.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per Yoshi the SSM and Alex95. While the power-up does take on a different form in the remake, it still gives the same effect. I feel how the article covers any slight changes is fine.
#{{User|1337star}} My prefered option, [[Talk:Cape Feather#Put Super Mario 64 (DS) info somewhere else|per myself from almost eight years ago]], but anything that doesn't re-merge this with Cape Feather is fine.
#{{User|ChompworksEngineer}} Per Yoshi the SMM and Alex95. It seems unnecessary to split it when the Wings item is the same thing as the Wing Cap except for design.
#{{user|TheDarkStar}} - per all
#{{User|Keyblade Master}} Reconsidered my vote after reading these responses.
#{{user|Power Flotzo}} Per all.
#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.

===Comments===
By the way, it shouldn't be "Wing (''Super Mario 64 DS'')," it should be "Wings (''Super Mario 64 DS'' item)." The manual always refers to it in plural even when singular would make more sense, though it also calls the form "wings." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:55, October 9, 2020 (EDT)
:No, that's a descriptive name. The fact that the manual also calls [[Balloon Mario]] "Floating Power" is a testament to that. That said, yeah, plural "Wings" is correct. {{User:Archivist Toadette/sig}} 19:58, October 9, 2020 (EDT)
::It's still a name that is used for multiple contexts, descriptive or otherwise. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:18, October 9, 2020 (EDT)

@Keyblade Master Not necessarily. The feathers float down in the same way, and aside from Cape Mario having the earthquake thing, Cape Mario and Wing Mario work almost exactly the same. Also, note my point on the Super Leaf being used for Raccoon Mario and Tanooki Mario yet being the same item. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:20, October 9, 2020 (EDT)

Regarding the Keronpa Ball argument, it appears "Kuromame" stemmed from an unofficial guide. As such, until we get word of what an official, SM64-centered guide calls them, I would advise against using it as basis for other arguments. For all we know, it could be Keronpa just like SM64DS. After all, as ''many'' people seem to forget, Fire Chomp in SMB3 appears as a faceless black orb except when spitting fire, and considering SM64's graphic system, enlarging it seems a more economical alternative. But I digress. The point is, it's currently shaky to use for an argument for another subject. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:57, October 11, 2020 (EDT)
:Interesting - I was under the impression that it was initially an entirely different subject before explicitly being changed into a Flame Chomp for the remake. Assuming we can't find a source for that it might be better to merge it with Flame Chomp outright. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:51, October 11, 2020 (EDT)
::My thoughts exactly. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:49, October 11, 2020 (EDT)
:::I should add that we ought to also probably find out what the official name of it is in a Japanese ''Super Mario 64 DS'' guide, since the current foreign reference comes from the ''Super Mario 64 DS'' internal filename, and same goes for Snufit. I believe we linked to a scan that contained both, but the source is no longer available. ''As I recall'', it seems right, but I don't want to rely on memory if it can be helped. My theory is that "Keronpa Ball" is derived from what seems to be the ''Super Mario 64'' source asset name for it, "<tt>wan_ball</tt>", but for now, let's put this on hold until the name from one or both official guides is confirmed. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:11, October 16, 2020 (EDT)

FWIW, some people seem to be treating Wings as a manual-only name, but it appears in-game as well. When first getting Wings as Mario, the tutorial text that pops up starts with "With Wings on his cap, Mario can take to the skies!" -- [[User:1337star|1337star]] <sup>([[User talk:1337star|Mailbox SP]])</sup> 17:09, October 12, 2020 (EDT)
:Thanks for the info. Will note accordingly depending on the outcome of the proposal. {{User:Archivist Toadette/sig}} 17:12, October 12, 2020 (EDT)

Regarding the "same thing except for design" argument, this also isn't true. Aside from the different names, the cap falls to the ground and moves like a mushroom, the feather floats down just like the cape feather. This is like saying the Tanooki Suit in SMB3 and the Statue Leaf in SM3DW are the same except for design. Also, in that case, you might as well consider character-specific Power Flowers to be the same as SM64 caps. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:37, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
