Editing Talk:Super Mario Bros. Wonder
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== PEGI rating == | == PEGI rating == | ||
PEGI 7 rating is confirmed in this game, I saw this in Nintendo eShop page. --[[User:PetrPro|<span style="font-family:emulogic;color:#0070ff">PetrPro</span>]] ([[User talk:PetrPro|talk]]) 11:56, June 21, 2023 (EDT) | PEGI 7 rating is confirmed in this game, I saw this in Nintendo eShop page. --[[User:PetrPro|<span style="font-family:emulogic;color:#0070ff">PetrPro</span>]] ([[User talk:PetrPro|talk]]) 11:56, June 21, 2023 (EDT) | ||
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</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
Should we consider Daisy's pose in Super Mario Bros. Wonder is the same pose or being the pose looks different? --[[User:ExoRosalina|<span style="font- | Should we consider Daisy's pose in Super Mario Bros. Wonder is the same pose or being the pose looks different? --[[User:ExoRosalina|<span style="font-family:emulogic;color:#0070ff">ExoRosalina</span>]] ([[User talk:ExoRosalina|talk]]) 10:45, June 21, 2023 (PHT) | ||
family:emulogic;color:#0070ff">ExoRosalina</span>]] ([[User talk:ExoRosalina|talk]]) 10:45, June 21, 2023 (PHT) | |||
:Looks like the same pose. --[[File:PM Tweester Sprite.png|30px]] It's [[User: Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]]! 13:03, June 24, 2023 (EDT) | :Looks like the same pose. --[[File:PM Tweester Sprite.png|30px]] It's [[User: Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]]! 13:03, June 24, 2023 (EDT) | ||
== Bowser Jr. Speculation == | == Bowser Jr. Speculation == | ||
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::::hm, interesting, both articles were made by the same guy. Either Smogrin is fake or Trompette and Swirlypod is official. I will talk to others about this. {{User:BetterDonutGalaxy/sig}} 18:34, November 2, 2023 (EDT) | ::::hm, interesting, both articles were made by the same guy. Either Smogrin is fake or Trompette and Swirlypod is official. I will talk to others about this. {{User:BetterDonutGalaxy/sig}} 18:34, November 2, 2023 (EDT) | ||
:::::Just remember that the reason for all this is because the age of print guides is over. (I am so sick of being the only one who knows this) [[Special:Contributions/67.181.156.89|67.181.156.89]] 19:13, November 2, 2023 (EDT) | :::::Just remember that the reason for all this is because the age of print guides is over. (I am so sick of being the only one who knows this) [[Special:Contributions/67.181.156.89|67.181.156.89]] 19:13, November 2, 2023 (EDT) | ||
::::::Well it wasn't much better with print guides. [[Cheep Cheep (bird)]] comes to vivid mind. Same for [[ | ::::::Well it wasn't much better with print guides. [[Cheep Cheep (bird)]] comes to vivid mind. Same for [[Swoopin' Stu]]. These games ought to have bestiaries as a legal requirement. Call your representative. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:10, November 4, 2023 (EDT) | ||
:::::::If you'll pardon the history lesson, Prima guides were bad during the time Nintendo Power made their own. But after the latter ended in 2006, that's when Nintendo started to crack the whip on Prima when it came to quality. It was all on Prima from that point, and their guides were that important. [[Special:Contributions/67.181.156.89|67.181.156.89]] 09:53, November 8, 2023 (EST) | :::::::If you'll pardon the history lesson, Prima guides were bad during the time Nintendo Power made their own. But after the latter ended in 2006, that's when Nintendo started to crack the whip on Prima when it came to quality. It was all on Prima from that point, and their guides were that important. [[Special:Contributions/67.181.156.89|67.181.156.89]] 09:53, November 8, 2023 (EST) | ||
