Editing Talk:Volcanic debris

==Title==
Is the title of this article conjectural? Or is it actually called this somewhere in-game or in a manual. {{User|Garlic Man}}

:It's not even mentioned in both the game and the manual. It's conjectural. {{User:Supermariofan14/sig}}
::Does this even deserve an article? {{User:Reversinator/sig}}
:::Uh, yeah it does, It's an obstacle that appears in two games. So it should still have it's own article.{{User:YoshiDaisyfan1/sig}}
::::Per YDfan1. {{User:Supermariofan14/sig}}
:You could call it ''Tephra'', which means volcanic rock...
::good then put on a conjectural template. [[User:A Link to the Present|A Link to the Present]] 15:46, 17 February 2011 (EST)
:How about "Meteors". The name was featured in the first level in [[Peach's Castle (New Super Mario Bros. U)|Peach's Castle]] and it definately sounds better than Raining Debris. {{User|Zuper Zaloster}}
::Except "meteors" apply to space rocks that have entered a planet, not pyroclastic matter. The name we have at this moment is clunky, however. Unless this "meteor" name has made more appearances than just this level, we don't use it.<br>{{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 22:40, 17 December 2013 (EST)
:::Another alternative is "Firefall" (the name is mentioned in both New Super Mario Bros. U and New Super Luigi U). I (of course) ain't sure if it's official, but that's all I got. {{User|Zuper Zaloster}}

==Hey==
I know that this is a random Question but, Debris is always pronounced with a silent "S", right? {{unsigned|IGGY7735}}
:I think so, but you should look it up if you really want to know. Don't put the pronunciation on the article (if that's why you're asking): we don't do that on this wiki. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 20:15, 11 February 2011 (EST)

== Official Name ==

They didn't have a official name? I thought on New Super Mario Bros. U, they were name '''Meteor'''... If someone can find a good source. Do IGN is a good source, I'm not sure?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  19:34, 10 April 2015 (EDT)

:The ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' Prima guide uses the name "Bowser's Flames", though there's a clear distinction between the ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' ones that are fireballs and the falling rocks seen in every other game, even if they have the same general purpose.:-[[User:Toa 95|Toa 95]] ([[User talk:Toa 95|talk]])
::Ok, thank you, I will look if there's any source for New Super Mario Bros. 2.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  19:42, 10 April 2015 (EDT)
:::NSMB2 Prima flip-flops between "debris," "falling debris," and "volcanic debris," while <s>NSMBU Prima uses "Bowser's Flames," which isn't really applicable since that's just Bowser's fire breath</s> Toa edit conflicted me and said exactly what I wanted to say <small><small>''grumblegrumble''</small></small>. Unless we have insight into the NSMBW Prima guide, that may be about as good of an answer that you'll get. {{User:Time Turner/sig}}
::::OK, Thank You [[User:Time Turner|Time Turner]]!--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  19:46, 10 April 2015 (EDT)
In the article, it say they appear in Paper Mario: Sticker Star and they are known as '''Meteors''', should we move the article to that name?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  13:49, 12 April 2015 (EDT)

== Meteor, the official name? ==

In the article, it say - '''In Paper Mario: Sticker Star they are known as meteors'''. I put template for reference. It make me remember also that the first level of Peach's Castle in New Super Mario Bros. U was name [[Meteor Moat]]. Maybe '''meteor''' is the official name?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  06:52, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:Meteor Moat certainly adds credence to the idea that Meteor is the official name. Even if we don't have a quote handy at the moment (I'm sure Kersti or another NPC mentions it), I'd almost suggest simply renaming this to Meteor with the <nowiki>{{Bettersource}}</nowiki> tag since it's there's at least a bit more evidence than the current name. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 23:06, 18 May 2015 (EDT)
::The only problem is there's already exist a article name [[Meteor]]. What I think is that [[Meteor]] and [[Raining Debris]] are the same . I will make a Proposal to merge Raining Debris with Meteor and we will see if it Passed. What you think about it?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  14:03, 19 May 2015 (EDT)
:::The meteors of the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' games look and act the same as the ones from ''Paper Mario: Sticker Star'' and the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' series, and also seem to be named from an in-game level source ([[Through the Meteor Storm]]), so I'd say go for it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:55, 19 May 2015 (EDT)

