Editing Talk:Super Hammer (move)

== In battle? ==
In the English version, the name "Spin Hammer" only refers to the field move? [https://youtu.be/R0rYYwz6fAI?t=176 Apparently], in the Japanese version, the attack based on this move is also referred to as such, while the English version calls it just "Super Hammer" for some reason. It might be worth moving the battle info here, at least once the remake comes out. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 16:57, December 14, 2023 (EST)
: Or, we wait and see if they even keep Super Hammer or they rename it for the English remake. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:56, December 17, 2023 (EST)
:: Right, hence the "at least once the remake comes out". Although, even if they keep the "Super Hammer" name, that doesn't really change much, it just means they didn't change that particular translation choice. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 11:50, December 17, 2023 (EST)
::: Did they still call this Spin Hammer or did they rename it in the remake? [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:56, May 29, 2024 (EDT)
:::: Huh? It seems both the field move and attack are called "Super Hammer" (or "Super-Hammer", as the case may be) in English in both the original and remake. Where does the name "Spin Hammer" come from? [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 10:39, May 29, 2024 (EDT)
:::: Okay, the name "Spin Hammer" appears nowhere in [https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/rfuffctimubsupm/Text%20Dump%20-%20PM%20TTYD%20%28Clean%29.txt this text dump] of the game, only "Super Hammer"/"Super-Hammer" does. Well then. In that case I suggest moving this page to "Super Hammer (move)" and move the attack info here. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 11:29, May 29, 2024 (EDT)

==Move attack info here and rename to {{Fake link|Super Hammer (move)}}==
{{TPP}}
This is a bit confusing, but I'll try to explain it well.
* From what I've seen, the name "Spin Hammer" is never used in-game. The field move is always called "Super Hammer" in English, the same name as the attack.
* However, in most (possibly all?) other languages (Japanese, Chinese, French, German, Italian, Korean, Spanish), both the field move and the attack use a different name from that of the hammer. Always something along the lines of "Spin Hammer".
* This proposal aims to rename this article to "Super Hammer (move)", as that is the name of the move in the English translation, and move coverage of the attack here as well.

{|  style="text-align: center; margin: 0 auto; border-collapse: collapse;" border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"
!
!Item
!Field move
!Attack
|-
|English
|colspan=3|Super Hammer
|-
|Japanese <br> Chinese <br> French <br> German <br> Italian <br> Korean <br> Spanish
|Super Hammer
|colspan=2|Spin Hammer / Top Hammer / Whirl Strike / Hammer Spin
|}

EDIT: I have added a second option which would also merge the badge/attack [[Spin Smash]] from ''[[Paper Mario]]'', at [[User:Pseudo|Pseudo]]'s request (thanks for pointing it out). That move is mostly identical to its TTYD equivalent. They both cost 2FP to execute, and involve spinning a hammer to knock the enemy in front at those behind it, dealing 1 point of damage. Not only that, but they also have similar (though not identical) Japanese and French names, and the same German name. You can certainly make the case that the move was renamed for consistency with the Hammer and Ultra Hammer moves.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Blinker}}<br>
'''Deadline''': June 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT

===Support (but don't merge [[Spin Smash]])===
#{{User|Blinker}} Per proposal.
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} Perpro posal!
#{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Sure.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Second choice, per proposal.

===Support (and merge [[Spin Smash]])===
#{{User|Blinker}} Second choice.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Preferred choice, as these are essentially the same thing.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} P e r p r o p o s a l !

===Oppose===

===Comments===
I'm guessing that this article was called Spin Hammer because of the fact it involves Mario spinning around with his hammer. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 10:52, May 30, 2024 (EDT)

While I broadly support this proposal, I also want to point out that [[Spin Smash]] from ''[[Paper Mario]]'' is a virtually identical attack to the Super Hammer move, though it can’t be used in the overworld and its Japanese name is different (though both include "Kaiten"). Perhaps this page could be included in the merge as well, at least as an option for this proposal? {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 10:57, May 30, 2024 (EDT)

Also, what of the similar [[Ultra Hammer]] move, which is a direct upgrade to this one in the overworld but a distinct, stronger one in battles? If the Super Hammer move is getting its own article, the Ultra Hammer move should too. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 11:06, May 30, 2024 (EDT)

