View source for Talk:Spiny

== Species Question ==

Are spinies considered to be koopas or beetles?--[[User:Fg|Fg]] 19:02, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Spinies are a tricky enemy. They have some characteristics of both, but I think they're Koopas, albeit four-legged ones. {{User:Monty Mole/sig}}

:They are Koopas, but I believe are a distant relative of Buzzy Beetles. They are kinda the bridge between the two species. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

== What could make this article better? ==

I spent a long time expanding the article, and I would like to know what could make it even better. Any suggestions? '''[[User:InfectedShroom|InfectedShroom.]]'''[[Image:infectoicon.png]] 
I have a long-time goal in mind...

:The article is real nice, but the only problem is that there isn't enough pics. There really need to be more pics, and at least one pic in the Other Appearances section. <span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>&middot;</tt></small>

== Super Mario Galaxy 2 Prima Guide ==

In the Super Mario Galaxy 2 Prima Guide it referees to them as bugs. I think we should mention this. But it refrees Swoopers as bats, Hammer Bros. as koopa-''like'', Scuttlebugs as Sprongs and Big Boo as Mega Boo. Should we mention this.

The Prima Guides are often a bit flaky, as I don't think that they are made by Nintendo. I have the guide for NSMBWii and it calls [[Fishbones]] Wet Bones. I'd leave it for now. {{User:Supershroom/sig}}

==Gallery==
We need a gallery for Spinies because there are a lot of images.--[[File:YoshiMP8Artwork.png|35px]][[User:YoshiGo99|YoshiGo99]][[File:YoshiNSMBW.png|35px]] 20:20, 14 March 2011 (EDT)

==Merge Spiny with Spike Top==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|red|KEEP SPLIT 1-21}}

I think we should Merge Spike Top with Spiny. They are pretty much the same aren't they? The only difference is that Spike Tops have one spike.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Superfiremario}} <br>
'''Deadline:''' April 30, 2011, 23:59 GMT

====Merge====
#{{User|It's-a-me-Mario!}} Per Superfiremario's proposal!

====Keep Seperated====
#{{User|Goomba's Shoe15}} Uh i hate to break it to you but Spiny and Spike tops are not the same in fact there not even part of the same species one is a Koopa and the other is a Buzzy Beetle
#{{User|UltraMario3000}} It's not like [[Spiked Goomba]]s are merged with Goombas.
#{{User|FourPaperHeroes}} Actually all three are a species of Koopa but Spike Tops are hardly related to Spinies, they're more closely related to Buzzy Beetles and they are different enough to remain a separate article.
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per all.
#{{User|DKPetey99}} Per Goomba's Shoe15 and my comments below!
#{{User|Tails777}} Yeah, the 2 are too different. Per all.
#{{User|YoshiGo99}} Spinys don't have mouths and the shell is a lighter shade of red than the Spike tops. Spike tops have red eyes and crawl on walls and floors, and ceilings.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - They are ''COMPLETELY'' different things. Different looks, different abilities, different names in ''every'' language, appearing side-by-side in the same games doing different things. Merging them would be ''completely'' mental.
#{{User|Zero777}} They are obviously two different species, per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Spike Tops can't be killed with fire.  They are in fact a cross between a Buzzy and a Spiny.
#{{User|SWFlash}} The ''only'' similarity is that they're both have red shells, but that's it.
#{{User|DK and Diddy Kong vs Bowser and Bowser Jr.}} Per Platform and SWFlash.
#{{User|SuperYoshiBros}} Per all.
#{{User|Reddragon19k}} Per all! Different looks, different names, everything!
#{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} - Completely different, per all.
#{{User|Superfiremario}} Horrible Proposal
#{{User|Steverocks27}} Per all! Their only similarities are their red shells and that they both have more than 0 spikes!
#{{User|Mikiuz}} Per all. The name of the Spiny is different to the one of the Spike Top in all languages and they are different species.
#{{User|Mario304}} Per all.
#{{User|Ultrahammer5365}} Per all. They are ''entirely'' different species. You can't merge 2 enemies based on vague similarities.
#{{User|yoshiyoshiyoshi}}Silliest Proposal '''ever''' :P ''worse'' than merging [[Bowser]] with [[Barney Bubble]] :D

====Comments====
your date is wrong it ends on the 29th {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
:Actually, it ends on the 30th (at 23:59 GMT). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 23:45, 15 April 2011 (EDT)

there clearly not the same thing just look at them {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
http://www.mariowiki.com/images/0/0a/LakituSpiny.gif 
http://www.mariowiki.com/images/4/44/SpiketopNSMBW.png

::Yes and Spike Tops are sub-species of Buzzy Beetles. If they were sub-species of Spinies then maybe we will have a stronger argument, but highly different! {{User:DKPetey99/Sig}} 14:54, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

:::These are buzzy beetles, as they have the same form. Spinies don't have a dark space in them between the eyes. Sorry buddy, but I won't vote, for the sake of the wiki.