:That example isn't 100% comparable, though. The Statue Leaf never outright replaced the Tanooki Suit in an SMB3 remake. Had the Wings appeared in a completely different game and provided the Wing Mario form rather than just replacing the Wing Cap for a 64 remake, I would be fine with splitting it. The Power Flower is a completely different matter altogether as it's very clearly one item that just has different effects depending on the character who happens to pick it up. Using the arguments here to merge the Power Flower simply can't work at all, since to make it work it would have to be merged with the Metal Cap and Vanish Cap at the same time, while still retaining its own article for Mario and Yoshi's powers, which would be a clear violation of once and only once and do nothing but confuse readers. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 14:01, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
::(I forgot to mention the Super Mushroom for Mega Mario, but your argument works to counter that already.) I still feel the fact that it's treated as separate from the "main" character abilities and can still only be used by Mario outside of the multiplayer shouldn't be understated. Given its limited use, it still easily ''could'' have been a Wing Cap, but the fact they used a feather (which isn't the same thing as a wing; one is avian hair, the other is an avian arm) leads me to not see any benefit in keeping them merged. At least mentioning the fact that outside of multiplayer, Wings boxes give Power Flowers is enough of a difference to not be redundant to have its own article. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:10, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
:::Wing boxes? What you are talking about concerns the boxes (! Blocks and ? Blocks). And they are already separated. Also, as already mentioned, they just couldn't make it a cap for the remake. The design of falling slowly seems reasonable for a feather (and not for a cap). In either case, this is the game where they made (for example) Cavern of the Metal Cap into [[Behind the Waterfall]]. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 14:34, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
::::It concerns what comes out of the boxes. The ? Blocks that contain Wings only do so with Mario (aside from multiplayer), so that is code that calls upon different entities depending on the character present, with one of said entities being the Wings. Since Mario has his own Power Flower ability and this is distinct from that, this is thus treated as a separate "type" of power-up than the vanish or metal in this game, thus in that sense differentiating it from the original as well, just in the opposite direction than vanish and metal were. If that makes sense. Sorry if it doesn't, I'm not good with wording abstract concepts. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:46, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
:::::Yeah, this argument doesn't really make sense. Like, the Vanish Cap and Metal Cap were already coming out of different color boxes from Wing Cap in 64. 64DS decided to change this to different characters and just made one box. Even still, this argument, at best, tries to distinguish Wings from Power Flower, which already is separated. At least, how I am viewing it. In either case, the changes they did to 64DS makes sense. And, it makes sense for Wings being on the same page as Wing Cap. That is what I am saying, anyways. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 15:14, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
::::::I don't see why the Wings only coming out of a block when Mario hits it makes it warrant a separate article - it's a simple case of a useless item not coming out of a block and instead being replaced with something that can actually be used. Also, you say it could have easily been a Wing Cap, but I completely disagree since it exists in multiplayer. It would have been awkward for Luigi, Wario, or Yoshi to collect an item that is clearly specifically designed for Mario. There's no way around that since there's no way for the game to know which character is going to pick it up. At this point I'm convinced that the Wings were merely a design choice to make it neutral for all characters who can collect it. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 16:45, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
:::::::Then why would, instead of using wings as a power up (which had [[Wing (Super Mario Bros. Special)|been]] [[P-Wing|done]] [[Yoshi's Wings|before]]), they use a feather that acts suspiciously like the feathers in SMW from its own behavior to the power it grants only having functional differences in places where it is more or less difficult to implement in 3D (ie "flapping doodads on head" is easier to render in limited 3D than [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoFlowInCGI a moving cape], the earthquake thing wouldn't work for SM64's gameplay at all, the cape attack would be basically redundant with him already having physical attacks, while both forms have the "downward momentum for flight" mechanic)? I think a generically-named replacement <small>(Wings)</small> for an item <small>(Wing