Editing Talk:Sumo Bro

Isn't the NSMB image a Sledge Bro.? {{User:Monty Mole/sig}}

:I think Sumo Bros. in NSMB resemble the Sledge Bros. from SMB 3. It's probably another name goof-up by Nintendo. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

Check the Sledge Bro page, it says that Nintendo calls them Sumo Bros now. ;P {{User:Luigi hc/sig}}

==Relation to [[Hammer Bro]], or relation to [[Boom Boom]]? Or neither?==
Looking at them, their mouth shape, and their shell front, I'd say these were actually intended to be either related to [[Boom Boom]] or their own distinct species of Koopa. The fact that their Japanese name is "K.K." and has no reference to Hammer Bros helps in that regard. I'd say that the relation to Hammer Bros is a localization thing. But to be sure, would someone who knows Japanese check their description from this guide? It's on page 77 [http://imgur.com/a/UvABP]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:47, 6 September 2017 (EDT)
:The book doesn't directly state that Sumo Bros. have a relationship to Hammer Bros. - it lists their clan as Turtle Tribe, but that is in most Koopa profiles, including Hammer Bros. etc. It does, however, make a comparison to Sledge Bros. in the first sentence.

:「ヒマンブロス(P171)に次ぐ<span class="explain" title="ちょうじゅうりょうきゅう">超重量級</span>キャラだ。」

:("''A super heavyweight character akin to Himan Bros.''")

:By the way, there are also Amazing Flyin' Hammer Brothers, which have the Japanese name "Appare" and isn't directly stated to be related, but the similarity is still noted in the second sentence.

:「ハンマーブロス(P165)の<span class="explain" title="なかま">仲間</span>らしく、どんどんハンマーを<span class="explain" title="な">投</span>げ<span class="explain" title="お">降</span>ろしてくるので<span class="explain" title="おぶ">危</span>ない。」

:("''Seemingly a companion of Hammer Bros., it dangerously throws down its hammers.''")

:I think they're fine the way they are. This is a case where the English names would appear to be making the connection clearer, not quite just making it up. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 23:30, 6 September 2017 (EDT)

