Editing Talk:Tracks (enemy)

== Conjectural name? ==
Same as [[Talk:Astro Goomba|Astro Goomba]]: Why is the title conjectural when there are official names in both Japanese and German (according to the article)? Is there really no official English name? --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 15:36, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

==Prima Names==
I'm logging this here for future reference: this enemy really avoids being named, being called "the creature", "that blue creature", and "an invisible creature" in the SMG1 Prima guide and isn't mentioned at all in the SMG2 Prima guide. Unless this article's gonna be named "Invisible Creature" or something, we're not getting a name anytime soon. {{User:Time Turner/sig}}

==Naming Heirarchy==
{{talk}}
Shouldn't this be Petapeta? I've gone into great detail over why using internal filenames is fundamentally flawed. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:30, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
:It shouldn't have been "Starbag" for the longest time since it's only a wiki translation of "Sternentasche" in German, and though "Petapeta" would have higher priority than that since the earlier foreign name is preferred, the "Petari" label conveniently means that the article doesn't need an another language tag. Development names take precedence over foreign names per policy. Sure, you can say that it's still derived from Japanese instead of English, but that's no different from, say, [[Sushi]] or [[Unagi]]. In addition to the distinctly Japanese design of the enemy making more sense, this name is also written in English letters rather than Japanese characters, and official romanized sources do not require an another language tag when used as article titles (see ''[[Punch Ball Mario Bros.]]'', ''[[Super Mario Bros. Special]]'', and ''[[Wrecking Crew '98]]'' content). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:30, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
::Internal names are definitely an official part of the naming hierarchy. Per LTL. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 10:51, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
:::They should be nowhere near the highest though, since they represent an early vision of the completed version, and plus may contain some sort of development jokes. Remember, there's always the potential some new Blooper variant will have one Japanese name in a guide, but an internal name that translates to "Squid poop" because of some esoteric joke. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:12, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
::::You're speculating about hypotheticals, and that still doesn't change policy. If you want to subvert it, make a proposal or convince an admin. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 15:53, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::Awright, what about how the Boo from the Boo in the Box Mission has the internal name of "Atomic Boo," despite not being particularly large? Or how one unused enemy/boss from the same game was apparently at one point intended to be connected to King Kaliente and the other Octos, despite clearly being a Piranha Plant? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:55, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
::::::It already '''isn't''' anywhere "near the highest" part of the [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|naming hierarchy]], though; at current placement, internal names are basically a last resort for article titles if no other English source works, which is literally the case here. As far as these other examples, the unique Boo is labeled as "<tt>TeresaChief</tt>" in ''Super Mario Galaxy'' and is actually the same object as "<tt>TeresaAtomic</tt>" in ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' (just shrunken in the former and renamed in the latter, again an indication that the developers '''do''' in fact pay attention to what gets permanently written in the game data), and the unused Piranha Plant model is just that: unused. Either way, these are irrelevant. If you believe internal filenames are truly "fundamentally flawed" as a reputable source, take it up with [[MarioWiki talk:Naming|Naming]]. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:38, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::::I think last resort is good, because it's better than conjecture, but I think the definition of "English" is a bit blurry here. Remember "Teresauraus" becomes "Telesauls"....I might take it up with them. Still, unused or not, it shows that some things in development went through some mind-boggling changes....or they decided to name something nonsensically. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:43, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::::::<blockquote>Please note that ''regardless of the source'', the '''official North American name''' takes priority, followed by the '''first international English name''' if no North American name is available, and finally the '''first international non-English name''' if no English name is known.</blockquote>
:::::::::Unless the internal file name is actually written in Japanese characters and we're not showing it for some reason, this is an English version of the name, and it's the only English version of the name we have. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 17:48, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
