Editing Talk:Toad

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== Merge Toad to Toad (Species) ==
From the article: '''Toad also appeared in Super Mario 64/DS, giving Mario & company tips for findig secret stages, like the one in the mirror room and sometimes giving stars too.'''
{{Settled TPP}}
:Are the Toads in Super Mario 64 ''the'' Toad. I was under the impression that they were all generic Toads working in the castle. --[[User:Son of Suns|Son of Suns]] 21:20, 21 June 2006 (EDT)
{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-13|do not merge}}
::Especially since two toads appear at the end beside Peach, you have a point. -[[User:Wayoshi|Wayoshi]] 21:26, 21 June 2006 (EDT)
This has gone on for far too long. All this talk about "this toad is the Toad" "no this toad is the Toad" has to stop. Enough is enough! Nintendo isn't making it easier by changing their story all the time on whether or not there is a singular Toad. I think the safest thing to do is exactly what my proposal says. We need to merge this article to the article for the species, and if there's anything in the article about one of the toads that's often confused to be Toad, we can move that information there.
::And I think in the second floor hallway there are two Toads...if you move the camera, you can see both of them on the screen. --[[User:Son of Suns|Son of Suns]] 21:34, 21 June 2006 (EDT)


If this proposal passes, I will make similar proposals for Yoshi, Birdo, and Kamek (although I don't really know about Kamek since the English for the species is Magikoopa).
Yes you can.....[[User:HK-47|<font size="4">H</font><font size="1">K</font>]]


'''Proposer''': {{User|Magikrazy}}<br>
I don't think that it should assume that one of the Toads is the Toad the article is about in the Super Mario 64/DS section. It sounds like a POV phrase to me. [[User:Toadette 4evur|Toadette 4evur]] 20:40, 30 January 2008 (EST)
'''Deadline''': December 20, 2014, 23:59 GMT.


===No Toad, merge with species===
==Soccer Look==
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Well this is a surprise, someone actually did what I would have done. Nevertheless, I might as well be the only other person to support this. From what I've seen, the majority of these "the" Toad appearances and bios are the result of this Wiki's intepretation. What exactly gives "the" Toad his distinct persona again? His name? Interchangable with other Toads. His personality? Not much different from generic Toads. The use of pronoun "he"? Besides gender (note: Toads are sexless, not genderless) and specifics, that's applicable to generic Toads. The bios? When generic enemies have their own bios which treat them as their own characters, this point is moot. The appearance? Okay, this might have some merit, but that's only depending on the game. I don't count games where multiple Toads with the standard look appear, and I'm still skeptical about games where only one Toad with the standard look is playable, because in Mario games, the standard look gets usually priority, expections including ''3D World'' and ''Sticker Star''. As I said in the deleted Toad related proposal, I consider the Japanese Mario fans lucky, because they aren't bothered to argue about which Toad is "the" Toad, because to them it seems clear the generic Toads don't have much going for them.
Could someone that has [[Super Mario Strikers]] please put a picture up of [[Toad]] in it.
#{{User|Aokage}} The "3D World Blue Toad = ''the'' Toad" decision is a prime example of how people are just labeling whichever Toad they want as ''the'' Toad. Had they known Captain Toad was going to get a bigger role in his own game, they probably would've wanted him to be ''the'' Toad instead. It's clear that Nintendo - especially NoJ - doesn't really have this concept of "Toad the Toad".
:Only [[Toads]] (the species) appear in Super Mario Strikers, as sidekicks. Toad does not appear. [[User:Cobold|Cobold]] 09:52, 10 February 2007 (EST)


===There is a Toad, keep===
==Is Toad princess Peach's brother?==
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Though the issue is very muddled, this is a very radical decision and will affect a ton of articles on the wiki. Nevertheless, there are countless sources where Toad is portrayed as his own character. The Super Mario Bros. Super Show is one of them, as well as numerous character bios. I'm not going to much detail about this but there is indeed a Toad that exists and this route is just the easiest route that will simply cause more controversy than there already is.
I thought Toad was peach's brother in the super mario bros super show. This could be truth, because in the multiplayer mode of mario party 5 a special group name appears if two players cooperate. Peach and Toad get the group name "ROYAL FAMILY"!!!  and peach has a toad-like grandma in Mario RPG (snes). shocking??? {{unsigned|Justwriting}}
#{{User|Time Turner}} Regardless of who's who, there's still clearly is an individual Toad that has appeared throughout the games: Super Mario Bros. 2, Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario 64 and its remake, Wario's Woods, the cartoons, the comics, all of the spin-offs, and probably some other stuff... Vaporizing all of that individuality because of some tussling between newer games is an extreme absolute that would cause so much more of a mess than it's worth.
#{{User|Mario}} I'm not comfortable with this change. As opposers said, Toad does have his own identity, and I'd rather not sacrifice individuality just because he looks the same. We have a good compromise called the "Possible appearances", which should do its job at this confusion. I don't see any problem with what we're working with, and I feel that there's no need to change it.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per all. I haven't been following the Blue Toad/Captain Toad debacle too closely, but it wouldn't change Toad's history.
#{{User|Toadbrigade5}} There is a Toad species, and a Toad. This has been confirmed in every game. We are not to change the facts of a game. And shame you for even trying to. We might merge Mario and Human if we do this. Thats like merging you and user. Seriously, this is STUPID. And per all.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per Baby Luigi, Time Turner and Mario. The non-game media are just as relevant as the games, and both they and earlier games have singular Toad characters. Nowadays we also have Captain Toad and a Blue Toad filling the roles that ''the'' Toad had before: it confuses the issue, but it doesn't invalidate the old appearances, and the best thing to do with the mess is to cover ''everything'' with as little judgment calls as possible using the Possible Appearances section and three separate pages for the three possible "personas" Nintendo picks from. Merging ''the'' Toad's character page would be going in the complete opposite direction if we want to be thorough and transparent.
#{{User|3D Player 2004}} Per Walkazo.
#{{User|Ghost Jam}} Per Walkazo.
#{{User|Sonic98}} Per all.
#{{User|Madz the Penguin}} There is "the Toad". It's confirmed in Mario Kart games, Mario Party games, Mario shows, etc. He might be hard to find, but he's there. Also, if we merge Toad and his species, then we may have tons of ridiculous debates like, "should we merge [[Toadette]] with Toad species? Toad was merged, and there are tons of Toadettes out there!".
#{{User|BabyLuigi64}} We know there is "the" Toad because we see him (it?) enough, and we know when we see "the" Toad because there is something to distinguishing him from other red-spot-capped Toads, and that is his blue vest. We know he's not just another random Toad. Per the above.
#{{User|Magikrazy}} Ok, so I was incorrect. I have since realized that Toad's Japanese name is different from the other toads. Knowing this, I believe that the toad with the blue mushroom cap and vest is Toad, and Captain Toad is not.
#{{User|Paper Iggy Koopa}} Per All, this article will become improperly grammimatical due to the fact saying "Toad is toad" every 5 seconds of reading


===Comments===
.... When you pair-up Luigi and Yoshi in Mario Party 5, it calls them the Green Bros., that doesn't mean there family. Also, please use the forum for comments like that. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]
I'll have more to say later when I can get to a computer. All that I'll say for now is that the cartoons, comics, etc are not canon and shouldn't count. Even if they did, nowhere is it mentioned that the toad in one episode or issue is the same in the others. Is it because they have the same look and voice? A lot of the birds by my house look and sound the same, but that doesn't mean they're all one bird. As for the games, some of them have a lone toad in them, but it never states that all these are the same toad. The fact they're all referred to as Toad shows that they're all just generic toads and should be treated as such. {{User|Magikrazy}}
:I'm watching the show, but I haven't come across evidence for that yet.  I think he's just her hired protector who became a close friend in that show.  He's very dedicated, though. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 15:05, 29 December 2007 (EST)
:First of all, canonicity anywhere near the Mario series is [[MarioWiki:Canonicity|completely irrelevant]] and generally not a good practice, but besides that, the Toad that appears in all of these mediums are never referred to as '''a''' Toad (which would lead to the thought process that the Toads are merely generic), only simply as '''Toad''', heavily implying, if not outright confirming, that these Toads are all one and the same. {{User:Time Turner/sig}}
 
::''"A lot of the birds by my house look and sound the same, but that doesn't mean they're all one bird."''  
Sir Grodus is right! "Royal Family" doesn't mean their brothers and sisters! They'd call it "Royal Family" 'cause Toad is protecting Princess Toadstool and also the Mushroom Kingdom! And Toad always comes with Peach when Peach decides if she can go with Mario and Luigi! Nothing means their brothers and sisters!!!--[[User:Smarty-jamjam|Smarty-jamjam]] 21:25, 6 May 2009 (EDT)
::Um, you're not getting it. We're not arguing that all Toads are clones of Toad himself. Toad, however, is indistinguishable from every other Toad, which makes it confusing, but he still has his own identity.
 