Cap)</small> that grants a form <small>(Wing Mario)</small> suspiciously similar in function to a form <small>(Cape Mario)</small> caused by an item <small>(Cape Feather)</small> essentially identical to said replacement <small>(Wings)</small> means that either the item from the other game <small>(Cape Feather)</small> should be merged with the replacement <small>(Wings)</small> or all three separate, but not keep the replacement <small>(Wings)</small> merged to the origin counterpart <small>(Wing Cap)</small> that the ''item itself'' is nothing like at all. (On a related note, we haven't merged Invincishroom from MLSS with "Invincibility Mushroom"/Poison Mushroom from MLSSBM, which granted is more of a plot item than an actual "power-up." I know MLBISBJJ had some item changes too, something about cheese I think?) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:50, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
::::::::Er, I think this conversation got jumbled up a bit, since the whole time I've been talking about Wings/Wing Cap, not Wings/Cape Feather. I ''highly'' doubt that either the Wing Mario form or the Wings item was meant to be Cape Mario/the Cape Feather since there's no evidence to that besides being suspiciously similar and I won't be convinced otherwise. As for the Invincishroom, that's a bit of an odd case since 1. Both mushrooms were already pre-existing items, and 2. It's a confusing retcon since it's been split into two items - the Invincibility Mushroom is now what the item was supposed to be, the Poison Mushroom is now the item Mario got in the original game. Now that it looks like Keronpa Ball is on the way to being merged with Flame Chomp, that can't really be used as precedent either... (By the way, the Cheese items in BJJ work like the Syrups, but are exclusively used on Bowser) --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 18:13, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
:::::::::I covered Wing Cap/Wings too, yeah. What I said there was that the ''items themselves'' have ''nothing'' in common beyond what they change Mario into. They have different designs, different names, act differently when released from the blocks, are released from a different kind of block anyways (note ! Switch and ? Switch also get different pages), and are not all found in the same locations anyways. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:20, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
::::::::::Alright, I think I see where we are now. While I do agree that the Wing Cap and Wings are separate items to an extent, the Wings were only introduced in a remake to replace the original Wing Cap and haven't returned since, with the Wing Cap's effects or otherwise, so I feel it's best to keep them here. In my opinion that's the best approach for things like this. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 18:39, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
::::::::::Yeah. They do have different names between 64 and 64DS, as well as Cape Feather. Even Japanese names where 64 is Hane Boshi, 64DS is Hane, and Cape Feather is Manto hane. But then there's Waluigi Time's point right before mine. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 18:50, October 13, 2020 (EDT)
:::::::::::In the ''Mario Kart'' games, it's just Hane, just like how it's simply "Feather" in English there. Note it ''also'' doesn't give a cape. I suppose another option there is to treat that like Super Mushroom and MK's Mushrooms, though this would need merged with the MK page in that case given how many unrelated subseries the Mushroom page covers. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:36, October 16, 2020 (EDT)
::::::::::::I am convinced. Separating Wings should only be done if it is merged with Cape Feather. So, I removed the vote there. However, I still think that Wings and Wing Cap should be on the same page. Namely besides added locations, it is in the same places. Also, in 64DS, there are signs in Bob-mob Battlefield and Shifting Sand Land that day the following: “You can fly if you’re wearing the red Wing cap! Put the cap on, then triple jump to take off. You can fly even higher if you blast out of a cannon wearing the Wing cap!” Which is interesting as other signs (like the sign about Metal before the gas area) were changed to reflect the remake. Although I didn’t actually check the original to confirm that it was word for word perfect. BOB sign is past the bridge, near the teleported, btw. But in either case, cap isn’t capitalized in the remake. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 23:22, October 18, 2020 (EDT)
