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[[Piro Dangle]]. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]
[[Piro Dangle]]. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]
=="Sparky"==


=="Sparky"==
What we have here is a creature with a plethora of different, but similar Japanese names, while [[Piro Dangle]] and [[Wire Trap]], which both share a Japanese name with one of those but have different English names,m are listed separate, despite still attacking about the same. Either way, some of these travel on wires, some travel along surfaces, who are we to say they're intended to be the same thing? I find it rather unlikely that an enemy from ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' was intended to be in ''Yume Kojo: Doki Doki Panikku''. I'm not sure that this page should be renamed so much as split. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:18, 5 November 2017 (EST)
What we have here is a creature with a plethora of different, but similar Japanese names, while [[Piro Dangle]] and [[Wire Trap]], which both share a Japanese name with one of those but have different English names,m are listed separate, despite still attacking about the same. Either way, some of these travel on wires, some travel along surfaces, who are we to say they're intended to be the same thing? I find it rather unlikely that an enemy from ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' was intended to be in ''Yume Kojo: Doki Doki Panikku''. I'm not sure that this page should be renamed so much as split. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:18, 5 November 2017 (EST)
:For what it's worth, while ''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten'' [http://i.imgur.com/MF1dZ7H.jpg is] [http://i.imgur.com/HYeUOpv.jpg a] [http://i.imgur.com/dqFFR51.jpg wee] [http://i.imgur.com/3OabVR8.jpg bit] [http://i.imgur.com/z9vOPNp.jpg split]-[http://i.imgur.com/Z6Iudls.jpg heavy], it '''does''' group the ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' and Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' Sparks [https://i.imgur.com/rMet0zG.jpg together], even though they're both pretty different and the change is noted in the description. It also lists the ''Super Mario USA'' Spark separately, but it is also mildly [https://i.imgur.com/lVHkZlH.jpg renamed] from the ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' Spark, with which it shares its name as stated in its profile (it, along with Tweeter and Flurry, wasn't listed in the ''Doki Doki Panic'' manual). Although the original intention isn't clear, given the existing ''Mario'' references already in ''Doki Doki Panic'' (POW, Stars...), I see little point in splitting off that game's Spark - the Sparkies in ''March of the Minis'' / ''Mini-Land Mayhem!'' even have a similar design, which would seem to solidify the connection. I'm also willing to believe that the Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' (and, by extension, ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'') Sparks/Sparkies are at least a reference to the ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' version. I think, at the very least, Wire Traps should be grouped together with the wire Spark(y)s; Piro Dangle, though, is obviously a fire creature instead of an electrical one, so I believe that one is a case of coincidental naming. That said, it does make sense to split the article between the enemy's platform-based and wire-based versions, but at the end of the day, both types would still be Sparkies going by recent, common naming. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:25, 5 November 2017 (EST)
:For what it's worth, while ''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten'' [http://i.imgur.com/MF1dZ7H.jpg is] [http://i.imgur.com/HYeUOpv.jpg a] [http://i.imgur.com/dqFFR51.jpg wee] [http://i.imgur.com/3OabVR8.jpg bit] [http://i.imgur.com/z9vOPNp.jpg split]-[http://i.imgur.com/Z6Iudls.jpg heavy], it '''does''' group the ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' and Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' Sparks [https://i.imgur.com/rMet0zG.jpg together], even though they're both pretty different and the change is noted in the description. It also lists the ''Super Mario USA'' Spark separately, but it is also mildly [https://i.imgur.com/lVHkZlH.jpg renamed] from the ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' Spark, with which it shares its name as stated in its profile (it, along with Tweeter and Flurry, wasn't listed in the ''Doki Doki Panic'' manual). Although the original intention isn't clear, given the existing ''Mario'' references already in ''Doki Doki Panic'' (POW, Stars...), I see little point in splitting off that game's Spark - the Sparkies in ''March of the Minis'' / ''Mini-Land Mayhem!'' even have a similar design, which would seem to solidify the connection. I'm also willing to believe that the Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' (and, by extension, ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'') Sparks/Sparkies are at least a reference to the ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' version. I think, at the very least, Wire Traps should be grouped together with the wire Spark(y)s; Piro Dangle, though, is obviously a fire creature instead of an electrical one, so I believe that one is a case of coincidental naming. That said, it does make sense to split the article between the enemy's platform-based and wire-based versions, but at the end of the day, both types would still be Sparkies going by recent, common naming. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:25, 5 November 2017 (EST)
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:::::i'm Confused...i Think We Should Split Them For Now? [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]
:::::i'm Confused...i Think We Should Split Them For Now? [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]


