Editing Talk:Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia

==Release==
Did this book ever even release in the west (or just not in Europe)? all of its pre-orders were cancelled, and it is not available anywhere. all I can find is the release dates that online shopping sites use, being either ‘TBA’ or Sept 14 like the article states for the German version. I'm really wondering if it even released, because I also haven't seen anyone who managed to get one {{User:Qyzxf/sig}}
:Sadly, [http://nintendoeverything.com/amazon-uk-cancelling-super-mario-bros-encyclopedia-pre-orders/ since May have the preorders for the Encycloedia been canceled], but Dark Horse never issued a press release on the matter, from what we know. Actually, the Encyclopedia cannot even be found at all on their site. The German translation is being handled by another company, TOKYOPOP, who instead created [http://tokyopop.de/programm-april-bis-juli-2017/super-mario-bros-enzyklopadie-die-ersten-30-jahre/ a page for the book], [http://tokyopop.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/mario-enzyklopaedie-cover-224x300.jpg a preliminary translated cover] and even recently revealed the updated release date, [http://tokyopop.de/vorschau/veroffentlichungen-am-14-september-2017/ which is September 14]. If everything goes well, at least that version will be released, but there's little hope for the English translation right now.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:14, 28 June 2017 (EDT)
::Soo, yes. shouldn't this be noted on the article too somewhere? {{User:Qyzxf/sig}}
:::At the moment, nothing was officially stated by Dark Horse, we only have the news about the preorders being canceled. This is why I added the ''supposedly'' term. I might rework that part later, though.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:47, 29 June 2017 (EDT)

== Customer support query ==

I contacted the Nintendo UK customer support email about the UK and US release dates for Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. and this was their response; "We regret to inform you that Nintendo has no official announcement about your query regarding the Super Mario Bros encyclopedia, at this time." --[[User:Hiccup|Hiccup]] ([[User talk:Hiccup|talk]]) 06:11, 21 July 2017 (EDT)
:Indeed, Nintendo UK is not publishing the English translation of the book, Dark Horse Comics was supposed to, the only role of Nintendo I can think of is ensuring that the translation is conforming to their guidelines. They might have a veto power and they might propose when it's best to publish it, but ultimately it's the publisher that publish it and then Nintendo can acknowledge and even promote the book if it is published. In that sense, it will be interesting to see how Nintendo Deutschland will move with respect to the German translation.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:08, 21 July 2017 (EDT)
::I have contacted Dark Horse Comics and they have said they do plan to release but they don't have a date. --[[User:Hiccup|Hiccup]] ([[User talk:Hiccup|talk]]) 13:41, 21 July 2017 (EDT)
:::Good to know, thanks for contacting them. Let's hope that they'll manage to release it.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:10, 21 July 2017 (EDT)

==Conflicting enemy names==
So, the book came out today in English, and I managed to get a copy, but some of the names for enemies conflict with older sources. For example, [[Sentry Beam]] is labeled as "Laser Pod" (its Japanese name), while [[Jump Beamer]] is erroneously referred to as "Sentry Beam", like it used to be here on the wiki ("Sentry Beam" has only been used to refer to the flying robots, not ever to the spring-like enemies, it being named such on here was an error). What should we do about this? I feel like the book shouldn't be used as the end-all-be-all for names, save for those without a proper English name given elsewhere, since it seems Dark Horse made a few mistakes, like with the Zelda enemies Daira and Zazak in the Zelda book they previously released. [[User:BubbleRevolution|BubbleRevolution]] ([[User talk:BubbleRevolution|talk]]) 17:53, 23 October 2018 (EDT)
:[[MarioWiki:Proposals#Citing_the_Super_Mario_Encyclopedia|And that's exactly why I made a proposal about it]]. I didn't even notice those examples, but there are plenty more. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 17:54, 23 October 2018 (EDT)

== Names ==

Does it also applies on the [[Skull Box]]? Is it also called Skull Box? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:38, 25 October 2018 (EDT)