== Merge Raining Debris with Meteor ==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|5-10|do not merge}}
They are mostly name meteor in some recent games. In New Super Mario Bros. U, there is a level name [[Meteor Moat]], despite the fact, that in [[New Super Mario Bros. U]] this is mostly Bowser's fireball. As the article say, in [[Paper Mario: Sticker Star]] they are known as meteors despite a reference would be necessary. In general, the meteors of the Super Mario Galaxy games look and act the same as the ones from Paper Mario: Sticker Star and the New Super Mario Bros. series, and also seem to be named from an in-game level from Super Mario Galaxy, [[Melty Molten Galaxy|Through the Meteor Storm]]. It make evidences they are the same.

'''Proposer''': {{User|LudwigVon}}<br>
'''Deadline''': June 2, 2015, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per my proposal.
#{{User|ShyGuy8}} Per Proposal
#{{User|Binarystep}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Magikrazy}} It doesn't really matter if the raining debris is volcanic or whatever. They look and do the same thing.
#{{User|Pyro Guy}} Per all, especially Magicrazy.

====Oppose====
#{{User|1337star}} They may be meteors in ''NSMBU'', sure. But what about the other games mentioned here, where the "raining debris" is clearly volcanic in origin? Calling them all "meteors" grossly misrepresents most of the instances on this page.
#{{User|Time Turner}} Per 1337.
#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Per 1337star.
#{{User|Mario}} As I said, "'meteors' apply to space rocks that have entered a planet, not pyroclastic matter. The name we have at this moment is clunky, however. Unless this 'meteor' name has made more appearances than just this level, we don't use it." Finally, the ''Paper Mario: Sticker Star'' argument is a weak one because there is a citation needed tag attached to it. This is an issue of nomenclature for the most part, and I prefer "raining debris". It's fine the way it is now.
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} I don't like the "Raining Debris" name, it sounds too...layman and lack of vocabulary, how I say it. Possibly a better name is "Volcanic Rocks" or "Pyroclastic Rocks" (though the latter sounds too...ugh for the lack of a better word also, "professional" imo). But I don't like merging all of what the page has to offer into "Meteor". ''Maybe'' we could merge the New Super Mario Bros. U content into the Meteor article considering that it's sorta named that there. But I disagree with moving the entire page. As a very casual and very amateur astronomer, it just irks me to see the term "Meteor" also being used to describe volcanic matter which could perpetrate misconceptions. So definitely per 1337star and Mario on that regard. By the way, your [[Through the Meteor Storm]] example is weak, it clearly doesn't show that they're originated from the volcano from the planet, it shows that they're extraterrestrial in origin. I haven't played the game in a while though so I may be wrong.
#{{User|Lumastar}} Per all.
#{{User|Marshal Dan Troop}} Per all.
#{{User|Burningdragon25}} Per all!
#{{User|TheHelper100}} I'm not sure if somebody already said this but I'll say it anyway, Raining Debris are fired from volcanoes and although meteors are fired from space volcanoes some just randomly appear and there's no volcano in the area so I think it's safe to say that meteors are different from Raining Debris.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all. The current name's terrible, but at least it's not misinformation, as would be the case if the content is merged, because things blown out of volcanoes are ''not'' meteors, they're [[wikipedia:Tephra|Tephra]], or Pyroclastic Debris, but like Baby Luigi pointed out about "Pyroclastic Rocks", those are probably too technical as replacement names. But "Volcanic Debris" seems like a good option: "volcano" isn't dense jargon at all, and overall, it's more descriptive than "Raining Debris" (which makes me think of the falling garbage in ''DK94'' more than anything) or mere "Volcanic Rocks" (which could just be about the landscape / rocks on the ground).

