Editing Talk:Valentina

'''This article contained stolen information from [http://www.mariomonsters.com/v/valentina/index.html Mario Monsters]. Both the Characteristics and Background sections were exact copies from the linked page. I was forced to remove this info from the article and restub it. The original creator, [[Special:Contributions/Thai420|Thai420 (contribs)]], added this info.''' {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 00:56, 7 January 2007 (EST)

Are you guys sure shes human? She has pink skin and a weird nostril?{{User:Knife/sig}}

:This is a matter of debate. I will remove the info because it is contraversial. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

Valentina is so darn UGLY! But this article looks nice for the person who wrote it :) {{User:LilBooster/sig}}

== Smithy Gang ==

Does anyone know if Valentina works for Smithy or not?

:She does not she simply wanted to take over Nimbus land {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}

== Editing ==

I've completely edited Valentina's storyline section, editing what's already there and adding some new stuff. If something's missing or you decide to change it, please contact me. -[[Prince Materia]]

==Axolotl==
The article says she has a "somewhat frog-like face", but I've always assumed she was meant to be an anthropomorphic axolotl. Her facial features, head shape, facial profile, pink skin, hand shape, baldness, and feathery wig all made me feel that's what she's meant to be. The way she changes to a giant size during battle might also be an axolotl reference, since they can be forced to undergo metamorphosis and may become huge. If axolotls metamorphose, they gain very sleepy-looking eyelids and the ability to breath air, both of which she has. But the most obvious physical change is losing their feather-like gills which makes them appear "bald", which she is confirmed to be underneath the parrot wig. I assumed that's why she wore the feathery wig, which has three prominent pairs of feathers, just like an axolotl's three prominent pairs of feathery gills. She also carries a margarita drink, which is associated with and possibly originated in Mexico, where axolotls are native. Should her physical description be changed to say "somewhat axolotl-like face" instead of "somewhat frog-like face", and "pink-skinned" instead of "pale-skinned"? She doesn't really resemble frogs in the Mario universe. {{unsigned|72.182.64.35}}
:Nice observations! I'd agree to this unless we find a source stating otherwise. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:44, December 3, 2023 (EST)
::I dunno. We've seen her concept art and it doesn't look very axolotl-like. Plus, axolotls weren't really much of a well-known thing before the days of the internet being more than a luxury, more an obscure curiosity in science books and the exotic pet trade. (Note how axolotls didn't really explicitly appear in pop-culture until things like webcomics started to become big). The first clear axolotl in a Nintendo game I can think of, for example, was Dr. Shrunk in the DS ''Animal Crossing'' game, released 9 years later when the species was starting to get more mainstream attention. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:10, December 3, 2023 (EST)
:::It's true axolotls weren't mainstream back when she first appeared, but that doesn't mean she isn't one, or doesn't resemble one at least. They still existed, and even as a child back then, I recognized her as one. Doc von Schmeltwick brought up the species mostly being known as obscurities and exotic pets back then, and I think those could also potentially be defending points about her being one, since she feels like an exotic, and even somewhat obscure character. I feel like the Switch remake's improved graphics and new angles of her face in her pre-battle animations solidify her appearance as being "axolotl-like" further. As for axolotl Nintendo characters before Dr. Shrunk, there were a few axolotl-based Pokémon, such as Chansey, Wooper, and Mudkip. She may have just been one of the first of an obscure species to appear as a Nintendo character, alongside Chansey who also debuted in the same year. As for her concept art, many characters' designs and roles end up drastically different than their concept arts. In [https://twitter.com/kurashimakaz/status/1369697859868659714 another concept art], she appeared to fight with a bow and arrow and was part of the Smithy Gang, subordinate to Bowyer. She didn't end up that way either. It would also be quite interesting, if she actually were a metamorphosed axolotl, the symbolism and implication that she went from water, to land, and is now attempting to conquer the sky. To possibly further this, axolotls are associated with Xolotl, an Aztec god connected with the sky, who is said to have transformed into an axolotl. He also guided the setting sun (symbolizing death) for the moon, which may be why Valentina rides a moon during battle. She also has a turquoise diamond shaped pattern and a red string tied on her dress. Diamonds are a common shape in Aztec patterns and designs, and turquoise was closely linked to their gods, such as Xolotl. Red strings were tied onto arrowheads carried by Aztec women during eclipses to ward off various evils (another setting sun / death / moon reference), and Valentina's concept art showed at one point she was going to fight with arrows. The red string superstition was passed down over centuries, but nowadays Mexican women wear red undergarments instead. Valentina's red strings appear to be tied to her dress, but may possibly also be tied to her undergarments. But back to the point, we may never get official confirmation of her species, but she still appears to be much more axolotl-like than frog-like.--[[Special:Contributions/72.182.64.35|72.182.64.35]] 13:42, December 3, 2023 (EST)
@@ Line 21: / Line 21: @@
 :Nice observations! I'd agree to this unless we find a source stating otherwise. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:44, December 3, 2023 (EST)
 ::I dunno. We've seen her concept art and it doesn't look very axolotl-like. Plus, axolotls weren't really much of a well-known thing before the days of the internet being more than a luxury, more an obscure curiosity in science books and the exotic pet trade. (Note how axolotls didn't really explicitly appear in pop-culture until things like webcomics started to become big). The first clear axolotl in a Nintendo game I can think of, for example, was Dr. Shrunk in the DS ''Animal Crossing'' game, released 9 years later when the species was starting to get more mainstream attention. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:10, December 3, 2023 (EST)
