Editing Talk:Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury

{{FATALK}}

== God Slayer Bowser... ==

Apparently, at a Japanese press conference, the big dark Bowser is known as God Slayer Bowser. Should we use that as a tentative name or...?[[User:Prpro&#61;03|PrPro03]] ([[User talk:Prpro&#61;03|talk]]) 13:02, January 12, 2021 (EST)
:I'm not too familiar with how we handle this sort of thing, but for now until it's name comes up in English, we could use it. If the page is created, it should be marked with <nowiki>{{another language}}</nowiki>. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
::name is pretty much confirmed to be made-up. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 15:36, January 12, 2021 (EST)
:::I probably should have asked for a source first. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
:Yes, the name came from [https://twitter.com/MattMcMuscles this Twitter user]. I'd advise getting your source directly from official Nintendo-released material rather than someone's word from Twitter. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 19:45, January 12, 2021 (EST)
::I found it's name: Fury Bowser --[[User:Chompers|Chompers]] ([[User talk:Chompers|talk]]) 14:51, January 13, 2021 (EST)
:::...That was resolved a while ago... [[User:Superbound|Superbound]] ([[User talk:Superbound|talk]]) 14:59, January 13, 2021 (EST)

== Cat coins ==

I'm not very sure about this idea, but it's possible that the small tokens could act like moon shards rather than green stars --[[User:Chompers|Chompers]] ([[User talk:Chompers|talk]]) 18:59, January 12, 2021 (EST)

The tokens are called [[Cat Shine Shard]]s, and they do act more like moon shards. {{User:Bowser64/sig}}

:Keep the timestamp in mind when replying; this was posted before the game came out when we knew little about the game. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 22:31, April 10, 2021 (EDT)

== Bowser's Fury formatting ==

Should we italicalise just "Bowser's Fury" as well, even if it's just talking about the mode itself? {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
:If refered as full title (''Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury'' is Nintendo Switch game.) then I yes, but if we are talking about mode as standalone entity (Bowser's Fury is new game mode added in ''SM3DW'' port.), then not. At least that's my opinion. [[User:Superbound|Superbound]] ([[User talk:Superbound|talk]]) 14:59, January 13, 2021 (EST)
:Typically, for citations the greater project (e.g. album, book, video game, etc.) it italicized, but individual portions within are to just have quotation marks around them. The collection of short stories by {{wp|J. D. Salinger}} is rendered as {{wp|Nine Stories (Salinger)|''Nine Stories''}} but one of the stories within is rendered as "Uncle Wiggily in Connecticut". The Beatles album is rendered as ''{{wp|Abbey Road}}'' but an individual song on the album is rendered as "Come Together". For video games, I'm inclined to think the most appropriate render for individual modes or minigames within a larger package with follow a similar convention: the game as a whole is ''Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury'', but the latter mode itself should be rendered as "Bowser's Fury". - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:13, January 13, 2021 (EST)
::I'm thinking it should be along the lines of Bowser's Minions and Bowser Jr.'s Journey, which are already italicised across different articles. We should instead determine whether standalone-adventure "sub-games" like these should be italicised or not. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 23:55, January 13, 2021 (EST)
:::Well, I can make a proposal about it, but I'm unsure what would be the definition. Would ''"a mode in the game that has significantly different gameplay"'' work? [[User:Superbound|Superbound]] ([[User talk:Superbound|talk]]) 10:40, January 20, 2021 (EST)
::::I wouldn't phrase it like that. Why would it matter if the mode has significantly different gameplay? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 11:49, January 20, 2021 (EST)
I need to mention something. I brought up this discussion because at the time Bowser's Fury wasn't formatted in italics on this article, even though we had been doing that formatting with things like ''Minion Quest''. Then after I created this section, I noticed that Bowser's Fury had been formatted like that in several other articles, so I went ahead and did the same here. Now I don't know if this discussion is entirely necessary. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
:::::I thought the gameplay value mattered since Bowser's Minions and Bowser Jr.'s Journey are italicized and have different gameplay, while [[Donkey Kong Adventure]], another standalone mode, doesn't have that much distinct gameplay and I assumed that in consequence isn't italicized. Am I wrong? Do you have a better way to phrase it? [[User:Superbound|Superbound]] ([[User talk:Superbound|talk]]) 15:07, January 21, 2021 (EST)