==Title==
Since the English version of ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' has effectively been [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|disowned]], shouldn't the article be moved back to ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.''? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:57, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
:Absolutely not. Disowning the English version doesn't mean that there are versions in other languages that we can cite, such as Spanish and French, which also call this ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia''. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 09:28, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
::For reference, the Japanese and Spanish versions are ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' and the German and French versions are ''Super Mario (Bros.) Encyclopedia'', and currently the Japanese version is the one that's most cited on the wiki. If we're not using it for English-language citations, then it doesn't make much sense to keep the latter name in my opinion. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:42, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
:::That still doesn't sound like a reason ''by itself'' to move this page back to its original name. If we have an official English name, then from what I can infer by [[MarioWiki:Naming#English and non-English sources|the policy]], that's that, period. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 09:43, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
::::The way I see it, changing the title back would essentially be per the proposal. Also, I'm not suggesting we move the article to ''Super Mario Bros. Hyakka: Nintendo Kōshiki Guide Book'' - the Japanese cover already has an English title on it, which is why we didn't use the language template before the move. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:55, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
:::::The proposal was about using the book in citations, not completely expunging it from existence. We'd be doing a disservice to change that. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 10:42, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
::::::By that, I mean the proposal was primarily over article names. We wouldn't be expunging it since it wouldn't affect the section that specifically draws attention to the English localization. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:00, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
:::::::The way I see it, article names are a byproduct of citations, but are technically distinct from them. At the very least, this is the one place where English readers looking for information on this book would benefit from keeping things as they are (yes, redirects, but considering the name doesn't appear until it's fully typed out in the search bar, it's not that satisfying to me). {{unsigned|Time Turner}}
::::::::I agree with Time Turner on that accord. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 11:23, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::In any case, according to both the Spanish and {{media link|ESMB German page 256.png|German translations}}, the official international name of the book is ''[Nintendo Official Guide Book] Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia 30th Anniversary 1985-2015'', so the current title is in accordance to said international name (although it is shortened). At best, we might consider using the full international name and then using the shortened version as a redirect, I'm not sure if that would be overkill, though.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:11, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
::::::::::It seems silly and outside the scope of the proposal to not use the English name for the book. It's still a book that exists, we're just not using any of the information in it. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:26, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::::Actually, I agree with Time Turner's second comment. Leaving this title as-is would appear logical. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:59, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

