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| ==Merge [[Tanooki Mario]] to [[Tanooki Suit]]== | | ==Merge [[Tanooki Mario]] to [[Tanooki Suit]]== |
| {{Settled TPP}} | | {{SettledTPP}} |
| {{Proposal outcome|failed|1-4|do not merge}}
| | <span style="color:red;font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size:150%">Don't MERGE 1-4</span> |
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| I read them and they say pretty much the same thing so I propose we merge them together. | | I read them and they say pretty much the same thing so I propose we merge them together. |
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| ====Comments==== | | ====Comments==== |
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| How do i get pictures on to this? i have great pics of tanooki mario but i can't figure out how. | | How do i get pictures on to this? i have great pics of tanooki mario but i can't figure out how. |
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| ==Split [[Tanooki Mario]] and [[Statue Mario]]== | | ==Split [[Tanooki Mario]] and [[Statue Mario]]== |
| {{Settled TPP}} | | {{SettledTPP}} |
| {{Proposal outcome|passed|23-0|split}}
| | <span style="color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size:150%">SPLIT 23-0</span> |
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| In [[Super Mario 3D Land]] Statue Mario is a completely different form. It is obtained by a different Powerup, it has a different effect and the form looks different. The Statue ability from Super Mario Bros 3. was a part of Tanooki Mario's ability. In Super Mario 3D Land Nintendo turned it into a completely different powerup. It needs to be split! Oh, and this is my first proposal so tell me if I did something wrong ;) | | In [[Super Mario 3D Land]] Statue Mario is a completely different form. It is obtained by a different Powerup, it has a different effect and the form looks different. The Statue ability from Super Mario Bros 3. was a part of Tanooki Mario's ability. In Super Mario 3D Land Nintendo turned it into a completely different powerup. It needs to be split! Oh, and this is my first proposal so tell me if I did something wrong ;) |
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| == Split [[Tanooki Mario]] and [[Tanooki Mario#White Tanooki Mario|White Tanooki Mario]]== | | == Split [[Tanooki Mario]] and [[Tanooki Mario#White Tanooki Mario|White Tanooki Mario]]== |
| {{Settled TPP}} | | {{SettledTPP}} |
| {{Proposal outcome|passed|7-0|split}}
| | <span style="color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size:150%">SPLIT 7-0</span> |
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| Yes, White Tanooki Mario is like a version of Tanooki Mario, but, this form isn't the same. White Tanooki Mario is a look-alike. Also, Mario gets White Tanooki Mario when use an Invincibility Leaf instead of a Super Leaf. | | Yes, White Tanooki Mario is like a version of Tanooki Mario, but, this form isn't the same. White Tanooki Mario is a look-alike. Also, Mario gets White Tanooki Mario when use an Invincibility Leaf instead of a Super Leaf. |
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| The Tanooki Toads and Tanooki Peach so much resemble their forms of the Tanooki Suit powerup from the PC fan game [http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros._X Super Mario Bros. X]. I don't think Nintendo is stealing this concept, it was just a common idea. | | The Tanooki Toads and Tanooki Peach so much resemble their forms of the Tanooki Suit powerup from the PC fan game [http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros._X Super Mario Bros. X]. I don't think Nintendo is stealing this concept, it was just a common idea. |
| {{unsigned|Tryloubliss}} | | {{unsigned|Tryloubliss}} |
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| :Of course, Nintendo knew about ''Super Mario Bros. X''. Almost every official concepts were based on the fandom of the ''Mario'' series, just as [[White Tanooki Mario]] and [[White Raccoon Mario]]'s design are kind of based on Mario's super form from ''Super Mario Bros. Z''. Venus Ice Trap existed in the fandom before ''New Super Mario Bros. U''. But I doubt we'd have to point all of them out on the articles.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] ([[User talk:Prince Ludwig|talk]]) 21:18, 21 September 2013 (EDT) | | :Of course, Nintendo knew about ''Super Mario Bros. X''. Almost every official concepts were based on the fandom of the ''Mario'' series, just as [[White Tanooki Mario]] and [[White Raccoon Mario]]'s design are kind of based on Mario's super form from ''Super Mario Bros. Z''. [[Venus Ice Trap]] existed in the fandom before ''New Super Mario Bros. U''. But I doubt we'd have to point all of them out on the articles.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] ([[User talk:Prince Ludwig|talk]]) 21:18, 21 September 2013 (EDT) |