== Nintendo Life information ==
There has been a bunch of new info that has just surfaced, as described in [https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/01/nintendo_shares_new_info_about_bowsers_fury_mode_in_super_mario_3d_world this article from Nintendo Life] We should get this added. --[[User:Moustachetana|Moustachetana]] ([[User talk:Moustachetana|talk]]) 07:37, January 17, 2021 (EST)

== Leaked Gameplay Information ==
Because the game was leaked a week early, there's some videos of both [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=synGS20aOD0 the first 20-odd minutes] of the mode and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epcemzmA1ao the ending]. There was also a completion play-through uploaded but I think Nintendo took that down by now. Should information from these videos be posted to this article?
--[[User:Mjmannella|Mjmannella]] ([[User talk:Mjmannella|talk]]) 13:51, February 8, 2021 (EST)
:The videos were already removed due to copyright claims, it's better to avoid information that then becomes unsourced, we can wait until Friday.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:01, February 9, 2021 (EST)

== We need the article about fonts used in Mario games ==

Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury uses Rodin NTLG instead of Seurat used in Wii U version of Super Mario 3D World. So I prepared the content for the article about fonts used in Mario games:
{| class="wikitable"
! Typeface !! Foundry !! Description !! Games
|-
| Rodin NTLG<br>(ロダンNTLG) || Fontworks || Rodin with New Type Labo Gothic kana. The kana stroke ends are horizontal or vertical. || Super Mario Odyssey<br>Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury
|-
| Seurat<br>(スーラ) || Fontworks || A rounded sans serif typeface. || New Super Mario Bros. Wii<br>Super Mario 3D Land<br>New Super Mario Bros. 2<br>New Super Mario Bros. U<br>New Super Luigi U<br>Super Mario 3D World<br>New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe
|}
Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/36.85.216.85|36.85.216.85]] 10:00, February 11, 2021 (EST)
:I support this. I suppose this can be expanded to include the iconic [[:File:Super Mario.svg|"Super Mario" font]] that I don't know the name of, as well as the various fonts used in partner franchises such as ''Donkey Kong Country''. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 10:08, February 11, 2021 (EST)
::That font is a custom font used since Super Mario 3D Land, so, that font has no name. [[Special:Contributions/36.85.216.85|36.85.216.85]] 10:19, February 11, 2021 (EST)

== Luigi Bros. ==

Is Luigi Bros. in this? Otherwise it should be noted in the changes right? {{unsigned|LetsPlayNintendoITA}}

:I don't believe so, at least not at the start of the game (though I doubt it's unlockable). {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 19:39, February 12, 2021 (EST)

::Yes, ''Luigi Bros.'' [https://twitter.com/Superadam101/status/1360390295863455744 is actually still in this port] I can confirm. --[[User:KingGeoshiKoopshi64|KingGeoshiKoopshi64]] ([[User talk:KingGeoshiKoopshi64|talk]]) 21:10, February 12, 2021 (EST)

:::Oh there you go, for some reason I misremembered it being available from the start. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 05:41, February 13, 2021 (EST)
::::I believe in the original it was available from the start if you have New Super Luigi U save data (which is stated [[Mario Bros. (game)#Luigi Bros.|here]]). I'll make sure to check that whenever I get around to playing this game as I have New Super Luigi U save data on my switch as well. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 06:19, February 13, 2021 (EST)

== Portuguese Website Mistake ==

I'm not sure what to do with this info, but Nintendo's Portuguese website mistakenly calls this game a perfected version of Super Mario World instead of Super Mario 3D World.

"Tratando-se de uma versão aperfeiçoada de Super Mario Word, foram efetuadas algumas melhorias à jogabilidade para tornar esta aventura ainda mais incrível." -[https://www.nintendo.pt/Jogos/Nintendo-Switch/Super-Mario-3D-World-Bowser-s-Fury-1832228.html#Super_Mario_3D_World Link]

[[Special:Contributions/85.243.109.179|85.243.109.179]] 10:34, February 16, 2021 (EST)

== Small Mistake ==
In the Locations section it says that you must fight Fury Bowser 6 times in order to beat the game when in reality is only five times. {{unsigned|88.17.224.99}}

Technically it's 6, since [[Giant Bowser]] is the final boss, and (Obviously.) [[Fury Bowser]] is [[Bowser]]. {{User:Bowser64/sig}}

== Springs ==

I don't know if it's noteworthy or not, but the unnamed spring objects that can be found on the lighthouses and some areas. Considering the game is about cats, there are actually cat toys that look pretty similar to them which could explain their appearance, should this be mentioned or no?[[User:Pikmin theories|Pikmin theories]] ([[User talk:Pikmin theories|talk]]) 00:55, February 24, 2021 (EST)

