Editing Talk:Super Mario (series)
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I have attempted to edit the page. There is still much need for the article to be edited to add the land titles. I have attempted to change some of the basic text to tell the reader that the first two Mario land titles are apart of the main series. If you could edit the page to completely fill in these games that would be appreciated. I am inexperienced with editing source code. Thank you. {{user|Thenintendostooge}} 10:44, 29 May 2015 (EDT) | I have attempted to edit the page. There is still much need for the article to be edited to add the land titles. I have attempted to change some of the basic text to tell the reader that the first two Mario land titles are apart of the main series. If you could edit the page to completely fill in these games that would be appreciated. I am inexperienced with editing source code. Thank you. {{user|Thenintendostooge}} 10:44, 29 May 2015 (EDT) | ||
:This is a major change as it has repercussions for organization across the wiki and should be decided via ''proposal'', not via one brief conversation with only two people involved. [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | :This is a major change as it has repercussions for organization across the wiki and should be decided via ''proposal'', not via one brief conversation with only two people involved. [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_31#Coming_up_with_a_more_consistent_standard_for_the_Super_Mario_series|The last time this was proposed, it failed]]. Granted, that was years ago and there's new information to consider, but the fact that the discussion got that contentious last time just proves that you need to do this via proper channels this time too. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 15:28, 29 May 2015 (EDT) | ||
Proposals are only neccarey if there is question of if the material should be on the article. Size of change is not a reason as to why a proposal is needed. This is because size and importance of something is debatable and opinionated. A simple minor change could be small to one and huge to the other. Since Super Mario Wiki has nothing to say how big something has to be to be proposed, then according to the rules it is perfectly fine. Proposals so far should only be made if there is doubt or question about the material. Unless you doubt my source, then there is no one to question if it should or should not be there. If that is the case one has every right to post a fact when there is no opposition. Do you question my source? If my reasoning is not clear please explain. | Proposals are only neccarey if there is question of if the material should be on the article. Size of change is not a reason as to why a proposal is needed. This is because size and importance of something is debatable and opinionated. A simple minor change could be small to one and huge to the other. Since Super Mario Wiki has nothing to say how big something has to be to be proposed, then according to the rules it is perfectly fine. Proposals so far should only be made if there is doubt or question about the material. Unless you doubt my source, then there is no one to question if it should or should not be there. If that is the case one has every right to post a fact when there is no opposition. Do you question my source? If my reasoning is not clear please explain. | ||
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#{{User|Andymii}} Essentially, the only hint towards a new series is the word "New.", as the gameplay is still pretty much the same as always. It's like saying Super Mario Bros. 1-3 is a different series as Super Mario World because World lacks the number 4 in it's name. It's basically the ''Mario'' version of the ''Donkey Kong Country Returns'' games. | #{{User|Andymii}} Essentially, the only hint towards a new series is the word "New.", as the gameplay is still pretty much the same as always. It's like saying Super Mario Bros. 1-3 is a different series as Super Mario World because World lacks the number 4 in it's name. It's basically the ''Mario'' version of the ''Donkey Kong Country Returns'' games. | ||
#{{User|PowerKamek}} Per all. | #{{User|PowerKamek}} Per all. | ||
#{{User|BabyLuigi64}} We actually [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive | #{{User|BabyLuigi64}} We actually [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 41#New Article|did have a proposal about this]]; Per all opposing reasons there. | ||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Been mulling this over since I was on the fence, but yeah, gonna listen to my gut and vote "no" on this, like how I opposed the past proposals. The ''NSMB'' games are no more different than the other 2D platformers as ''SMB2'' (except graphically, but as seen in ''Super Mario Maker'', that's pretty superficial), and certainly not more different than when you compare the ''SM64''-type games to ''SMB'' etc. And most worrisomely to me it that it opens the door