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| == Peach Suit == | | == Peach Suit == |
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| == Create a Tanooki Mario (character) article == | | == Create a Tanooki Mario (character) article == |
| {{Settled TPP}}
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| {{Proposal outcome|failed|1-9|do not create}}
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| Tanooki Mario need his own article, This is a separate character from [[Mario]] in [[Mario Kart 8]], we have Metal Mario (character) and Metal Mario (form). We even have [[Bowser Jr.]] being split from [[Shadow Mario]] after he only appear one time as a character. So, why not? | | {{TPP}} |
| | Tanooki Mario need his own article, This is a separate character from [[Mario]] in [[Mario Kart 8]], we have [[Metal Mario (character)]] and [[Metal Mario (form)]]. We even have [[Bowser Jr.]] being split from [[Shadow Mario]] after he only appear one time as a character. So, why not? |
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|LudwigVon}}<br> | | '''Proposer''': {{User|LudwigVon}}<br> |
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| #{{User|Tails777}} Per all opposing reasons on the Cat Peach proposal. | | #{{User|Tails777}} Per all opposing reasons on the Cat Peach proposal. |
| #{{User|BabyLuigi64}} Although Tanooki Mario has appeared much more than Cat Peach has, his appearance as a separate character ''is'' comparable to Cat Peach, so per all opposing reasons [[Talk:Cat Mario#Create a Cat Peach (character) article|here]]. I also feel like Shadow Mario and Bowser Jr. are not comparable to the two incarnations of the Tanooki Mario, because Shadow Mario is (in ''Sunshine'', at least) comparable to Mario's arsenal of power ups. Actually, Shadow Mario could even be an example of why ''not'' splitting this article is better, having appeared as an alternate identity for Bowser Jr. once before becoming separate from the young Koopa the next appearance. Both Shadow Mario and Tanooki Mario as separate characters simply have not been established as separate characters enough yet. | | #{{User|BabyLuigi64}} Although Tanooki Mario has appeared much more than Cat Peach has, his appearance as a separate character ''is'' comparable to Cat Peach, so per all opposing reasons [[Talk:Cat Mario#Create a Cat Peach (character) article|here]]. I also feel like Shadow Mario and Bowser Jr. are not comparable to the two incarnations of the Tanooki Mario, because Shadow Mario is (in ''Sunshine'', at least) comparable to Mario's arsenal of power ups. Actually, Shadow Mario could even be an example of why ''not'' splitting this article is better, having appeared as an alternate identity for Bowser Jr. once before becoming separate from the young Koopa the next appearance. Both Shadow Mario and Tanooki Mario as separate characters simply have not been established as separate characters enough yet. |
| #{{User|Magikrazy}} Tanooki Mario has been a separate character once, and it was fairly recent. Per all.
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| #{{User|SuperYoshiBros}} Per BabyLuigi64. What's next, ''Fire Mario (character)''?
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| #{{User|Walkazo}} - Per my vote on the Cat Peach TPP. Thanks to DLC, we'll probably see more and more alt forms of characters in spinoffs, and to avoid the number of unnecessary pages in the future, we should adapt a new rule of thumb saying that duplicates of characters merely appearing in sport/kart games isn't enough to split them, like how we don't give every coexisting ''SSB'' palette swap a page. [[Metal Mario (character)|Metal Mario]] also exists independently as a boss in ''[[Dr. Mario 64]]'', and [[Dry Bowser]] gets a page using the same logic that sees things like [[Dark Fawful]] split - in these cases, the idea is that splitting the info makes it easier to find and understand, but the Cat and Tanooki form pages are perfectly comprehensive as they are, and in no need of splits.