====Comments====
By the way, in reality, volcanic rocks and meteors "look" about the same too and they pretty much "act" the same if you look at it casually: they're both really hot, giant boulders that fall from the sky (one of them came from a volcano shooting its stuff off while the other comes from outer space). Just something I'd throw out there. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:05, 23 May 2015 (EDT)

@TheHelper

''although meteors are fired from space volcanoes some just randomly appear and there's no volcano in the area''

That's exactly what meteors are. They are burning meteorites from outer space entering the planet. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:18, 2 June 2015 (EDT)

@Walkazo, I'll rename the page once this TPP is settled, considering that your suggestion a far better conjecture name than this. I'll update links and stuff too. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:19, 2 June 2015 (EDT)
:Sounds good. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 16:20, 2 June 2015 (EDT)

====Super Mario 64/DS possible appearance!?====
I downloaded Super Mario 64 for my Wii U yesterday and I just finished Lethal Lava Land and just noticed something since Volcanic Debris come out of volcanoes then doesn't that mean that Volcanic Debris first appear in Super Mario 64? {{User|TheHelper100}} 22:31, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Official Name ==
Today I got the Prima game guide of New Super Mario Bros. U. At the very end of the book, on page 253 , instead of calling Bowser 's Flame , they are called meteor. It say ''This Boost Mode chanllenge is similar to Coins in the Forecast - only this time, Mario must dodge falling '''meteors''' while he jumps around and collects Coins. Place plenty of Boost Blocks to give Mario options on where he can leap, and try to keep the Boost Blocks low so that Mario has enough time to avoid the '''meteors''' as he collects the falling Coins.'' One of this section also have a tip and it say: ''Tap '''Meteors''' to destroy them before they hit Mario. You can also tap the Coins to pop their parachutes and cause them to drop toward Mario more quickly'' Also one of the level of this game is name Meteor Moat. What about it?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  15:41, 11 December 2015 (EST)
::They're already mentioned in the [[Meteor]] article. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 15:50, 11 December 2015 (EST)
:::Okay, but why the currect template implied the article is conjectural for a part of his content? Rather than conjectural for all of the content?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  15:54, 11 December 2015 (EST)
::::Nevermind, it was change to conjectural for a part of the content when the NSMBU information was on this page but never come back to conjectural when the NSMBU information go to Meteor.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  16:01, 11 December 2015 (EST)

== Helio and pyroclast ==

{{talk}}
Both [[Helio (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)|Helio]] and [[pyroclast]] are the same generic subject of "powerful lava rock" as this, and the former has the same lang-of-origin name. These should all be merged to pyroclast, as it is the recent in-game name. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:28, March 2, 2023 (EST)
:Pyroclast is a Mario + Rabbids stage hazard with a name that hasn't been used in any other game so I don't think we should jump the gun with that (not sure if Japanese is the lang of origin for the M+R games). Not sure what to say with Helio just yet, though at the very least it seems to be more sentient. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 07:04, March 5, 2023 (EST)
::So are Blasters and Exor's eyes, "sentience" in SMRPG based on the thought isn't saying much. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:32, March 5, 2023 (EST)
:::That wasn't what I was talking about (didn't even think about Psychopath thoughts when typing my comment), I meant that Helio's rise out of the lava at the Czar Dragon's command and then eventually attack on their own; volcanic debris in other games is literally real life volcanic debris. Technically Pyroclasts might be too, but like I said because it's a Mario + Rabbids subject we're talking about that situation is a bit more complicated. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 10:59, March 5, 2023 (EST)
::::Like [[Talk:Greaper|Boo Guy and Greaper]], the remake giving Helio a name different from volcanic debris in every new language translation complicates matters a tad... [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:00, April 21, 2024 (EDT)
:::::At the same time, it adds an insistence regarding it being an ordinary rock. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:10, April 21, 2024 (EDT)
::::::The monster list bio in the remake: "It looks like a rock, so you might wonder if it can even be considered a monster. But since you can get a peek at its thoughts, it must be one, right?" I'd say this pretty much confirms Helios are a different thing from volcanic debris. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 14:21, April 21, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::It also lampshades other non-"living" things, like Blasters, though, which have since been merged with Bill Blasters. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:42, April 21, 2024 (EDT)