:::::::::::::The equivalent in the N64 version seems to be this line: “If you get the Wing Cap, you can fly! Put the cap on, then do a Triple Jump--jump three times in a row--to take off. You can fly even higher if you blast out of a cannon wearing the Wing Cap!” Alternately: “When you put on the Wing Cap that comes from a red block, do the Triple Jump to soar high into the sky.” So the DS version rewrote it slightly, though in context, the "Wing cap" could be interpreted as the cap that appears on Wing Mario's head, as I've indicated above. Also, I must point out the obvious - the red blocks are a type of ! Block in the N64 version and ? Block in the DS version, and they have separate articles despite generally being in the same locations. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:18, October 19, 2020 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Yeah, but ? Blocks of 64DS are different from the ! blocks of 64, as you know what comes out of ! blocks based on the color but there is a little bit of a mystery for ? Blocks. Plus it's all of the color blocks merged into one (including their locations). Plus there are even duds coming out of ? Blocks. Wings being in the same location (with added locations) as the Wing Cap is more significant, as this is the only power-up that is. But then again, this is a weak argument in the first place. What is a stronger argument is Waluigi Time's last point. Especially with the argument of Wing Cap appears on Wing Mario's head. {{User:Yoshi the SSM/sig}} 10:40, October 19, 2020 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::I might agree if the difference was purely aesthetic (like the ''Super Mario 64'' blocks/''Super Mario 64 DS'' Bricks), but as was pointed out, the Wing Cap and Wings item have different physics as well, seen after they burst out of the block and before they are collected. I'd even say the English version of ''Super Mario 64 DS'' seems slightly rushed coming to mind the King Boo/Big Boo oversight and the change of the specific "Elevator Tour in the Volcano" to easily-confused "Inside the Volcano". [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:05, October 19, 2020 (EDT)
Why does it keep getting extended? [[User:Benjaminkirsc|Benjaminkirsc]] ([[User talk:Benjaminkirsc|talk]]) 11:51, November 3, 2020 (EST)
:Rule 9 of the Proposal page states: "All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. '''more than half of the total''' number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options." The "Do nothing" options has 8 out of the 16 voters, which is exactly half, not more than half. {{User:Yoshi the SSM/sig}} 11:58, November 3, 2020 (EST)

== Determine what to do with "Wings" - take 2 ==
{{TPP}}
See above. For some faux pas reason, we have a feather item (mistranslated as "wings" despite clearly being a quill with two rows of hairs and not an appendage) included on the article for a hat. In the above proposal from four years ago, most editors weren't too keen on moving it. They had their reasons, but I think it's time to try this again, because despite both causing [[Wing Mario]], they are clearly two separate items - much as the case with [[Super Leaf]], [[Statue Leaf]], and [[Tanooki Suit]], which in varying games can be the cause for [[Raccoon Mario]] or [[Tanooki Mario]]. On the same note, the "Wings" here is also functionally equivalent to the [[Cape Feather]], given their floating is the same and Wing Mario and [[Cape Mario]] function almost identically anyway (only real difference being Wing lacks the swipe and pound attacks, which Mario has equivalents to by default in ''64''). Some of what's on Cape Feather's page already doesn't have anything to do with Capes (namely ''Mario Kart'') and are simple called "Feather" in those games anyway, so this and those could all go together similar to how we cover generic [[Mushroom]] items.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Deadline''': September 21, 2024, 23:59 (GMT)

===Split "Wings" into its own article===
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} I'd rather split this into its own article because its likely not the same as the Cape Feather due to a different name, different appearance, different form given, and a single appearance.
#{{User|Arend}} Wait... you mean to say this ''hasn't'' had its own article yet?? I could've sworn it had one at some point.
#{{User|Hewer}} About time this split happened (though I still think the idea of merging it with specifically the unrelated Mario Kart feather is nonsense, I mostly stand by my ramblings regarding that from [[Talk:Cape Feather#Split "Cape Feather" and "Feather" similar to how we handle Super Mushroom and Mushroom|last time]]).

===Merge "Wings" to [[Cape Feather]]===
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per

===Split "Wings" to {{fake link|Feather}} and include the other non-Cape "Feathers" from the Cape Feather page===
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Secondary choice
===Oppose===
#{{User|YoYo}} when you collect the feather, they give Mario the wing cap. The feather item in itself is different, yes, but it is fundamentally the same powerup. See it less like the Tanooki Leaf and the Statue Leaf, and more like the wing vs wingless Spiny Shell in Mario Kart. Same item, different look. 
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per YoYo.