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| #{{User|Mario}} Once Tanooki Mario gets more distinct (that is, different stats) playable appearances alongside Mario, we'll reconsider. As of now, though, I feel like keeping him merged is the best route. I'm still open to the possibility of a split, but not now. Per all.
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| #{{User|Burningdragon25}} I'm going to leave it alone because Tanooki Mario and Cat Peach appear in ''[[Mario Kart 8]]'' as DLC characters so, that is a per all on this case.
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| #{{User|Glitchy Bowser Jr.}} Per my statement on the Cat Peach proposal.
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| #{{User|Lumastar}} The difference between Tanooki Mario and Metal Mario is that Metal Mario is much more established as a separate character (see ''[[Super Smash bros. (series)|Smash]]'' and ''[[Dr. Mario 64]]''. Tanooki Mario has only appeared in one game along with normal Mario, and unlike Metal Mario Tanooki Mario has almost identical stats to Mario. It's almost like he's some sort of special form. Per all.
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| ====Comments====
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| == Split between Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario 3D Land forms ==
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| {{Settled TPP}}
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| {{Proposal outcome|canceled}}
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| While Tanooki Mario looks pretty close to the original form outside of the hat visor, it has changed fairly drastically since its appearance in ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' and its remakes/re-releases. The primary difference is that it no longer has its signature transformation, a move which was instead given to Statue Mario. It also no longer flies and instead the emphasis is on slow descent (one can argue that it flies during the ending, but it could just as easily be them gliding from Bowser's tall tower to the Mushroom Castle - note that the Toads are obviously flailing, not to mention that flight is supposed to be limited in the first place rather than indefinite like the tail wagging). We have on record that the Tanooki Mario was chosen as a costume because it offered a better visual difference, so with that in mind, the intent of this version of the Super Leaf power-up was to harken back to the Tanooki Suit of old ''visually'', but not in actual ''performance''. In addition, the back of the original (Japanese) ''Super Mario 3D Land'' box labels it as an [http://www.gamefaqs.com/3ds/620831-super-mario-3d-land/images/box-214533 all-new power-up.]
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
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| '''Proposed Deadline''': July 11, 2015, 23:59 GMT<br>
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| '''Date Withdrawn:''' June 28, 2015
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| ===Support===
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| #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Proposal.
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| ===Oppose===
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| #{{User|Walkazo}} - Seems like needless complication to an already messy situation: best to keep all the info in one spot under the one name. It'll also just hamper navigation with no search benefits in return, since the name's the same; readers will expect the info to be together so all we'll be doing is making it harder for them to find what they want, especially if "Tanooki Mario" itself becomes a disambig page. Lots of items, forms and even characters change functions slightly between games: split this and we might as well consider splitting the Super Leaf the sane way, as well as the ''SSB'' and ''Hotel Mario'' versions of [[Super Mushroom]], and all the various spinoff versions of [[Fire Flower]]. Boxart propeganda is weak evidence when no name change accompanied it; the few enemies we've split in spite of no name differences were cases where both species were in the same game and had appearance, location and power differences; in all other cases, at least one region had a different name, or the differences were overwhelming, but seeing as the name and appearance is the same here, and the functionality still pretty similar, I think the cons far outweigh the pros of splitting this page.
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| #{{User|SuperYoshiBros}} Per Walkazo.
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| #{{User|Magikrazy}} Per Walky. We might as well have Fire Flower (Super Mario Bros), Fire Flower (Super Mario Galaxy), Fire Flower (Super Smash Bros), Red Shell (Super Mario Bros), Red Shell (Super Mario Kart), and lord knows what else.
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| #{{User|LudwigVon}} Per all.