== English version ==

If there is a revised version, if it names the following enemies by their internal filenames: [[Pattan]], [[Hatopop]], [[Jump Beamer]], [[Ring Beamer]], [[Ball Beamer]] [[Petari]], [[Ocean Small Turtle]] and [[Skeletal Fish Guard]] would it still make them copied from the wiki? Because the "english" internal filenames are actually given by the Japanese Nintendo companies. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:18, 2 December 2018 (EST)
:In that case, there's no need to cite the Encyclopedia in the first place, as those names are derived from internal filenames. In any case, Hatopops are not covered by the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:43, 2 December 2018 (EST)
@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 == Names ==
-{{talk}}
 Does it also applies on the [[Skull Box]]? Is it also called Skull Box? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:38, 25 October 2018 (EDT)
-:The Italian version is ''Scatola Teschio'', a translation of Skull Box. This can mean two things. One, we missed Skull Box from an official source. [[Torpedo Base]] started off as Skull Box back in 2008 when it was first created. Since then, no editor has found it in an official source. Two, all language versions of the encyclopedia are suspect and have been tainted by plagiarizing fan wikis like this. If the latter is true, then we will have to exclude those versions as [[MarioWiki:Citations|acceptable citations]].--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 16:25, June 5, 2022 (EDT)
-::Our Italian affiliate found some problems with their translations of the book, but at the very least someone checked through the French and German versions of the book and didn't find any red flags. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 16:38, June 5, 2022 (EDT)
-:::I'm trying to think of how the Italian version got ''Scatola Teschio''. First, the Italian version used an official source in Italian that may or may not have been translated from English. Or "Skull Box" is a made-up name by the wiki article's creator that the Italian version copied and translated. Or "Skull Box" is not a made-up name which the first editor neglected to cite and all other editors failed to find an official source. Or the first editor found the name in an official non-English source and translated it into English. Of these, I find the second possibility most likely and the last one least likely.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 00:33, January 1, 2023 (EST)
-::::It could also -possibly- be a coincidence, depending on the other translations used. On that note, we never figured out the source for German "Sternentasche" (Starbag). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:07, January 4, 2023 (EST)
-::::Adding that PiNGOUiN thinks the French version is compromised too (see edits on the Electro-Koopa King page - though the Italian version frankly seems suspect as well). I haven't looked into the book's other translations, so I can't really say much other than most of them predated the English release and I doubt Dark Horse shared notes with the other publishers. Have the other translators ever been asked about it? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:09, October 22, 2024 (EDT)
 ==Title==
-Since the English version of ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' has effectively been [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|disowned]], shouldn't the article be moved back to ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.''? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:57, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
+Since the English version of ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' has effectively been [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|disowned]], shouldn't the article be moved back to ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.''? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:57, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
 :Absolutely not. Disowning the English version doesn't mean that there are versions in other languages that we can cite, such as Spanish and French, which also call this ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia''. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 09:28, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
 ::For reference, the Japanese and Spanish versions are ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' and the German and French versions are ''Super Mario (Bros.) Encyclopedia'', and currently the Japanese version is the one that's most cited on the wiki. If we're not using it for English-language citations, then it doesn't make much sense to keep the latter name in my opinion. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:42, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
@@ Line 35: / Line 30: @@
 :::::::The way I see it, article names are a byproduct of citations, but are technically distinct from them. At the very least, this is the one place where English readers looking for information on this book would benefit from keeping things as they are (yes, redirects, but considering the name doesn't appear until it's fully typed out in the search bar, it's not that satisfying to me). {{unsigned|Time Turner}}
 ::::::::I agree with Time Turner on that accord. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 11:23, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::In any case, according to both the Spanish and {{file link|ESMB German page 256.png|German translations}}, the official international name of the book is ''[Nintendo Official Guide Book] Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia 30th Anniversary 1985-2015'', so the current title is in accordance to said international name (although it is shortened). At best, we might consider using the full international name and then using the shortened version as a redirect, I'm not sure if that would be overkill, though.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:11, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
+:::::::::In any case, according to both the Spanish and {{media link|ESMB German page 256.png|German translations}}, the official international name of the book is ''[Nintendo Official Guide Book] Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia 30th Anniversary 1985-2015'', so the current title is in accordance to said international name (although it is shortened). At best, we might consider using the full international name and then using the shortened version as a redirect, I'm not sure if that would be overkill, though.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:11, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
 ::::::::::It seems silly and outside the scope of the proposal to not use the English name for the book. It's still a book that exists, we're just not using any of the information in it. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:26, 31 October 2018 (EDT)
 :::::::::::Actually, I agree with Time Turner's second comment. Leaving this title as-is would appear logical. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:59, 1 November 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::::Just adding a note here since it was missed earlier: "Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros." is indeed listed as a name for the book in the English version of the credits page. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:07, January 4, 2023 (EST)
 == English version ==
@@ Line 44: / Line 38: @@
 If there is a revised version, if it names the following enemies by their internal filenames: [[Pattan]], [[Hatopop]], [[Jump Beamer]], [[Ring Beamer]], [[Ball Beamer]] [[Petari]], [[Ocean Small Turtle]] and [[Skeletal Fish Guard]] would it still make them copied from the wiki? Because the "english" internal filenames are actually given by the Japanese Nintendo companies. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:18, 2 December 2018 (EST)
 :In that case, there's no need to cite the Encyclopedia in the first place, as those names are derived from internal filenames. In any case, Hatopops are not covered by the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:43, 2 December 2018 (EST)
-::I was actually asking if that would still make it ''plagiarize'' the wiki, as those "english" names are actually given by Nintendo, and not Nintendo of America. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:25, 4 December 2018 (EST)
