Editing Talk:Spike Top

I'm not completely sure (I haven't played in a while), but don't Spike Tops appear in ''[[Super Mario World]]'' and ''[[New Super Mario Bros.]]''. -- [[User:Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]

==Merge Spike Top and [[Red Spike Buzzy]]==  

I'm gonna try this again the reason i feel that these two should be merged together is because there is very little difference between the regular Spike Tops and the Red Spike Buzzy both are red both have spikes on their heads and to top that off the Spike Tops in Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. I would also like to point out that we have had mergers like this before such as [[Goby]] [[Shy Away]] etc. I think that there just isn't enough of a physical difference between the two to justify having two separate articles.

== Split Spike Top (fast) from this article ==

If we're splitting "[[Talk:Note Block#Split Note Block and Music Block|Note Block but it makes different sounds]]" and "[[Talk:Koopa Clown Car#Split Fire Koopa Clown Car from this article|Koopa Clown Car but it spits fireballs]]", then I believe the teal-bodied, blue-shelled, faster Spike Tops also from ''Super Mario Maker'' are no exception.

== Merge Red Spike Top with this article ==

This should've been done a long time ago. A Red Spike Top is the exact same thing as a regular Spike Top, just a different color than the other Spike Tops in ''TTYD''. It has the same stats and everything. These aren't like [[White Clubba]]s, which have higher stats, a resistance to ice, a weakness to fire, and an extra attack that normal [[Clubba]]s don't have, it's just a Spike Top that's red. Which is the default color for Spike Tops in every other game aside from ''SPM'', including the other ''Paper Mario'' games. Since color variations generally don't get their own articles and ''especially'' after that proposal to merge the Yoshi colors, there really is no excuse for this anymore.

== Merge Red Spike Top with Spike Top, Take Three ==

{{quote|Aside from their colors, the two types of Spike Tops in The Thousand-Year Door are identical.|You don't say?}}

== Consider Spike Top derived from both Buzzy Beetles and Spinies ==

When Spinies and Buzzy Beetles were introduced in ''Super Mario Bros.'', it was clear they were related in some way beyond both being turtles/"Koopas," but what the relation was wasn't clear, seeing as they acted as polar opposites (one's immune to jumps, one's immune to fire). Spike Tops are, for all intents and purposes, a "best of both worlds" (or for players, worst) combination of Spinies and Buzzies: they're spiked ''and'' hard shelled, while their wall-crawling ability is an extension of both species' previously established ability to walk on ceilings. This extends to their designs, and while it was more obvious in the earlier days:

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'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>

===Support===

#{{User|Blinker}} I suppose the variant confusion can be tack-led some other time.

#{{User|Biggestman}} I can't believe the enemy with the Japanese name of "Togemet" isn't considered a variant of "Togezo" and "Met". Here's where I would include a pun like everyone else but that's besides the point.

===Oppose===

#{{User|SmokedChili}} So, a bunch of similarities Spike Top has with Buzzy Beetle and Spiny means it's related to both as an a+b=c and proving the deeper relation between the two SMB enemies (what?) while its own take as a spiny enemy is just a design oddity from the SMW days... yeah right, this sounds like throwing in everything and the kitchen sink as the evidence because similarities while anything against Spike Top being Spiny derivative is just oddities that can be handwaved. As for the Japanese name, by that same logic most other spiked enemies are derived from Spiny because surely it must be tied to Spiny's Japanese name, or most winged enemies are derived from Koopa Paratroopa since their Japanese name contains "Pata" from Patapata.

#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} I'm not convinced. Per SmokedChili. Sorry, or not sorry, this idea falls "b" (if you know what i mean) This proposal seems to be built on random observation/assumption. You may think i'm being unreasonable for assuming this is a coincidence, but i stand by what i said.

#{{User|Arend}} After abstaining and thinking what to pick... ehhh, I oppose... per all. I don't doubt that Spinies and Buzzies are related, and in a sense, so would be Spike Tops, since they're clearly a variant of Buzzies, but calling Spike Tops outright a variant of Spinies as well? It sounds too speculative. Like DrippingYellow said, "toge" is already a Japanese word for "thorn" or "spike", and has been implemented in ''various'' Japanese titles for spiked enemies and objects, not just "Togezō". And, may I also remind people that in most titles, particularly modern ''Mario'' games, all the ''Paper Mario'' games, and classic styles in the ''Super Mario Maker'' games (which opted to give Rocky Wrench his shell from SMB3 in those classic styles), Spike Top clearly takes way more from Buzzy Beetle than Spiny? For goodness sake, in ''The Thousand-Year Door'' and ''Super Paper Mario'', [[:File:PMTTYD Spike Top Sprite.png|Spike Top]] is literally just [[:File:PMTTYD Buzzy Beetle Sprite.png|Buzzy Beetle]] with a spike on top and no other differences, whereas in the same games, [[:File:Spiny PMTTYD.png|Spiny]] has a ''completely different head with bulging eyes, a lighter skintone, and a split claw akin to a cloven hoof''. I think that is supposed to say that Spike Tops were always supposed to be Buzzies first.

#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per all, but especially highlighting how in ''The Thousand-Year Door'' and ''Super Paper Mario'', the designs of Buzzy Beetles and Spike Tops are ''exactly'' the same, color and all, except for the spike. Fishing Boos are a different case: for the Boo connection, their name is quite literally "Fishing '''Boo'''", and in terms of its design, in ''Super Mario World'', it uses the same sprite as [[Fishin' Lakitu]] for the fishing rod. Neither of these relationships can be drawn between Spike Tops and Spinies; in fact, to make the comparison is pointless.

===Comments===

::::::Aside from the spikes, though, it's not given any level of connection; note the spiked ones in ''Paper Mario'' looked waaaaaaaaaaaay different from either Buzzy or Spiny, unlike Spike Top which still follows the same size parameters, body plan, and animation as both of them. This at least has the JP name supporting it and the Tiny Spinies being Spike Tops. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:55, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

:::::::I should probably note that the "Tiny Spinies" thing is only in the English version of the game, and the other localizations, including the Japanese one, have their names refer to their spikiness. Also, aside from the red-colored shells, these red Spike Tops still look identical to Buzzy Beetles, while Spinies in comparison still have different-shaped heads, bulging eyes, a lighter skintone, and cloven claws.<br>Plus, the JP name might still be just a combination of "toge" and "met", since "toge" is an actual Japanese word meaning "spike" or "thorn". It could maybe ''allude'' to "Togezō", but moreso in the way the "pata" from "[[Paragoomba|Patakuribō]]" is a reference to "[[Koopa Paratroopa|Patapata]]", and we sure ain't gonna call those variants of each other anytime soon. {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:31, May 28, 2024 (EDT)