== Bowser's Minions ==

I think Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga + Bowsers Minions should be listed in the references section because the name structure of Super Mario 3D World + Bowsers Fury greatly resembles the one of Mario & Luigi Superstar Sage + Bowsers Minions{{unsigned|80.57.88.144}}
:I'm not sure, seems a bit coincidental to me. It's hardly a full-on reference to that game either way. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 10:13, March 12, 2021 (EST)

== Conjectural names ==

Is it possible for someone to go into the game's files and find the file names of the Fury Cats, Kittens, Calico cat parents, Plessie Ring, Fury Stake, and Cat Flinger, because at least renaming those respective pages would be somewhat official, and seeing so many conjectural names is honestly uncomfortable to look at. [[User:Prpro&#61;03|PrPro03]] ([[User talk:Prpro&#61;03|talk]]) 08:38, March 17, 2021 (EDT)
:The Kittens' name is shown from some of the Cat Shines. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 09:07, March 17, 2021 (EDT)

==Real Name?==
Ok, so phase 2 of Fury Bowser's boss fight is chasing "Super Bowser" down, but the soundtrack says "Chasing Down Giga Bowser" (Final Boss Theme), so should we rename?

[[User:Dreamy Bowser|Dreamy Bowser]] ([[User talk:Dreamy Bowser|talk]]) 10:49, March 17, 2021 (EDT)

:Does "Super Bowser" come from the name of a mission? Is the soundtrack title an official English localization of the track's name or a fan's translation of the track's Japanese name? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:06, March 17, 2021 (EDT)

Well The Wiki Shows That He's Called "Super Bowser", And I Don't Think Phase 2 Of Fury Bowser's Final Boss Fight Has A Mission, But The Soundtrack Says It's "[[Giga Bowser]]", And Not "Super Bowser". Also, If It Were A Japanese Name, It Would Obviously Be In Japanese. And I Don't Know Where The Wiki Got Super Bowser From, But He Is Like Super Bowser, But It Says It's Giga Bowser Instead. Also The Soundtrack Is In Bowser's Fury, And If It Were In Japanese, How Could I Have Known The Title Of The Soundtrack? And, Where I Found The Name Of The Soundtrack Is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpOQ8PUU4VU. (It's A Link To The Video.) [[User:Dreamy Bowser|Dreamy Bowser]] ([[User talk:Dreamy Bowser|talk]]) 10:25, March 18, 2021 (EDT)
:"Super Bowser" is what the [[Giant Bowser]] article used to be called, that seems to be where that name came from, which in turn was used by PRIMA games for New Super Mario Bros. Wii. That YouTube channel you linked doesn't seem to be an official one either. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 10:34, March 18, 2021 (EDT)
::''Bowser's Fury'' doesn't have an official soundtrack release right now, and in ''Super Mario 3D World'' the file names usually don't match the actual track names of the soundtrack. For example, the track ''Plessie'' is named ''Redc_bgm_Waiting'' (i.e. the actual name is ''Waiting'', as ''Red Carpet'' is the codename of ''Super Mario 3D World'') and the track ''Victory Parade'' is named ''Redc_bgm_Afterboss''. The track names given in those videos don't fit what is usually found in the file names, so they are likely made up.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:01, March 18, 2021 (EDT)

Well, the video has the exact same music in the game, so it's not made up. {{User:Bowser64/sig}}

:Yes, but the name is. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 22:17, April 10, 2021 (EDT)

== minimum amount of lives ==

in the original, the minimum amount of lives is 1, but in the remake it's 0. should I add that? or has someone already added it? [[Special:Contributions/80.57.88.144|80.57.88.144]] 03:25, March 19, 2021 (EDT)

The Minimum On The Remake Is 0, If You, For Example: Lose A Life When You Have 1, It'll Not Let You Be Game Over'd, Instead, It Will Show You Have 0 lives, But You Can Do The Course For 1 Last Time, Unless Of Course, You Take The Game Card Out Or Exit The Level, Or Lose Another Life, And I Don't Know if Someone Added It Already. {{User:Bowser64/sig}}

Ok, i added the minimum of lifes changes in the gameplay section. {{User:Bowser64/sig}}

== Fury Shadows are bosses ==

I think that Fury Shadows should be moved to the Bosses section, because lots of people agree that they are bosses. [[User:OkSteak|OkSteak]] ([[User talk:OkSteak|talk]])OkSteak