::::::::::My point, is that their original name was intended to be ペタリ durign the developement (i'm learning Japanese letters), and it was then changed to ペタペタ for the manual and encyclopedia. But since there is no source, and we can't cite the encyclopedia, we can use Petari, at least, for now. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:23, 10 January 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::You mean the guide, not the manual. Perhaps the nuances of internal naming could stand to be more explicit in policy, but either way, Petari is the best usable name in the strict sense. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:36, 11 January 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::I think Doc von Schmeltwick's point is similar to the [[Cheep Cheep (bird)]] thing and the [[Whimp]]. After Googling "Petari" i found out that it means the same thing as "Petapeta". And unlike [[Sushi]] and [[Unagi]], it was not given by an official American/British material. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:17, 25 January 2019 (EST)
::::::::::It's not an "English" version, it's a Romanized version. (Also, note that English isn't technically a Romantic language; it is a Germanic language.) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:29, 25 January 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::Yup! Was the Whimp example i given a similar case? I kinda feel you have a point on it. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:31, 25 January 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::Japanese romanizations simply use the Roman/Latin script and don't necessarily refer to the Romance/Neo-Latin languages; in fact, one of the main modern systems, Hepburn, was specifically designed for English speakers. And as I've said [[Talk:Mini Wanwan#Internal Name|here]], "Whimp" is undoubtedly a "[[Winged Strollin' Stu|Soarin' Stu]]" [[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia#Controversy|situation]], so let's discourage it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:05, 25 January 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::Hmmm... You're right in the sense the nuances of internal naming should be more explicit in policy. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 04:04, 29 January 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::::But imo, it would have way too much options. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:25, 4 February 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::Should i start a proposal about how to handle internal filenames in naming? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 05:13, 11 February 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::::::First, a discussion [[MarioWiki:Naming|here]] would be better. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:42, 11 February 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::::I agree to rename it into Petapeta, (remove the "ri" and replace it with a non-capitalized "peta"), as Petari is not <u>the enemy</u>'s english name. The crew that makes the word DOES matter to determine if it's the english name, romanization, or placeholder. And Petari itself isn't english either. Note how {{User|Time Turner}} has been inactive during a few months. It isn't settled yet. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:00, 28 February 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::::::::An editor not being around lately should have absolutely no bearing on this decision - it would be unfair to exclude others for this reason, especially someone like Time Turner who is a thoughtful contributor who has put plenty of time and effort in this wiki. That said, I do want to know what Alex95 still thinks about it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:21, 28 February 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::::::Yeah, good idea. Also, like i said, it's not an english version, it's a romanized version. These letters are used in multiple languages. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 14:11, 28 February 2019 (EST)

There's a lot of text here, and I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking at anymore. Does Petapeta come from a Japanese manual or guide? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 14:15, 28 February 2019 (EST)
:I think Petapeta comes from the encyclopedia, which is made by Shogakugan and Nintendo, given that it covers most of the platformer games. Petari is another Japanese omonatopeia that means the same thing as Petapeta. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 14:18, 28 February 2019 (EST)
::Petapeta would have been what was in the same guide the artwork came from, ie the SMG2 shogakukan. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:19, 28 February 2019 (EST)
:::I want to add that, if we do change Petari to Petapeta, then it should only be fair that we move [[Garigari]] to Gōrumondo for similar reasons (and because there is another [[Grinder|Garigari]]). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:23, 28 February 2019 (EST)
::::I'll rescind my original statement, then. I'll also agree with Garigari. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 14:26, 28 February 2019 (EST)
:::::Same for Garigari. It's not even an "englishized" name, it is a romanization of a pre-release name. If there is a consensus for it, i'd say that i would be the one to do so. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 14:29, 28 February 2019 (EST)
::::::The logic is similar: due to both names having unambiguous Japanese roots, Petari and Garigari should have clear templates at the top of their articles, and without an internal template, naming priority should consider them to be just as foreign as Petapeta and Gōrumondo, ultimately siding with the guides since internal data is lower priority. Though my personal stance has become more neutral now, but I'll defer to Alex95's judgment. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:49, 28 February 2019 (EST)
:::::::You mean that the internal template should be restored? Well, we should have a consensus first. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 14:53, 28 February 2019 (EST)