::A better analogy is this: there are a lot of crows around my house. They all look the same, but one recognizes me when I leave out peanuts in the yard, and is distinguishable because the bird always comes here at the same time of the day. But really, who knows if it's a pair of clever crows instead? But the crow is still a notable individual that can be confused with her peers, hence why we have an article on Toad. {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:50, 6 December 2014 (EST)
==SMS==
In [[Super Mario Sunshine]], the instruction book labels the red-capped Toad as "Toad" shuold this be mentioned. - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]] 18:05, 8 March 2007 (EST)
 
Hello? - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]] 18:57, 8 March 2007 (EST)
 
Indeed it does. Maybe it is THE Toad, but I'm not 100% sure.{{User:Knife/sig}} 20:25, 9 March 2007 (EST)
 
Well, I almost am. The Toad looks like him, and is called him. I see no need for further evidence. - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
:The Toad labelled as "Toad" in the Sunshine Manual has a red mushroom cap and red clothing, while regularly Toad wears blue. The Toads in Sunshine behave really childish  (talk to them in the first scene of the game), so I think it is a mistake in the manual. - [[User:Cobold|Cobold]]
 
I always thought Toad WAS chiildish. - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
Toad is the label for all the Toads. It doesn't mean it's the Toad. The manual even says in the story, "Mario, Peach, and an entourage of Toads have come to Isle Delfino". It doesn't say Toad came, Toads came. Also note that it labels the Pianta and the Noki "Pianta" and "Noki". It says in in the singular, even though there is more than one of each. The "Toad" label just means a Toad. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
:Alot of Toads are named Toad. [[User:Toadette 4evur|Toadette 4evur]] 20:44, 30 January 2008 (EST)
 
I just noticed something. In the intro of Mario Superstar Baseball, the same red Toad congratulates Mario along with Peach, Daisy, and Yoshi on his victory against Wario. -- [[User: Klaus Kratchet|Klaus Kratchet]]
 
About the Pianta and Noki thing, in the manual's description of them it says "Isle Delfino Residents" in the plural form, but describes Toad as "Peach's attendant" in the singular form, so it isn't for the whole group, but that one Toad. I believe it is him. Like stated above, Toad has a red vest in Mario Superstar Baseball.
--[[User:Toadster 04|Toadster 04]] 22:01, 1 May 2008 (EDT)
:Definately.  Instruction booklets count as proof of course, so he was definately in Sunshine.  Baseball might be a bit of a stretch, but I would like to include at least a reference to that in the article... {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 23:01, 1 May 2008 (EDT)
 
==Mushroom Retainer==
According to the [[Mushroom Retainer]] article, SMRPG proves that Toad is one of the Mushroom Retainers. This would prove that he WAS in SMB and LL, If anyone has the game and can prove the articles statement, please tell me. I'm trying to end all these accursed continuity problems.Plllleeeeaseee tell me soon. - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
hello? - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
I always thought the Toad rescued before Princess Toadstool in Super Mario Bros. was Toad, but I dunno. The Toad first met in Luigi's Mansion is Toad, I'm practically sure of it. Yes, he is one of the eight Mushroom Retainers in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]
 
The Mushroom retainers could change, meaning Toad got a different Toad's position. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
 
Yes, but THAT seems even more far-fetched than saying he is a Mushroom Retainer. - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
:How so? Toad wasn't a character until Super Mario Bros. 2 (USA). -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
 
Hmmmm..... well, since there no proof, I'll put it in the generic appearences section. Also SoS, most continunuity problems are now solved; only Luigi's Mansion left. - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
To say that he could have changed is very far fetched, and I know this discussion is old and probably not applicable, but I want to get this out in case the issue comes up again.  We have no reason to believe that except what we may assume based on Earth positions of government.  I know that some people do not view it as canon, but the Super Show gave Toad the role of the Princess's protector immeadiately following her rescue in Super Mario Bros.  In other words, he would have been her protector before Bowser's invasion.  Regardless of your opinion however, we can't say that just because Toad wasn't a character until SMB2 that he wouldn't be in SMB1.  There are plenty of examples of retcon in the Mario series. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 22:38, 30 January 2008 (EST)
:Okay, it's an "alternate" canon source, as defined by some guy on the Wiki some time ago, but it's ''[[The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!]]'' episode "Trojan Koopa." After failing at saving Peach, Toad says, "Some Mushroom Retainer I turned out to be... I was so close!  I couldn't save her..." So... he was a Mushroom Retainer then, during the events of ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'' only if you consider the show and the games to be part of the same continuity.  Great... {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 22:02, 5 March 2008 (EST)
look here everybody it confirms that the Toad indeed does not appear until Super Mario Bros. 2 http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/Q3TJhfvkUiLDeT6Brt3L2AyaWRCF0djg [[User:A Link to the Present|A Link to the Present]] 23:47, 17 February 2011 (EST)
 
There are other sources that state he appeared in Super Mario Bros. as well like the Smash trophies and spin-off game profiles. Additionally, the Japanese info for Wario's Woods never makes reference to what game Toad originated from. [[User:Propeller Toad|Propeller Toad]]
 
==Images==
I think there is enough Images, respond to support or oppose. [[User:YoshiFan|YoshiFan]]
 
All right, four people in support,(including me), I'm removing the Template! {{User:YoshiFan/sig}}
 
Support.--[[User:Luigifan14|Luigifan14]] 18:33, 2 April 2007 (EDT)
 
'''Support''' -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]
 
'''Support'''. --{{User:Yoshi626/sig}} 00:06, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
 
'''Support'''. --{{User:YoshiFan/sig}} [[User:YoshiFan|YoshiFan]] 15:27, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
 
Support--[[User:Smarty-jamjam|Smarty-jamjam]] 21:28, 6 May 2009 (EDT)
 
==First Quote==
I don't get why you oppose the SMB quote, Ultimatetoad. That's classic. {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 17:20, 29 March 2007 (EDT)
 
:I think it's because Toad never said it. Generic Mushroom Retainers did. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
 
Yeah... I like the quote....it's my sig..... but it's not Toad's. - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
I kinda like the SMRPG quote. Why was it removed? - [[User:Cobold|Cobold]]
 
==Is Toad in Super Mario Sunshine?==
I have the manual, and it says that the red toad is Peach's attendant.
[[User:Klaus Kratchet|Klaus Kratchet]]
 
:All the Toads are her attendants. See the previous SMS section. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
 
==Is Toad in Mario Pinball Land?==
Since there are two pictures of him at the bottom, could somebody write about it in the biography section? I never played it or know anybody who has it.
 
Yeah, he's in it. He's in the movie at the beginning, and he runs the shops. But I'm not up to writing sections yet, and I don't have enough time these days. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}}
 
==SPM==
Is it Toad in SPM or just a generic Toad? I just want to be clear on this.... - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
Luigi refers to him as Toad, so yes. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]
 
Cool. Now I am more willing to let one other section go if needed.... - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
==Follow Toad==
I'm beggining to think this is just Toad, is he actually refered to as "Follow Toad" or anything else? I haven't played the game in a while. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]
 
Well, I don't have the game, but It looks like it to me. Will someone who has the game please answer? - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
:I have the game, and I'm near-positive he's never named. Considering that he's so close to Toadette and everything, and that he looks just like Toad, I think it's meant to be assumed that he ''is'' plain ol' Toad. --[[User:YellowYoshi398|YellowYoshi398]] 10:10, 2 April 2007 (EDT)
 
Sooo... merge? - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
:Yeah. He's pretty much definitely Toad. {{user:yellowYoshi398/sig}}
 
I don't think he's THE Toad, just a generic Toad. Don't hate me if I'm wrong, but there's no source confirming that the Follow Toad is THE Toad. Considering his role is very similiar to the Toad in Mario Party 2, I'm not sure. If the Toad in MP2 was THE Toad, it may prove that this Toad is THE Toad. Don't know where the name Follow Toad popped up either. [[User:Confused|Confused]]
 
:To my knowledge, it doesn't say "Follow Toad" anywhere in the game, so I added the conjecture template. I do think that since they're so similar in their actions and role in the game, this Toad could be THE Toad. {{User:Monty Mole/sig}} 23:52, 6 April 2007 (EDT)
 
Sooooo.... a vote? - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
I think it's Toad. {{User:Plumber/sig}}
 
===Vote===
====Support Merge====
#{{User:Plumber/sig}}
# -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]
#{{User:Aipom/sig}}
#<br>[[User:Confused|<span style="color:Red;">I</span>]] [[User talk:Confused|<span style="color:Blue;">am</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Confused|<span style="color:Green;">Confused</span>]] 16:33, 8 April 2007 (EDT)
# {{User:Great Gonzo/sig}}
# {{user:yellowYoshi398/sig}}
#[[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
#{{User:Maxlover2/sig|O|K|?}}
#[[User: Klaus Krathcet|Klaus Kratchet]]
#[[User:Stumpers|Stumpers]]
#[[User:Booster|Booster]]
#[[User:Smarty-jamjam]] 21:36, 6 May 2009 (EDT)
 
====Oppose Merge====
 
====Comments====
He's never reffered to as "Follow Toad", he looks like Toad, theres nothing contradicting the fact that he's probably just Toad, who has hosted previous Mario Parties. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]
 
Oh, the way the article worded it, it made him sound like an important host.--{{User:Aipom/sig}}--
 
Like Toad.
{{unsigned|Maxlover2}}
 
Okay this vote is unopposed should someone merge it? [[User:Great Gonzo|Great Gonzo]]
 
OK, I did. {{User:Plumber/sig}}
 
==Toad's Relationships To Other Characters==
Something interesting I've noticed is that the team names in Mario Party 6 are used as evidence for character relationships for other character pairings, but interestingly, mentions of such evidence for Toad's (and Yoshi's, coincidentally) relationships aren't mentioned. Is there some reason that I'm not getting for this exclusion, or is it just that no one has added it yet? [[User:Dinosaur bob|Dinosaur bob]] 12:09, 14 May 2007 (EDT)
 
No ones added it yet..... I don't have Mario Party 6, or I would have... - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
==Hotel Mario==
I've been thinking about adding [[Hotel Mario]] information in the biography section, but I'm not too sure if the Toad that appear in that game is '''THE''' Toad or simply a generic ones. What are your ideas, guys?
[[User:Gofer|Gofer]]
 
I don't know- never played the game! Mostly what I came in here to comment on was that I can't believe there was no mention of how Super Mario Bros. 2 portrays the shroom-dude as stronger than Mario or Luigi, judging by how quickly he can pull things out of the ground, before I just added it!{{User:Dinosaur bob/sig}} 20:40, 1 July 2007 (EDT)
 