::::::::In my (I guess) controversial opinion, Prima guides were almost always better than Nintendo Power guides when both were officially published concurrently in the 2000's, which probably contributed to the downfall of the latter, but that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't be surprised if the Game Informer writer just ignores the question, because hardly anyone wants to be outed as making things up. So until proven otherwise, the names are taken to be conjectural, which is an article title's last resort. Though, I have a question of my own: since these names are getting popularized anyway, would creating redirects be okay? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:55, November 8, 2023 (EST) | ::::::::In my (I guess) controversial opinion, Prima guides were almost always better than Nintendo Power guides when both were officially published concurrently in the 2000's, which probably contributed to the downfall of the latter, but that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't be surprised if the Game Informer writer just ignores the question, because hardly anyone wants to be outed as making things up. So until proven otherwise, the names are taken to be conjectural, which is an article title's last resort. Though, I have a question of my own: since these names are getting popularized anyway, would creating redirects be okay? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:55, November 8, 2023 (EST) | ||
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:The conjectural name would only make sense for similar variants of the same enemy, for example "Bone Trottin' Piranha Plant" or "Big Trottin' Piranha Plant", since they are variants of [[Trottin' Piranha Plant]].--[[User:Alternis|Alternis]] ([[User talk:Alternis|talk]]) 12:06, November 3, 2023 (EDT) | :The conjectural name would only make sense for similar variants of the same enemy, for example "Bone Trottin' Piranha Plant" or "Big Trottin' Piranha Plant", since they are variants of [[Trottin' Piranha Plant]].--[[User:Alternis|Alternis]] ([[User talk:Alternis|talk]]) 12:06, November 3, 2023 (EDT) | ||
== Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins == | == Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins == | ||
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==Standardize formatting of Super Mario Bros. Wonder course names== | ==Standardize formatting of Super Mario Bros. Wonder course names== | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|2-0-11-0|Consider supertitles to be part of the course name and do not represent line breaks}} | ||
When we started getting wiki article material for this game, whoever first wrote the course names down had to take an arbitrary decision of how to format them. Now that the game is out, I think it's worth reanalyzing it and see what the consensus actually is. There are two interlinked proposals here: | When we started getting wiki article material for this game, whoever first wrote the course names down had to take an arbitrary decision of how to format them. Now that the game is out, I think it's worth reanalyzing it and see what the consensus actually is. There are two interlinked proposals here: | ||
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'''The problem:''' Stages like [[The Final Test Wonder Gauntlet]] are rendered in-game as {{Fake link|The Final Test[line break]Wonder Gauntlet}}, splitting both halves of the name into two strings. The current standard for transliterating these doesn't properly capture this, so we have to come up with a way to represent a line break without using an actual line break. | '''The problem:''' Stages like [[The Final Test Wonder Gauntlet]] are rendered in-game as {{Fake link|The Final Test[line break]Wonder Gauntlet}}, splitting both halves of the name into two strings. The current standard for transliterating these doesn't properly capture this, so we have to come up with a way to represent a line break without using an actual line break. | ||
'''My solution:''' I've seen a few pages write them with a colon (Badge Challenge: [[ | '''My solution:''' I've seen a few pages write them with a colon (Badge Challenge: [[Parachute Cap I]]), but I don't think that's a good idea because there are actual stages with a colon in their name, such as [[The Midway Trial: Hop to It]]. Personally, I propose an em dash, rendering the name as {{Fake link|The Final Test — Wonder Gauntlet}}. Stages like Badge Challenges and KO Arenas also have a line break, but use a different color for their supertitle. If the bottom proposal passes, the course supertitles would also have an em dash after them. | ||
There might be other, better solutions for how to render this, so please leave them below to add them to the proposal. | There might be other, better solutions for how to render this, so please leave them below to add them to the proposal. | ||