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| ===Comments===
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| Flying probably wasn't added for obvious reasons, but will the split account for the [[Statue Leaf]] giving Tanooki Mario a handkerchief and the ability to transform into [[Statue Mario]]? You seem to mention that already, although it's not clear to me. Also, where will the Mario Kart 8 one go? It bears a closer resemblance to 3D Land / World Tanooki Mario since his Statue transformation is like them, although he doesn't wear the telltale handkerchief this time. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 15:44, 27 June 2015 (EDT)
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| @Walkazo: Are there any other examples where the same power-up or power-up of the same name shows as many or more differences as the Tanooki Mario (besides Ice Mario, I guess)? The main thing here is that we know the developers of ''Super Mario 3D Land'' treated Tanooki Mario as an aesthetic skin to what they wanted to accomplish, and it's for that reason that the box treats it as brand new (also note that the "Mario" and "Super Mario" forms were respectively renamed to "Small Mario" and "Mario" for their 3D appearance, and they weren't considered new to the series). I can't think of other instances at the moment besides what you mentioned about power-up items acting differently in certain spinoffs, but the focus here is on power-up forms themselves, not the actual items (although Super Mario and Fire Mario don't grow in size in the unconventional ''Hotel Mario'', but I think that's more because the hitbox was enough of a problem as it was, and the more practical idea of taking a hit is still there). As for Tanooki Mario being a disambiguation page, it would probably be better to simply have Tanooki Mario redirect to one of the resulting articles by default (the SMB3 version seems to be overall recognizable and has more exposure counting re-releases, so that would probably be ideal).
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| @Bazooka Mario: From what I can tell, Statue Mario refers to the power-up given by the Statue Leaf in 3D Land & 3D World (basically Tanooki Mario with the old SMB3 transformation but still lacking flight), not the temporary statue figure itself, so I'm not sure at what point we've decided to apply it to ''Super Mario Bros. 3''. Honestly, though, the ''Mario Kart 8'' DLC slipped my mind when I made this. It definitely has the 3D Land features, but it transforms into the Statue Mario (handkerchief) statue as a quick visual trick. The DLC characters tend to have cartoonier visual gags as part of their tricks over the base game roster, though (like Link's Triforce or ''Animal Crossing'' folks' stars and hearts). This might not affect gameplay whatsoever, but I suppose I would have to lean towards placing ''Mario Kart 8'' under the SMB3 version if we go with the split... There was a character proposal just above that would've made this moot, but it failed and I'm not sure it's really needed anyway. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:20, 27 June 2015 (EDT)
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| :How about Fire Mario being permanent until you get hit in most of the main series, but being timed in the Galaxy games? --{{User:SuperYoshiBros/sig}} 18:49, 27 June 2015 (EDT)
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| ::Fire Mario's change in ''Super Mario Galaxy'' is almost like its change in ''Hotel Mario'' - it's done probably more due to how damage works and how the environment is perceived in these titles. The game structure is different; for ''Super Mario Galaxy'' and other earlier 3D titles, there's a damage counter rather than the standard growth indicator. Some other power-ups are lost due to being hit or meeting a condition such as touching water, but for Fire Mario this alternate condition isn't obvious since he's always somehow never been dowsed off. At this point in 3D, Fire Mario's core function didn't change other than the way that the power-up is lost, because the developers thought that speedy puzzles made more suitable gameplay for the flowers. After all is said and done, though, neither of these changes are as substantial as stripping down the moveset from its traditions and redistributing the familiar statue ability to "another" power-up. Even ''Super Mario Galaxy'' incorporated flight in Bee Mario and Flying Mario (the latter might just be the most robust yet ill-realized in the entire series). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 23:14, 27 June 2015 (EDT)
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| @Magikrazy: Again, to summarize - this is about a power-up ''form'' and not a power-up ''item'', and I explained how Tanooki is fairly unique and different (even marked as "new") in ''Super Mario 3D Land'' compared to ''Super Mario Bros. 3'', using the name and design basically for the sake of nostalgia. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 23:30, 27 June 2015 (EDT)