Yeah, I saw footage, thats not Toad, that not even a Mushroom Person, its just an oddly named 1-Up. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]
:Really? So, he msut still count since he he is named Toad in the "inclosed instruction book."... do it?
[[User:Gofer|Gofer]]
 
::I think in the interest of making things less confusing, we should stick with what's recognizable instead. We're not going to make a new page called "Skeleton Koopa," we'll just consider it Dry Bones. We have no idea what a Mini Ninji is, so let's list it in the Ninji section. Truth is, a lot of the things were misnamed in the enclosed instruction book... Banzai Bill should have been Bullet Bill. The only remotely new enemy character (outside of a Goomba and Koopa Troopa in wardrobe) is Pat the Bat, which basically functions like a Swooper anyway. There's an excellent in-depth Hotel Mario review here, before it became a YouTube icon: http://www.goodtimeretrocafe.com/cdi/hmario.html [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] 23:11, 26 April 2010 (EDT)
 
==The SM64 conundrum==
Yes, I'm bringing this up again. In SM64DS, The Toads are a species (2 appear at once.) but in SM64, only one appears at one time. The instruction book says that Toad and Princess Peach were missing, but maybe he just meant he couldnt see Toad right away... like, when he moved to the left and searched along the wall, he found him? Thoughts? - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
They're still a species in SM64, since two appear aside Princess Peach at the end.{{User:Knife/sig}} 16:19, 21 July 2007 (EDT)
 
Ummm.... so what should I put in that section? - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
In both games Toads are species. However, the main Toad was the one found near the door to the castle (which is probably the first Toad you'll see). However, the main Toad's role in the game is somewhat unimportant since all he does is tell Mario of Peach's kidnapping (doesn't even give Mario a free Power Star like the other Toads). Although I'm not sure about this part, Toad MAY have been standing alongside Peach at the end. Hopefully, that covers your question.{{User:Knife/sig}} 14:04, 25 July 2007 (EDT)
 
O.k..... - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]
 
Is there any confirmation on this? There is no source here. [[User:Toadster_04|Toadster_04]]
 
Toad is the first toad mario meets. It says so in the manuel of mario 64 ds as it says "According to Toad,...". I don't see it saying "a toad" so it can be said that it is toad. Also in the remake, Toad has more personality and knows the characters like being scared of wario and thinking he will leave them.
[[User:Pichufan93]]


"I'll have more to say later when I can get to a computer. All that I'll say for now is that the cartoons, comics, etc are not canon and shouldn't count. "
==Magician?==
So... is there any particular reason Toad is in the "Magicians" category? I can't remember him ever using anything that could be called "magic"--a whole lot of throwing stuff and giving out items, but no magic.  The descriptions of his abilities in the article don't seem to mention magic either. So is there some obscure thing I'm missing, or should Toad be taken out of that category? [[User:Wario'sFalconPAUNCH!|Wario&#39;sFalconPAUNCH!]] 23:12, 16 September 2007 (EDT)
:In the ''[[The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3]]'', Toad used a Magic Wand. He was not very good at it, but he still managed to use the magic. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
::Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that one up. [[User:Wario'sFalconPAUNCH!|Wario&#39;sFalconPAUNCH!]] 00:00, 17 September 2007 (EDT)


Even if we accept that premise, the wiki still covers characters for the cartoon/comics/movie and thus Toad would '''still''' warrant a page because he's clearly treated as an individual character in those. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 17:34, 6 December 2014 (EST)
==Apperance in Mario Galaxy==
Prevoucly on the article it had said that toad was in galaxy but it has been taken down how ever one of the guards was toad I beileve and there should be a mention of him I dont know but this should be brought up [[User:Partytoad|Partytoad]]
:People! Just because a Toad has red color doesn't mean it's the Toad in the article. The "Toad" the article is about appears in the intro, that's it. I think the section should be removed. [[User:Toadette 4evur|Toadette 4evur]] 17:08, 29 January 2008 (EST)


@Toadbrigade: I suggest you leave out "this is stupid" remarks since Magikrazy does have a logical reason for attempting to merge the page. Merging "Mario and Human" is a very poor analogy to this as Mario is clearly his own identity while Toad is something far more ambigious. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 19:21, 6 December 2014 (EST)
So in this article you can't talk about other Toads? My bad. I just thought it would be interesting for other people to know that there are Toads in Super Mario Galaxy. I don't see why remove the article. [[User:Lules|Lules]]
:Sorry, I was mad. This is kinda sabotaging my favorite character, but I'm not changing it. Also, DOES he have a logical reason? I seriously doubt it (No offense intended). My examples suck I understand, but still. [[User:Toadbrigade5|Toadbrigade5]] ([[User talk:Toadbrigade5|talk]]) 21:31, 6 December 2014 (EST)
:Well, they're mentioned in the [[Toad (species)]] article for one. [[User:Toadette 4evur|Toadette 4evur]] 21:34, 29 January 2008 (EST)
::As I have said, yes, his reason is logical, even though it is highly flawed. Toad being his own character is a very ambiguous issue that Nintendo is still pretty foggy about, hence why we still have debates about Blue Toad in Super Mario 3D World being Toad and what not. Just as [[Koopa Troopa]] doesn't have its own character article and neither does Lakitu, Toad can fall under their scope in not receiving his own article. The problem with Magikrazy's logic, as we all had stated, is that Toad is most certainly established in some games as his own character, whereas Koopa Troopa and Lakitu are not compared to Toad. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 21:40, 6 December 2014 (EST)


Supporters seem to think that Japanese games never made it clear there was an individual Toad, but there already was a singular "Kinopio" character in at least [http://blogs.c.yimg.jp/res/blog-35-81/konaginn284/folder/903953/66/11670966/img_5?1214873605 ''Super Mario RPG''] and the [http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Toadette-I-Think-508x375.png ''Super Mario Bros.'' anime] (and perhaps other spinoff examples). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:39, 7 December 2014 (EST)
==...==
O.kay, Son of Sons, Pokemon DP, you have removed useful info. Sure, the whole Toad/Toadette thing is kind of iffy, but it's still obvious that they have SOME kind of relationship. It's..... how should I say this... important speculation. And DP, sure that list of where Toad may have been was speculative, I realize that now, but is it not still true that Toad's name may be confused with that of the species? Did you really have to remove the whole section? - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]


Cartoons and comics are considered canon because Mario is a very different franchise. It's not like the Legend of Zelda where it has a very clear timeline where non-canon things (like Hyrule Warriors, Faces of Evil, and Wands of Gamelon) aren't there. Mario's timeline is very vague, so it's safe to say everything Mario, even Hotel Mario, is canon, except for fanmade works on Fanfiction or other websites like that. [[User:Madz the Penguin|Madz the Penguin]] ([[User talk:Madz the Penguin|talk]]) 12:08, 7 December 2014 (EST)
==SMS official art==
I know there's official art of Toad from Super Mario Sunshine, but it's not on this site. It's on www.themushroomkingdom.net. We should upload it. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}}


Comment spree~
I'm quite sure Toad isn't actually in Super Mario Sunshine and that its all just generic Toads. -- [[User:Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]] 21:11, 10 February 2008 (EST)
*'''@Baby Luigi:''' If establishing a generic member as "the" member means single pronouns and whatnot, then by all means [http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_instruction_booklets/Super_Mario_Bros-NES.pdf most] [http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_instruction_booklets/Super_Mario_Bros_2-NES.pdf of] [http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_instruction_booklets/smb3_nes_manual.pdf enemies] [http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_instruction_booklets/super_mario_world-snes.pdf listed] in these manuals should get singular character treatment. It's not just old manuals, as [[List_of_Koopa_Troopa_profiles_and_statistics#Mario_Party_9|some]] [[List_of_Dry_Bones_profiles_and_statistics#Mario_Kart_DS|of]] [[List_of_Shy_Guy_profiles_and_statistics#Mario_Kart_8|the]] playable characters have bios which give them "the" character treatment, yet we don't give them their "the" character pages like "the" Toad because... why?
:I'd agree with you, except that I can't logically deny that Peach would want her longtime friend Toad to come with her. In terms of official confirmation, though, I got nada. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 21:54, 10 February 2008 (EST)
*'''@Time Turner:''' So are Toads in ''SM3DW'' Toad Houses simply called Toads, [http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Wii-U/SUPER-MARIO-3D-WORLD-765385.html both on official European site] and [http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/718915-super-mario-3d-world/69189908 in the soundtrack description].
*'''@Mario:''' A crow with unique demeanor is more comparable to Toadette or Toadsworth rather than "the" Toad behavior wise, because they are more fleshed out in that department. Besides, is the behavior the result of special treatment? It can be said that Toadette and Toadsworth got special treatment for their designs, but "the" Toad, said to be distinguished from other generic Toads, is still very generic with no notable differences. He's practically replacable to the point of nothing of value being lost if a Toad posing as "the" Toad was actually there.
::I don't know. I think it's Toad, becuase he's listed in the game booklet as "Toad" and as "Peach's attendant". We should at least say in the article that there was a red Toad that might be Toad. Anyway, whether it's Toad or just some red Toad, there's game art of him right [http://www.themushroomkingdom.net/images/sms/sms_toad.jpg here]. And the site should have all official art from the Mario series. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}}
*'''@LinkTheLefty:''' What exactly are these pics supposed to prove, especially the second one? Just because a Kinopio is called "Kinopio" it doesn't make him "the" Kinopio. And what makes one of those anime Kinopios "the" Kinopio? Her prominence over the others? Or her mere presence? Yes, I'm calling that Kinopio "her", because [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=parHn9LDQBU#t=165 that's what she is there.]
:::Hold up: the manual refers to him as Toad?  That would cinch it.  I'll check it out and report back. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 00:53, 1 March 2008 (EST)
::::Oh, here's a link.  You'll find it on page 9. [http://jarcas.dreamhosters.com/rdocs/Super_Mario_Sunshine_-_Manual_-_GC.pdf Click here for the whole manual.] For those who trust me, Peach, Toadsworth, and Toad are lined up with a discription next to each.  The Toad in CrystalYoshi's artwork is labeled Toad where Peach and Toadsworth are labeled their names.  In other words, it's presented as a name.  However, it should also be noted that Pianta and Noki are listed as such as well.  Really, you all need to look at the document. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 00:57, 1 March 2008 (EST)
:::::Well the picture is on the gamehiker wiki, right [http://www.gamehiker.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=79&pos=43 here]. so maybe I'll uplaoad it sometime. If you don't want me to put it on this page, maybe I'll put it on the Toad (species) page. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}}