;Consider supertitles part of the course name | ;Consider supertitles part of the course name | ||
Should stages like [[ | Should stages like [[Wall-Climb Jump I]] and [[Cloud Cover]] actually be named {{Fake link|Badge Challenge Wall-Climb Jump I}} and {{Fake link|Break Time! Cloud Cover}}? The current standard is that they're not part of the name, but 1) they're never displayed without the supertitle in-game, and 2) I believe it's more informative to have them on the article name. If the other proposal also passes, there would also be an em dash separating the supertitle from the course name. | ||
'''Proposer''': {{User|EvieMaybe}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|EvieMaybe}}<br> | ||
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===Do not represent line breaks with em dashes, but consider supertitles part of the course name=== | ===Do not represent line breaks with em dashes, but consider supertitles part of the course name=== | ||
#{{user|Rodmjorgeh}} This is the Nintendo way, and considering this is a wiki that's trying to be as official as possible I think this is the best route. The dash is not present anywhere and while it does look nicer, it proposes the wrong name and creates incorrect assumptions just like the colon, just not as much of a problem. It's also like this in MSBT files - files that hold the text used in the game. Not only that, but when you place a [[Standee]] in a supertitled course (let's say, Badge Challenge [[ | #{{user|Rodmjorgeh}} This is the Nintendo way, and considering this is a wiki that's trying to be as official as possible I think this is the best route. The dash is not present anywhere and while it does look nicer, it proposes the wrong name and creates incorrect assumptions just like the colon, just not as much of a problem. It's also like this in MSBT files - files that hold the text used in the game. Not only that, but when you place a [[Standee]] in a supertitled course (let's say, Badge Challenge [[Parachute Cap I]]) and someone uses it, it does say the whole thing, but without line breaks and without dashes: "''The standee that was placed in the course '''Badge Challenge Parachute Cap I''' has been used.''". Nintendo way is best way for sure | ||
#{{user|MarioComix}} Per Rodmjorgeh. | #{{user|MarioComix}} Per Rodmjorgeh. | ||
#{{user|Jdtendo}} Per Rodmjorgeh. Moreover, several course names span over two lines whilst both lines are clearly not supposed to be separated ("Welcome to the⏎Flower Kingdom!"), or it is ambiguous whether both lines should be separated ("Pipe-Rock Plateau⏎Palace"). Therefore, choosing when replacing the line break with a dash or not would be arbitrary. | #{{user|Jdtendo}} Per Rodmjorgeh. Moreover, several course names span over two lines whilst both lines are clearly not supposed to be separated ("Welcome to the⏎Flower Kingdom!"), or it is ambiguous whether both lines should be separated ("Pipe-Rock Plateau⏎Palace"). Therefore, choosing when replacing the line break with a dash or not would be arbitrary. | ||
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#{{User|Swallow}} Per all | #{{User|Swallow}} Per all | ||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all. | #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all. | ||
#{{User|Arend}} I was always supportive of using the courses' full titles, but I was wondering how we should represent the supertitles (since {{Fake link|Wiggler Race Mountaineering!}} and {{Fake link|KO Arena Fungi Funk}} don't convey the message that "Wiggler Race" and "KO Arena" are supposed to be titles nearly as well as {{Fake link|Wiggler Race: Mountaineering!}} and {{Fake link|KO Arena: Fungi Funk}}). But Rodmjorgeh does bring up a good point that the messages for Standees don't use anything to make those supertitles stand out either, so it's probably for the best that we'd do the same. Perhaps we can use color link templates and the DISPLAYTITLE magic word to give the supertitles a different color like the actual game does? | #{{User|Arend}} I was always supportive of using the courses' full titles, but I was wondering how we should represent the supertitles (since {{Fake link|Wiggler Race Mountaineering!}} and {{Fake link|KO Arena Fungi Funk}} don't convey the message that "Wiggler Race" and "KO Arena" are supposed to be titles nearly as well as {{Fake link|Wiggler Race: Mountaineering!}} and {{Fake link|KO Arena: Fungi Funk}}). But Rodmjorgeh does bring up a good point that the messages for Standees don't use anything to make those supertitles stand out either, so it's probably for the best that we'd do the same. Perhaps we can use color-link templates and the DISPLAYTITLE magic word to give the supertitles a different color like the actual game does? | ||