==Split Magnet Sparky from Spark==
== Split Magnet Sparky from Spark ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{SettledTPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|8-0|split}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|8-0|split}}
Given our recent re-split of [[Mega Mole]] and [[Morty Mole]], I consider this to be a similar case. Plus, the plethora of confusion surrounding the aforementioned case doesn't apply here, as Magnet Sparkies actually have patterns that make them unique from Sparkies; they only travel along [[Magnet (object)|Magnet]] edges, and they enter certain (officially named) generators on the Magnets for brief periods of time.
Given our recent re-split of [[Mega Mole]] and [[Morty Mole]], I consider this to be a similar case. Plus, the plethora of confusion surrounding the aforementioned case doesn't apply here, as Magnet Sparkies actually have patterns that make them unique from Sparkies; they only travel along [[Magnet (object)|Magnet]] edges, and they enter certain (officially named) generators on the Magnets for brief periods of time.


'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br>
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' April 23, 2018, 23:59 GMT
'''Deadline:''' April 23, 2018, 23:59 GMT
===Support===
===Support===
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal.
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::I am honestly so confused.[[User:DerpyLobster|DerpyLobster]] 1:15, 9 April 2018 (EDT)
::I am honestly so confused.[[User:DerpyLobster|DerpyLobster]] 1:15, 9 April 2018 (EDT)