Given ''Mario Kart Tour'''s Hammer Bro Tour and a line in ''Paper Mario: Color Splash'' indicating that the core "family" of Bros. consists of Hammer Bro, Boomerang Bro, Fire Bro, and Ice Bro (with the ''Super Mario Maker'' series cementing Sledge Bro as the equivalent of "Big Hammer Bro"), I'm open to reconsidering Sumo Bro's relation to Hammer Bro. If we do, I suggest replacing Hammer Bro as parent species with Sledge Bro as related species, given the above and the fact that Sledge Bro was called Sumo Bro for a while (likely as a consequence of Sledge Bro being renamed in Japanese). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:52, April 8, 2020 (EDT)
:I'd like that. The only ''physical'' indication they're related to Hammer Bros. is the [[Border Bro]]s' faces looking vaguely similar. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:03, April 8, 2020 (EDT)
::OK, so in ''Paper Mario: The Origami King'', this is what Olivia has to say about Sumo Bros. when they appear with Boss Sumo Bro:<blockquote>They're so cuuuuute! Heehee! Do you think they're related? I mean, they must be called Sumo BROS. for a reason... They're the littlest little bros. I've ever seen! We can go a little easy on them, right?</blockquote>The implication is that "bro" is literal and retroactively connected with Boss Sumo Bro, not Hammer Bro. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:30, July 16, 2020 (EDT)
:::The page says that Olivia says "K.K." stands for "Lightning Brothers." {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 14:53, July 20, 2020 (EDT)
::::Yep, here's the Japanese equivalent of that line:<blockquote>うふふーかわいーい！きょうだいかしら？カミナリの　きょうだい…つまり　<span class="explain" title="カミナリきょうだい">K.K.</span>ってことですわね。でもまだ　ちっちゃいみたいですし、ちょっとだけかわいがって　あげちゃいます？</blockquote>It's surprisingly close to the English text, except instead of explaining the "bros." in Sumo Bros., it's finally an explanation for what "K.K." is intended to mean: ''Kaminari Kyōdai'', or Lightning Brothers. It's not outright the "''Burosu''" naming scheme, but it implies that they're meant to be an equivalent to Hammer/Sledge Bro, possibly from replacing one or both during the development of ''Super Mario World''. Sumo Bro also appears after Sledge Bro in the Origami Character Gallery, but this may be coincidental. Should we go with "relative" or "variant" over "comparable"? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:10, July 20, 2020 (EDT)
:::::I'd still prefer "relative," since as you said it doesn't follow the naming scheme, this explanation came years later, and they still look nothing alike. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:29, July 20, 2020 (EDT)
::::::"Appare" doesn't fit within "''Burosu''" naming scheme either, presuming a modern appearance wouldn't rename it a la Sledge Bro, but it's also directly after Hammer Bro in the ''Super Princess Peach'' gallery (though granted, they also have much more in common than Sumo Bro). This could be retroactive on the Japanese side however - maybe even localization-influenced like the Koopalings - but it's odd that "K.K." went completely unexplained until now. It could just as well be true that the localizers were privy to insider documents we never had access to and based the "Sumo Bro" translation on that information in the first place. I'm okay with considering it either, but in the case of relative, how does that affect our writing? Should Sumo Bro be mentioned in Hammer Bros. template like Rocky Wrench in Monty Mole template? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:53, July 20, 2020 (EDT)
:::::::Put it under "relative" or "comparable" and that should cover all bases. In Appare's case, it still has both the hammers and the helmet, even if it has a jacket and a more simplified face. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:24, July 20, 2020 (EDT)
::::::::[[Special:Diff/2994883|Mister Wu]] says that there are no other connections in current books, and takes the above guide as being specific to weight (it did the same thing with [[Special:Diff/2297358|Roy]]), so let's go with "comparable" unless something else comes up. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:38, August 4, 2020 (EDT)
:::::::::Bumping this to say that after some thought, I'd ultimately be OK (if a small bit apprehensive) to consider them derived from Sledge Bro ''specifically'' (ie, not straight from Hammer Bro) considering the proto-leak evidence. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:02, March 14, 2022 (EDT)
::::::::::Which proto-leak evidence are you talking about?  Looking at the two proto-sheets about them, I don't see the cconnection. [[User:Somethingone|Somethingone]] ([[User talk:Somethingone|talk]]) 14:02, May 26, 2022 (EDT)
:::::::::::Simply the fact that Hammer and Sledge are seemingly replaced with AFHB and Sumo Bro for the final, and the amount of other off-kilter replacements and variations the various sheets show. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:19, May 26, 2022 (EDT)

== Sledge bro, Chargin' chuck or Koopa?🤔 ==

There's no way Sumo bros are related to Chargin' chucks, they look nothing like them and don't even charge, they just thump the ground, similar to how Sledge bros ground-pound the floor, they both also have fat bodies, Sumo bros also look similarly to The kind of Koopa bowser is. So sumo bros could be sledge bro/Koopa (bowser's species) hybrid. Just think about what I said.😉 [[Special:Contributions/86.162.66.14|86.162.66.14]] 17:09, May 24, 2024 (EDT)
:As explained in [[Special:Diff/3976520|an older revision's]] summary, Sumo Bros actually ''do'' kinda look like Chargin' Chucks: both are bulky, have round, smooth, dark-colored shells, and have muzzles similar to that of [[Koopa (Bowser's species)]], and more specifically, [[Boom Boom]] (although it's kinda hard to tell with Chuck over there). The one thing Chuck has not what Sumo does have are those rim things around the holes of its shell, where the arms and legs come out of; Boom Boom also has those. Maybe you'd wonder "Well, why is Boom Boom not on here instead?" and the [[Special:Diff/3976520|same revision]] answers that by saying they've trimmed down to what's most relevant, as most similarities Sumo has with Boom Boom, Sumo also has with Chuck, and maybe more than with Boom Boom. {{User:Arend/sig}} 18:07, May 24, 2024 (EDT)
::Personally, at this point I'd say it's fine to consider them a variant of Sledge Bro, considering they're no more or less functionally or physically different from each other than Hammer Bro and AFH Bro, from the same game as Sumo Bro (with the absence of the respective basis that appear in prototypical graphic revisions...), which is already notable for playing fast and loose with previous designs for returning enemies (Koopa Troopa, Cheep Cheep, Dry Bones) and their new variations when compared to said base enemies (Banzai Bill, Galoomba, Porcupuffer, Bony Beetle, Spike Top) - and while some have been changed to be more in-line with the current designs of their bases, others of them have not. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:26, May 24, 2024 (EDT)