to iffier subseries pages being made too, and even the splitting of History sections, which we emphatically don't want; the "there's already a subseries page" argument gives the pro-splitters a foot in the door, and will probably led to ''more'' attempts due to the perceived inconsistency between the series pages and the organizational aspect of the wiki: better to be consistent. And upon further consideration, we ''don't'' actually have an example of a completely nested subseries getting its own page, so this ''would'' be a new precedent: ''SML'' is separate from both ''SM'' and ''WL'', thanks to ''YI'', ''SMA'' is not completely contained within ''SM'', and while there ''are'' separate ''DKC''/''DKL'' series pages despite them being grouped together in History sections (but not [[Template:Donkey Kong games|templates]] or categories currently), there's no umbrella page (the overall ''DK'' series is more like the overall ''Mario'' series page). And to a lesser extent I tand by my final argument [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | #{{User|Walkazo}} - Been mulling this over since I was on the fence, but yeah, gonna listen to my gut and vote "no" on this, like how I opposed the past proposals. The ''NSMB'' games are no more different than the other 2D platformers as ''SMB2'' (except graphically, but as seen in ''Super Mario Maker'', that's pretty superficial), and certainly not more different than when you compare the ''SM64''-type games to ''SMB'' etc. And most worrisomely to me it that it opens the door to iffier subseries pages being made too, and even the splitting of History sections, which we emphatically don't want; the "there's already a subseries page" argument gives the pro-splitters a foot in the door, and will probably led to ''more'' attempts due to the perceived inconsistency between the series pages and the organizational aspect of the wiki: better to be consistent. And upon further consideration, we ''don't'' actually have an example of a completely nested subseries getting its own page, so this ''would'' be a new precedent: ''SML'' is separate from both ''SM'' and ''WL'', thanks to ''YI'', ''SMA'' is not completely contained within ''SM'', and while there ''are'' separate ''DKC''/''DKL'' series pages despite them being grouped together in History sections (but not [[Template:Donkey Kong games|templates]] or categories currently), there's no umbrella page (the overall ''DK'' series is more like the overall ''Mario'' series page). And to a lesser extent I tand by my final argument [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_41#New_Article|in the]] older [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_39#Changes_to_the_sub-series_sections|proposals]], in that we should focus on making extant series pages less crappy, rather than piling on redundant new ones to neglect. | ||
#{{User|RandomYoshi}} – I really don't like creating new articles just for the sake of creating new articles, which is what this seems to be all about. Furthermore, the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' games are not that much more different from the mainline ''Super Mario'' games. If your argument that they differ enough is that the titles in the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' series contain [[Star Coins]], plot twist, ''[[Super Mario World]]'' already had a [[Dragon Coin|similar mechanic]], whilst ''[[Super Mario Advance]]'' also had [[Ace Coin|specific coin]]s that could be collected in a similar fashion. Furthermore, the inclusion of [[Red Coin]]s in ''[[Super Mario Bros. Deluxe]]'''s [[Super Mario Bros. Deluxe#Challenge|challenge mode]] further cements my belief that the creation of a ''New Super Mario Bros.'' series page is absolutely unnecessary. I would also write something about how the categorisation of these new pages, and how this would open the floodgates for new series pages to be created, but it appears that Walkazo has already illustrated opinions that are similar to my own in this instance, so I have to say per Walkazo on those points. | #{{User|RandomYoshi}} – I really don't like creating new articles just for the sake of creating new articles, which is what this seems to be all about. Furthermore, the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' games are not that much more different from the mainline ''Super Mario'' games. If your argument that they differ enough is that the titles in the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' series contain [[Star Coins]], plot twist, ''[[Super Mario World]]'' already had a [[Dragon Coin|similar mechanic]], whilst ''[[Super Mario Advance]]'' also had [[Ace Coin|specific coin]]s that could be collected in a similar fashion. Furthermore, the inclusion of [[Red Coin]]s in ''[[Super Mario Bros. Deluxe]]'''s [[Super Mario Bros. Deluxe#Challenge|challenge mode]] further cements my belief that the creation of a ''New Super Mario Bros.'' series page is absolutely unnecessary. I would also write something about how the categorisation of these new pages, and how this would open the floodgates for new series pages to be created, but it appears that Walkazo has already illustrated opinions that are similar to my own in this instance, so I have to say per Walkazo on those points. | ||