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| The handkerchiefed Mario in ''Super Mario 3D Land'' isn't called "Statue Mario", it's still called "Tanooki Mario", if I recall correctly. It's only the leaf that gets a different name, Statue Leaf. Now that I think about it, it might also make sense that Mario can't fly or turn into a statue in the earlier levels since it might make the game too easy, especially if you consider that the Tanooki power-up is advertised and, as a result, extremely common in that game. I don't think you can just call the Statue transformation in ''Mario Kart 8'' some sort of visual gag as it just demonstrates what the Tanooki Suit is famous for, and leaving ''that'' out wouldn't be much of a fan service, would it? About that character split, yeah... I didn't see this proposal coming, and my reasoning of that proposal is "yeah, I'm open for a split, but only if Tanooki Mario appears in more games alongside Mario or his appearances are more comprehensive". I think putting Tanooki Mario from Mario Kart 8 into Super Mario Bros. 3 version is going to give me headaches though... {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 01:16, 28 June 2015 (EDT)
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| :I looked into it, and there's actually some conflicting information about Statue Mario. The [http://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/arej/powerup/index.html Japanese ''Super Mario 3D Land'' website] doesn't mention Tanooki Mario in the Statue Mario section, which gave me the impression that it refers to the Statue Leaf form and not the brief statue transformation; however, [http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/super-mario-3d-world/0/1 an Iwata Asks interview] suggests it's the statue itself, and that it first appeared in ''Super Mario Bros. 3''. (It also states that Lucky Cat Mario is a counterpart to the statue, even though [http://www.primagames.com/games/super-mario-3d-world/walkthrough/super-mario-3d-world-walkthrough-world-10-world-flower Prima] considers it the cat form with the collar rather than the transformation it makes, so ''something'' is off.) Since we appear to be going by the interview, it looks like we basically have three different Tanooki Marios. In a sense, the back of the 3D Land box is still true and you can probably group the Statue Leaf-powered Tanooki Mario under the 3D Land version, but that kind of defeats the purpose when the idea was to split them based around their abilities. ''Mario Kart 8'' DLC is one thing, but with this factored in, it may be best to put a cork on this proposal. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 04:04, 28 June 2015 (EDT)
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| == Okay, well, now I'm confused... ==
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| http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Tanooki_Mario&diff=prev&oldid=2085194
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| ...They're right. The note contradicts the rest of the article, which states that Luigi's variant is officially called '''Kitsune Luigi''' as of ''Super Mario 3D Land''. Should that note be removed and the artwork labeled as Kitsune Luigi? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 18:25, 1 November 2016 (EDT)
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| :[http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Tanooki_Mario&diff=next&oldid=1690711#Super_Mario_3D_Land Here's the revision] from when the note was added, and there's a line that clarifies things:
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| :''"While most languages, including the original Japanese, call this form Kitsune Luigi, the English translation still refers to it as Tanooki Luigi."''
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| :At some point, that line was scrubbed out, presumably because English sources eventually started referring to the suit as a Kitsune, but the note remained. I'd also vouch for removing the note, since we definitely have at least one English source (namely the SSB3DS trophy) that clearly calls Luigi a Kitsune. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 18:37, 1 November 2016 (EDT)
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| ::I don't feel this is something I should make a TPP for, so should I go ahead an remove it if at least one official English source says it's Kitsune Luigi? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 19:53, 1 November 2016 (EDT)
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| :::Sure, that should be fine.
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| :::{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 19:56, 1 November 2016 (EDT)
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| == Split sections between Tanooki Mario and Kitsune Luigi ==
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| {{settled TPP}}
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| {{proposal outcome|failed|0-14|Do not split}}
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| Tanooki and Kitsune have different appearances. They have same abilities but are opposites, so it should have two infoboxes. The article will be renamed as {{fake link|Tanooki Mario and Kitsune Luigi}}. Besides Luigi, other characters haven't had Kitsune form yet, but Toadette will getting this form likely. I would like to split it into two sections. This applies to infobox and <s>gallery, and language (order change),</s> list of appearance (if the list table created).
