Editing Talk:Trash Can

Will this be updated to add Arcade GP info? The Mario Kart Series Items template is there, yet there's nothing about the item in Mario Kart. [[Special:Contributions/24.99.96.92|24.99.96.92]] 22:02, 3 May 2014 (EDT)

== "Official name" ==

Page 25 of the ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' instruction booklet calls it a "Garbage Can", and Page 16 of the ''Game Boy Donkey Kong'' instruction booklet calls it a "Trash Can". Where did "Bin" come from? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:46, 9 October 2014 (EDT)

== Name ==

Shouldn't this be moved to Garbage Can, seeing as how that's the most recent North American name and "Bin" is an old PAL name? [[User:Niiue|Niiue]] ([[User talk:Niiue|talk]]) 07:19, 27 December 2015 (EST)
:The name "Bin" comes from the digital manual of ''Donkey Kong'' -- well, the 3DS PAL Virtual Console edition. Therefore, it is more recent than "Garbage Can". -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}}
::Is it a completely new manual, or is it a scan/recreation of the old game's manual? {{User:Time Turner/sig}}
:::It is not a scan; it is completely new. The object in question is named differently in both editions of the manual (i.e. in the old one, it's called "Trash Can", whereas it is renamed "Bin" in the latter manual). Then again, I only own the PAL version of the game on 3DS, whose manual is the one I am comparing to the older, North American manual. There might be mere regional differences, in which case I'd say we immediately change the article's name to "Trash Can". -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}}

== Split Bin and Bucketman ==

{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-3|don't split}}
For starters, this page doesn't seem to have a specific focus. So far, it covers an inanimate object, an enemy, a ''different'' inanimate object from another game, and a Mario Kart item. Besides, there really isn't any good reason to have an object merged with its enemy counterpart, especially when both have unique Japanese names.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Niiue}}<br>
'''Deadline''': August 29, 2017, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Niiue}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Per General Subject guidelines, this should certainly be split. The enemy is a living trash can, the object is just a trash can.

===Oppose===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} The current article covers the subject adequately enough (barring the ''Mario Kart Arcade GP'' appearance, which should really be a much higher priority split since it's very obviously an entirely different item). For one thing, we actually have two Japanese names for the obstacle version, and apparently the only difference between the two is that one can't be picked up and the other can - so why not go all the way and also include both in the proposal since that would seem more like an "all or nothing" case? Second, the garbage can is animated in the GBA ''Mario Bros.'', so separation on the basis of whether or not it's inanimate doesn't strictly work out. Third, the object just isn't that remarkable on its own - the fact that there are some that move is exactly what makes it noteworthy. Fourth, keeping the merge saves us from piling on yet another foreign tag to the wiki that'll absolutely never get cleared, which is ideal whenever it can be helped. All in all, this is fine - let's work on the ''Mario Kart'' item instead.
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Per LinkTheLefty.

===Comments===
However this plays out, I definitely agree to splitting the Mario Kart item. No proposal needed, let's just give it its own page whenever possible. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 15:13, 15 August 2017 (EDT)
:I'll create that soon, then. [[User:Niiue|Niiue]] ([[User talk:Niiue|talk]]) 20:41, 15 August 2017 (EDT)

==Split the object and the enemy: Take 2==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|cancelled}}
This article is still an unfocused mess, and the page for the ''Arcade GP'' item has still not been split. Having the enemy (enemies? Japanese material calls them different things, so it could be a [[Dōryī]] vs. [[Tane Pakkun]] situation, but in this case, they look [https://www.spriters-resource.com/game_boy_advance/mariovsdk/sheet/36185/ virtually] {{media link|DKGB TrashCan.png|identical}}.) is basically the same as having [[Penny (enemy)|Wendy's pinch-happy pennies]] in the same article as the generic [[Coin]], or having [[Fake Block]] in the same article as [[Brick Block]]. If they're significantly different, particularly when that difference involves life or lack thereof, they should be in a separate article. I'm not sure what the enemy article would be named, whether it would be "Bin (enemy)" or "Bucketman."

'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 5, 2018, 23:59 GMT '''Cancelled''': December 22nd, 2017

===Split enemy from object===
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per proposal.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per Doc.