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per Rodmjorgeh--as far as Nintendo's concerned, those are the full titles, and we probably don't need em dashes. Especially since most QWERTY keyboards don't have those inherently, so that'd make them a nightmare to search for. ;P | #{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per Rodmjorgeh--as far as Nintendo's concerned, those are the full titles, and we probably don't need em dashes. Especially since most QWERTY keyboards don't have those inherently, so that'd make them a nightmare to search for. ;P | ||
#{{User|Biggestman}} Per Rodmjorgeh, this is the only logical option in my eyes | #{{User|Biggestman}} Per Rodmjorgeh, this is the only logical option in my eyes | ||
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the only thing I'll say about this is that I wish who made the render was more clear if it isnt already {{User:BetterDonutGalaxy/sig}} 18:32, November 12, 2023 (EST) | the only thing I'll say about this is that I wish who made the render was more clear if it isnt already {{User:BetterDonutGalaxy/sig}} 18:32, November 12, 2023 (EST) | ||
:As the creator of many of these renders, I try to make it as clear as possible. These renders are not used in the main game article's enemy table (or at least I don't want this) and are found in the gallery section listed alongside other custom renders (pictures of unposed models are also custom renders). I've since tagged these renders as custom in the infoboxes. If we want to rely on screenshots on the infoboxes, that's fine. {{User:Mario/sig}} 21:23, November 18, 2023 (EST) | :As the creator of many of these renders, I try to make it as clear as possible. These renders are not used in the main game article's enemy table (or at least I don't want this) and are found in the gallery section listed alongside other custom renders (pictures of unposed models are also custom renders). I've since tagged these renders as custom in the infoboxes. If we want to rely on screenshots on the infoboxes, that's fine. {{User:Mario/sig}} 21:23, November 18, 2023 (EST) | ||
== Hi! == | |||
Can you upload Snootle, Rrrumba, Chin-Anago, Erin (brown and purple), Gnawsher, Fire Spike, Smogrin, HouHou, JumpToge, Konk (blue and yellow), Maw-Maw, MechakoopaMK2, Wubba, Meramera, Outmaway, Movingdoor, Mumsie, Pokipede, Raargh, Rolla Koopa, Seeker Bullet Bill, Shova, Skedaddler, Slidon, Smackerel, Sproing, Taily, Tsubochan, Uminoko, and Wuuba in the custom render? So yeah! [[User:82.76.149.133|82.76.149.133]] ([[User talk:82.76.149.133|talk]]) 21:28 EET Saturday 18 November 2023 | |||
== Objects == | == Objects == | ||
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==Japanese Enemy Names== | ==Japanese Enemy Names== | ||
So, the official Japanese strategy guide has been released, and it seems like the official names are out there now. I can't verify most of these 100%, but they seem accurate so I figure I should post them here for the enemies that only use internal names. Some of these were already added to articles, but I'll post them again just for posterity's sake. A lot of them are the same as the internal filenames, but some are different. | So, the official Japanese strategy guide has been released, and it seems like the official names are out there now. I can't verify most of these 100%, but they seem accurate so I figure I should post them here for the enemies that only use internal names. Some of these were already added to articles, but I'll post them again just for posterity's sake. A lot of them are the same as the internal filenames, but some are different. | ||
* [[ | * [[Erin]] = エリン (''Erin'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Snail]] = マイマイ (''Maimai'') | ||
