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| == Split named sub-locations == | | == Split named sub-locations == |
| {{Settled TPP}} | | {{SettledTPP}} |
| {{Proposal outcome|passed|6-0|split}} | | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|6-0|split}} |
| This proposal aims to do exactly what the header indicates: split the locations that, while not always accessible from the world map, have official names, just like [[Melody Bay]], the [[Coal Mines]], [[Belome Temple]]. etc. These are: | | This proposal aims to do exactly what the header indicates: split the locations that, while not always accessible from the world map, have official names, just like [[Melody Bay]], the [[Coal Mines]], [[Belome Temple]]. etc. These are: |
| *The Vinery: the group of colorful beanstalks connecting [[Bean Valley]] to [[Nimbus Land]] | | *The Vinery: the group of colorful beanstalks connecting [[Bean Valley]] to [[Nimbus Land]] |
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| ==Give Shogakukan world numbers precedence over Player's Guide ones== | | ==Give Shogakukan world numbers precedence over Player's Guide ones== |
| {{Settled TPP}} | | {{SettledTPP}} |
| {{Proposal outcome|passed|5-0|Shogakukan has precedence}} | | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|5-0|Shogakukan has precedence}} |
| The original [[media:Super Mario RPG Worlds Final Edition.jpg|Shogakukan guide]] considers Yo'ster Isle to be its own world, consistent with it having its own section on the overworld map, and bringing the total number of worlds to the standard eight; the [[media:Super Mario RPG Worlds Player's Guide.jpg|Player's Guide]] instead considers it part of the third world and throws off the remaining worlds. It would be one thing if the guide was consistent about it, but closer inspection shows that it's not. For example, it claims that Kinklink and Terrapin appear in World 1{{hover|*|which could be technically correct if you believe the first visit to Bowser's Keep isn't World 8}}, Frogog and {{hover|Shyper|actually Shyster according to stats and being grouped in enemies instead of bosses}} appear in World 2, Chow, Fink Flower, Shy Ranger, and the Double Punch appear in World 3, Stinger and the Chomp weapon appear in World 4, the Hand Gun and the Sticky Glove appear in World 5, Fautso appears in World 7, etc. This is probably where the "Drill Bit is listed in World 5" mistake comes from; it's actually referring to Shogakukan world order, which would place it in what the Player's Guide considers World 4, as suspected. Due to the Shogakukan guide's overall greater sense of consistency as it doesn't shuffle the world numbers, this proposal will formalize the decision to give precedence to the world numbers used in Shogakukan. The discrepancies between the Shogakukan guide and the Player's Guide will still be noted in the worlds' own articles, however. | | The original [[media:Super Mario RPG Worlds Final Edition.jpg|Shogakukan guide]] considers Yo'ster Isle to be its own world, consistent with it having its own section on the overworld map, and bringing the total number of worlds to the standard eight; the [[media:Super Mario RPG Worlds Player's Guide.jpg|Player's Guide]] instead considers it part of the third world and throws off the remaining worlds. It would be one thing if the guide was consistent about it, but closer inspection shows that it's not. For example, it claims that Kinklink and Terrapin appear in World 1{{hover|*|which could be technically correct if you believe the first visit to Bowser's Keep isn't World 8}}, Frogog and {{hover|Shyper|actually Shyster according to stats and being grouped in enemies instead of bosses}} appear in World 2, Chow, Fink Flower, Shy Ranger, and the Double Punch appear in World 3, Stinger and the Chomp weapon appear in World 4, the Hand Gun and the Sticky Glove appear in World 5, Fautso appears in World 7, etc. This is probably where the "Drill Bit is listed in World 5" mistake comes from; it's actually referring to Shogakukan world order, which would place it in what the Player's Guide considers World 4, as suspected. Due to the Shogakukan guide's overall greater sense of consistency as it doesn't shuffle the world numbers, this proposal will formalize the decision to give precedence to the world numbers used in Shogakukan. The discrepancies between the Shogakukan guide and the Player's Guide will still be noted in the worlds' own articles, however. |
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| == Original characters third-party categorization == | | == Original characters third-party categorization == |
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| Square Enix owns pretty much every original character created for ''Super Mario RPG'' (including Geno and Mallow), so should we have them categorized under "Third-party characters" in their articles? And what about the original characters that belong to a first-party Nintendo species like Toadofsky (a Toad), Boshi (a Yoshi), etc.? [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 21:21, December 10, 2023 (EST) | | Square Enix owns pretty much every original character created for ''Super Mario RPG'' (including Geno and Mallow), so should we have them categorized under "Third-party characters" in their articles? And what about the original characters that belong to a first-party Nintendo species like Toadofsky, Boshi, etc.? [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 21:21, December 10, 2023 (EST) |