#{{User|Boo4761}} Per all, especially Pi, Chocolate Mario, Walkazo, and BabyLuigi64. | #{{User|Boo4761}} Per all, especially Pi, Chocolate Mario, Walkazo, and BabyLuigi64. | ||
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===Oppose=== | ===Oppose=== | ||
#{{User|BabyLuigi64}} Donkey Kong Country, DK Land and Wario Land are sub-series of the Donkey Kong and Wario series respectively, but New Super Mario Bros. is pretty much a sub-series [[Super Mario Bros. (series)|of a sub-series]] [[Super Mario (series)|of a sub-series]] [[Mario (franchise)|of the Mario series as a whole]]. Furthermore, Super Mario Land can be justified by [[Talk:Super Mario Land (series)#Merge to Super Mario (series)|this proposal]], and finally Super Mario Advance is partially Yoshi series thanks to it remaking ''Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island''. Also, per the [[Talk:Super Mario (series)#Create a New Super Mario Bros. (series) page|last]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | #{{User|BabyLuigi64}} Donkey Kong Country, DK Land and Wario Land are sub-series of the Donkey Kong and Wario series respectively, but New Super Mario Bros. is pretty much a sub-series [[Super Mario Bros. (series)|of a sub-series]] [[Super Mario (series)|of a sub-series]] [[Mario (franchise)|of the Mario series as a whole]]. Furthermore, Super Mario Land can be justified by [[Talk:Super Mario Land (series)#Merge to Super Mario (series)|this proposal]], and finally Super Mario Advance is partially Yoshi series thanks to it remaking ''Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island''. Also, per the [[Talk:Super Mario (series)#Create a New Super Mario Bros. (series) page|last]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_41#New_Article|two]] proposals for creating an NSMB page. | ||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per the opposition votes on [[#Create_a_New_Super_Mario_Bros._.28series.29_page|the last time]] this unnecessary upheavel of the backbone of the wiki was attempted, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | #{{User|Walkazo}} - Per the opposition votes on [[#Create_a_New_Super_Mario_Bros._.28series.29_page|the last time]] this unnecessary upheavel of the backbone of the wiki was attempted, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_41#New_Article|and the time before that]], aaaand [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_39#Changes_to_the_sub-series_sections|the time before that]] too. There is no point having a ''NSMB'' subseries page because it is completely nested within the overall ''SM'' series page: anything that can be said about the ''NSMB'' games is already said on [[Super Mario (series)]], so why bother saying it ''again'' on yet another crappy series page? And if we make a ''NSMB'' subseries page, that ''will'' opens the door to subpages for other chunks of the ''SM'' series (and beyond), but they don't need them either, so no, that is NOT a precedent we want. [[Donkey Kong (series)]] and [[Wario (series)]] are like [[Mario (franchise)]] (and [[Yoshi (series)]]) in that they're [[MarioWiki:Coverage#What_the_Super_Mario_Wiki_covers|the four main "partner series"]] that make up the franchise, hence [[Donkey Kong Country (series)]], [[Donkey Kong Land (series)]] and [[Wario Land (series)]] exist: they're equivalents of the ''SM'' series itself (as well as any given non-platformer spinoffs too, from ''Mario Kart'' to ''Dr. Mario''), so you can't really try to compare them to a subset of ''SM'' games - it's crabapples to oranges. As for [[Super Mario Land (series)]] and [[Super Mario Advance (series)]], they're also different from ''NSMB'', because they ''can't'' be nested within a single parent series: ''SMA'' has ''Yoshi's Island'' in there, and ''SML'' is a transition from ''SM'' to ''Wario Land'' and the first two are different enough from both that they get listed separately in History sections (but since ''SMA'' are all remakes, as long as the original games already have sections, they're just grouped in there too, same as any other remake). Speaking of which, History sections, categories and templates should be consistent with subseries pages: split out a ''NSMB'' series page, split it everywhere else too, or be inconsistent with ''every'' other series that's gotten a page so far (except the ''SMA'' remakes): either way, it is NOT something we want. The core games should ''all'' be at the tops of Histories, and ''all'' covered here: no redundant series page, no organizational inconsistencies, no opening of the floodgates to more hellish subseries discussions. We should just make the series pages we already have presentable and call it a day. | ||