That's all folks. -[[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|Talk]]) ([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 18:59, 7 December 2014 (EST)
==Toad... as an item?==
Is Toad supposed to be an item? If so, how? {{User:RAP/sig}} [[Special:Contributions/RAP|This entry will not be added into the list unless some explaination is discussed. ;)]]


@'''SmokedChili:''' The first picture proves that Kinopio is treated in ''Super Mario RPG'' in the same way that Toad is treated in our version - as a single recurring character. His dialog box uniquely identifies him even among a small crowd, and doesn't apply to any other generic Toads that show up (also noted when he's not in the castle). In addition, his species is unnamed in that particular appearance, so at least as far as that game's story is concerned, there is only one Toad/Kinopio. As for the anime film, that retainer says his/her/its name is Kinopio, and (if memory serves) the other members of the species are called mushroom people by the sage character. You might consider these artistic licenses, but it is what it is. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:16, 7 December 2014 (EST)
:I don't remember Toad as an item, unless Peach's B move in Melee counts. http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>&middot;</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif
:So if some generic Toad is called "Toad", that's automatic evidence for "the" Toad? And if キノコー族 "Mushroom People" is used of them, then there has to be the specific キノピオ Kinopio? I find that questionable. キノコー族 refers to the entirety of Toads, which includes the generic Toads, Toadette, Toadsworth etc. Invidual generic Toads are still called キノピオ, which makes it more likely that there are multiple unspecific Toads than "the" Toad somewhere. Check the Japanese ''Mario 3'' manual for example. In it, Kinopio is said to wish good luck to the Mario Bros. along with Peach, yet there are multiple キノピオの家 Kinopio Houses found in the game. So where is "the" Kinopio then? Related to that, in ''3D World'', we have at least two Kinopios: the playable one, and one in Kinopio House going by [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9Abi_manZjc/Uv1sdYS7NYI/AAAAAAAAWLU/Uvg1eOD5t_0/s1600/Booklet+07-08.jpg this]. If the color change is justified, then either could "the" Kinopio, or not. And considering more and more evidence points to Captain Kinopio being "the" Kinopio, conflicting with ''3D World'' Kinopio being him, it could be said that "the" Kinopio's status in ''3D World'' is indefinite. -[[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|Talk]]) ([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 09:13, 8 December 2014 (EST)
::Hotel Mario. Typo in the manuel. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 00:52, 1 March 2008 (EST)
::You're looking at the series as a whole; I'm looking at specific instances and thinking, "what does that particular story consider these characters?" It's fairly obvious that the writers of ''Super Mario RPG'' deliberately interpreted Toad/Kinopio as a name for one character. Like I stated as my stance, new information doesn't outright rewrite history - if the creators want to make certain things their "current story", it is so, but it doesn't completely replace the old one. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:42, 8 December 2014 (EST)


@'''Magikrazy''', you weren't incorrect. Toads, excluding the the few named ones such as Toadette and Toadsworth, are all known as Kinopios in Japan. [[User:Aokage|Aokage]] ([[User talk:Aokage|talk]]) 10:14, 8 December 2014 (EST)
==Galaxy and Sunshine==
How do we know the red toad in Galaxy and Sunshine isn't THE Toad? I got the impression that the whole reason they gave the Toads different colors was to distinguish the lesser toads from The Main Toad, sorta like how it was with Yoshi. - Buddy Chist


@'''LinkTheLefty:''' Of course new info doesn't outright rewrite history, but it doesn't take out the fact that generic Toads' inviduality among each other hasn't been that clear since day one. ''Super Mario RPG'' may be an expection, but expections shouldn't warrant their own pages for the sake of clarification. Like the [[Flopsy Fish]] article. It's redundant in the presence of the [[Cheep Cheep]] article, which already acknowledges that "Flopsy Fish" is just an alternative name. Likewise, Toad (species) article can mention in case of merging that there is one Toad who is called "Toad" in ''Super Mario RPG''. It wouldn't be that different from how the Cheep Cheep deals with Flopsy Fish, and doesn't downright rewrite history. -[[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|Talk]]) ([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 11:36, 8 December 2014 (EST)
:Well we have no proof they '''are''' THE Toad. So, until we're sure, we just leave that out. http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>&middot;</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif


== Hebrew name ==
But the game Galaxy did give the red one a particular amount of focus and prominance that seems to imply that it's Toad. - Buddy Christ


In the Hebrew dub of TSMBSS, he is called פטריון (Pitrion). [[User:RaguRando|RaguRando]] ([[User talk:RaguRando|talk]]) 14:30, 13 September 2015 (EDT)
::Toad himself typically wears a blue vest. The Sunshine and Galaxy Red Toads wear red vests. Yes, the Red one is the Toad Brigade leader, but it doesn't prove that he's THE Toad. -- [[User: Booster|Booster]]
:Does it mean anything in particular, or is it a common Hebrew name? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 14:42, 13 September 2015 (EDT)
::It's based on the word פטרייה (Pitriya, mushroom). [[User:RaguRando|RaguRando]] ([[User talk:RaguRando|talk]]) 15:51, 13 September 2015 (EDT)
:::Okay, that's interesting. Thanks for the info! {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 16:01, 13 September 2015 (EDT)


==3D Land Toad==
:::Being a leader and more focus means nothing at all. http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>&middot;</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif
Why is the SM3DW's playable Toad considered the original Toad? It's much more likely that Captain Toad is the same as this page's red Toad. If anything this blue Toad is just a filler playable character to replace the now independent original. {{unsigned|anjeronett}}
::::To be fair, you can't tell 100% for sure who's who. I don't think Nintendo makes a notable difference between character and species. The Toad with red cap in blue is simply othen used as a representative for all Toads. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 07:34, 1 March 2008 (EST)
:At this point, it seems more like there just plain isn't a Toad character, and all the ones that have ever been identified as such are just generic members of the species. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:44, 19 February 2018 (EST)
::Without delving in that definitely hot topic, the reason is that even the [[Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.]] names the Toad of ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'' 「キノピオ」, rather than 「あおキノピオ」, the name of Blue Toad. And after all, Toad in ''[[Super Mario Bros. 2]]'' was fully blue, and it's pretty clear that the characters' part of ''Super Mario 3D World'' was inspired by that game. Anyway, regarding the matter of [[Captain Toad]], there is this very interesting excerpt from the ''Super Mario Pia'', the 25th anniversary memorial book, which was translated by {{User|2257}}:
<blockquote>
キノピオ<br/>
キノコ王国の住人たち。ピーチをさらわれてマリオに助けを求めるのがお約束のシリーズを代表するキャラで、赤色や黄色などカラーはさまざま。また、キノじいやキノピオ隊長など固有の名前をもつものもいる。<br/>
登場作品 SM, SM2, SM3, USA, SM64, SMS, NSM, SMG, NSMW, SMG2, 3DL, NSM2, NSMU, 3DW
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
Toad<br/>
The inhabitants of the Mushroom Kingdom. Seeking Mario's help when Peach has been kidnapped is a typical characteristic representing this series [of characters], and they come in various colors such as red and yellow. Also, there are some who have unique names, such as Toadsworth, Captain Toad, and the like.<br/>
Appears in works: SMB, SMBTLL, SMB3, SMB2, SM64, SMS, NSMB, SMG, NSMBW, SMG2, SM3DL, NSMB2, NSMBU, SM3DW.
</blockquote>
::Captain Toad, who has his own entry in the characters' section of the book, is not considered the same as Toad in that he has a unique name which is not just ''Toad'', and now he has his own appearance too.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:16, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
:::This section also does not seem to be referring to the "character" of "Toad," given that there was no specified "character" named that in most of those games, while NSMB just had multiple copies of Toadsworth outside of minigames. As such, it doesn't really imply that it is the same "character," but rather that there is no consistent "character." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:18, 10 April 2018 (EDT)


== It was confirmed that toads "cap" cannot be removed ==
Just mention in the "other appearances" section that toads appeared in those games that ''might'' be Toad, but it's not for sure. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}}<br>
Actually, it would probably be best for us to count the notable toad in the blue vest as Toad, and others as just [[Toad (species)|Toad]]s. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 10:23, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:In the beginning of Galaxy, it shows the Toad Brigade holding various stars and stuff, and the red Toad is wearing the blue shirt.  It might be hinting towards him being the actual character Toad.  Plus, though this isn't really concrete evidence, back during Super Mario Sunshine, there were li'l kubrick figures and the Toad in red was packaged in the group, showing his importance despite the fact that he did nothing in Sunshine (along with the other Toads).  Either way, it would be good to at least mention the fact that this Toad could possibly be the one from the Toad Brigade in Galaxy.  [[User:UrsulaBoi|UrsulaBoi]] 11:08, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:Maybe mention in the other appearances section that it's unsure whether these Toads are Toad. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 11:46, 24 April 2008 (EDT)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVNYfoFcrZY is my source. as far as i can tell, this is nintendo's official youtube.(it's a copy/paste link, not sure it will work)
== A Toad, Not The Toad ==
{{unsigned|Random}}
Many parts of this article talk about games which feature Toads(s) as if they were the actual Toad character. Obviously, any game with numerous Toad(s) isn't a game the actual Toad appears in. Therefore, all of this informaiton needs to be moved to the [[Toad (species)]] page. [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
:[[Toad#Physical appearance|Already in the article]]. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 17:24, 23 February 2018 (EST)


== Split {{fake link|Toad (item)}} from Toad ==
==odd section==
{{Settled TPP}}
If you scroll down to the Mario Tennis. There is and two  sentence that are to closes together is this Vandal.[[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 13:54, 8 March 2008 (EST)
{{Proposal outcome|passed|4-5-0|merge to 1-Up Mushroom}}
Despite the fact that the ''[[Hotel Mario]]'' manual describes the Toad item as "TOAD" himself, it describes this as awkwardly as the aforementioned game itself. This specific "mushroom" isn't even a character, and barely even resembles Toad - it's just an item that grants an extra life when Fire Mario stands near an open door. Considering we've recently re-split [[Morty Mole]] from [[Mega Mole]], I think I'm seeing a similar case here (especially revolving around [[1-Up Mushroom]]s), and would like to hear users' opinions on this.