===Keep them together===

===Comments===
Why are we using "Bin" anyways? Sure it's more recent, but haven't historically American English names taken precedence on here over European English names as of about 5~ years ago? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:11, 22 December 2017 (EST)
:Couldn't we have opened a discussion first? The previous proposal wasn't really that long ago, and nothing major has changed about this article except for some ''Super Mario Odyssey'' information. We could've reached a better consensus on what should or shouldn't be in the article. I agree that the ''Mario Kart Arcade GP'' item should've easily been split by now, which I thought was already addressed last time. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:20, 22 December 2017 (EST)
::That never happened though, from what I've seen. And quite honestly, just the fact that we have other "enemies disguised as objects" as separate articles is a valid enough point to just skip straight to the proposal. In my opinion. Honestly the last proposal seems to have mostly flown under the radar, what with only having 5 votes. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:30, 22 December 2017 (EST)
:::For the record, I was going to split the Mario Kart item, I just wanted to find a picture of it first. [[User:Niiue|Niiue]] ([[User talk:Niiue|talk]]) 15:34, 22 December 2017 (EST)
::::If anything, it should be more comprehensive than the last one, because the article is indeed getting bloated. For example, did you know that the Waste Basket slot from ''Super Mario RPG'' has the same name as the Bin in the Japanese version? It could be added to this article, but it contributes to the lack of cohesion to have it in the same space that includes any inanimate one, the occasional enemy, the ''Mario Bros. Battle'' object, the ''Mario Kart'' item... I think we could start talking about how these subjects should divided up rather than diving right back into the same exact proposal that looks at only one part of the article. I mean, the proposal states outright that there's no decision on which name to go with in the split article - ideally, you want to know how things are going to look ahead of time. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:48, 22 December 2017 (EST)
:::::That sounds all right, I suppose. Who do I talk to to go about cancelling? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:50, 22 December 2017 (EST)
::::::At this point, you can cancel it yourself if you want. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:51, 22 December 2017 (EST)
:::::::How do I do that? I checked the main proposal page, but it didn't tell me enough. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:56, 22 December 2017 (EST)
::::::::You just change the TPP template the top to {{tem|SettledTPP}}, mark the proposal as canceled with the proper {{tem|ProposalOutcome}}, and add a link to this proposal on the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive|talk page archive]]. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:59, 22 December 2017 (EST)
:::::::::OK. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:08, 22 December 2017 (EST)

==Time for thoughtful discussion==
{{talk}}
OK, the Kart item was agreed to be split. It hasn't yet due to lack of images, which is a problem with modern arcade games it seems. Anyways, we have what amounts to the Trash Can variation of a [[Fake Block]], [[Poison Mushroom]], or [[Penny (enemy)|Penny]], along with inanimate trash cans that can be used as platforms, inanimate trash can's with even more vastly different purposes, all under the generic name of "Bin," with absolutely no cohesion to the article. We need to work out what is going to be split, what is going to stay, and what names and/or identifiers to be used for each. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:17, 22 December 2017 (EST)
:At this point, I'm inclined to believe we should just split it all. I'm thinking the basic inanimate object from Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' can be named '''Bin''' since that's [[MarioWiki_talk:Naming#Make_an_exception_to_source_priority_for_articles_with_identical_names|unique]] (and maybe include ''Super Mario Odyssey'' since it's close enough), the animate ''Mario Bros. Battle'' object can be named '''Garbage Can''', and the ''Mario Kart Arcade GP'' item can be named '''Trash Can'''. All these subjects fulfill different roles and have different characteristics. '''Waste Basket''' from ''Super Mario RPG'' could be a new article as well. As for which name to use for the enemy - why not use both? '''Dust Man''' for the Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' and '''Bucketman''' for ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong''. The difference is that Mario can't pick up a Dust Man but can pick up a Bucketman, and a similar interaction difference is part of the reason why others like Monkikki / Monchee and Dōryī / Tane Pakkun got split. Keeping the enemy merged does save having to pile on some more perpetual foreign language tags, but that can't really be helped now. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:42, 22 December 2017 (EST)