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} I don't agree with Walkazo on everything, but before we descend into these kinds of proposals, we need to focus first on the quality of the (series) pages as a whole, as I've reiterated every single time these kinds of arguments get brought up. We have been [http://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=32903.0 extensively] documenting the consistently poor quality of these kinds of articles and have not yet reached a final agreement on how they should be designed. It will be far more constructive to focus on the foundation of such pages than spending futile effort after futile effort on trying to do anything else with these crummy (series) pages. | #{{User|Bazooka Mario}} I don't agree with Walkazo on everything, but before we descend into these kinds of proposals, we need to focus first on the quality of the (series) pages as a whole, as I've reiterated every single time these kinds of arguments get brought up. We have been [http://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=32903.0 extensively] documenting the consistently poor quality of these kinds of articles and have not yet reached a final agreement on how they should be designed. It will be far more constructive to focus on the foundation of such pages than spending futile effort after futile effort on trying to do anything else with these crummy (series) pages. | ||
#{{User|Boo4761}} Per all the opposition votes on the previous proposals and these. | #{{User|Boo4761}} Per all the opposition votes on the previous proposals and these. | ||
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== Is Yoshi's Island a core game? == | == Is Yoshi's Island a core game? == | ||
According to Miyamoto, it is. But we currently put it in "related games". Shouldn't we put it in "additional games"? And while I'm here, should "main games" and "additional games" be merged? -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 17:41, 13 January 2018 (EST) | According to Miyamoto, it is. But we currently put it in "related games". Shouldn't we put it in "additional games"? And while I'm here, should "main games" and "additional games" be merged? -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 17:41, 13 January 2018 (EST) | ||
:I remember having this debate before, and the short answer is "no, Yoshi's Island is not a core Mario series game". There's a lot of arguments to dig up that I don't feel like parsing through old proposals to find an appropriate comments section, [https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/ | :I remember having this debate before, and the short answer is "no, Yoshi's Island is not a core Mario series game". There's a lot of arguments to dig up that I don't feel like parsing through old proposals to find an appropriate comments section, [https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_42#Change_the_main_series_to_include_Super_Mario_Land_1_and_2 one of them is sorta related but not completely]. Additional games aren't merged because they aren't part of the main series per se, they sorta go out of their way to do their own thing (and the Super Mario Land thing is addressed in the linked proposal.) {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 20:16, 13 January 2018 (EST) | ||
::Well, shouldn't we at least move it to "additional games"? -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 20:41, 13 January 2018 (EST) | ::Well, shouldn't we at least move it to "additional games"? -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 20:41, 13 January 2018 (EST) | ||
:::Since that interview Nintendo didn't put Yoshi's Island among the ''Super Mario'' games. They didn't do so in the {{file link|Super Mario Bros 30th Anniversary - JP Artwork.jpg|30th anniversary of Super Mario Bros.}} and, as a consequence, in the ''[[Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.]]'', they don't do so in the ''[https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/mario/collection/search.html#?g=series&v=mariobros Mario Portal]'' - and the American ''[http://mario.nintendo.com/history/ Official Home of Mario]'' as well. They rather put the game as the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZXxOb6S6s0 first ''Yoshi'' platform game] and the {{file link|SMP Yoshi's Island opt.png|first game in the ''Yoshi's Island'' series}}. I do even wonder if we are giving that interview too much weight, as we don't have the Japanese words, creating ambiguity in the meaning of ''core Mario series'', and more than five years passed since when it was published - the current situation of the Koopalings doesn't count as affirming the current validity of that interview, as well before it already ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' , ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'' and ''Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition'' stated that they weren't Bowser's children but rather Bowser's minions.