| :To me, it doesn't quite feel right to be categorizing Geno, Mallow, and their ilk under the same category as [[Sonic|Sonic the Hedgehog]]. The ''Super Mario RPG'' characters may be owned by Square Enix, but they were still created for the ''Super Mario'' franchise and have never appeared outside of ''Super Mario''-related media ([https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Geno other than an unsanctioned cameo]). [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 21:31, December 10, 2023 (EST) | | :To me, it doesn't quite feel right to be categorizing Geno, Mallow, and their ilk under the same category as [[Sonic|Sonic the Hedgehog]]. The ''Super Mario RPG'' characters may be owned by Square Enix, but they were still created for the ''Super Mario'' franchise and have never appeared outside of ''Super Mario''-related media ([https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Geno other than an unsanctioned cameo]). [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 21:31, December 10, 2023 (EST) |
| ::Nevertheless, Nintendo would still have to have permission from Square Enix to use the original ''Super Mario RPG'' characters in future ''Mario'' titles, thus explaining Geno's cameo in ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga''. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 22:01, December 10, 2023 (EST) | | ::Nevertheless, Nintendo would have to have permission from Square Enix to use the original ''Super Mario RPG'' characters in future ''Mario'' titles, thus explaining Geno's cameo in ''Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga''. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 22:01, December 10, 2023 (EST) |
| :::I know, but it still feels awkward to be be categorizing these characters as such. [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 22:08, December 10, 2023 (EST) | | :::I know, but it still feels awkward to be be categorizing these characters as such. [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 22:08, December 10, 2023 (EST) |
| ::::What about the original characters for ''Diddy Kong Racing'' (Krunch, Timber, Pipsy, etc.)? Following Microsoft's acquisition of Rare in 2002, Nintendo retains ownership to the characters directly linked to the ''Donkey Kong'' series (such as Diddy Kong and Krunch), but the rest of the ''Diddy Kong Racing'' cast (aside from Banjo, Conker and Tiptup since the former two were included before they star in their own series and the latter appearing in the ''Banjo-Kazooie'' series) is now under Microsoft's ownership, which explains [https://www.mariowiki.com/Fangamer their appearances as pins released by Fangamer]. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 00:32, December 12, 2023 (EST)
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| :::::That's...complicated. We should try to settle this with a proposal, and not a conversation here. [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 09:11, December 12, 2023 (EST)
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| ::::::While we're still on the subject on character ownerships, the reverse is true for Dr. Wright, a Nintendo-owned character from the SNES version of ''SimCity'' (owned by EA). Despite not creating or owning the series, the character of Dr. Wright is owned by Nintendo due to being exclusive to versions they developed, hence his inclusion in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 21:34, December 22, 2023 (EST)
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| :::::::Huh. Maybe we could create subcategories like "Category:Square Enix-owned characters", "Category:Rare-owned characters", etc.? Again, this is something we should settle with a proposal. [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 13:21, December 30, 2023 (EST)
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| == Names ==
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| So, as I understand, when a subject goes unnamed in one of its appearances, the name used in the section is the name that was last used at the time, which makes sense. However, this game has a lot of cases of regular Mario enemies having different names than usual, because reasons, and these names were never used again (except for I guess "Koopa Troop" and maaaaybe "Blaster"). Two such cases are "Sparky" (then known as Podoboo) and "Goombette" (then known as Micro-Goomba). Because of this, Podoboo is referred to as "Sparky" in the Super Mario 64 section, and Micro-Goomba is referred to as "Goombette" in the Super Mario 64, Super Princess Peach and Partners in Time sections. "Sparkies" went back to being called Podoboos in the Mario Party series, and Micro-Goombas were mentioned in Super Paper Mario before being renamed to Mini Goombas, so I think it would be better in these cases to use the names they had outside of Super Mario RPG. What do you think? [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 18:15, January 4, 2024 (EST)