== Help. ==

Does anybody Know Which Levels in Donkey Kong For The Game Boy have The Bins as actually living enemies and Which have The Bins as Just inanimate Objects? [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]
@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 == Split Bin and Bucketman ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{SettledTPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-3|do not split}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-3|don't split}}
 For starters, this page doesn't seem to have a specific focus. So far, it covers an inanimate object, an enemy, a ''different'' inanimate object from another game, and a Mario Kart item. Besides, there really isn't any good reason to have an object merged with its enemy counterpart, especially when both have unique Japanese names.
@@ Line 35: / Line 35: @@
 ==Split the object and the enemy: Take 2==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{SettledTPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|cancelled}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|cancelled}}
-This article is still an unfocused mess, and the page for the ''Arcade GP'' item has still not been split. Having the enemy (enemies? Japanese material calls them different things, so it could be a [[Dōryī]] vs. [[Tane Pakkun]] situation, but in this case, they look [https://www.spriters-resource.com/game_boy_advance/mariovsdk/sheet/36185/ virtually] {{file link|DKGB TrashCan.png|identical}}.) is basically the same as having [[Penny (enemy)|Wendy's pinch-happy pennies]] in the same article as the generic [[Coin]], or having [[Fake Block]] in the same article as [[Brick Block]]. If they're significantly different, particularly when that difference involves life or lack thereof, they should be in a separate article. I'm not sure what the enemy article would be named, whether it would be "Bin (enemy)" or "Bucketman."
+This article is still an unfocused mess, and the page for the ''Arcade GP'' item has still not been split. Having the enemy (enemies? Japanese material calls them different things, so it could be a [[Dōryī]] vs. [[Tane Pakkun]] situation, but in this case, they look [https://www.spriters-resource.com/game_boy_advance/mariovsdk/sheet/36185/ virtually] {{media link|DKGB TrashCan.png|identical}}.) is basically the same as having [[Penny (enemy)|Wendy's pinch-happy pennies]] in the same article as the generic [[Coin]], or having [[Fake Block]] in the same article as [[Brick Block]]. If they're significantly different, particularly when that difference involves life or lack thereof, they should be in a separate article. I'm not sure what the enemy article would be named, whether it would be "Bin (enemy)" or "Bucketman."
 '''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
@@ Line 57: / Line 57: @@
 ::::::At this point, you can cancel it yourself if you want. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:51, 22 December 2017 (EST)
 :::::::How do I do that? I checked the main proposal page, but it didn't tell me enough. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:56, 22 December 2017 (EST)
-::::::::You just change the TPP template the top to {{tem|Settled TPP}}, mark the proposal as canceled with the proper {{tem|Proposal outcome}}, and add a link to this proposal on the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive|talk page archive]]. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:59, 22 December 2017 (EST)
+::::::::You just change the TPP template the top to {{tem|SettledTPP}}, mark the proposal as canceled with the proper {{tem|ProposalOutcome}}, and add a link to this proposal on the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive|talk page archive]]. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:59, 22 December 2017 (EST)
 :::::::::OK. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:08, 22 December 2017 (EST)
 ==Time for thoughtful discussion==
+{{talk}}
 OK, the Kart item was agreed to be split. It hasn't yet due to lack of images, which is a problem with modern arcade games it seems. Anyways, we have what amounts to the Trash Can variation of a [[Fake Block]], [[Poison Mushroom]], or [[Penny (enemy)|Penny]], along with inanimate trash cans that can be used as platforms, inanimate trash can's with even more vastly different purposes, all under the generic name of "Bin," with absolutely no cohesion to the article. We need to work out what is going to be split, what is going to stay, and what names and/or identifiers to be used for each. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:17, 22 December 2017 (EST)