-:::It's true axolotls weren't mainstream back when she first appeared, but that doesn't mean she isn't one, or doesn't resemble one at least. They still existed, and even as a child back then, I recognized her as one. Doc von Schmeltwick brought up the species mostly being known as obscurities and exotic pets back then, and I think those could also potentially be defending points about her being one, since she feels like an exotic, and even somewhat obscure character. I feel like the Switch remake's improved graphics and new angles of her face in her pre-battle animations solidify her appearance as being "axolotl-like" further. As for axolotl Nintendo characters before Dr. Shrunk, there were a few axolotl-based Pokémon, such as Chansey, Wooper, and Mudkip. She may have just been one of the first of an obscure species to appear as a Nintendo character, alongside Chansey who also debuted in the same year. As for her concept art, many characters' designs and roles end up drastically different than their concept arts. In [https://twitter.com/kurashimakaz/status/1369697859868659714 another concept art], she appeared to fight with a bow and arrow and was part of the Smithy Gang, subordinate to Bowyer. She didn't end up that way either. It would also be quite interesting, if she actually were a metamorphosed axolotl, the symbolism and implication that she went from water, to land, and is now attempting to conquer the sky. To possibly further this, axolotls (which are found exclusively in the region of the ancient Aztecs) are associated with Xolotl, an Aztec god connected with the sky, who is said to have transformed into an axolotl. He also guided the setting sun (symbolizing death) for the moon, which may be why Valentina rides a moon during battle. In the Switch remake, she also has a turquoise diamond shaped pattern set in gold, and a red string tied on her dress. Diamonds are a common shape in Aztec patterns and designs, and turquoise was closely linked to their gods, such as Xolotl. Turquoise and gold are often paired together in Aztec inspired jewelry and designs, symbolizing Aztec Gold, which some fear is symbolic of curses and death. Red strings were tied onto arrowheads carried by Aztec women during eclipses to ward off various evils (another setting sun / death / moon reference), and Valentina's concept art showed at one point she was going to fight with arrows. The red string superstition was passed down over centuries, but nowadays Mexican women wear red undergarments instead. Valentina's red strings appear to be tied to her dress, but may possibly also be tied to her undergarments. But back to the point, we may never get official confirmation of her species, but she still appears to be much more axolotl-like than frog-like.--[[Special:Contributions/72.182.64.35|72.182.64.35]] 13:42, December 3, 2023 (EST)
+:::It's true axolotls weren't mainstream back when she first appeared, but that doesn't mean she isn't one, or doesn't resemble one at least. They still existed, and even as a child back then, I recognized her as one. Doc von Schmeltwick brought up the species mostly being known as obscurities and exotic pets back then, and I think those could also potentially be defending points about her being one, since she feels like an exotic, and even somewhat obscure character. I feel like the Switch remake's improved graphics and new angles of her face in her pre-battle animations solidify her appearance as being "axolotl-like" further. As for axolotl Nintendo characters before Dr. Shrunk, there were a few axolotl-based Pokémon, such as Chansey, Wooper, and Mudkip. She may have just been one of the first of an obscure species to appear as a Nintendo character, alongside Chansey who also debuted in the same year. As for her concept art, many characters' designs and roles end up drastically different than their concept arts. In [https://twitter.com/kurashimakaz/status/1369697859868659714 another concept art], she appeared to fight with a bow and arrow and was part of the Smithy Gang, subordinate to Bowyer. She didn't end up that way either. It would also be quite interesting, if she actually were a metamorphosed axolotl, the symbolism and implication that she went from water, to land, and is now attempting to conquer the sky. To possibly further this, axolotls are associated with Xolotl, an Aztec god connected with the sky, who is said to have transformed into an axolotl. He also guided the setting sun (symbolizing death) for the moon, which may be why Valentina rides a moon during battle. She also has a turquoise diamond shaped pattern and a red string tied on her dress. Diamonds are a common shape in Aztec patterns and designs, and turquoise was closely linked to their gods, such as Xolotl. Red strings were tied onto arrowheads carried by Aztec women during eclipses to ward off various evils (another setting sun / death / moon reference), and Valentina's concept art showed at one point she was going to fight with arrows. The red string superstition was passed down over centuries, but nowadays Mexican women wear red undergarments instead. Valentina's red strings appear to be tied to her dress, but may possibly also be tied to her undergarments. But back to the point, we may never get official confirmation of her species, but she still appears to be much more axolotl-like than frog-like.--[[Special:Contributions/72.182.64.35|72.182.64.35]] 13:42, December 3, 2023 (EST)
-::::This is all perhaps too theoretical, but I believe it over the frog face. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:14, December 4, 2023 (EST)
-::::For future reference, Jiro Mifune was [https://twitter.com/DMechano/status/1728128507287597077 asked] about Margarita/Valentina's race, and he [https://twitter.com/JiroMifune/status/1728195637555130373 responded] that while she definitely isn't a human or a bird*(Marshmallow/Nimbus in the original question), her design was modeled after a certain creature that he wants to leave as a mystery. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:14, December 7, 2023 (EST)
-==Valentina's origins==
-The article states that Valentina was a former aide to the king and queen. Where exactly was this info found? I've never seen anything in-game that states this. [[User:Mikan-chan|Mikan-chan]] ([[User talk:Mikan-chan|talk]]) 08:22, January 11, 2024 (EST)