::::::::If we do that, then renaming the article may not be necessary, but I think implementation of the internal template was mishandled. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:11, 28 February 2019 (EST)
:::::::::Better to rename the article and let out the template to a consensus before <s>removing the internal filename source for the Beamer enemies and add an another language template because the internal filenames are romanized</s> implimenting it on any article that is named after its internal filename. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 15:13, 28 February 2019 (EST)
::::::::::That's not how you use strikethroughs. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:15, 28 February 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::Boomaster64 said that the Super Mario Encyclopedia name was Starbag, which i didn't know it was taken from the wiki. He replaced each "Petari" word, but he wrote Starbag when saying that it is the internal filename. (though ulikely) Although this page has been renamed around 2017, the encyclopedia still uses Starbag. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 01:27, 1 March 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::"Starbag" has a [https://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=40406.msg2032507#msg2032507 licensing conflict] like many other things in ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' since "Strollin' Stu" was far from the only example. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:30, 1 March 2019 (EST)
@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 ==Naming Heirarchy==
+{{talk}}
 Shouldn't this be Petapeta? I've gone into great detail over why using internal filenames is fundamentally flawed. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:30, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
 :It shouldn't have been "Starbag" for the longest time since it's only a wiki translation of "Sternentasche" in German, and though "Petapeta" would have higher priority than that since the earlier foreign name is preferred, the "Petari" label conveniently means that the article doesn't need an another language tag. Development names take precedence over foreign names per policy. Sure, you can say that it's still derived from Japanese instead of English, but that's no different from, say, [[Sushi]] or [[Unagi]]. In addition to the distinctly Japanese design of the enemy making more sense, this name is also written in English letters rather than Japanese characters, and official romanized sources do not require an another language tag when used as article titles (see ''[[Punch Ball Mario Bros.]]'', ''[[Super Mario Bros. Special]]'', and ''[[Wrecking Crew '98]]'' content). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:30, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
@@ Line 42: / Line 43: @@
 ::::::::::That's not how you use strikethroughs. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:15, 28 February 2019 (EST)
 :::::::::::Boomaster64 said that the Super Mario Encyclopedia name was Starbag, which i didn't know it was taken from the wiki. He replaced each "Petari" word, but he wrote Starbag when saying that it is the internal filename. (though ulikely) Although this page has been renamed around 2017, the encyclopedia still uses Starbag. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 01:27, 1 March 2019 (EST)
-::::::::::::"Starbag" has a [https://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=40406.msg2032507#msg2032507 licensing conflict] like many other things in ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' since "Soarin' Stu" was far from the only example. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:30, 1 March 2019 (EST)
+::::::::::::"Starbag" has a [https://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=40406.msg2032507#msg2032507 licensing conflict] like many other things in ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' since "Strollin' Stu" was far from the only example. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:30, 1 March 2019 (EST)
-:::::::::::::Regarding new names, i've been looking for them all on fan-sites, and found nothing. Possibly Zack Davidson's courtesy on making new names by himself. Anyways, should we move this to Petapeta given the current major agreement, or should we wait? If so, i'll do it. But if not, we'll have to wait more given that the only objection left now is Time Turner, and he is inactive. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 07:12, 1 March 2019 (EST)
-::::::::::::::I will do it since I am responsible for the move from the conjectural title in the first place, but <big>[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|please]]</big> stop courting English Encyclopedia. <small>[[User:LinkTheLefty/List of Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia mistakes and names from the Super Mario Wiki|Zack and courtesy do not belong in the same sentence.]]</small> [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:20, 1 March 2019 (EST)
-:Now that the things are settled, i have one unrelated thing to do for now. Can i go ahead to make a Roto-Disc proposal? It is to prevent another translation of it (if there will ever be) to use information from us. Let's ignore the current encyclopedia and make a Roto-Disc proposal. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 12:37, 1 March 2019 (EST)
-::Kaitensuru Honō probably doesn't need a proposal to split. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:42, 1 March 2019 (EST)
-:::You mean that i can go ahead and split it, or a consensus? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 12:45, 1 March 2019 (EST)
-::::I think that can just go ahead. It's about as connected to Roto-Disc as it is Satellite. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:46, 1 March 2019 (EST)