I dunno, man, I mean, sure Chargin' Chucks and Sumo Bros are both obese, but the Chucks mouth's more like a beak rather than a muzzle, starting with super mario odyssey, Thier shell begins to look a lot more blueish. and also, sumo bros don't even charge at the player.
Instead, they pound the ground, with lightning, which is also something the Chargin' Chuck doesn't have. Believe me, theirs   no proof that they're related. {{unsigned|31.127.147.101}}

== Sledge Bro derivative? ==

{{talk}}
So it was my <s>idiocy</s> machinations (see above) that led to these being declassified as Hammer Bros. by the wiki, and while I still think that listing them as a ''direct'' variant of Hammer Bros. is incorrect, I ''do'' think they should be treated as variations on ''Sledge'' Bros. Here's why:
#From what we've seen of the gigaleak, Hammer and Sledge Bros were intended to appear in SMW in early revisions. At some point in development, they abruptly disappeared, and AFH Bro and Sumo Bro started showing up instead.
#Their "pounding to make lightning under their platform" behavior is an extension of Sledge Bros.' "pounding to paralyze Mario," but turned into a projectile attack.
#They appear predominantly in pairs, which is a Hammer Bro family specialty.
#When they finally appeared together in NSMBU, they appeared at a similar size to each other.
#K.K., their Japanese name, was determined to stand for "Kaminari Kyodai," meaning "Lightning Brothers," albeit breaking the trend of using "Burosu" for "brothers." It was also determined in the gigaleak that the English names in the credits were being developed in tandem with the Japanese ones, so it's unlikely the themed name is simply a localization addition (like, for instance, [[Little Mouser]]'s was).
#Their debut, ''Super Mario World'' also had a lot of odd-looking variants of pre-existing enemies; aside from AFH Bro itself, there were the Galoombas, Blurps, Porcupuffers, Banzai Bills, Fishin' Boo, Bony Beetle, etc.; not to mention redesigned ''recurring'' enemies like the two-legged Troopas and dinosaur-looking Dry Bones. Sumo Bro having a brown muzzle and a helmet-less head is about on par there.
#The [[Border Bro]]s., characters from ''Superstar Saga'' we classify as Hammer Bros., look far more like Sumo Bros. with Sledge Bro. attire (including helmets and lack of shoes), and their own Japanese name (Kokkyō Kyodai) seems to derive from the "K.K." name Sumo Bros. have.
-[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:46, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
:I dunno, relative, sure, but variant seems a bit too much. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 16:35, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
::Well, as it currently is, they are treated as a completely different "family" of Koopas from Hammer Bros., rather than part of that group, even though it seems they actually are intended as part of that group; just not a direct variation of Hammer Bro itself (and Sledge and Sumo are apparently close enough that PRIMA got them confused for a while...). Basically, they're part of the Hammer Bro family, but more based on Sledge Bro. than Hammer Bro., making them derivative of Sledge Bros. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:41, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
:::I would sooner categorize the stray Goomba-likes (Galoomba, Stu, Beanie, Burrbo..) as variants than this. But again, I can still see myself supporting listing Sumo Bro as a relative of the other Bros. Just not as a "variant", you know? They feel more like "weird cousins" at most. That's not a very logic-based agument, but that's how it goes sometimes. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 17:19, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
::::Hrm. Would the "weird cousins" also apply to the relations between Boom Booms, Chargin' Chucks, and Shovas? Because there's definitely ''some'' sort of connection there, too (and less definitely but still possibly Broozer)... there's also how [[Sharpea]], [[Spikey (Super Mario RPG)|Spikey]], [[Spiny Shroopa]], [[Spike Blop]], and [[Spike Koopa]] are all listed as variants of Spiny currently despite tending to have just as many differences, and AFH Bro doesn't really look that much like Hammer Bro (being a flat-faced, dot-eyed midget). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:22, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
:::::Personally I wouldn't include the Mario & Luigi bizarro versions of enemies (that series loves those, and I'd rather they be treated consistently), and not quite sure about Shovas, mostly because I still don't know what to make of them. Otherwise, that sounds right enough to me. <small>Although A.F.H.Bro does have the helmet and throw hammers which is still more than Sumo has going for it.</small> [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 18:07, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Shova has the French and Spanish names loosely indicating a connection to Sumo Bro and Chargin' Chuck, respectively. Though on the topic of A.F.H. Bro - that's similar to Shova and Sumo Bro in that the Japanese name gives no immediately obvious indication of a variant of Hammer Bro, yet it's clearly intended to be one. That's one thing that A.F.H. Bro and Sumo Bro have in common over Chargin' Chuck and Shova: almost every single translation indicates the Bros. connection was intentional, and if leaks taught us anything, it's that the translators really might have more resources to inform their decisions than previously assumed. So, I've decided that I'm fine with the Sledge Bro idea. Besides, there must be good reason why three games' worth of material kept getting them consistently mixed up. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:42, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
You do make a good point, sumo bros and sledge bros
Are both obese, have bro in Thier name and crushing the 
Ground. ([[User talk:31.127.147.101|talk]]) 7:22, October 7, 2024 (EDT)