'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br>
==Wario==
'''Deadline:''' April 10, 2018, 23: 59 GMT
Why the heck do we have a relationship to Wario in here?? Its not needed! {{User:MegaMario9910/sig}}


===Split into its own article===
Well Toad did fight against Wario in Wario's woods. {{User|Pichufan93}}
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal.
==new quote,please?==
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} This is basically an interpreted composite of both Toad and 1-Up Mushroom to the point that it barely resembles either and would be better off in its own article. Per Toadette.
umm, does anyone have a better quote? [[User:Super Luigi!|Super Luigi!!]]
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} When replacing the sprite back in 2016, I found it strange to be put in the main [[{{ARTICLEPAGENAME}}]] article. I didn't question it because I didn't know much about it and ''[[Hotel Mario]]'' is an obscure title that [[Nintendo]] doesn't even want to consider [[MarioWiki:Canonicity|canon]], let alone fans. I was just concerned about replacing the sprite at the time. Splitting makes sense, now the topic has been revisited. I had since forgotten about it.
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per all.


===Merge over to [[1-Up Mushroom]]===
==Super Princess Peach Appearence==
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Based on the 1-Up alternatively being called Extra Mario Mushroom in SMW, I'm more in favor of a merge with 1-Up Mushroom.
Well after seeing the intro, I saw that Mario , Luigi and one specific Toad that looks just like Toad being taken in by the hammer bros to Bowser. Should that info be added to Toad's page? {{User|Pichufan93}}
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Per my comments.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} At the time of my previous vote, this option didn't exist. I am also OK with this option because the ''Hotel Mario'' Toad behaves like a 1-Up Mushroom.
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all.


===Do nothing===
If you're sure it was one Toad, then by all means add it to the article.--{{User:Knife/sig}} 19:04, 10 September 2009 (EDT)


===Comments===
==Luigi's Mansion==
The game's version of Banzai Bill isn't that much bigger than than a usual Bullet Bill (or really any different design-wise for that matter), but still we stick to how Fantasy Factory / Philips Media presented their game. I think the question is, why should we change what's already there in print? (And how is this similar to the Mega Mole / Morty Mole situation?) [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:38, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
In this game, I pretty sure that Toad appeared only and not other toads as he was sent by peach. Should it be added to the article? {{User|Pichufan93}}


May I see a scan of the infamous enclosed instruction book so I can be absolutely sure what this says? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:17, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
==A Toad, Not the Toad (Again)==
:This was what the manual read: ''"If Fire Mario opens a door with a Super Mushroom behind it, the mushroom turns into TOAD, an Extra Mario Mushroom. He gives Mario an extra life."'' I don't actually own the manual, but [https://archive.org/stream/HotelMarioUSAManual/Hotel%20Mario%20%28USA%29#page/n11/mode/2up here's a link to it]. Hope that helps! {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 17:30, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
A long time ago I commented on how much of the page contains information about Toad species and not Toad the character in terms of game appearances. Soon I WILL be moving anything deemed the Toad species unless someone expresses concern about what shouldn't be moved and why. [[User:ForeverDaisy09|FD09]]
::[https://archive.org/stream/HotelMarioUSAManual/Hotel%20Mario%20%28USA%29#page/n7/mode/2up And the "Mario's Friends" section] just says "Toad" and annunciates the sentence as if it were a character. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:45, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:::That's not to say that we have [[Toad (move)|the Toad move]] split from the character. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 17:49, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
::::Well, I actually just went ahead and scanned the relevant pages in my own manual, but looks like there is no need to upload it anymore (mine is apparently a European copy with three more languages, and for some reason, Monty Mole is missing from the English instructions but still there in the other three, among other oddities). I do want to point out, though, that "Coins", "Super Mushroom", "Fire Flower", and "Star Man" are also listed as "Mario's Friends" in the manual, and those can't really be considered characters. On the other hand, it's called "Toad" more than once in the manual, and it appears in different circumstances than a normal 1-Up Mushroom. Just to clarify, this proposal would turn Extra Mario Mushroom into its own article separate from both Toad and 1-Up Mushroom, correct? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:48, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::Yes it would, but see my reply to Doc below. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 18:54, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
Also want to point out, "Extra Mario Mushroom" is an alternate name for the 1up Mushroom used in [http://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Nintendo_SNES/manual/Formated/Super_Mario_World_-_1991_-_Nintendo.pdf ''Super Mario World'']. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:05, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:Then maybe it should be called {{fake link|Toad (item)}} instead...? {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 18:41, 27 March 2018 (EDT)


@Link-the-Lefty Then what to do about the game's Banzai Bill, which resembles the actual Banzai Bill even less than this resembles the standard 1up? The original 1up was primarily orange, and it was red in SMB2, just a reminder. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:26, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
For which parts are you speaking about. Most of the article besides the confusion with Toad appearences seem to be related to the character Toad. Things like the mario 64 part which I assume you're talking about are confirmed to be Toad from the instruction manuels. [[User:Pichufan93]]
:It is still ''a little bit'' bigger than Mario, whereas in most 2D games, Bullet Bill is approximately the size of Small Mario. Besides, a lot of the game's enemy designs are off-model anyway. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:50, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
::Just as every ''Super Mario World'' sprite is off-model, and anyways, none of the enemies are any more off-model than this game's "Extra Mario Mushroom." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:58, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:::The difference between this item/"character" and everything else in the game is that it is officially given two different names, which are otherwise consistently depicted as two entirely separate subjects everywhere else in the series without exception, as opposed to an unambiguous single name that would place it in one article in a very straightforward manner. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 20:20, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
::::I see that as more unnecessary obfuscation. It has two names typically reserved for two different things, yes, but it follows the function of one of those things fairly well, and in fact moreso than the counterpart of Wiggler in that game. This should become a multi-option proposal. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:03, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::But it's not like it's only referred to as Toad only once and it never comes up again; it's first seen under Extra Mario Mushroom, where it's described as "''TOAD, an Extra Mario Mushroom''" in the same sentence, and then it's switched to Toad in the rest of the manual when it's listed among the other friendly items. This looks like it's a combination of both concepts. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:10, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::Except the only thing it borrows from the concept of the character is the name, though I suppose you could stretch the color in as well. This honestly seems to need what currently is happening between [[Block Boo]] and [[Red Boo]] (while those need switched around). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:34, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::::But even if it is indeed closer to one of them over the other in practice, it's still different enough from your average 1-Up Mushroom. "''If Fire Mario opens a door with a Super Mushroom behind it, the mushroom turns into TOAD, an Extra Mario Mushroom.''" It is directly part of the game's power-up chain (ie. Super Mushroom and Fire Flower), which is never the case in any other game. "''Toad looks similar to the Super Mushroom but moves faster.''" That is a completely unique characteristic exclusive to this appearance. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:50, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::::As is the behavior of Wiggler in this game, which is outright incompatible with other appearances so behavior doesn't have much ground to stand on, as it's far more similar than some other things the game throws at us. As for what I was talking about with the Boos, currently, the info for the SMS enemy is on Red Boo while Block Boo has a link to that section, while it should be reversed, and I think that hear, the information should be on 1up Mushroom, as that's what it is, and is just as different from normal as the ones from SMB2 were. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:30, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::The focus here is on the items/"friends", not the enemies. Coins, Super Mushroom, Fire Flower, and "Star Man" are all clearly the same thing as their normal counterparts (even if Super Mario has a different appearance to better suit the gameplay). Toad / Extra Mario Mushroom is definitely the outlier of the five. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 22:48, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::::::I believe all gameplay elements should be treated equally regarding support for arguments. Because they should. Saying "one's an enemy and the other's helpful" has no bearing on whether something should be considered more different from their respective normal version. I think you were more on point eight years ago when you said "Go with what's recognizable. We're not creating a separate page for Skeleton Koopa, for example," or something to that effect. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:05, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::::All right, then, how would you write ''Hotel Mario'''s Toad or 1-Up Mushroom in a way that doesn't rely on personal assumptions to discredit the other as mistaken? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 23:15, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::::::::I would include it within the 1-up Mushroom article, as functionally, that's what it is, and is given a name for that very item at the time, not to mention being a Mushroom item that gives an extra life. I would put a {{template|Main Article}} in a ''Hotel Mario'' section on Toad's page. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:46, 28 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::::::This results in [[MarioWiki:Once and only once|overlap]], which splitting resolves. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 00:53, 28 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::::::::::It doesn't if the statement on Toad's page goes as "According to the game's manual, the [[1-Up Mushroom|Extra Mario Mushroom]] is the same as Toad, despite the many irreconcilable differences between the character and item." Then, the ado about needing to be Fire Mario would go on the 1-Up page. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:10, 28 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::However this proposal turns out, we're both in agreement that it doesn't belong in the Toad article (at least primarily), yes? So to that end, I would concur that an extra option for moving to the 1-Up Mushroom page should be included. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:32, 28 March 2018 (EDT)
@Waluigi Time: How does that help anything? {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 19:45, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:Probably due to sharing at least ''a'' name as well as a function. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:47, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
::Yeah...even so, it was found that "Extra Mario Mushroom" is only used once to describe the Toad items in the manual, and "Toad" is used far more often. And also take note that we have [[1 UP Heart]] even though they look near-identical to other [[Heart]]s and function identical to 1-Up Mushrooms. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 22:07, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:To me it seems more like Hotel Mario's weird version of the 1-up than its own item and would make more sense there. However I still don't think it belongs on this page, since it's definitely not Toad the character. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:08, 28 March 2018 (EDT)