-:::Using those names isn't plagiarism, it was the use of fan-made names or names in other languages originating from wikis that strongly indicated plagiarism happening.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:56, 4 December 2018 (EST)
-== List of ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' mistakes and names from the Super Mario Wiki ==
-A short while ago, I was asked to add my findings from the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|proposal]] to this article. I am maintaining a personal list [[User:LinkTheLefty/List of Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia mistakes and names from the Super Mario Wiki|here]]. The goal may be to simply have an expanded list out there, or a version of it might be incorporated as a section of this article. If there is interest in the latter, feel free to add any suggestions on what form it should take in the article. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:00, 1 March 2019 (EST)
-== Error Section ==
-I recently received a copy of this book, and since there is an error section on this page currently under construction, I thought I might bring up an error I noticed in the SMG2 section, where the titles about Rosalina and the Message Board got jumbled up.
-[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/548623495924547585/564506104604655617/image0.jpg]
-I don't know if this is what we're looking for or not, but... might as well bring it forwards.
-Another ''error'' I found, albeit one that more conceptual, is that Rosalina, who should logically be hundreds, if not thousands, of years old, was labelled as young, which seems rather bizarre to me, but... I can see that this one probably doesn't count.
-[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/548623495924547585/564506875329249290/image0.jpg]
-Anyway, hopefully this helps! [[User:LuckyEmile|LuckyEmile]] ([[User talk:LuckyEmile|talk]]) 18:03, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
-:I got a copy of this book and in the SML section it labeled [[Biokinton]] as "Brokinton"
-:Just wanted to say that. [[User:That-1-Green-Pokey|That-1-Green-Pokey]] ([[User talk:That-1-Green-Pokey|talk]]) 6:28 PM  December 31, 2020
-::That was his name in the Nintendo Game Boy Player's Guide. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 18:53, December 31, 2020 (EST)
-:To go off of the first thing in this section, the only way for Rosalina to be young even though with your logic she should be hundreds to thousands of years old is time travel. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 12:52, December 20, 2022 (CST)
-== Errors ==
-Additionally, the English version isn't the only that messes up. It uses English names for enemies that possibly had a French name back then, still call [[Karamenbō]] as such, rather that giving them a proper name, and misscall Spoing (or possibly Sprangler), since i saw it in a video Arayée, which is the French name of the [[Scuttlebug]]. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:10, August 19, 2019 (EDT)
-== Page 128 ==
-Wasn't Ring Beamer actually referred to as "Ring Beam"? IIRC, it had a separate name from the Sentry Garage, in scans i checked on long ago. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 14:24, January 12, 2021 (EST)
-== On the Wiggler and the singular "they" ==
-In one of the boxes in [[Super_Mario_Bros._Encyclopedia#List_of_English_translation_errors_and_typos_not_from_the_Super_Mario_Wiki| this section]] of the article, it is implied that the use of the pronouns "they" and "them" for the Wiggler refers to the plural tense. However, the singular "they" is in common usage, and is acceptable in this context.<ref>https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/#</ref> Could this prove that this may ''not'' be an mistake, but rather a stylistic choice by the author of the passage? --[[User:Captain.snufkin|Captain.snufkin]] ([[User talk:Captain.snufkin|talk]]) 01:41, May 27, 2021 (EDT)
-:I think in context of other enemies, it looks to be plural so I think it can also be interpreted as multiple enemies. The Ukikis even have a mistake of them being referred to as a singular entity so I think the use of singular they there is unintentional. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 02:13, May 27, 2021 (EDT)
-== "Controversy" ==
-The wiki's framing of the plagiarism sitch as a "controversy" comes across as... self-absorbed, to be honest. Granted, it did spur some contentious discussion in this particular community, but has this really echoed that greatly over the Internet? The Nintendo Life article, cited on this page, does not make note of any controversy surrounding the fiasco, merely shedding a light on the wiki's observations. Point is, this alleged controversy doesn't seem to have had the proper magnitude or notability to warrant being referred to as such here. I'd be in favour of changing the "Controversy" heading to "Plagiarism". {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:52, April 8, 2022 (EDT)
-:Support. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 12:53, April 9, 2022 (EDT)
-::I did find this on [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/OvershadowedByControversy/VideoGames]]: "This incident has made it very difficult for Super Mario fans to recommend buying the English version of the book, with most urging against doing so or at least telling people to buy a second-hand copy so as not to give financial support to Davisson's unethical behavior." [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:16, August 6, 2022 (EDT)
-== Add error please. ==
-Hey, but the last picture in the Artwork section of the Gallery of the MTT2 page on this wiki is used in the last page of the Enemies section of the Super Mario World game part of the Encyclopedia, but it's colorized. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 15:31, December 15, 2022 (CST)
-== Final game list clarifications/fixes ==
-It would be nice to have a list of any games that were missing in the final list of all games Mario has appeared in, as well as clarifications for any of the games whose descriptions didn't explain where Mario (or a Mario character) appeared. [[Special:Contributions/70.178.227.7|70.178.227.7]] 08:52, August 31, 2023 (EDT)
-== Copyright infringement ==
-I noticed that many articles feature character or enemy profiles from the encyclopedia, mostly the Japanese edition. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those kind of the entire selling point of the book? For publications like ''[[Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia]]'', the wiki at least has the excuse that it has long been out of print and the information within is difficult to access. The ample coverage of SMB Encyclopedia doesn't have that prerogative. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 19:55, April 20, 2024 (EDT)
-:I am glad you brought this up. The disseminating of text from recent books, still actively in print, makes me uneasy. I have noticed a similar situation where "profiles" from the English edition of ''[[The Art of Super Mario Odyssey]]'' have been incorporated into articles, and its not even a guidebook. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:22, April 20, 2024 (EDT)
-:I also question if having images for every "mistakes" in the book is prudent. It's certainly not necessary-The Transformers wiki [https://tfwiki.net/wiki/The_Transformers_Continuum has] [https://tfwiki.net/wiki/What_Is_the_Story_of_Transformers%3F pages] tearing apart official guidebooks in a similar fashion and it doesn't need the table+images format to do that. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 23:00, April 20, 2024 (EDT)
-::Unless description is very difficult to do without an image, there's no need to provide images. {{User:Mario/sig}} 23:03, April 20, 2024 (EDT)
-:::I'm not sure how relevant this is, but I'd like to point out the entirety of the Japanese version of the encyclopedia is [https://archive.org/details/30-th-anniversary-encyclopedia-super-mario-bros.-1985-2015/page/n253/mode/2up on the Internet Archive]. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 11:52, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::::Their problem. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:05, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::Isn't this the Super MARIO Wiki? And what does the Encyclopedia itself say? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 11:46, April 23, 2024