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:15, 13 January 2018 (EST) | :::Since that interview Nintendo didn't put Yoshi's Island among the ''Super Mario'' games. They didn't do so in the {{file link|Super Mario Bros 30th Anniversary - JP Artwork.jpg|30th anniversary of Super Mario Bros.}} and, as a consequence, in the ''[[Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.]]'', they don't do so in the ''[https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/mario/collection/search.html#?g=series&v=mariobros Mario Portal]'' - and the American ''[http://mario.nintendo.com/history/ Official Home of Mario]'' as well. They rather put the game as the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZXxOb6S6s0 first ''Yoshi'' platform game] and the {{file link|SMP Yoshi's Island opt.png|first game in the ''Yoshi's Island'' series}}. I do even wonder if we are giving that interview too much weight, as we don't have the Japanese words, creating ambiguity in the meaning of ''core Mario series'', and more than five years passed since when it was published - the current situation of the Koopalings doesn't count as affirming the current validity of that interview, as well before it already ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' , ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'' and ''Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition'' stated that they weren't Bowser's children but rather Bowser's minions.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:15, 13 January 2018 (EST) | ||
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== Suggest move of "Super Mario Maker and "Super Mario Run" from main games to related games == | == Suggest move of "Super Mario Maker and "Super Mario Run" from main games to related games == | ||
Though I'm new here and can't edit this article, I believe that these two games mentioned in the "main games" should be moved to "related games" as they're not part of the original series as Super Mario Run does not belong to any of the original consoles and Super Mario Maker does not set the story where Bowser kidnaps Peach and Mario must rescue her. Thanks! [[User:ToadfromNJ4122|ToadfromNJ4122]] ([[User talk:ToadfromNJ4122|talk]]) 12:30, 29 November 2018 (EST) | Though I'm new here and can't edit this article, I believe that these two games mentioned in the "main games" should be moved to "related games" as they're not part of the original series as Super Mario Run does not belong to any of the original consoles and Super Mario Maker does not set the story where Bowser kidnaps Peach and Mario must rescue her. Thanks! [[User:ToadfromNJ4122|ToadfromNJ4122]] ([[User talk:ToadfromNJ4122|talk]]) 12:30, 29 November 2018 (EST) | ||
:It was decided through a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | :It was decided through a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_52#Merge_Super_Mario_Land_series.2C_Super_Mario_Maker.2C_Super_Mario_Run_into_.22Super_Mario.22_series|proposal]] that they should be included as main series games. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 12:31, 29 November 2018 (EST) | ||
::Now that ''Super Mario Maker 2'' is announced, it should be mentioned that ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'''s [[Spirit (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate)|spirit]] for Builder Mario recently stated his origin as the "Super Mario Maker Series" (incidentally, "Mario Bros. Series" and "Wrecking Crew Series" are also listed, which we don't have articles for right now). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:14, 13 February 2019 (EST) | ::Now that ''Super Mario Maker 2'' is announced, it should be mentioned that ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'''s [[Spirit (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate)|spirit]] for Builder Mario recently stated his origin as the "Super Mario Maker Series" (incidentally, "Mario Bros. Series" and "Wrecking Crew Series" are also listed, which we don't have articles for right now). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:14, 13 February 2019 (EST) | ||
:::They also call ''Mario & Wario'' a ''Super Mario'' game and ''Wario: Master of Disguise'' a ''Wario Land'' game. To say nothing of what other games would be in the ''Mario Bros.'' series. ''[[Punch Ball Mario Bros.]]''? ''[[Mario Bros. Special]]''? ''[[Mario Clash]]''? Doesn't seem like things Nintendo would acknowledge nowadays..... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:26, 13 February 2019 (EST) | :::They also call ''Mario & Wario'' a ''Super Mario'' game and ''Wario: Master of Disguise'' a ''Wario Land'' game. To say nothing of what other games would be in the ''Mario Bros.'' series. ''[[Punch Ball Mario Bros.]]''? ''[[Mario Bros. Special]]''? ''[[Mario Clash]]''? Doesn't seem like things Nintendo would acknowledge nowadays..... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:26, 13 February 2019 (EST) | ||