--{{User:Boowhoplaysgames/Sig}} 16:34, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

No good proposal I made, eh?
{{User:Superfiremario/Sig}} 15:45, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

Since the proposer is opposing and blocked(:-/), should this be deleted? [[File:Red_Yoshi_TTYD.png|30px]] [[User:Yoshiwaker|<span style=color:#F96300>Yoshi</span>]][[User talk:Yoshiwaker|<span style=color:#F00>waker</span>]] [[File:PMCS Orange Yoshi.png|30px]] 17:41, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

:::They are completly different. Spinies are immune to fire; Spike Tops are not. Besides, they are seperated in the New Super Mario Bros. Book and should be seperate hear. {{User: Phantom Bowser/Sig}}

Last time I played [[Super Mario Bros.]] I killed Spinies with Fireballs. [[File:YS WhiteShyGuy.png|35px]][[User:IceShadow1199|<span style="font-family:tahoma;color:##0000FF">IceShadow</span>]] [[User talk:IceShadow1199|talk]] &middot; [[Special:Contributions/IceShadow|edits]])  18:47, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

== images ==

I think the spiny article needs more images. {{User:GEX/Sig}}

== Huh? ==
:::It says this article needs to be expanded to include more information, but there is nothing left to include. And it should be re-written in the correct verb tense, but it already has the same verb tense that we are supposed to use. Why?[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L  Beware my fury!]] 20:18, 18 January 2012 (EST)

== Problem I corrected. ==

I noticed that someone named the Mario Strikers section, the Mario ''Football'' series. This is the British and Australian name. I want to inform who wrote this that this the '''American''' Super Mario Wiki. I am not angered, but remember the American names next time. Thank you.

[[File:Kamekwand.gif|frameless|left]] [[User:KingKamek|KingKamek]] ([[User talk:KingKamek|talk]])
:Well an old wiki policy did made it required to change the NTSC names to PAL names due to the game being released first on those regions. So you shouldn't really blame the editors for this. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 01:54, 24 July 2013 (EDT)

I don't know what to tell you but Spinies in [[Paper Mario: Sticker Star]] are very hard to time when attacking you. Can't you just use a Frog Suit or a Super Boot Sticker so that way they don't hit you? But you have to have timing though or else you will get hit. {{unsigned|Powow66}}

== Umm.. Weren't spinies in Dream Team? ==

I'm sure I've seen spinies in Dreamy Driftwood Shore once. Why doesn't it say it's in Dream Team? {{unsigned|Kyleallt}}