==Piro Dangle==
== Piro Dangle ==
 
{{talk}}
It would seem that [[Piro Dangle]] has an identical Japanese name. This, combined with both being spheres with masklike eyes surrounded by a field of vague orange damaging glow that travel around platforms, makes me think that perhaps they are intended to be the same thing. While they are slower than the SMB2 enemy and occasionally lose their "spark," so to speak, plenty of SMB2 enemies appeared in the game with different behavior from before. Additionally, unlike [[Harry Hedgehog]], it wasn't renamed to be a subtype in YNI, and unlike [[Spiked Fun Guy (Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island)|Spiked Fun Guy]], they aren't replaced with the original counterpart. Anyways, there is the "electricity" vs "fire" debate, which I personally find a little silly, as [[Sumo Bro]] did the same thing (though that one could be argued as to depend on the floor). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:29, 7 December 2018 (EST)
It would seem that [[Piro Dangle]] has an identical Japanese name. This, combined with both being spheres with masklike eyes surrounded by a field of vague orange damaging glow that travel around platforms, makes me think that perhaps they are intended to be the same thing. While they are slower than the SMB2 enemy and occasionally lose their "spark," so to speak, plenty of SMB2 enemies appeared in the game with different behavior from before. Additionally, unlike [[Harry Hedgehog]], it wasn't renamed to be a subtype in YNI, and unlike [[Spiked Fun Guy (Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island)|Spiked Fun Guy]], they aren't replaced with the original counterpart. Anyways, there is the "electricity" vs "fire" debate, which I personally find a little silly, as [[Sumo Bro]] did the same thing (though that one could be argued as to depend on the floor). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:29, 7 December 2018 (EST)
:Isn't this similar to the [[#"Sparky"|talk section above]]? Correct me if I'm wrong. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 21:12, 7 December 2018 (EST)
:Isn't this similar to the [[#"Sparky"|talk section above]]? Correct me if I'm wrong. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 21:12, 7 December 2018 (EST)
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:::::::::So you mean by "another insanely-different redesign of an SMB2 enemy in SMW2" that you think that Spiked Fun Guy is intended to be the Pokey itself? Also, while Spiked Fun Guy (Pokey)'s design were changed to their actual appearance, Piro Dangles remain their previous design. For Needlenoses, they are clearly intended to be different things despite their Japanese name, as they have no entry in the Yoshi's New Island Guide, nor mentioned on the normal Pokey's. Spiked Fun Guy's appearance is definitively more closer to Pokey's. There was a proposal to split both Spiked Fun Guys, with one option that had splitting Yoshi's Story Spiked Fun Guy while merging the Yoshi's Island one. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 06:55, 20 December 2018 (EST)
:::::::::So you mean by "another insanely-different redesign of an SMB2 enemy in SMW2" that you think that Spiked Fun Guy is intended to be the Pokey itself? Also, while Spiked Fun Guy (Pokey)'s design were changed to their actual appearance, Piro Dangles remain their previous design. For Needlenoses, they are clearly intended to be different things despite their Japanese name, as they have no entry in the Yoshi's New Island Guide, nor mentioned on the normal Pokey's. Spiked Fun Guy's appearance is definitively more closer to Pokey's. There was a proposal to split both Spiked Fun Guys, with one option that had splitting Yoshi's Story Spiked Fun Guy while merging the Yoshi's Island one. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 06:55, 20 December 2018 (EST)
::::::::::The thing about the ''Yoshi's Island'' depiction is that Shogakukan's ''[[media:Advance 3 Shogakukan P16.png|Super Mario Advance 3]]'' guide suggests that Needlenose and Spiked Fun Guy are actually the same thing (note the description, whose last sentence translates as: "''It sometimes hangs from a balloon or rides in a pot.''" - describing actions exclusive to Needlenose and Spike Fun Guy, respectively). What I believe was intended to be the case was that what we call Needlenose is supposed to be its graphic as a basic projectile and what we call Spiked Fun Guy is supposed to be its graphic as a more standard enemy. Mind, the original ''[[media:Super Mario Yossy Island Shogakukan P4 P5.jpg|Yossy Island]]'' guide doesn't have this sentence and both versions also include Bouncing Bullet Bill together with Bullet Bill, which was later split in the ''Yoshi's New Island'' guide. Still, the fact that traditional Pokeys do show up in ''Yoshi's New Island'' indicates that it's separate from one or both of these. I think of them more like the predecessor to Pokey Heads than a real redesign of Pokey. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:45, 20 December 2018 (EST)
::::::::::The thing about the ''Yoshi's Island'' depiction is that Shogakukan's ''[[media:Advance 3 Shogakukan P16.png|Super Mario Advance 3]]'' guide suggests that Needlenose and Spiked Fun Guy are actually the same thing (note the description, whose last sentence translates as: "''It sometimes hangs from a balloon or rides in a pot.''" - describing actions exclusive to Needlenose and Spike Fun Guy, respectively). What I believe was intended to be the case was that what we call Needlenose is supposed to be its graphic as a basic projectile and what we call Spiked Fun Guy is supposed to be its graphic as a more standard enemy. Mind, the original ''[[media:Super Mario Yossy Island Shogakukan P4 P5.jpg|Yossy Island]]'' guide doesn't have this sentence and both versions also include Bouncing Bullet Bill together with Bullet Bill, which was later split in the ''Yoshi's New Island'' guide. Still, the fact that traditional Pokeys do show up in ''Yoshi's New Island'' indicates that it's separate from one or both of these. I think of them more like the predecessor to Pokey Heads than a real redesign of Pokey. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:45, 20 December 2018 (EST)
:::::::::::1) I think that the "describes Needlenoses" argument is not fairly valid, as it only mentions Needlenoses when it's the entry of the enemies that shoot them. It erroneously implies that Spiked Fun Guy hangs on [[Baron von Zeppelin]]s. 2) Its design is much more closer to Pokey that what is Needlenose. (SMB2 even had it green) 3) Please note that Doc von Schmeltwick told me how off-model enemies are in this game. (take Bullet Bill and Boo to name a few) Bullet Bill was larger and was green. 4) SMB2 enemies reappear in this game, including [[Shy Guy]]s, [[Snifit]]s, and also, note that [[Tweeter]]s we're planned to appear as seen in the unused sprite. I still think that "Spiked Fun Guy" is another insanely redesigned enemy "Pokey", as it has the same Japanese name. Yoshi's New Island doesn't mention Needlenoses on Pokey's entry, so Needlenoses are separate from this one, thus, Spiked Fun Guy is the Pokey itself and thus, should be merged. It also acts much more like a Pokey than what Needlenoses did, as it is just an enemy rather than an enemy and a projectile. Should i bring it up on its talk page rather than bringing it up here? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 05:39, 9 February 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::1) I think that the "describes Needlenoses" argument is not fairly valid, as it only mentions Needlenoses when they're shot from enemies. It erroneously implies that Spiked Fun Guy hangs on [[Baron von Zeppelin]]s. 2) Its design is much more closer to Pokey that what is Needlenose. (SMB2 even had it green) 3) Please note that Doc von Schmeltwick told me how off-model enemies are in this game. (take Bullet Bill and Boo to name a few) Bullet Bill was larger and was green. 4) SMB2 enemies reappear in this game, including [[Shy Guy]]s, [[Snifit]]s, and note that [[Tweeter]]s we're planned to appear as seen in the unused sprite. I still think that "Spiked Fun Guy" is another insanely redesigned enemy "Pokey", as it has the same Japanese name. Yoshi's New Island doesn't mention Needlenoses on Pokey's entry, so Needlenoses are separate from this one, thus, Spiked Fun Guy is the Pokey itself. It also acts much more like a Pokey than what Needlenoses did. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 05:39, 9 February 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::Anyways, after my final decision with Spiked Fun Guy (which i removed the merge template), i think it should be kept as-is. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:21, July 17, 2019 (EDT)
 