::::Likely that Wanda and Count Cannoli were meant to refer to the broader ''Mario'' and ''Wario'' series of platformers (albeit unconventional ones), so that may actually make the case for ''Super Mario Maker'' a bit stronger since it was singled out as a series instead of fit within the loose definition. It could be that Nintendo considers ''Mario'', ''Wario'', and ''Yoshi's Island'' to be unofficial terms for their specific series, which is why they're listed as "Super Mario Series", "Wario Land Series", and "Yoshi Series". Same goes for the ''Donkey Kong Country'' series, which is flatly referred to as the "Donkey Kong Series", meaning that Nintendo apparently treats it as we treat the ''Super Mario Bros.'' games within the ''Super Mario'' series. As for ''Mario Bros.'', there are also a fair bit of alternative versions that are currently thrown together in the arcade game's article, which we might have to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive | ::::Likely that Wanda and Count Cannoli were meant to refer to the broader ''Mario'' and ''Wario'' series of platformers (albeit unconventional ones), so that may actually make the case for ''Super Mario Maker'' a bit stronger since it was singled out as a series instead of fit within the loose definition. It could be that Nintendo considers ''Mario'', ''Wario'', and ''Yoshi's Island'' to be unofficial terms for their specific series, which is why they're listed as "Super Mario Series", "Wario Land Series", and "Yoshi Series". Same goes for the ''Donkey Kong Country'' series, which is flatly referred to as the "Donkey Kong Series", meaning that Nintendo apparently treats it as we treat the ''Super Mario Bros.'' games within the ''Super Mario'' series. As for ''Mario Bros.'', there are also a fair bit of alternative versions that are currently thrown together in the arcade game's article, which we might have to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Split Switch.2F3DS ports with substantial new content|split]] anyway. Or we could just keep an eye on the [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/mario/collection/search.html#?g=series&v=mariobros Japanese] and [http://mario.nintendo.com/history/ English] official websites for the franchise and see how it accommodates ''Super Mario Maker 2''. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 06:03, 14 February 2019 (EST) | ||
:::::It should now be noted that ''SMM2''{{'}}s [https://supermariomaker.nintendo.com/ current English website] states at the bottom "Check out the rest of the Super Mario Maker™ series:", strengthening an argument for them now being a separate series. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 14:13, May 1, 2019 (EDT) | :::::It should now be noted that ''SMM2''{{'}}s [https://supermariomaker.nintendo.com/ current English website] states at the bottom "Check out the rest of the Super Mario Maker™ series:", strengthening an argument for them now being a separate series. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 14:13, May 1, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::::::Or an official subseries, like how the ''Mario Kart Arcade GP'' games are obviously ''Mario Kart'' games, but are not included in the numbering scheme for ''7'' and ''8''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:08, May 1, 2019 (EDT) | ::::::Or an official subseries, like how the ''Mario Kart Arcade GP'' games are obviously ''Mario Kart'' games, but are not included in the numbering scheme for ''7'' and ''8''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:08, May 1, 2019 (EDT) | ||
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:It was actually subtitled ''Super Mario Bros. 5'' in development. So while it may or may not be a ''Super Mario'' game, it absolutely is a ''Super Mario '''Bros.''''' game. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:26, October 27, 2023 (EDT) | :It was actually subtitled ''Super Mario Bros. 5'' in development. So while it may or may not be a ''Super Mario'' game, it absolutely is a ''Super Mario '''Bros.''''' game. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:26, October 27, 2023 (EDT) | ||
::Said image also lists Super Mario Advance 4, which is in the "Ports, remakes, and compilations" section, NOT the Main Games section. We'd have to add that as well. But then we'd have to deal with everything else in that section. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 09:39, January 31, 2024 (CST) | ::Said image also lists Super Mario Advance 4, which is in the "Ports, remakes, and compilations" section, NOT the Main Games section. We'd have to add that as well. But then we'd have to deal with everything else in that section. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 09:39, January 31, 2024 (CST) | ||
== Link issues == | == Link issues == | ||
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== Consider Mario Bros. to be related to the Super Mario series == | == Consider Mario Bros. to be related to the Super Mario series == | ||
{{ | {{TPP}} | ||