* [[Smogrin]] = モクモクモ (''Mokumokumo'') | * [[Smogrin]] = モクモクモ (''Mokumokumo'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Uminoko]] = スッポコ (''Suppoko'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Slidon]] = スライドン (''Suraidon'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Chin Anago]] = シウミウ (''Shiumiu'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Rumble]] = ランブル (''Ranburu'', "Rumble") | ||
* [[ | * [[Morocon]] = モロコン (''Morokon'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Takebo]] = タケボー (''Takebō'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Mecha Koopa Mk 2]] = ホバーメカクッパ (''Hobā Mekakuppa'', "Hover Mechakoopa") | ||
* Metallic Takebo variant = メタルタケボー (''Metaru Takebō'', "Metal Takebo") | * Metallic Takebo variant = メタルタケボー (''Metaru Takebō'', "Metal Takebo") | ||
* [[ | * [[Houhou]] = ホウホウ (''Hōhō'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Meramera]] = ボーボー (''Bōbō'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Jump Toge]] = ビリピョン (''Biripyon'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Hakandoru]] = ハコンドル (''Hakondoru'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Moving Door]] = トビー (''Tobī'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Hanabihei]] = ハナビへい (''Hanabi-Hei'') | ||
* [[Fire Spike]] = ファイアガボン (''Faia Gabon'', "Fire Spike") | * [[Fire Spike]] = ファイアガボン (''Faia Gabon'', "Fire Spike") | ||
* [[ | * [[Tsubochan]] = ツボチャン (''Tsubochan'') | ||
* [[ | * [[Join Killer]] = 連結サーチキラー (''Renketsu Sāchi Kirā'', "Linking Bulls-Eye Bill") | ||
Can't verify these names 100% as they're second-hand, but from what I can tell they're likely the actual ones. Hopefully we'll get official English names for some of these before too long. [[User:BubbleRevolution|BubbleRevolution]] ([[User talk:BubbleRevolution|talk]]) 21:54, January 1, 2024 (EST) | Can't verify these names 100% as they're second-hand, but from what I can tell they're likely the actual ones. Hopefully we'll get official English names for some of these before too long. [[User:BubbleRevolution|BubbleRevolution]] ([[User talk:BubbleRevolution|talk]]) 21:54, January 1, 2024 (EST) | ||
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I acquired the official Japanese strategy guide and I can confirm that all of the names listed by BubbleRevolution are correct. For completeness, here are the remaining official Japanese names from the enemy list: | I acquired the official Japanese strategy guide and I can confirm that all of the names listed by BubbleRevolution are correct. For completeness, here are the remaining official Japanese names from the enemy list: | ||
* Big Snail = こでかマイマイ (''Kodeka Maimai'', "Small Big Snail") | |||
* Medium-sized Smogrin = こでかモクモクモ (''Kodeka Mokumokumo'', "Small Big Smogrin") | |||
* Big Snootle = でかコロブー (''Deka Korobū'') | |||
* Big Seeker Bullet Bill = でかチェイスキラー (''Deka Cheisu Kirā'') | |||
* Big Smogrin = でかモクモクモ (''Deka Mokumokumo'') | |||
* Big Trottin' Piranha Plant = でかランランパックン (''Deka Ranran Pakkun'') | |||
* Bloomp pump = ブースケ砲台 (''Būsuke Hōdai'', "Bloomp Artillery") | |||
* Bone Trottin' Piranha Plant = ランランほねパックン (''Ranran Hone Pakkun'', "Trottin' Bone Piranha") | |||
* Dark Koopa Troopa = 影ノコノコ (''Kage Nokonoko'', "Shadow Koopa Troopa") | |||
* Dark Mario = 影マリオ (''Kage Mario'', "Shadow Mario") | |||
* Wonder Anglefish = ワンダーエイミー (''Wandā Eimī'') | |||
* Wonder Gnawsher = ワンダーガシガシ (''Wandā Gashigashi'') | |||
* Wonder Hoppo = ワンダーコロンポリン (''Wandā Koronporin'') | |||
* Wonder Bulrush Herd = ワンダートッシン群 (''Wandā Tosshin Gun'') | |||
* Wonder Smackerel = ワンダーハイデン (''Wandā Haiden'') | |||
* Wonder Bloomp = ワンダーブースケ (''Wandā Būsuke'') | |||
* Expert (orange Hoppycat) = ワンダーホッピン (''Wandā Hoppin'', "Wonder Hoppycat") | |||
* Wonder Missile Meg = ワンダーロングキラー (''Wandā Rongu Kirā'') | |||
Below are unofficial names created for the strategy guide because no official name exists: | Below are unofficial names created for the strategy guide because no official name exists: | ||
* Snail shell = マイマイの殻 (''Maimai no kara'') | * Snail shell = マイマイの殻 (''Maimai no kara'') | ||
* Giant Konk (during a Wonder Effect) = 巨大なゴッツン (''Kyodai na Gottsun'') | * Giant Konk (during a Wonder Effect) = 巨大なゴッツン (''Kyodai na Gottsun'') | ||
* Giant Hoppycat (during a Wonder Effect) = 巨大なホッピン (''Kyodai na Hoppin'') | * Giant Hoppycat (during a Wonder Effect) = 巨大なホッピン (''Kyodai na Hoppin'') | ||
{{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 14:42, January 2, 2024 (EST) | |||