Might I ask you if you can explain more clearly in the introduction why you consider this case similar to the one of Morty Moles? In that case the official name was clearly different. Here, it's the appearance and role which is clearly different, while the official name is the same. I'm guessing that you see the similarity because the internal name of Morty Moles is the official name of Mega Moles, ''Indy'', but I think it would be better if we could know that.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:50, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
==Main Quote==
There is somthing odd about the main quote.I mean, Toad didn't appear in Mario and Luigi:Bowser's inside story.So the main quote belongs to another Toad!Is it okay to change it?[[User:Mr bones]]


== Reopening a can of worms ==
Yeah, it should be changed. Toad never appeared in that game. [[User:Pichufan93]]


Since Yellow Toad seems to be referred to as simply Toad in NSMBU Deluxe, where Blue Toad is absent, is it possible that "Toad" in SM3DW actually is Blue Toad, and Nintendo didn't feel the need to distinguish between the two because Yellow Toad was absent in that game? --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 20:15, 25 December 2018 (EST)
Who changed the new main quote?[[User:mr bones]]
:Remember that ''Super Mario 3D World'' was inspired by the NES version of ''Super Mario Bros. 2'', in which Toad was fully blue. His name in both the Nintendo Official Guidebook, the Japanese site as well as the Japanese ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' is just ''Kinopio'', and that carried over in NA material as well. As far as I know, we don't have evidence that he was just meant to be Blue Toad - {{file link|EncyclopediaSMB - Characters pt1.jpg|since the Japanese encycloepdia clearly separated ''Ao Kinopio'' from ''Kinopio''}}, they should have used ''Ao Kinopio'' in the ''Super Mario 3D World'' section. If you want to dig deeper, you'll find that ''Kinopio'' in Japan actually means ''Toad'', ''a Toad'' and even ''the Toads'', and you'll soon discover that happened with Yellow Toad's name in ''New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe'' is likely just the consequence of a [[List of Toad profiles and statistics#Miis' Dialogues (Wii U version)|true can of worms that Nintendo revealed in a now obscure game]] and that we can't face right now, due to its far reaching implications. In any case, as far as ''Super Mario 3D World'' is concerned, we don't really have any source that points to him being a non-renamed Blue Toad rather than just Toad with a reference to how he looked in ''Super Mario Bros. 2''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:58, 26 December 2018 (EST)
::I'll further add that [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/switch/adala/pc/story/index.html since in the Japanese site of ''New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe'' Toad is correctly reported as ''Kiiro Kinopio'' (= Yellow Toad)], we have even less reasons to open can of worms right now!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:09, 26 December 2018 (EST)
:::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAXicfW9oO8&t=13m42s Kinopio] was heard in the Nintendo Direct, and for the record, while the ''Super Mario 3D World'' character is plainly labeled as "<tt>Kinopio</tt>" everywhere including the game files, that model is renamed "<tt>KinopioBlue</tt>" in ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker'' (as Captain Toad, who was "<tt>KinopioBrigade</tt>" internally, now takes the generic "<tt>Kinopio</tt>" slot). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:26, 26 December 2018 (EST)
::::This is an interesting finding, thanks for telling us. As you pointed out that's likely due to internal renaming and due to them giving the ''Kinopio'' name much less weight than we do here so that individual characters can be named ''Kinopio'' without this having any particular implications beside indicating the species they belong to. Still, considering how the Blue Toad is consistently referred to as ''Kinopio'' in both official material and even files of the game and is thus known as ''Toad'' here in the West, I'm not sure if this internal renaming can lead to particular consequences on our side, or be just another case in which Nintendo is pointing out how we should probably have a different approach toward the characters named ''Kinopio'' - something I'm very interested in but I don't think we are ready for right now.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:17, 26 December 2018 (EST)
::The Mii dialogue is clearly false though, as we've had several named Toad characters in the RPGs, not to mention Toadette. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:03, 26 December 2018 (EST)
:::That's likely a side effect of the translation, as Nintendo itself in the Super Mario Pia confirmed that a few Toads, such as Captain Toad and Toadsworth, have a unique name (｢また、キノじいやキノピオ隊長など固有の名前をもつものもいる。｣). I'll try to get the original Japanese text so we can see the actual meaning (very likely that ''Kinopio'' isn't really a personal name, but rather a species name, just like how the Super Mario Pia indicates how some Toads have a unique name).--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:17, 26 December 2018 (EST)
::::Well, the actual Japanese text is:
<blockquote>
キノピオには、さまざまな<span class=explain title="いろ">色</span>のキノピオがいてその<span class=explain title="ぜんぶ">全部</span>を<span class=explain title="さ">指</span>して｢キノピオ｣って<span class=explain title="い">言</span>うんだ。


でもどのキノピオも、とっても<span class=explain title="まじめ">真面目</span>で<span class=explain title="れいぎただ">礼儀正</span>しいんだよ!
==Mario Baseball conclusion==
</blockquote>
So should it be stated that Toad is infact in Mario baseball and Sluggers as seen by his bio, chemistry and importance in the opening movies? his bio states that he is peach's loyal subject who tries to protect her. It's possible that they made his vest red so that he wouldn't be with the same vest as Blue Toad. Yoshi is also stated as green yoshi in the baseball games at times as well I believe. So should it be added with the amount of hints there is? [[User:Pichufan93]]
::::I think the main misunderstanding is that the text talks about there being different Toads of various colors who are all known as ''Toad'' - not that all Toads have ''Toad'' as their name.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:43, 26 December 2018 (EST)
:::::I'm not sure that necessarily changes anything. Using this, we could say that Yellow Toad and Blue Toad are both simply named Toad, with the colors being mentioned to differentiate themselves from each other, making the SM3DW Toad very possibly Blue Toad. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:46, 26 December 2018 (EST)
::::::What changes is our approach toward characters named Toad/Kinopio. The material from Nintendo suggests that we should give less weight to that name as we do now, as characters can be named ''Toad'' with that name just telling us the species they belong to - actually, they are now telling us that sometimes even the color is omitted and, as such, what would normally be called ''Blue Toad'' or ''Yellow Toad'' can sometimes be named just ''Toad''! However, as of now, we assume that all characters named just ''Toad'' are the same character, and we add a new entry in the main page every time this happens. I think we'd need a proposal to change that and that would be a true can of worms, as you can easily guess.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 13:00, 26 December 2018 (EST)


Well, [https://www.kadokawa.co.jp/product/321808000468/ this rather recent book from Kadokawa and Gzbrain] effectively states that {{file link|MCDSZ Toad.png|the Toad in ''Super Mario 3D World'' is a ''blue'' Toad}}. Granted, it might just be that the author wants to point out the color of each character, as {{file link|MCDSZ SMW Yoshi.png|they also specified that Yoshi in ''Super Mario World'' is a ''green'' Yoshi}}, but this would effectively fit in what the Japanese Mii dialogue says about colored Toads being still named ''Toad'' at times, as well as what happened with Yellow Toad being often referred to as just ''Toad'' in the context of ''New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:30, April 1, 2020 (EDT)
== Stats ==
Does anyone have his stats from Mario Party 3 when he was a partner for Princess Peach in duel mode? --[[User:Daisysbiggestfan|Daisysbiggestfan]] 00:56, 12 January 2010 (EST)


== Nintendo Comics System ==
Sure here's it:


Is it just me, or are there ''way'' too many words dedicated to the Nintendo Comics System section? There's full-on in-depth plot synopses there, and they're written pretty terribly (presumably by somebody not fluent in English). Should we trim these down a bit? [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 03:11, 10 February 2019 (EST)
Toad
:Maybe, but it is about the only time he's had anything resembling character depth, so it'd make sense for it to be a larger section, just not ''that'' large. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 03:35, 10 February 2019 (EST)


== Luigi's Mansion 3 needs to be added to possible appearances section ==
Attack 1


A red toad with a blue vest that is presumably him has been shown to appear in the game why has someone not added that yet? ~~35.136.185.103~~
Stamina 1
:We can make that determination when the game is out. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:59, October 20, 2019 (EDT)


== Mistake: Toad's first appearance is in Super Mario Bros (1985) not Super Mario Bros. 2 ==
Salary 1


Toad says "Thank you Mario, by the princess is in another castle.". [[User:Orhoshmand|Orhoshmand]] ([[User talk:Orhoshmand|talk]]) 15:28, April 13, 2020 (EDT)
{{User:Mr bones/sig}}


That info is on the [[Toad (species)]] page.[[User:Duckfan77|Duckfan77]] ([[User talk:Duckfan77|talk]]) 15:35, April 13, 2020 (EDT)
By the way, that's not THE Toad, but a [[Toad (species)|Toad]].--{{User|Knife}} 14:11, 12 January 2010 (EST)
:''Kinopio'' was indeed introduced in ''Super Mario Bros.'', but that was without any doubt a species. The first ''Kinopio'' character that according to Nintendo was also a recurring one (since he reappeared in ''Wario’s Woods'') is the one of ''Super Mario Bros. 2'', who was also mentioned in the Miiverse interview about ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker'' for this reason (they wanted to stress how Captain Toad is not the Toad of ''Super Mario Bros. 2''). Since that Kinopio of ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' was a Toad bearing the species’ name and standard appearance, this page ultimately ended up covering all the occurrences of Toad when treated as individual rather than species.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:24, April 13, 2020 (EDT)


== Origami King ==
Actually, that is Toad as from what I seen, the game refers the Toad as just Toad. He also looks just like his usual self in that game. That's why he is Peach's partner due to being Peach's assistant and he's the only toad there. [[User:Pichufan93]]


Hi, was just going through this page and noticed that the Toads in the openings of SPM and Color Splash are classified as "the" Toad, but the one in Origami King's ending is not. Is there a particular reason for this? All seem to fulfill the same role of "Princess Peach's main companion", and still has the trademark red-spots-blue-vest design (though I do know several other Toads in the game also have this distinction). Nothing too big, just wasn't sure if this discussion has been had before. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 20:45, January 18, 2021 (EST)
== Super Mario Galaxy (series) Toad ==


== [[Toad]] Suggestion ==
That's the TOAD BRIGADE captain, not toad, toad has a blue vest, not red, that information should be deleted. I don't think it's just toad saying he's the captain and wearing a red vest. Who agrees with me?!