== Sumo bros are not chargin chuck relatives ==

Look man, I know sumo bros and Chargin' Chucks are both bulky, and have dark coloured shells but they're still different. Sumo bros are more like a sledge bro/Bowser's species hybrid. While Chargin' Chucks are bulky hammer bro football players I think? Whatever. They're still nothing like each other. [[Special:Contributions/86.166.45.241|86.166.45.241]] 15:17, December 11, 2024 (EST) 

They don't even have any similarities to [[Chargin' Chuck]]s, only [[Sledge Bro]]s.
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	Look man, I know sumo bros and Chargin' Chucks are both bulky, and have dark coloured shells but they're still different. Sumo bros are more like a sledge bro/Bowser's species hybrid. While Chargin' Chucks are bulky hammer bro football players I think? Whatever. They're still nothing like each other. [[Special:Contributions/86.166.45.241\|86.166.45.241]] 15:17, December 11, 2024 (EST)		Look man, I know sumo bros and Chargin' Chucks are both bulky, and have dark coloured shells but they're still different. Sumo bros are more like a sledge bro/Bowser's species hybrid. While Chargin' Chucks are bulky hammer bro football players I think? Whatever. They're still nothing like each other. [[Special:Contributions/86.166.45.241\|86.166.45.241]] 15:17, December 11, 2024 (EST)

	They don't even have any similarities to [[Chargin' Chuck]]s, only [[Sledge Bro]]s. [[Special:Contributions/148.252.144.160\|148.252.144.160]] 02:04, January 18, 2025 (EST) sledge bros I get, but what similarities do they share with Chargin' Chucks? [[Special:Contributions/90.216.251.105\|90.216.251.105]] 11:27, February 25, 2025 (EST)		They don't even have any similarities to [[Chargin' Chuck]]s, only [[Sledge Bro]]s.