{{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 14:42, January 2, 2024 (EST | |||
:You should get the other official guide (かんぺき攻略本 ''Kanpeki Kouryuakubon'' by Kadokawa) as well to see if there are any differences. One that I noticed is that ''Kodeka Kakiboh''/"Big Goombrat" is not listed in Nindori guide. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 07:08, January 7, 2024 (EST) | :You should get the other official guide (かんぺき攻略本 ''Kanpeki Kouryuakubon'' by Kadokawa) as well to see if there are any differences. One that I noticed is that ''Kodeka Kakiboh''/"Big Goombrat" is not listed in Nindori guide. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 07:08, January 7, 2024 (EST) | ||
==A note on the Game Informer source== | ==A note on the Game Informer source== | ||
{{talk}} | |||
As the person who emailed Brian Shea, I should say I only asked about the names "Trompette" and "Swirlypod" and those are the only two he said were officialy given to him by Nintendo. I had to undo a bunch of edits citing that email response I recieved because any other name used is unconfirmed (such as the Wonder Effect variants and larger versions of enemies) and may very well just be conjectural. As noted with [[Wow Bud]], some of the names used in said article are merely conjectural, so everything in it shouldn't be treated as an official Nintendo-sanctioned name apart from the two enemies I mentioned. [[User:BubbleRevolution|BubbleRevolution]] ([[User talk:BubbleRevolution|talk]]) 19:33, January 9, 2024 (EST) | As the person who emailed Brian Shea, I should say I only asked about the names "Trompette" and "Swirlypod" and those are the only two he said were officialy given to him by Nintendo. I had to undo a bunch of edits citing that email response I recieved because any other name used is unconfirmed (such as the Wonder Effect variants and larger versions of enemies) and may very well just be conjectural. As noted with [[Wow Bud]], some of the names used in said article are merely conjectural, so everything in it shouldn't be treated as an official Nintendo-sanctioned name apart from the two enemies I mentioned. [[User:BubbleRevolution|BubbleRevolution]] ([[User talk:BubbleRevolution|talk]]) 19:33, January 9, 2024 (EST) | ||
:Fair enough, the scope of the response was misunderstood, but hold the phone - the Game Informer piece got "Downpour Cloud" before it was mentioned in this very article, and that's in the same boat as [[Talk:Marimba Block|Marimba Block]], where it has a localized internal string. In other words, it first appeared in Game Informer before it got sourced from the game. That alone makes it pretty clear there's more to this than Trompette and Swirlypod. If he's open to questions, why not reask for clarification on the rest of the names (or, better yet, if he'd be willing to share the list of Nintendo-approved names)? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:29, January 11, 2024 (EST) | :Fair enough, the scope of the response was misunderstood, but hold the phone - the Game Informer piece got "Downpour Cloud" before it was mentioned in this very article, and that's in the same boat as [[Talk:Marimba Block|Marimba Block]], where it has a localized internal string. In other words, it first appeared in Game Informer before it got sourced from the game. That alone makes it pretty clear there's more to this than Trompette and Swirlypod. If he's open to questions, why not reask for clarification on the rest of the names (or, better yet, if he'd be willing to share the list of Nintendo-approved names)? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:29, January 11, 2024 (EST) | ||
== Japanese object and item names == | == Japanese object and item names == | ||
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That list does not include names that are marked as unofficial, are known through another source (e.g., [[Lifting Shabon]]), or for which an official English name already exists. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 05:47, January 10, 2024 (EST) | That list does not include names that are marked as unofficial, are known through another source (e.g., [[Lifting Shabon]]), or for which an official English name already exists. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 05:47, January 10, 2024 (EST) | ||