Hello, I suggest using the [[Mario Party 10]] artwork of [[Toad]] for his infobox. [[File:Toad - Mario Party 10.png|300px]]--[[User:ItzTej|ItzTej]] ([[User talk:ItzTej|talk]]) 22:15, February 13, 2021 (EST)
{{User:Ludwig von Luigi/sig}}
:We use the most recent, non-stylized version of character artwork for the infobox. Though following that, it would actually be [[:File:MKT Toad Sitting Artwork.png|this incredibly small image that would not look good at all]], so ''Super Mario Run''{{'}}s is the next best one. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 22:18, February 13, 2021 (EST)
I second using the ''Mario Party 10'' model. It is more recent than ''Super Mario Run'''s model as it's actually recycled artwork from ''Super Mario 3D World'' in 2013, using older rendering techniques. Toad also is in a neutral pose for the suggested artwork, and not running. --[[User:Memoryman3|&#32;memoryman3]] ([[User talk:Memoryman3|talk]]) 06:04, April 20, 2021 (EDT)
:There are lots of other characters whose infobox artwork is derived from old artwork as well, such as Daisy or even Mario. It doesn't matter if it's the "neutral pose" or not. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 06:11, April 20, 2021 (EDT)


Super Mario Galaxy Bio


== Are they the same? ==
'''Collectible Card Bio''': ''Toad is Princess Peach's closest confidant and sworn protector. Typically Toad is a happy character, as seen by the constant smile on his face. But now he has reason to be concerned. His beloved princess has been kidnapped by Bowser, and Toad will stop at nothing to help find her. Just when all is feared lost, Toad and his friends appear in their Mushroom-shaped ships and help guide Mario on his quest to save Princess Peach.''


[[File:Toad_icon.png|60px]] and [[File:Toadicon.png|60px]] are they the same? Can a toad be both blue and red? {{User:Bubbasour11/sig}}
Looks like it is indeed Toad. the bio is enough proofs.{{User:Mr bones/sig}}13:53, 31 August 2010 (UTC)


Um. Hello?{{User:Bubbasour11/sig}}
The captain is indeed Toad as since Sunshine, Toad has appeared in various games with a red vest (even confirmed in official guides for games like sunshine and even the spin-offs). His most standard look is with a blue vest though in games his coloration is changed for various reasons (such as distinguishing himself from the other Toads). He is also a major Toad in comparison to the other Toads in the game. His bio for galaxy is pretty much the only information that we have for the captain and even it confirms that he is Toad. He also got official artwork for galaxy 1 and was on the boxart of the second one as well. He is also one of the save icons that are represting galaxy characters (others include Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi and Luma from galaxy 2 I believe which are all characters that are in the game and he is labelled as Toad [though named as the captain to distinguish himself as well as the fact that he calls himself the captain of the Toad Brigade]). It's similar to Yoshi as we and even Nintendo sees the yoshis in sunshine and galaxy 2 as Yoshi himself and the same goes for Toad as they are both generic characters. [[User:Propeller Toad]]
:There was a discussion about this above. Basically, Nintendo revealed in a not-well-translated Mii dialogue of ''Mario & Sonic'' that they sometimes omit the color of the Toad, naming him just Toad. This happened recently also in ''New Super Mario Bros. Deluxe'', as well as in ''Mario Kart Tour'' where the names of the power-up variants of the various colored Toads omit the color of the Toad. We do have an official character picture book that refers to the Toad in ''Super Mario 3D World'' as Blue Toad. For the moment there haven't been changes though. I fear that this might open a can of worms, as effectively the Toad of ''Super Mario 3D World'' is likely fully blue because that was the color of Toad in ''Super Mario Bros. 2'', from which the main characters of ''Super Mario 3D World'' and their abilities have been borrowed.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:41, June 25, 2021 (EDT)


== Super Mario 64 ==
The confusion with appearances section seems to remain undecided on whether the Red spotted toad in SMS, SMG & SMG2 is Toad. But the SMS and SMG sections confirm that the red toad is Toad.
It's like two sections of the article are debating with eachother. Someone should clear that up.


Isn't it logical to assume that at least one of the [[Toad (species)|Toad]]s within Peach's Castle in SM64 is [[Toad|the character Toad]]? My best guess is the one in the main hall of the castle, but there's plenty of Toads in the castle. So if he is one of them, he could really be anywhere. In [[Super Mario 64 DS]], another reasonable guess would be the one in the rec room. But is he really squeezing in among his comrades? And if so, '''which one is he?''' [[User:Broque|Broque]] 20:40, August 2, 2021 (EDT)
[[User:IGGY7735]]
:This ambiguity issue regarding appearances of the Toad "character" is the entire reason [[Toad#Possible_appearances|this section]] exists. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 20:49, August 2, 2021 (EDT)
::I have honestly always been a bit skeptical about keeping that section for even being speculative in the header. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 20:52, August 2, 2021 (EDT)
:::If he is in there, then it would be impossible to find him.{{User:Gandalf}} 10:42, March 12, 2023


== digit ==
I personally think we should keep the confusion part, but change it around to make sure we mention why Toad does make an appearance in these games. Why? Well, it is to show those reading the article the reasoning as to why this Red Toad is indeed Toad. Therefore, we should keep the confusion parts as well as it will give some insight to the those viewing Toad's article so that they are aware of why this Red Toad is indeed Toad (proof is provided in each example I believe). However, I think we should change the lead from saying "This section will list his possible appearances." to "This section will list the disputed appearances of Toad." (since it was once argued before as to whether or not the Red Toad was indeed Toad before we got proof).


NSMBU What is "two digits"? --[[Special:Contributions/58.176.43.120|58.176.43.120]] 06:11, April 30, 2022 (EDT)
[[User:Propeller Toad]]
:If you're referring to "Toad also appears when the player finishes a level with the last two numbers on the time limit matching and rewards the player with a power-up for their achievement.", it means that the last two digits on the [[Time Limit]] that are the same, like 099. It's a similar vein as in [https://www.mariowiki.com/New_Super_Mario_Bros.#Moves_and_items New Super Mario Bros.] where clearing a level where the time limit ends in X11, X22, X33, and so on has the retro level clear theme play and spawns a Toad House. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 14:43, April 30, 2022 (EDT)
::I should point out I rewrote the sentence after that comment was posted to be more clear. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 14:46, April 30, 2022 (EDT)


== Olympic games trivia ==
== An Error ==
I just was reviewing, and isn't [[Toadsworth]] [[Princess Peach]]'s long time protector and not Toad himself? Just saying. Feel free to give your ideas to this.


According to the in-game trivia from mario & sonic olympic games tokyo 2020, toad did debut in super mario bros., what's up with that?{{User|Linshixi}}
{{User:GamingGal9/sig}}
:It might refer to the Toad species, the character however was established in Super Mario Bros. 2. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 14:14, April 19, 2023 (EDT)
::It's probably because the distinction between the "main" Toad and the "other" Toads is really inconsistent between games and other pieces of media (including whether there even IS a "main" Toad), so it's probably lumping them for convenience (which is what Nintendo usually does). Note how some games treat Kamek as a SMW-debut (or at least use the Magikoopa SMW sprite to represent him) since that's a similar situation. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:20, April 19, 2023 (EDT)


== Toad is also appears in Mario + Rabbids series, why that info is not here? ==
I'm not sure what part you are mentioning in particular but if you mean the intro then that is referring to the fact that Toad is a protector of the Mushroom Kingdom due to efforts such as helping mario to save the kingdom or even protecting it by himself in  games like Wario's Woods. However in relation to Princess Peach, Toad originally was Peach's protector and her loyal servant who would take care of her (his roles being similar to Toadsworth's in the original games-eg. Mario RPG legend of the seven stars). Toadsworth only came in recently and replaced Toad's role in the newer games like in sunshine and the mario and luigi games. However in some of the new games such as the galaxy games, it is seen that the captain is Toad as he is going on to help his princess by helping Mario to recover the power stars. Even though Toadsworth is peach's steward now, Toad is still her loyal servant and does his best to protect her (thus being a long time protector).