''Mario Bros.'' has a lot of relevance when it comes the ''Super Mario'' series. In ''Super Mario Bros. 3'', there's an entire 2 Player Game mode dedicated to a remake of it. ''Super Mario 3D World'' has the ''Luigi Bros.'' game included in it. And the entire ''Super Mario Advance'' series has a remake of it. The fact that it serves as a consistent minigame in a couple of ''Super Mario'' games makes it pretty significant to the series. And while not the sole reason of me suggesting this, ''Mario Bros.'' is relevant for bringing in coins, POW Blocks, and Shellcreepers who serve as early Koopa Troopas, thus making it historically relevant to the series. This proposal aims to consider this game as a [[Super Mario (series)#Related games|related entry]] to the series, mainly because it is a consistent minigame that appears in some of these games. You could argue similar rules for ''Donkey Kong'' with it being referenced in ''Odyssey'', but ''DK'' is never recreated as a minigame in these games, so I don't think it counts. | ''Mario Bros.'' has a lot of relevance when it comes the ''Super Mario'' series. In ''Super Mario Bros. 3'', there's an entire 2 Player Game mode dedicated to a remake of it. ''Super Mario 3D World'' has the ''Luigi Bros.'' game included in it. And the entire ''Super Mario Advance'' series has a remake of it. The fact that it serves as a consistent minigame in a couple of ''Super Mario'' games makes it pretty significant to the series. And while not the sole reason of me suggesting this, ''Mario Bros.'' is relevant for bringing in coins, POW Blocks, and Shellcreepers who serve as early Koopa Troopas, thus making it historically relevant to the series. This proposal aims to consider this game as a [[Super Mario (series)#Related games|related entry]] to the series, mainly because it is a consistent minigame that appears in some of these games. You could argue similar rules for ''Donkey Kong'' with it being referenced in ''Odyssey'', but ''DK'' is never recreated as a minigame in these games, so I don't think it counts. | ||
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#{{User|Pseudo}} Makes sense to me. Per proposal. | #{{User|Pseudo}} Makes sense to me. Per proposal. | ||
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal. | #{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal. | ||
<s>#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per proposal.</s> | <s>#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per proposal.</s> | ||
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You know, I kind of agree with Hewer here. "Related games" is an extremely broad label that in theory could encompass literally any platforming game starring Mario characters. However, in this article in particular, the "related games" sections is limited to just spin-offs of the mainline games, and ''[[Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic|Doki Doki Panic]]'' as well for some reason. While a good selection that helps the article in my eyes, it seems kind of arbitrary in the context of just "related games". Depending on how this proposal swings, I think we should consider converting the section into a "Spin-offs" section, and kick Doki Doki Panic off the list (since it's relevance to the mainline Mario games is already sufficiently covered in the SMB2 description). [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 17:47, June 6, 2024 (EDT) | You know, I kind of agree with Hewer here. "Related games" is an extremely broad label that in theory could encompass literally any platforming game starring Mario characters. However, in this article in particular, the "related games" sections is limited to just spin-offs of the mainline games, and ''[[Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic|Doki Doki Panic]]'' as well for some reason. While a good selection that helps the article in my eyes, it seems kind of arbitrary in the context of just "related games". Depending on how this proposal swings, I think we should consider converting the section into a "Spin-offs" section, and kick Doki Doki Panic off the list (since it's relevance to the mainline Mario games is already sufficiently covered in the SMB2 description). [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 17:47, June 6, 2024 (EDT) | ||
:Right now this wiki uses the term "spin-off" on series pages to describe [[Wario World]] (which is not a [[Wario Land (series)|Wario Land]] game), the [[Mario & Sonic (series)|Mario & Sonic]] arcade games (which are Mario & Sonic games), and [[Yoshi Touch & Go]] (which is not a [[Yoshi's Island (series)|Yoshi's Island]] game). I think this wiki needs more consistent terminology for series in general | :Right now this wiki uses the term "spin-off" on series pages to describe [[Wario World]] (which is not a [[Wario Land (series)|Wario Land]] game), the [[Mario & Sonic (series)|Mario & Sonic]] arcade games (which are Mario & Sonic games), and [[Yoshi Touch & Go]] (which is not a [[Yoshi's Island (series)|Yoshi's Island]] game). I think this wiki needs more consistent terminology for series in general. {{User:Dive Rocket Launcher/sig}} 04:21, June 8, 2024 (EDT) | ||