===Comments===
{{@|YoYo}} - The obvious difference there is those are both shells and have the same names, just one design has wings. In this case, one is a hat and one isn't, and both have different names anyway. This "feather gives him the hat" actually is more like the Leaf giving him the Tanooki Suit. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:03, September 7, 2024 (EDT)
@@ Line 89: / Line 89: @@
 == Determine what to do with "Wings" - take 2 ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|11-1-1-1|Split into separate article as "Wings"}}
 See above. For some faux pas reason, we have a feather item (mistranslated as "wings" despite clearly being a quill with two rows of hairs and not an appendage) included on the article for a hat. In the above proposal from four years ago, most editors weren't too keen on moving it. They had their reasons, but I think it's time to try this again, because despite both causing [[Wing Mario]], they are clearly two separate items - much as the case with [[Super Leaf]], [[Statue Leaf]], and [[Tanooki Suit]], which in varying games can be the cause for [[Raccoon Mario]] or [[Tanooki Mario]]. On the same note, the "Wings" here is also functionally equivalent to the [[Cape Feather]], given their floating is the same and Wing Mario and [[Cape Mario]] function almost identically anyway (only real difference being Wing lacks the swipe and pound attacks, which Mario has equivalents to by default in ''64''). Some of what's on Cape Feather's page already doesn't have anything to do with Capes (namely ''Mario Kart'') and are simple called "Feather" in those games anyway, so this and those could all go together similar to how we cover generic [[Mushroom]] items.
@@ Line 101: / Line 100: @@
 #{{User|Arend}} Wait... you mean to say this ''hasn't'' had its own article yet?? I could've sworn it had one at some point.
 #{{User|Hewer}} About time this split happened (though I still think the idea of merging it with specifically the unrelated Mario Kart feather is nonsense, I mostly stand by my ramblings regarding that from [[Talk:Cape Feather#Split "Cape Feather" and "Feather" similar to how we handle Super Mushroom and Mushroom|last time]]).
-#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per all. Merging "Wings" with the Feathers from ''Mario Kart'' doesn't make sense, though, since every appearance of a feather on the Cape Feather article shares an identical design barring a single crude illustration from ''Nintendo Power'', and there's no need to break that consistency for an item which is far less ubiquitous and varied in appearance than, say, a Mushroom.
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
-#{{User|Blinker}} Per all.
-#{{User|Mario}} I wish this was called the "Wing Feather" rather than just "wings" (since the power-up is called this too), but since it is called a particular name and it's a redesign due to Mario's power-up caps being phased out in favor of character transformations ([[Metal Cap]] and [[Vanish Cap]] were replaced by the [[Power Flower (Super Mario 64 DS)|Power Flower]] for Wario and Luigi respectively) it's reasonable to split this in conjunction with those power-up changes in the remake.
-#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Splitting this apart into its own article makes the most sense to us. Merging these to another article feels like it's just ''begging'' for a similar proposal to shuffle the information along to another article down the road, so we might as well just split it now. ;P
-#{{User|Pizza Master}} Per all.
-#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
 ===Merge "Wings" to [[Cape Feather]]===
@@ Line 114: / Line 106: @@
 ===Split "Wings" to {{fake link|Feather}} and include the other non-Cape "Feathers" from the Cape Feather page===
 #{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per
-<s>#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Secondary choice</s>
+#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Secondary choice
 ===Oppose===
 #{{User|YoYo}} when you collect the feather, they give Mario the wing cap. The feather item in itself is different, yes, but it is fundamentally the same powerup. See it less like the Tanooki Leaf and the Statue Leaf, and more like the wing vs wingless Spiny Shell in Mario Kart. Same item, different look.
-<s>#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per YoYo.</s>
+#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per YoYo.
