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| == Split {{fake link|Water Bazooka}} and {{fake link|Electric Bazooka}} from Undergrunt Gunner == | | == Split {{fake link|Water Bazooka}} and {{fake link|Electric Bazooka}} from Undergrunt Gunner == |
| {{settled TPP}} | | {{TPP}} |
| {{Proposal outcome|cancelled}} | | ===Split {{fake link|Water Bazooka}} and {{fake link|Electric Bazooka}} Bosses from Undergunt Gunner=== |
| Where to start? | | Where to start? |
| 1. Each of these three individuals has their own name in "Each Language." | | 1. Each of these three individuals has their own name in "Each Language." |
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| '''Deadline''': April 12, 2025, 23:59 GMT | | '''Deadline''': April 12, 2025, 23:59 GMT |
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| ===Split Them!!!!(Support)=== | | ====Split Them!!!!(Support)==== |
| #{{User|Sorbetti}} Per proposal. | | #{{User|Sorbetti}} Per proposal. |
| <s>{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Keeping them merged doesn't make sense to me. Per proposer.</s>
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| ===Keep Merged(Oppose)=== | | ====Keep Merged(Oppose)==== |
| #{{User|Pseudo}} These are just machines operated by the Undergrunt Gunner, who always has a consistent design. The proposal claims that these three entities act differently, and while the two cannons do act differently from one another, the Undergrunt Gunner itself always looks and acts more or less the same, and all three of the boss fights against it in ''Super Mario Galaxy'' have very similar (though not identical) mechanics. I would ask: who does it actually help to split these cannons? The Gunner is never seen without its guns, so I don't see why a wiki reader would intend to look at articles for those guns separately. They have no existence outside this guy's boss fight and are not sufficiently separable from it, to me. The way the cannons' names are currently covered on the articles seems adequate.
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| #{{User|Arend}} I'm being reminded of the fact that there was a proposal to merge the Stompybot 3000 to [[Colonel Pluck]], as this also concerns pieces of machinery that a boss is never seen without.
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| #{{User|PrincessPeachFan}}: Per all. It's clearly the same guy.
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| #{{User|DryBonesBandit}} I wasn't aware of the game divide. Changing my vote, per all.
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| ===Underground Comments===
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| Re: "While the other two are bosses, the Undergrunt Gunner is an enemy! I don't see any logic", the Undergrunt Gunner ''is'' a boss in ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' who operates the Water and Electric Bazookas as part of its boss fights. In ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]'', the Undergrunt Gunner is a generic enemy instead of a boss, but it's still the same creature with the same name and design (keep in mind that the name Undergrunt Gunner is used in-game in the first game by Captain Toad). Characters can sometimes change roles between enemies and bosses between games, but that doesn't make them separate entities. See [[Wiggler]], who is a generic enemy in ''[[Super Mario World]]'', but a boss in ''[[Super Mario 64]]''. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 02:03, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
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| {{@|PrincessPeachFan}}: The proposal is not saying that the Undergrunt Gunner manning the Water Bazooka is different from the Undergrunt Gunner manning the Electric Bazooka: it's about splitting ''both bazookas'' from the Undergrunt Gunner. {{User:Arend/sig}} 08:02, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
| | ====Underground Comments==== |
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| {{@|Pseudo}} {{@|Arend}} {{@|PrincessPeachFan}} Yes, what you said is right, but you were wrong on one point, and that's my point.
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| There are times when enemies like Shy Guys or Koopas tend to act differently between games, using new mechanics, weapons, or outfits. Are we going to separate them? No.
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| But we have pages like woozy guy or mace guy, but why, why do we have them separated if they are still shy guys with different mechanics? Simple, because they are recognized by Nintendo as separate entities, it is the same case of this article, if the undergunt gunner is the one who operates the bazookas, but as the name indicates it refers more to the weapon than to the operator, and Nintendo in each guide, each page, and in Mario portal classifies them as different entities, if you want in the undergunt Gunner article we can mention that there are 2 bosses that are operated by undergunt gunners, but they do not deserve to be together.[[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]]) 09:42, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
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| :The difference here to me is that in the vast majority of games in which they appear, Shy Guys are seen on their own without leaping around or swinging maces, and this is in fact the default state of Shy Guys even in ''SMW2: Yoshi's Island''. The contrast between ordinary Shy Guys, Woozy Guys, and Mace Guys is manifestly obvious in that game because the majority of Shy Guys a player sees in this game and related games are "ordinary" Shy Guys.
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| :On the other hand, as I said in my opposition vote, the Undergrunt Gunner is never without its guns. There are a few different guns it uses, sure, and that’s worth mentioning, but it is ultimately defined by being a boss (or enemy in the second game) who operates a cannon, never seen on its own (the closest to this guy being seen on its own is the ordinary [[Undergrunt]], who ''does'' deservedly have a separate article).
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| :I would again ask: who does this help, from your perspective? What aid will it provide to wiki navigation to split the cannons? Undergrunt Gunner is never seen without one of these cannons, so there's little to say about them individually. Arend is right to bring up [[Colonel Pluck]] and the Stompybot 3000 as a point of comparison. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 10:44, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
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| :...Sorbetti, you do realize that Woozy Guy and Mace Guy are kind of ''bad examples'' for this, right? When it comes to what the actually do, these Shy Guys do ''something completely different compared to normal Shy Guys'', and THAT, ''alongside'' its name, justifies a split: Woozy Guy moves about by flip-jumping forwards, while Mace Guy stays in one place as it spins around a spiked ball on a chain (like those on maces). And a regular Shy Guy... just walks.<br>Compare that to the Bazookas that the Undergrunt Gunner operates: the ONLY difference is the projectile that it's shooting. If you want an actual good example for justifying a split, you need to find a pair of enemies that do something similar but have a different projectile or weapon, which this wiki has plenty of: [[Fire Bro]] and [[Ice Bro]], for example.<br>Even then, you're still ignoring the fact that an Undergrunt Gunner is ''never seen without either bazooka cannon in Galaxy 1''. Again, this makes the whole Woozy Guy/Mace Guy/Shy Guy thing incomparable (and the same goes for the Fire Bro/Ice Bro thing I just mentioned), since these are all separate entities that can ''operate on their own''. This is more of a [[Dribble & Spitz]]-type situation where you ''never see one without the other''. Or, as I previously mentioned, [[Colonel Pluck]] with his Stompybot 3000. {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:01, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
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| my opinion is that the Water and Electric bazookas should stay together, but the tiny, clown-car esque pod that shoots bullet bills should be split. could an option be made for that? {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 11:34, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
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| ==Regarding the previous== | |
| I want to point out that in the Japanese script, these are treated as the same "enemy" as [[Undergrunt]]s themselves, while the vehicles are treated as the bosses (the latter of which is reflected on Portal). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:09, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
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| :MMMM, I still don't see the reason for keeping Undergrunt Gunner with Water and Electric Bazooka, I'll cancel the proposal to try to discuss it in the discord server[[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]]) 11:11, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
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| :What about the Undergrunt Gunners in ''Galaxy 2''? {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:35, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
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