:Regarding Spin Smash, sure. I have added the option. As for Ultra Hammer, I do want to split that as well, but I feel like that's a whole other can of worms (I would also like to split "Hammer" the move from "Hammer" the item, in the same way "Jump" is split from "Boots", since all Hammer items can be used to perform the regular Hammer attack, and the regular Hammer item can perform many different Hammer attacks, so the item and the move are definitely not the same subject). The Super Hammer is a more straightforward split due to the naming differences, so that's why I went with it first. I'm thinking of maybe making a separate proposal for the others later though. What do you think? [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 11:19, May 30, 2024 (EDT)
::Sounds sensible to me. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 12:12, May 30, 2024 (EDT)
:::Woah, woah, woah. Now I have to think on whether I want "Spin Smash" included in the merge or not! EDIT: Ok, thought about it, and changed my vote. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 12:30, May 30, 2024 (EDT)
@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 ==Move attack info here and rename to {{Fake link|Super Hammer (move)}}==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|6-4-0|Merge and rename, do not merge Spin Smash}}
 This is a bit confusing, but I'll try to explain it well.
 * From what I've seen, the name "Spin Hammer" is never used in-game. The field move is always called "Super Hammer" in English, the same name as the attack.
@@ Line 29: / Line 28: @@
 |}
-EDIT: I have added a second option which would also merge the badge/attack [[Spin Smash]] from ''[[Paper Mario]]'', at [[User:Pseudo|Pseudo]]'s request (thanks for pointing it out). That move is mostly identical to its TTYD equivalent. They both cost 2FP to execute, and involve spinning a hammer to knock the enemy in front at those behind it, dealing 1 point of damage to them. Not only that, but they also have similar (though not identical) Japanese and French names, and the same German name. You can certainly make the case that the move was renamed for consistency with the Hammer and Ultra Hammer moves.
+EDIT: I have added a second option which would also merge the badge/attack [[Spin Smash]] from ''[[Paper Mario]]'', at [[User:Pseudo|Pseudo]]'s request (thanks for pointing it out). That move is mostly identical to its TTYD equivalent. They both cost 2FP to execute, and involve spinning a hammer to knock the enemy in front at those behind it, dealing 1 point of damage. Not only that, but they also have similar (though not identical) Japanese and French names, and the same German name. You can certainly make the case that the move was renamed for consistency with the Hammer and Ultra Hammer moves.
 '''Proposer''': {{User|Blinker}}<br>
@@ Line 39: / Line 38: @@
 #{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Sure.
 #{{User|Pseudo}} Second choice, per proposal.
-#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal.
-#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per proposal.
 ===Support (and merge [[Spin Smash]])===
@@ Line 46: / Line 43: @@
 #{{User|Pseudo}} Preferred choice, as these are essentially the same thing.
 #{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} P e r p r o p o s a l !
-#{{User|Okapii}} Per Pseudo.
 ===Oppose===
@@ Line 60: / Line 56: @@
 ::Sounds sensible to me. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 12:12, May 30, 2024 (EDT)
 :::Woah, woah, woah. Now I have to think on whether I want "Spin Smash" included in the merge or not! EDIT: Ok, thought about it, and changed my vote. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 12:30, May 30, 2024 (EDT)
-: Just moved the page. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:44, June 16, 2024 (EDT)
-== What what what? ==
-Okay, so, I didn't know this when I made the above proposal, but, um... First off, apparently the "Spin Smash" move from ''Paper Mario'' is actually referred to as "Spin Hammer" in the [[Shy Stack]]'s tattle of all places. Not just in the English version, but in the Japanese version as well. So that basically proves that these two moves are the same, and should have been merged. So, I guess we'll tackle that four weeks from now? But also, if you're wondering why this inconsistency exists in the first place, it turns out, in the Japanese version of the original ''Paper Mario'' (but not ''TTYD''), apparently moves unlocked with badges have different names from the badges that unlock them? For example, this badge is 「カイテンナグーリ」(''Kaiten Nagūri''), but the move in battle it unlocks is 「かいてんハンマー」(''Kaiten Hanmā''). And all these alternate move names are missing from the wiki <s>(and I have no way to get them, I only found out about this because of some YouTube video)</s>. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 12:05, June 16, 2024 (EDT)