Editing Talk:Solo Toady

== Split Green Toadies from Solo Toadies ==

'''Proposer:''' {{User|FanOfYoshi}}<br>'''Deadline:''' November, 23, 2018 23:59 GMT

#{{User|WeirdDave13}} Per Waluigi Time.

#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.

#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.

#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} Merge to Toady.

== Split Green Toady from Solo Toady: Attempt 2 ==

Ok, this is getting a bit more intensive than the first one. While the Koopa Troopa gets [[media:Advance_3_Shogakukan_P18.png|only one entry]] in the Advance Guide, Toadies have two. [[media:Advance_3_Shogakukan_P15.png|one for normal Toady]], and [[media:Advance_3_Shogakukan_P16.png|one for Green Toady]], but not Solo Toady. Solo Toady is neither referred in the Green Toady's, nor getting an entry. Since i'm not a fan of how they we're handled in Super Famicon guides, i think it's better to trust the Advance 3 Guide. Doc von Schmeltwick sees a reason to split. In this guide, Kokameck refers to Green Toady. According to Doc von Schmeltwick, Green Toady not ever officially applied to Solo Toady.

== Merge to Toady ==

So, during my Bubble Dayzee proposal, i saw LinkTheLefty mention it, so decided to make a proposal about this while i'm at it. The fact that both were merged together bothered me for a while, now. They should have either have been split, or merged to Toady altogether in the first place. I know about the feet thing, but that's neither an indication of them being the same or different subspecies at all. Or neither that they're separate from the normal Toadies. As i realised Doc von Schmeltwick was right about the fact that the large Raven in Yoshi's New Island was presumably a reference to/being Raphael the Raven himself, i think merging it could work. However, i'm kinda on the fence with Kamekku no Teshita, but that's a story for another day. Or is it?<br>

'''Proposer:''' {{User|FanOfYoshi}}<br>

===Split Solo and Green Toady===

#{{User|Chester Alan Arthur}} Per koopa

#{{user|Blinker}} Per all.

#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per the sources presented and Doc's clarification in the comments. I will kindly request, though, that any rebuttals made in future discussions be more civil.

===Keep as is===

:::::First of all, don't use indentations: there is only so much real estate that the comments can reasonably take up, and it's making it unreasonably harder than it has to be to follow along. Now, in regards to: "''Thought we decided not to put much stock into what that book says—why did the narrative suddenly take a turn?'' - excuse me, but what propels you to convince yourself there is some grand "narrative" against the book? No one has ever denied at any point that it is an officially licensed source - what people have been pointing out is that the SNES-era Nintendo Power guide makes far too many little distinctions that are outright contradicted by other officially licensed sources, sometimes even the GBA-era Nintendo Power guide and later the ''Yoshi's Island DS'' ones (English!), and the wiki as a whole no longer treats every single instance from that solitary source as splitting grounds. "''Regardless, “vigilante” is just a frivolous, amusing word I chose to frame their singularity as an enemy. I did not think the connotations of such word would seriously factor into my argument.''" Look, I would love to believe that if this really was "just a frivolous, amusing word," but the fact that this ''phrased out'' as "''vigilantes that strike you independent of any of Kamek's goons''" (direct quote)? Please refrain from backpedaling. "''I did give you an answer,''" no, you've modified it and given two. Let me explain. You said before that "Kamek's Toads are an assembly of generic, red-clad Toadies" - meaning that you ''do'' see Kamek's Toadies as an "assembly" (ie. notable, recurring group) and that other generic, ''red''-clad member debuted in the same game off-screen. Then later, you've said that Kamek's Toadies ''are'' flat-out the "base" species, when the ''red''-clad solo Toadies that appear in, say, the ''Mario Party'' series aren't always members of the same group. See what the problem is? That literally operates backwards from how the wiki organizes every other species/member subject relationship when it doesn't have to be, and it desperately confuses the identity of the subject of the article. "''The other, differently-coloured Toadies that appear in the Yoshi’s Island game are visibly disparate things derivative of the base entity.''" Again, the wiki ''never'' treated ''characters'' as the parent entity. By ''Yoshi's New Island'', the visual features have been erased so that the only difference is color. I'll reiterate: time and time again, the wiki historically does not split color variants without very strong reasoning. To touch on Solo/Green Toady - they act identically, with the only tangible difference being how they are encountered. Something like that is par for the course for traditionally merged color variants. "''Google Translate''" - I insist that you do ''not''. Apologies, but I seriously lack the time to be cleaning up junior mistranslations left lying around. The former is describing 「カメックの<span class="explain" title="てした">手下</span>」 (''Kamekku no Teshita'', Kamek's minions, ie. Kamek's Toadies) as the four that come to nab the baby when your stars run out, and the latter is describing 「コカメック」 (''Kokammekku'', Little Kamek/Magikoopa, ie. Solo/Green Toady or just plain Toady in other appearances) as the main enemy. Either way, the broom-riding, propeller-less Kamek/Magikoopa is a separate subject, considered a parent of sorts to the latter rather than the former. I'm very sorry about this, but at the moment, I have my books in storage, so these proposals come at a bad time for me. However, my distinct recollection is that every enemy is listed in each level, and the ones that this book treats as color variants are all under the same umbrella. As an example, [[:File:Advance 3 Shogakukan P18.png|Koopa Troopa]] comes in green and red shells, yet they are only represented by one graphic and name. Therefore, the book treats Solo and Green Toadies as one and the same. Take my word for it or not, but I'm not the one looking at [[:File:CTY Shogakukan P13.jpg|this]] and trying to spin it around as anything other than what is ultimately labeled as a (parenthetical) color variant. <small>I'm sorry if by chance this got outdated in the time I typed this all out but I just got edit-conflicted and I'm in too much of a rush to read what happened, no hard feelings I just have other stuff going on.</small> [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:16, November 4, 2021 (EDT)

::::::I know very well what I said regarding that Toady assembly, and I sense you are too wound up in semantics to properly decipher my intention with those statements. My claim before Doc's above clarification was that the Toady quartet, in and of themselves, are a template, or a root "species", for the other Toady enemies found in the game. Calling them a "base species", while somewhat of a misnomer in the context of our wiki, was merely an attempt at evoking a group of enemies that overlapped 1:1 with the concept of Kamek's Toadies, but excluded Solo/Green Toadies. This claim of mine has since been proven unfounded once Doc essentially pointed out that Google Translate's interpretation of what I construed as base Toadies from that Japanese guide ("Kamek") was incorrect (being, in fact, explicitly "Kamek's Toadies"). Seeing as how I've been educated on this misinterpretation and that I duly changed my vote in consequence, I don't think there is a point in this discussion continuing further. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:46, November 4, 2021 (EDT)