==''Kirby'' series==
[[wikirby:Togezo|Togezo]] is currently mentioned briefly in this article under names in other languages, but should it be expanded into its own cameo section a la ''The Legend of Zelda'' series? The ''Zelda'' enemy was confirmed to be a ''Mario''-based element in the ''Link's Awakening'' Nintendo Switch remake through one of the ''Mario''-related figures, despite its somewhat different appearance and behavior (though see Shy Guy). I think it's likely that the ''Kirby'' series enemy is in the same boat - it has two Japanese names which are both directly based on the English and Japanese name for ''Mario'' Spiny ("Spiny" in ''Kirby's Adventure'' and "Togezo" in ''Kirby's Dream Land 3''), has a shell attack in ''Kirby's Adventure'' that would later influence a similar move by the Spiny enemies in ''Four Swords'' and ''The Minish Cap'', and was replaced in the GBA remake ([[wikirby:Capsule J|another enemy]] is believed to be replaced due to a similarity with {{fandom|twinbee|TwinBee (character)|another property}}). The only thing I'm unsure about is its design, which is redone in a style to better fit with the ''Kirby'' aesthetic, but if the same can be said of the later ''Zelda'' design and Spike Top can also inexplicably lose a set of limbs, so can Spiny. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:50, September 29, 2019 (EDT)
:I'd support treating the Kirby enemy as a cameo. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 08:00, September 29, 2019 (EDT)
:Sure. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 08:11, September 29, 2019 (EDT)
:Yeah, I've been meaning to ask this for ages. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:19, September 29, 2019 (EDT)
:Another point is how the KA attack greatly resembles the Spiny Egg attack in the first two ''Paper Mario'' games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:48, September 29, 2019 (EDT)
::All right, so consensus so far is to include it in the article proper, but I want to bring up one more thing I noticed for completeness' sake: on [https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%88%E3%82%B2%E3%82%BE%E3%83%BC#%E5%AE%A2%E6%BC%94 Japanese Wikipedia] [https://kirby.fandom.com/ja/wiki/%E3%83%88%E3%82%B2%E3%82%BE%E3%83%BC (and Wikia)] pages, Spiny from ''Kirby's Adventure'' and Togezo from ''Kirby's Dream Land 3'' are apparently considered to be two different enemies, with only the latter being the ''Mario'' enemy. However, I disagree with that assessment for the following reasons: 1) both names share the same exact root with the ''Mario'' enemy and it seems far more likely that Spiny was simply renamed to Togezo to make the connection more obvious to Japanese audiences, who would likely not be aware of the ''Mario'' enemy's English name, 2) the unnamed appearance of the enemy from ''Kirby's Dream Course'' depicts a middling design with traits of both the earlier and later ''Kirby'' appearances, and 3) while its offensive move was swapped with a defensive one (which is reminiscent of [[wikirby:Spikey|Spikey]] from ''Kirby's Dream Land 2''), a couple of other regular enemies have had their attack patterns change over time (for example, [[wikirby:Dekabu|Dekabu]]). If there are no objections, we'll consider them to be the same enemy like WiKirby. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:53, September 30, 2019 (EDT)
:::The wikiA claims that JP supplemental material for KDC called it Supaini like KA. It went from Spiny Egg to Bony Beetle in my eyes. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:51, September 30, 2019 (EDT)
:::Not sure if I trust them, but I looked it up and it seems that there was a Shogakukan guide after all, so that info is probably correct. I'd liken this situation to how [[Talk:Piranha Plant#This is the Ultimate|rigid]] Japanese Wikipedia generally is when it comes to name changes. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:18, September 30, 2019 (EDT)
:::Well, I remembered that I actually happen to be the one who [https://kirby.fandom.com/index.php?diff=174889 added] said info there, back when I was active on Wikia. I just forgot all about it. <small><small>So it must be correct.</small></small> [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:40, September 30, 2019 (EDT)
:::Also, in case there's doubt, pages 287 and 295 of ''Playing with Power: Nintendo NES Classics'' call it Togezo. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:40, October 15, 2019 (EDT)

== Mario Movie name ==
I think it's a bit of a stretch that we are considering that the name of the Spinies the movie as Spiny Shells which came from... a tweet. Given how inaccurate this name is and how one-off that tweet was ([[List_of_controversies#Wigger_Wednesday|there are instances of tweets being misspelled and such]]), I don't think we should use this as the actual name and we should refer to them as Spinies. Sure, the movie has some [[Mini Mushroom|creative]] [[Super Mushroom|liberties]] [[Spiny Shell (blue)|on]] [[Banzai Bill|names]] but this one was likely an oversight from the Twitter account who probably accidently put Spiny Shells. That is unless the sequel decides to do that whithin the movie. --[[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 19:43, September 8, 2023 (EDT)

==Mario Kart==
Have they ever appeared in Mario Kart. The only instant that I know of is the badges in Tour, but did they appear anywhere else?[[User:OngoingTalent13|OngoingTalent13]] ([[User talk:OngoingTalent13|talk]]) 00:56, December 29, 2023 (EST)
:Their [[Spiny Shell (blue)|shells]] sure have. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:20, December 29, 2023 (EST)