[[File:Furyshadowluigi.png|thumb|The said “Fury Shadow”]]



It's not a boss, the bosses in the games are in arenas, like for example, [[Boom Boom]] And [[Pom Pom]]. Fury Shadow reappears through [[Lake Lapcat|The Island,]] like in [[Scamper Shores]], and [[Risky Whisker Island]]. {{User:Bowser64/sig}}
{{br}}

== [[Toad Brigade]] Locations.==

I think we should add the locations onto where the members of the Toad Brigade are found, like [[Scamper Shores|Captain Toad's Location.]] {{User:Bowser64/sig}}

== Cat enemies redirects ==

{{talk}}
Since there are no plans to create articles for the cat variations of enemies that appear in Bowser's Fury due to them all being nothing but aesthetic changes, I was thinking would redirects to the Bowser's Fury sections of each enemy article be appropriate? e.g "Cat Boomerang Bro" redirecting to the SM3DW / SM3DW+BF section of the [[Boomerang Bro]] article. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 13:02, May 5, 2021 (EDT)

I think this is a good idea as Cat enemies are technically different enemies despite acting the same. {{User:Matthew aka Mario}} 11:24, May 5, 2021 (EDT)

== Is Bowser's theme from Super Mario 3D Land rearranged and/or referenced in this game? ==

Good afternoon, everyone, and Moe-st cordial greetings to all of you. As I feel that I need to be taken seriously in the following Moe-tter, I have taken some Moe-dicine to curb my al-Moe-st constantly running Moes. And the Moe-dicine should go into effect... at this... moment! Ah, there. I don't like the taste, but it's worth it to get my point across.

So, a while back I made an edit in the "References to other games" section which stated that the theme which plays when [[Fury Bowser]] appears for the first time on [[Fur Step Island]] is a rearrangement of his chase theme from ''[[Super Mario 3D Land]]''. You know, like, the normal boss theme for [[Tail Bowser]]s. For reference, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g3zpajpoxo this] is that song from ''Super Mario 3D Land'', and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEbHrmr2QNk this] is the music which plays on Fur Step Island when Fury Bowser first appears. Take a listen to both. Do you notice a striking similarity between the two songs' main repeated phrases? Though their notes are different, their tone is identical, and they play at the exact intervals (adjusting for tempo) as each other. I really don't even think I need to explain so much - the near-identical refrains are obvious. The "frontal" melodies are different; covered by tanpura in the former and seemingly by brass instrument(s) in the latter. But the five-note phrase which repeats underneath both songs? Effectively the same. And, let the record show, I'm not the only one to notice. I originally added the trivia because a large number of commenters had said the exact same thing ("This is Bowser's theme from 3D Land!") and, going back to compare them for myself, I agreed.

I'm reasonably confident this is indeed a direct and deliberate reference, but another user removed what I added, commenting on it: "Not really, the rhythm at the beginning is just similar but the notes are different and so is the rest of the theme". Not wanting to start one of the dreaded "edit wars" I've heard of (which, thankfully, I have never partaken in as of yet), I decided to take it to the discussion page instead. I know I'm not infallible, yet I also know that those who correct others aren't infallible themselves. And I don't mean to make this personal in the slightest. I simply believe the most rational course of action to be: Leaving it to others. I simply ask: Is it too apocryphal to link these two similarly-sounding Bowser themes from 3D platformers, only because they're not ''identical''? I'll have to accept it if others deem the songs to be unrelated, but at least the point will have been given a second chance to stand.

One final note: The trivia currently connects [[Boom Boom|Boom Boom's]] boss fight in [[Clawswipe Colosseum]], which takes place on spikes, to one in ''3D Land'' which also takes place on spikes. Any connection here is somewhat weak: Drawn only from vaguely shared circumstances, when, in all likelihood, the spikes were not a deliberate reference on the developers' part to ''3D Land''. With that in mind, if we cannot keep evidence of a much more concrete musical reference in the trivia section, I see no good reason why this point should also stay. If someone can provide a good distinction, I'd be willing to hear it!