==Zelda series==
"Spark" is also the name of an identically-acting obstacle in the ''Zelda'' series, appearing in ''A Link to the Past'', ''Link's Awakening'', ''Oracle of Seasons/Ages'', and ''The Minish Cap''. Considering they act the same, we list other ''Mario'' enemies' appearances in those games, and us grouping the DKJr and SMB2 entities together is already working a bit under assumption, would it be agreeable to note this on the page? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:09, February 4, 2021 (EST)
:Seems quite reasonable to me, although I should point out that unlike other Mario enemies, these don't have a figurine in the Switch version of Link's Awakening. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 16:06, February 4, 2021 (EST)
::Neither do Podoboo or Thwimp. They seem to exempt the "obstacles" from it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:35, February 4, 2021 (EST)
:::I've added it under "trivia" like how the Nitpicker from ''Ice Climber'' is handled, but I'm not sure if they're supposed to deliberately be the same thing. ''Hyrule''/''Zelda Encyclopedia'' (which is a ''whole other'' can of worms) doesn't mention it as being from the ''Mario'' series unlike the other ones, for whatever that's worth, but it also does bizarre things like the former splitting the Chain Chomp from ''A Link to the Past'', despite numerous sources stating otherwise. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:00, March 10, 2022 (EST)
:::OK, spotted evidence that they had the same Sparks in mind. Check out [[tcrf:Development:The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (Game Boy)/Early and Unused Graphics|here]], under "gomi7.CGX" - sure, there are a few ''Zelda'' enemies like Bubble/Anti-Faerie, but generally speaking, Spark is listed among the other series cameos (and there's even a scrapped Fighterfly). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:37, April 11, 2022 (EDT)
 
== separate pyro dangle from spark ==
 
In addition to the Japanese name and the fact that they are spherical creatures stuck to a wall that they really have the most in common to consider themselves one, we already had the case of the SMW2 pokeys so I don't understand why this article is still together, one is electric and the other is fire and has vulnerable moments, it is also worth highlighting its reappearance in Yoshi New Island where if it were really a spark its name and appearance should already be updated, I propose that we separate them [[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]])
:Both of them are {{wp|electrical fire}}s and they have similar "mask" eyes. They seem to be the same to me. Also, they were merged by a proposal. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:11, February 20, 2025 (EST)
in which other game the spark have appeared with a confirmed fire appearance and not because of the limited coloration of that time [[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]])
In a hypothetical case, if Spark and Hothead and Li'l Sparky had the same name in Japanese, should we merge them since they have similar mechanics?
That proposal arose and was finalized before Yoshi New Island where Piro Dangle reappears, implying that it is not a redesign but a different species.
 
Also their eyes are almost nothing alike, the Spark have more "normal" eyes while the Piro Dangle have ones similar to Friguy [[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]])
:[[Talk:Piro Dangle|The proposal happened only a little less than three years ago]]. Also, the eyes {{file link|SMA Spark Artwork.jpg|here}} and {{file link|SMA3-PiroDangleFireless.png|here}} look pretty similar-shaped to me. [[Sumo Bro]]s' attacks have also gone between fiery and electrical, so it's hardly unique here. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 09:10, February 20, 2025 (EST)
 
:There are a few things you seem to be forgetting. You say that the enemy's name should have been updated in Yoshi's New Island, as if it was named "Piro Dangle" in that appearance, but it actually goes unnamed in that game. Also, Sparks (named as such!) also make cameo appearances in the Zelda series and, in The Minish Cap, they use a very similar design to the one from the Yoshi's Island series. Compare:
<gallery>
TMC_Spark.png|"Spark" from The Minish Cap
SMW2_Piro_Dangle_small_fire.png|"Piro Dangle" from Yoshi's Island
YNI_Piro_Dangle_fiery.png|Yoshi's New Island
</gallery>
:[[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 09:26, February 20, 2025 (EST)
So you don't think that piro dangle is the new spark, I say that since its appearance it has been the most used design so far, leaving the old design behind, shouldn't the page be updated to its new design or is the other one still used? [[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]])
:The new design doesn't have artwork as far as we know, unfortunately. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:13, February 20, 2025 (EST)
I understand, I think it should at least be mentioned on the page until a new illustration that this is the new design [[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]])

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