 :At this point, I'm inclined to believe we should just split it all. I'm thinking the basic inanimate object from Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' can be named '''Bin''' since that's [[MarioWiki_talk:Naming#Make_an_exception_to_source_priority_for_articles_with_identical_names|unique]] (and maybe include ''Super Mario Odyssey'' since it's close enough), the animate ''Mario Bros. Battle'' object can be named '''Garbage Can''', and the ''Mario Kart Arcade GP'' item can be named '''Trash Can'''. All these subjects fulfill different roles and have different characteristics. '''Waste Basket''' from ''Super Mario RPG'' could be a new article as well. As for which name to use for the enemy - why not use both? '''Dust Man''' for the Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' and '''Bucketman''' for ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong''. The difference is that Mario can't pick up a Dust Man but can pick up a Bucketman, and a similar interaction difference is part of the reason why others like Monkikki / Monchee and Dōryī / Tane Pakkun got split. Keeping the enemy merged does save having to pile on some more perpetual foreign language tags, but that can't really be helped now. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:42, 22 December 2017 (EST)
-::I'm reviving this discussion. Five years have passed and there have been some changes such as [[Waste Basket]] getting its own page. Now that there are enough images, I think it's time to split Dustman (or is it Dust Man?), Bucketman, and the MK Arcade GP item. Do we need to put this up for a vote?--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 14:55, December 10, 2022 (EST)
-:::I don't know about the MK Arcade item, but splitting Dustman and Bucketman (into a shared page) should be the obvious course. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:18, December 10, 2022 (EST)
-::::Splitting Bucketman would need a new proposal since an earlier attempt at splitting them failed. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 15:23, December 10, 2022 (EST)
-:::::Well, it needs to be split in order for the Mario Bros. proposal to be enforced. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 08:10, April 03, 2023 (CST)
 == Help. ==
 Does anybody Know Which Levels in Donkey Kong For The Game Boy have The Bins as actually living enemies and Which have The Bins as Just inanimate Objects? [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]
-==Proposal: split Bucketman/Dustman from bin==
-{{settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|10-0|Split}}
-===Split Bucketman/Dustman from bin===
-This page covers a lot of things that really should be split, but i personally feel this is the thing that needs it the most, an enemy that looks like a Bin and a bin are very different things, and pages have been split for less. Mimic enemies are common in videogames and i don't understand why this one specifically does not have a unique page compared to other mimic enemies that are probably in the Mario franchise i am currently unable to think of examples for.
-'''Proposer''': {{User|Biggestman}}<br>
-'''Deadline''': November 8, 2023, 23:59 GMT
-====Support====
-#{{User|Biggestman}} Per proposal
-#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Why this guy got lumped in with his object counterpart is beyond us--maybe his obscurity as a fairly remote enemy? However, [[Blockhopper|this is]] [[Pile Driver Micro-Goomba|nothing new]], and we don't merge Pile Driver Micro-Goombas with [[Mini Goomba]], or uh. Whatever we'd have done to Blockhopper.
-#{{User|Platform}} Per proposal. I also want a bigger split involving other entries like ''Mario Kart Arcade GP''.
-#{{User|Hewer}} Per all, this is a good start to the long overdue clean-up of this page.
-#{{User|Pseudo}} Per all, and timely with the upcoming remake of Mario vs. DK.
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Definitely!
-#{{User|MegaBowser64}} We can do it! Yes we can!!
-#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} YES! DO IT! AFTER THIS WE CAN FINALLY START ENACTING THE MARIO BROS. TALK PAGE PROPOSAL!
-#{{User|Mariuigi Khed}} yes. One is a species the other an item. Yes.
-#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - Thank you.
-====Oppose====
-====Comments====
-I'm inclined to agree since I no longer stand by my merge rationale per above discussion, but - we're about to get a remake in just a few short months, and with it, a definitive name. Why now? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:50, October 25, 2023 (EDT)
-:I guess it is true we are getting a remake but there is not a 100% chance that will come with a name, though i guess that does make sense. If this gets enough support i should probably still wait until the remake to be sure, though maybe i could make it before the remake and move it later {{User:Biggestman/sig}} 01:24, October 27, 2023 (EDT)
-SORRY THIS WENT OVER THE TIME IT WAS MEANT TO TAKE I FORGOT {{User:Biggestman/sig}} 11:36, November 9, 2023 (EST)
-==Name==
-These garbage storage bins have been referred to as "Trash Cans" FOUR times. I recommend moving to Trash Can. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 20:40, February 16, 2024 (EST)
-:American English manual should take priority if a name isn't given ingame, this should be moved immediately. [[User:Starluxe|Starluxe]]
-::I also agree on this, "bin" is a British term for this item and we should prioritize American English if it's available. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 18:38, August 9, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Yeah, move this to trash. I mean... rename the article to trash can. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:53, August 10, 2024 (EDT)