Toad is appears in Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle as supporting character and make possible cameo in Sparks of Hope. But, why any info about Toad in Mario + Rabbids not there?{{unsigned|TheAwesomeMario}}
[[User:Propeller Toad]]
:I added a section for Kingdom Battle, however I haven't for Sparks of Hope because that game doesn't feature the Toad character, not even as a "possible cameo". {{User:Swallow/sig}} 05:23, August 13, 2023 (EDT)


== Should we start splitting Toad's history? ==
== [[Toad#Powers and Abilities|Powers and Abilities]] ==
I think we should start doing this because this page definitely needs to be divided because of it's size. Mario already has [[History of Mario|this taken care of.]][[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 20:54, November 1, 2023 (EDT)
Nothing about NSMB Wii. {{User:SWFlash/Sig}}
:Yes, I think so. It's really long, about as long as Peach's is, and Princess Peach's history has already been moved. I really think we should. -- {{User:FanOfRosalina2007/sig}} 16:36, December 7, 2023 (EST)
:While two Toads are playable, Toad isn't technically one of them as [[Blue Toad]] and [[Yellow Toad]] have their own pages. The abilities of Toad from that game can be seen on those two pages. [[User:Pichufan93]]
::Several users who were splitting lots of history sections have been told to stop doing so, the reason being because we are trying to figure out a different guideline from the 100K byte one. For now, this should wait. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 16:54, December 7, 2023 (EST)
::Yellow and Blue are toads too, so every toad can be Mini, Propeller and Penguin.{{User:SWFlash/Sig}}
:::Oh, alright. I didn't know that. Thank you so much for telling me, because I was going to start on this today. Thanks! -- {{User:FanOfRosalina2007/sig}} 12:00, December 8, 2023 (EST)


== Strange inclusions ==
==Super Mario Bros.==
{{talk}}
{{talk}}
I understand I may be poking a bees' nest here, but I find a lot of the games covered in this page to be very strange inclusions. From what I'm noticing, a Toad is covered in this page if, among other, more logical reasons, a Toad in the game is referred to as "Toad" without an indeterminate article. However, it's fairly common for the games to refer to Toads this way. Take Luigi's Mansion 3, for example, where all three Toads are referred to this way.
The article claims that Toad was one of the [[Mushroom Retainer]]s rescued in ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'', but this is not stated in the game and no source is cited; is there any official word on this? He's confirmed to be a Mushroom Retainer in the ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' manual, but that wouldn't have to mean he's one of those that appear in ''Super Mario Bros.''; we don't know how many Mushroom Retainers there are. As far as I'm aware, Toad as a character wasn't invented until the western ''Super Mario Bros. 2'', so unless there's some source retrospectively stating that he's meant to be one of the Toads in the original ''SMB'', that section shouldn't be here.--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] 14:31, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
So, let's go through the games whose inclusions I find strange. I won't get into the whole "Possible Appearances" stuff, but
:I suppose no, there are many other things that makes your mind confused. Like this [[Toad Brigade]]. They weren't even confirmed to be the same as the ones in [[SMS]]. So back to the subject, no, I don't think there is a single source confirming that. If there is, then the writer of that information should put it in references.{{User:Mr bones/sig}}07:23, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
* Super Mario Bros. 3 - Because name. The section covers the Toad that wishes Mario good luck at the start of the story, the Toad working for the king of Grass Land, and the Toad(s) in every Toad's House.
:Source??????? Read manual for this wiki, it's not upcoming game.{{User:SWFlash/Sig}}By the way, look at mushroom retainer and Toad, very familiar don't you think?<br>
* Super Mario 64 - Because name, due to the English manual saying that Peach and Toad are missing. However, this is a mistranslation: the Japanese version is explicitly plural (''Kinopio-tachi'', literally "Toads"). And also this is contradicted by another source.
[[File:SMB Toad.png|50px]][[File:Toadsmall.jpg|50px]]<br>
* Luigi's Mansion - Because name. First, there is the 3DS version's manual, more specifically, from what I understand, the part that says you can save the game by talking to Toad. This is true for every Toad in the game, yet the section treats this as referring to only one. Also covers the phone call from a Toad because he introduces himself as "Toad".
Retainer has 3 colors+black background because of NES's 8-bitness, while Toad from Wii has alot of colors with 3rd dimension. Both has white cap with red dots, both has white pants, rounded shoes (not brown because of 8-bit), that shirt (you know why not blue, right?).
* Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon - There are five Toads, all of different colors, and the first one happens to be red. That's it. Not only is this Toad working for E. Gadd's rather than Peach, he's not even called just "Toad". E. Gadd calls him "one of my Toad assistants", "my Toad assistant", "that Toad fellow", and "our Toad friend", and the game generically calls him "the Toad" once.
::It doesn't need to be an upcoming game. Anything that can't easily be cofnirmed from what's seen in the game or stated in its manual should be sourced, people can just go around putting nonsense speculation everywhere otherwise. Also, nobody doubts that Toad is a Toad, if that's what you're trying to show.--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] 15:47, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
So, thoughts? [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:30, March 29, 2024 (EDT)
:The line between Toad the character and Toad the copy-pastes is so blurred that I'm in favor of merging the articles. As you've shown, there are instances where a random member of this species is called "Toad". And while you didn't address it, I'd like to add that the "possible appearances" section is awfully speculative and is not a good look for an encyclopedia. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:51, March 29, 2024 (EDT)


:Yeah, I feel like the speculative appearance section should just be removed outright. Toads other than The Toad™ have been shown to don the red cap + blue vest motif so I feel like there's really no reason to keep it. Also, when The Toad™ is in a game, the game usually goes out of its way to make it obvious. - [[User:Robothing|Robothing]] ([[User talk:Robothing|talk]]) 02:14, September 14, 2024 (EDT)
No, that doesn't mean they're the same. All the toads look similar. Specially red ones, just look at paper mario's many red toads!! And they all look like Toad himself.{{User:Mr bones/sig}}07:28, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
::They'll call ''any'' Toad, "Toad" whenever convenient (New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe). Even if there is a singular red-spotted playable Toad. See Mario Party 9 minigame [[Toad and Go Seek]] (the minigame itself repeatedly refers to this blue Toad as "Toad"; e.g. Watch Toad! Find Toad!, there's no qualifying articles like "Find the Toad", or "Find this Toad"). {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:20, September 14, 2024 (EDT)
 
The Smash Bros. series has Toad's first appearance (in his trophies) labelled as Super Mario Bros. and when Super Mario Bros. 2 was made, it was stated within the instruction manuals that Toad was one of Peach's Mushroom Retainers from the original game. In Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, Toad was one of the 6 mushroom retainers that appeared as well. Additionally, the mario cartoons (if you count it) has him referring to himself as a mushroom retainer as well. I believe the further evidence is that Toad still has the position of being Peach's loyal servants (considering the games after Super Mario Bros. had the retainers renamed as Peach's servants and guards). Toad has also been seen as a representation for all Toads, therefore he has been named to being one of the retainers in the original game as well as seen in the twenty fifth mario series anniversary products and booklets. In short, Toad's singular appearance was yes in Super Mario Bros. 2, however his this singular character was made directly off the design from the mushroom retainers making any one of them the Toad that made his appearance in Mario 2.
[[User:Pichufan93]]09:37, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
:It seems there's a bit of a misunderstanding here; I'm not doubting the fact that Toad is a Mushroom Retainer, I even pointed out that the ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' confirms him to be one. The manual does not state that he's one of the Mushroom Retainers in ''Super Mario Bros.'', however; there may be any number of Mushroom Retainers in addition to those that are rescued in that game, which I also pointed out above. If his first appearance is indeed given as ''Super Mario Bros.'' in other official material though, that's proof enough I suppose. Someone should probable cite those in the respective section though to avoid further confusion (as I stated above, it's not clear from the game itself or its manual that Toad is supposed to be in it, so sourcing that information makes sense.)--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] 15:47, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 
This game marks the debut of the mushroom people (Toads). Therefore, considering how Toad is seen as the singular representation of the Toads, it makes sense that he made his debut in this game, though he was never considered to being a singular character in later games. Also look at remakes of Super Mario Bros., like Super Mario Bros. deluxe. This game has Toad as the singular representation for the mushroom retainers further proving this point. Mario RPG has also made references to his appearance and the Melee and Brawl trophies are big proofs as well (especially the melee one which talks mainly about Toad himself). I agree with Pichufan93 as it is true for the 25th Super Mario bros. anniversary, merchandise lists Toad being one of the characters making their debuts in this game. Also spin-offs state that his first appearance was in this game (Super Mario Kart, Mario kart 64 ect). [[User:Propeller Toad|Propeller Toad]] 19:46, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
:Hey I posted this in an earlier section but i didnt see this one... http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/Q3TJhfvkUiLDeT6Brt3L2AyaWRCF0djg confirms that Toad debuted in Super Mario Bros. 2, so there is no way he was in the original. [[User:A Link to the Present|A Link to the Present]] 23:58, 17 February 2011 (EST)
 
It is official, however, this has not been the case at all times as the Smash bros. trophies state that Toad's first appearance was in Super Mario Bros.. Additionally, the Mario twenty fifth video (and site) anniversary names the mushroom retainer beside Peach as '''Toad'''. We have to also take in consideration that Toad is the sole representative for all Toads, so it seems that Nintendo uses Toad as the general image for the Mushroom Retainers in the original game.
 
Not to mention the various catch cards for Toad's profile (in countless spin-off games) which state that his first appearance was in Super Mario Bros.. [[User:Propeller Toad|Propeller Toad]]
 
== Talk Page Proposal: Split [[Toad]] and [[Red Toad]] ==
 
It is not proven anywhere that the red Toad that appears in Super Mario Sunshine, Mario Baseball, and Super Mario Galaxy 2 (there is evidence in the first one) is ''the'' Toad.  I propose we move the info about those Toads into a new article, and remove it from here. Who's with me?
 
'''Proposer''':{{User|Toad85}}<br>
'''Deadline''':September 10, 2011, 23:59 GMT
 
===Support===
#{{User|Toad85}} Well, it's my own proposal.
 
===Oppose===
 
===Comments===

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