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| :Part of this is also because the names just weren't as consistent around that era even outside of this game. [[Koopa Paratroopa#Super Mario World / Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2|Take]] [[Koopa Paratroopa#Yoshi's Safari|Sky]] [[Koopa Paratroopa#Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island / Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3|Troopa]] [[Blurp#Trivia|or]] [[Cheep Cheep#Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island / Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3|even]] [[Cheep Cheep#Super Mario 64 / Super Mario 64 DS|Goby]]. Personally, I would at least extend ''Super Mario RPG'' material to ''Super Mario 64'', considering they came out the same year. That said, unnamed appearances were always a bit of a grey area. The way we do things now is closest to that "most recent name at the time" rule of thumb, and it generally helps to keep things chronologically sorted, but sometimes, there are sources that come years later that can serve to fill gaps, like when the ''Super Mario 3D All-Stars'' [https://web.archive.org/web/20200903132220/https://supermario3dallstars.nintendo.com/super-mario-64/ website] names the game's (then-unnamed) Grand Goomba as a Big Goomba. Of course, that usually means retroactively applying the modern names before their time, which is a different philosophy at play here, and you sometimes get things like Mario Portal's Bull's-Eye Bomber Bill. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:51, January 4, 2024 (EST)
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| ==A Series of Its Own==
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| [https://www.nintendo.com/jp/character/mario/en/history/index.html Mario Portal] lists ''Super Mario RPG'' as its own series (edging out ''Mario + Rabbids'' and now ''Mario & Sonic'' if "Others" are filtered). I know it only consists of one entry and its remake, but should we follow suit? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:41, August 3, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I certainly don't think a "Super Mario RPG (series)" article should be created if this is the only original game; Mario + Rabbids has two games and Mario & Sonic had a few so there's clearly more justification for those. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 14:50, August 3, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::I feel like the only reason ''Super Mario RPG'' is included as a "series" on the Mario Portal is so that it is included somewhere. ''Mario RPG'' is a miscellaneous yet popular game in the ''Mario'' franchise so it, and its remake needed to be listed somewhere, but it isn't included in any other major series. Anyway, considering how there's technically one game in the "series", I don't think it really deserves a page. {{User|Starluxe}} 09:20, September 15, 2024 (GMT)
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| == Supposed Mario Movie Reference ==
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| In the "References in Later Media section", there is a statement made during the part referring to the Mario Movie that notes "during the Rainbow Road chase scene, the boss battle theme appears." I don't want to jump the gun, which is why I'm bringing it up here, but I'm pretty sure that this isn't factual. I have found no other source to back this up, and after looking through the tracks myself, the closest thing I could find was a small riff in the track "Blue Shelled" made by the string section at 0:15, which vaguely resembles the beginning of "Fight Against a Somewhat Stronger Monster", though the musical intervals do not seem to match up. Unless there is something that I'm completely missing (I assumed whoever made that statement was referring to FAASSM and wasn't listening for the Weapon Theme, for example), I'm pretty sure that this is a very random inaccuracy that has remained under the radar for a while. And if it's not, it does seem very vague with it's wording. Other bullet points in the same section go out of their way to list "Hello, Happy Kingdom" by name, for example.
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| I do apologize if I'm just completely wrong here, but trying to track down this supposed reference has been driving me crazy for the past couple of days, and I want to know if it's all a wild goose chase. {{unsigned|SlurpyTheDog}}
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| :Yeah, I'm not hearing it, either. It was added by a user with no elaboration or proof whatsoever (and the references would usually be noted [[The Super Mario Bros. Movie (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack)|here]] as well), so I'll remove it. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 21:59, October 30, 2024 (EDT)
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