Thank you sincerely for reading! I'm always glad to help contribute, however I can, to the Wiki's breadth of accurate infor-Moe-tion. Oh, and the Moe-dicine's worn off. That's fine, of course - I like Moe speaking style. '''- Moses the [[User:Moe-Eye|Moe-Eye]] ([[User talk:Moe-Eye|talk]]) 18:23, May 12, 2021 (EDT)'''
:The YouTube account that uploaded the Bowser's Fury track was taken down, can you find a different upload of it? Also, I'm in the camp of the Boom Boom battle on spikes not being a reference. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 19:00, May 12, 2021 (EDT)

::Yes, I Moe-st certainly can (thank you for Moe-ntioning that). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjsCzQWmZKw&list=PLjJC3hyewH5BcqFs_c_ydfgN3vZRAUudt&index=4 Let's try this link instead.] This song begins with an orchestral swell not present in the ''3D Land'' song, but that's not the part I'm calling si-Moe-lar. It's the five-note riff which comes after and repeats. '''-Moses the Moe-sical [[User:Moe-Eye|Moe-Eye]] ([[User talk:Moe-Eye|talk]]) 22:34, May 12, 2021 (EDT)'''

:::Oh yeah, I definitely hear it. Might want to get a few more opinions on it before adding it back as a reference though. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:45, May 13, 2021 (EDT)
::::I thought it sounded very similar too. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 11:51, May 13, 2021 (EDT)
:::::Good to Moe I'm not alone here! Now, is two agree-Moe-nts enough, or should I wait for Moe input? I don't want to be too hasty. "Moe and steady", that's my Moe-tto. '''- Moses the [[User:Moe-Eye|Moe-Eye]] ([[User talk:Moe-Eye|talk]]) 19:19, May 23, 2021 (EDT)'''
::::::I actually think that Fury Bowser's encounter theme is based on [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixA3SzX6uUc the castle theme of ''Super Mario Bros. 3''], if this were the case then the similarities with ''Super Mario 3D Land'' would be due to how that latter game's soundtrack is also based on the soundtrack of ''Super Mario Bros. 3''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:41, May 24, 2021 (EDT)

== Mystery pic ==

On the News page from the Switch menu, there's a North American region-exclusive article published around March 30, 2021 titled "Uncover a mystery pic from Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury" that has a picture and bio of an enemy from ''Bowser's Fury'', and apparently they're different across different Switch systems. I thought we could check which enemies we got and add the bios to the corresponding profiles and statistics pages/sections (I got Cat Koopa Troopa and added it to its [[List of Koopa Troopa profiles and statistics|page]]). {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 23:36, May 12, 2021 (EDT)
:Mine's Cat Goomba, I went ahead and added it to the page. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 16:01, May 13, 2021 (EDT)
::I've switched to the Americas region but I can't find the article. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:18, May 13, 2021 (EDT)
:::Sorry, I should've mentioned that you need a North American Nintendo Account connected to view the news; changing the Switch's region unfortunately doesn't work. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 21:55, May 13, 2021 (EDT)
:I added Cat Bully's description - [[User:RHG1951|RHG1951]] ([[User talk:RHG1951|talk]]) 22:40, May 13, 2021 (EDT)
:I added Cat Piranha Plant's. [[User:0blivion|0blivion]] ([[User talk:0blivion|talk]]) 08:37, May 14, 2021 (EDT)

== Enemies' projectiles ? ==

Should projectiles like [[hammer]]s and [[boomerang]]s be included ? I wouldn't count [[fireball]]s, but these look like they should be included as well. What do you think ?[[User:Giga Cat Weegee|Giga Cat Weegee]] ([[User talk:Giga Cat Weegee|talk]]) 10:02, May 29, 2021 (EDT)
:That would just be going overboard IMO. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 10:28, May 29, 2021 (EDT)

== Cat Shine available before credits ==

According to IGN's walkthrough [https://www.ign.com/wikis/super-mario-3d-world/Lake_Lapcat_Cat_Shines], the following 4 [[Cat Shine|Cat Shines]] can be obtained before seeing the credits, so a total of 81 Cat Shines obtainable pre-credits, instead of 77.
*Wasteland Rabbit Plays Tag
*Shining on a Hidden Isle
*Hurry! Slip to the Shine!
*Gazing Down at Lava 
[[Special:Contributions/123.203.22.25|123.203.22.25]] 12:39, June 3, 2022 (EDT)

== Finalize the ''Bowser's Fury'' split ==

The ''[[Bowser's Fury]]'' article has been split from [[Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury|this article]] per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/64#Split the "&lsqb;remake title&rsqb; + &lsqb;completely new game title&rsqb;" games|proposal]], but this article still retains an entire section with all of the ''Bowser's Fury'' info. I guess this section should be trimmed down to a small paragraph with a link to the [[Bowser's Fury|main article]], but how should we handle the "Featured Article" status of [[Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury|this article]]? {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 03:20, January 13, 2024 (EST)