 ===Comments===
-{{@|YoYo}} - The obvious difference there is those are both shells and have the same names, just one design has wings. In this case, one is a hat and one isn't, and both have different names anyway. This "feather gives him the hat" actually is more like the Leaf giving him the Tanooki Suit, as a lightweight drifting object giving a pre-established article of clothing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:03, September 7, 2024 (EDT)
+{{@|YoYo}} - The obvious difference there is those are both shells and have the same names, just one design has wings. In this case, one is a hat and one isn't, and both have different names anyway. This "feather gives him the hat" actually is more like the Leaf giving him the Tanooki Suit. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:03, September 7, 2024 (EDT)
-Why not just move this to the [[Wings]] page? Write it so that "Wings" is the name for items that give, well, wings to anyone who touches them. A two-in-one deal article. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 14:30, September 12, 2024 (EDT)
-:Because this is a feather, not an actual Wing. Same reason we don't move it to ''Special''{{'}}s Wing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:20, September 12, 2024 (EDT)
-::Hence "two in one deal", an pragmatic approach where one article can be used for both subjects sharing the same (both English and Japanese) name; the introduction giving a general, mutually inclusive explanation for what Wings are and do, and the game sections covering details appropiately which Wings it is. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 13:54, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Seems like a precedent that could be abused if it snowballs. I don't want it to result in situations like [https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Snapper this]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:03, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-::::I see no problem with that example. Looks like a perfectly viable alternative to creating multiple pages with identifiers for subjects sharing the English name. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 18:07, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::Well, I mean, a name seems like an odd way to group subjects when one is a spinning box turtle and the other is a whip-wielding anthropomorphic barn owl with no further similarities. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:14, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-Just in case anyone wanted it, I have now created a visualization of what the split page for "Wings" will look like if split into its own article via my [[User:Pizza Master/sandbox|sandbox page]].--{{User:Pizza Master/sig}} 16:57, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-:Thank you for your contribution. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:02, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-I do think it's worth noting that "wings" isn't mistranslated. It's referring to the general powerup in the same way we have "Metal Power", "Floating Power", and "Invisibility Power". The manual doesn't seem to ever directly state the name of the item, only show a picture of the item next to the powerup (moreso, the item's name are in all-caps; Wings aren't, as if Mario getting "Wings" means he has wings on his hat, not that the item itself is "wings"). That's my interpretation anyway. Anyhow the evidence here isn't as great as I want it to be, but I feel this is a case of us needing to roll with the cards being dealt. At last resort, do we have internal files referring to this item? {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:24, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-:In regards to the translation bit, the manual has "when Mario gets a Power Flower" and "when Mario gets Wings" in corresponding sections, which would lead one to believe it is referring to the item. I don't have the model/texture data for this game, unfortunately. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:33, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-::Power Flower is stylized in all-caps, so it's more like "when Mario gets a POWER FLOWER" and "when Mario gets Wings". They all-caps other particular names like PAINTING, ? SWITCH, ? BLOCK, WALL KICK, GROUND-POUND, COURSE, BACKWARD SOMERSAULT and TRIPLE JUMP. Not everything gets that treatment but it is curious why Wings doesn't have this. {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:45, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-:::I mean, I am physically holding and looking at the game's manual right now, and there's no allcaps in either section, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:55, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-::::I must be looking at another manual. This booklet[https://cdn02.nintendo-europe.com/media/downloads/games_8/emanuals/nintendo_ds_21/Manual_NintendoDS_SuperMario64DS_EN.pdf] was cited in the article, but url (nintendo-europe) indicates the PAL version of it? It's like that manual I've seen online for Mario Party DS (from Nintendo Europe) having a different "synopsis"[https://archive.org/details/mario-party-ds-manual/page/n3/mode/2up] vs the American one I physically have (which is written on the [[Mario Party DS]] article). {{User:Mario/sig}} 18:24, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::I do have the American one. Not sure if there are any potential "edition" differences between ones of the same region, either. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:37, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-"Crazy people, living under a rock, don't know Wings... [https://youtu.be/0rpsrZb3FcQ?t=78 I LOVE Wings!]" {{User:ThePowerPlayer/sig}} 21:05, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
-I believe that should "Wings" get its own article, the 'Wings' section of the Wing Cap article along with [[File:WingMarioSM64DS.png|x35px]] <-- this artwork should be removed from the Wing Cap article.--{{User:Pizza Master/sig}} 20:19, September 16, 2024 (EDT)
-:Why? As established, the actual item is a feather, the "wings" is a mistranslation. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:35, September 16, 2024 (EDT)
-[[File:Wingfeather.png|frame|"Wings" refers to this]]
-I just meant removing the section that talks about the feather and the aforementioned above artwork of Wing Mario from the Wing Cap page gallery since those would be in the Wings (SM64DS) article separate from the Wing Cap article.--{{User:Pizza Master/sig}} 21:08, September 16, 2024 (EDT)
-:Well that probably should just be on Wing Mario anyways. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:13, September 16, 2024 (EDT)
-::Really depends on what "Wing Cap" is referring to. The gallery seems to make it seem like it's referring to any instance of a hat with wings rather than a collectable powerup. IDK having a gallery of Wing Mario in Wing Cap is like having Metal Mario's gallery also be in [[Metal Cap]]. Not ideal IMO. {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:54, September 20, 2024 (EDT)