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| {{form infobox
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| |title=Tanooki Mario and Kitsune Luigi
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| |image=[[File:TanookiMarioSM3DL.png|125px]][[File:Kitsune Luigi.png|125px]]<br>Artwork of [[Tanooki Mario]] (left) and [[Kitsune Luigi]] (right) from ''[[Super Mario 3D Land]]'', respectively
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| |first_appearance=''[[Super Mario Bros. 3]]'' ([[List of games by date#1988|1988]], Tanooki)<br>''[[Super Mario 3D Land]]'' ([[List of games by date#2011|2011]], Kitsune)
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| |applies_to='''Tanooki:'''<br>''Character''<br>'''Kitsune:'''<br>''Character''
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| }}
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| Besides their first appearance, the infobox contents are not displayed as they may change time passes. However, "Applies to" is listed as <code>''Character''</code>.
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|Windy}}<br>
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| '''Deadline''': November 10, 2024, 23:59 GMT
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| ====Support (Split sections)====
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| ====Oppose (Status quo)====
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| #{{User|Arend}} I think it's going to look real clunky to have an article ''renamed'', as well as include ''a whole second infobox'', ''just'' to accommodate to Luigi having an alternate name and appearance to what is functionally the same thing ([[Fire Piranha Plant|some]] [[Thwomp|articles]] would simply put two images in the same infobox instead, y'know?). Judging by [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/70#Separate character content for transformations in the Gallery|a previous failed proposal of yours]], I don't think it's worth it to split the gallery, either. Proposal also argues that, while Luigi is currently the only one to get the Kitsune form, Toadette "will getting this form likely", which is ''entirely speculative'' because there's literally nothing supporting the idea that Toadette would get the Kitsune form beyond her being a counterpart to Toad (so does that mean Daisy is "likely" getting it too, then? Not only is she Peach's counterpart but also Luigi's (supposed) love interest, after all). In addition, if this proposal passes, that means we'd have to do the same thing with [[Raccoon Mario]] and [[Gold Mario]], thanks to ''New Super Mario Bros. 2'' introducing Fox Luigi and Silver Luigi, and I imagine this would be equally clunky, if not ''more so''. Splitting the language section is fine since we've done this with many other subjects, but since this is already implemented, the proposal instead suggests to change the order, which I don't see the point of with everything I've said in mind.
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| #{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} Per Arend. Kitsune is entirely an aesthetic difference and functions exactly the same.
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| #{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
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| #{{User|PrincessPeachFan}}: Nope.
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| #{{User|Nintendo101}} Per all.
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| #{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per all.
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| #{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
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| #{{User|Technetium}} Per all.
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| #{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.
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| #{{User|EvieMaybe}} as the local tanuki expert, this is a bad idea
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| #{{User|EleCyon}} Please don't. It's like splitting [[Gold Mario]] and Silver Luigi, and possibly even [[Boomerang Mario]], Boomerang Luigi, Boomerang Peach, and Boomerang Toad.
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| #{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per all, particularly Arend.
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| #{{User|Salmancer}} For the sake of fingers, I value concise titles some what slightly over semantics. I do think there's space in the intro to emphasize more that Kitsune Luigi is a special case.
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| #{{User|Pizza Master}} Lol, no. It'd make more sense anyway to create a proposal for splitting the two versions into different articles but since it's literally the same power up for both characters, that wouldn't make much sense. Per all.
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| ====Comments==== | | ====Comments==== |
| :The infobox is updated to two images in one infobox. Included their two appearances. [[User:Windy|Windy]] ([[User talk:Windy|talk]]) 06:54, October 27, 2024 (EDT)
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| {{@|Windy}} The creators of proposals can vote in them too! You can cast a vote. {{User:Sparks/sig}} 07:58, October 27, 2024 (EDT)
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| If we did this, then we would have to rename a ton of articles as well, which we're obviously not doing. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:31, October 27, 2024 (EDT)
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