== Refer to ''The Super Mario Bros. Movie'' Spiny Shells as Spinies ==

{{TPP}}
{{quote2|Koopas! Goombas! Whatever '''those''' things are!|Bowser|The Super Mario Bros. Movie}}
Here is one of the most baffling things I've seen this wiki do, and that's to refer to the Spinies from ''The Super Mario Bros. Movie'' as '''Spiny Shells'''. For context, ''this name does not even appear in the movie'' (in fact, the joke Bowser ''doesn't even know their name'') but rather, a single off-handed Tweet. Now, I'm not sure how the movie's Twitter account goes. Still, I'm pretty sure this is a case of circular reporting where someone who managed the account mistook their name. Spinies had tons of precedent up to that point of being called what we refer to them today. Now, the movie gives some creative liberties on names, notably [[Banzai Bill|Bomber Bill]]. Still, at least that appears in the movie, while Spinies don't get a name-drop. We have a habit of using names from other sources. Still, for something like this, we can chalk this up as a simple error and not what the Spinies should be called in the movie unless the sequel wants to call them that. [[Ptooie#Mario_Kart_8_Deluxe|Even Nintendo has made mistakes in Tweets when naming their subjects.]] We really shouldn't use apparent mistakes like this as their proper name.

'''Proposer''': {{User|TheUndescribableGhost}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|TheUndescribableGhost}} Per proposal
#{{User|Dark-Boy-1up}} Mistakes happen and that's fine, but that does not mean we have to roll with the error.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Combined with the movie calling the [[Spiny Shell (blue)|Spiny Shell ''item'' from Mario Kart the "Blue Shell"]], rolling with the name "Spiny Shell" for these guys because of Exactly One Tweet feels rather silly. While we would understand if this was maybe more consistent, the fact it's literally just one tweet saying this in regards to a scene where the entire joke is that Bowser himself ''doesn't know what the name is'', giving plausible deniability that perhaps the misname was an intentional joke (though not likely), doesn't exactly esteem us to the Spiny Shell name.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} There's already precedent for overlooking obvious goofs for established subjects like this, as long as it's still mentioned in the article. For example, the only NSMB2-related material that mentions Scuttlebugs and Crowbers is the Prima Guide which just calls them Spiders and Crows, but we still use their regular names while covering that game. If they were actually called this in the movie itself I'd most likely oppose, but like the Prima Guides, this comes from a source that's farther removed from the team that actually worked on the product.
#{{User|Super Game Gear}} Per all.
#{{User|Princess Peach Fan}} Per all. It's clearly an error and given that their names were never said in the film ("Whatever those things are!"), move it.

====Oppose====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} They were called "Spiny Shells" in at least two [https://twitter.com/supermariomovie/status/1645854665018429451 different] [https://twitter.com/supermariomovie/status/1651269921303674901 tweets] by the Mario Movie account, not just one. (EDIT: on [https://www.facebook.com/supermariomovie/videos/theyre-spiny-shells-and-they-have-feelingssupermariomovie/741897647615718 Facebook] and [https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrgaGi5p4_G/ Instagram] too!) That's not to mention that, to my knowledge, neither of these instances of a supposed error have been corrected, unlike the Wiggler Wednesday thing and Ptooie being confused for another enemy. At this point, there's technically more evidence to suggest the name was a genuine creative liberty than there is in favor of it being unintentional. Almost a year ago there was a discussion surrounding [[Talk:Construction Site Fight#Swap this article with Balloon Barrage: proposal edition|"Construction Site Fight"]], a level title from ''Donkey Kong Land'' that many found to be 99% erroneous, and even that discussion had users extremely divided given that the title itself was maintained in later official material; I'd say we have even less reason to meddle with Spiny's given name for the Mario movie.

====Comments====
1. I'd like to reiterate what I said in my vote that the name was used in two separate tweets (and reiterated by official accounts on other social media sites). The proposer's claim that it only came from one tweet is plainly false.<br>2. @Waluigi Time, those tweets are the only official movie-adjacent material to namedrop Spinies. It doesn't matter that the movie creators' didn't come up with it, all that matters is that there is no other source (higher-priority or otherwise) to call them something else for the movie. For that matter, I disagree with how Scuttlebug's and Crowber's names are handled in info related to NSMB2, especially given how that's inconsistent with the treatment other [[Skewer#Donkey_Kong_Country_Returns_.2F_Donkey_Kong_Country_Returns_3D|subjects]] [[Pokey_Head#Super_Mario_Sunshine|receive]]. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:44, January 4, 2024 (EST)
: The Skewers in Donkey Kong Country Returns aren't actually Skewers, they're Skewer-like objects. Also, in the Japanese version of Sunshine, Pokey Heads were called Sanbo Headdo there. PRIMA's strategy guide for Galaxy 2 was referring to them by their actual Japanese translations. Also, it was determined for Crowbers that PRIMA was just using a generic term (I don't count the Scuttlebug because even MP7 called them Spiders). [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 16:25, January 4, 2024 (EST)