Editing Talk:Snifit Patrol

==Official Name==

I think the official name is actually Snifit Police because that's the name used in the Virtual console version of ''Mario Party 2'' so should we move the page to that? {{User|Marshal Dan Troop}}

==Change name from Snufit Police to Snifit Police==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-5|keep current name}}
I believe that we should rename this page Snifit Police because while most of the copies of Mario Party 2 for the N64 called them Snufit Police some called them Snifit Police and more importantly the virtual console version of Mario Party 2 calls them Snifit Police therefore I believe that, that is the official name and that, that should be the name of the page.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Marshal Dan Troop}} <br>
'''Deadline:''' November 17 2012, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Marshal Dan Troop}} If I was going to oppose this right off the bat why would I make it?
#{{user|creeper}} per shoey

===Oppose===
# {{user|1337star}}: But they're Snufits, not Snifits. Snifit Police is just a translation error because the two enemies have the same Japanese name (apparently).
# {{user|Coooool123}} Right on the page, this is what it says: "In some copies of Mario Party 2, the Snufit Police are mistakenly called the Snifit Police or the Snifit Patrol." Boom. In black and white. We can't change it because it's not the right name. Snufit Police IS the right name.
# {{User|Vommack}} Per Cool(However many O's there are, I'm not counting).
# {{User|Banon}} Snufits are flying heads, Snifits are walking Shy Guys. The Snufit Police is composed of flying heads (=snufits).

===Comments===
@1337star How do you know they are Snufit's? because the original version of Mario party 2 said they were (which I've personally never seen because the only Mario Party cartridge called them Snifit Police which is what the latest version of Mario Party 2 (which is to the best of my knowledge a straight emulation of Mario Party 2) called them snifit police. {{User|Marshal Dan Troop}}

@Vommack There's five. ^w^ {{User|Coooool123}}

==Change name from Snufit Police to Snifit Police==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|canceled}}
Alright let's try this again. In Mario Party 2 these characters apparently have two English names with some copies of Mario Party 2 calling them Snufit Police and some calling them Snifit Police (although I've never actually seen a copy that calls them Snufit Police). But the virtual console version of Mario Party 2 calls them Snifit Police therefore in accordance with this proposal [[http://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:Bowser%27s_Castle_(world)#Revert_the_SMB3_worlds_to_their_.22Land.22_names|1]] they should be called Snifit Police because that is not only the most recent name used but the name for the Virtual Console version.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Marshal Dan Troop}} <br>
'''Proposed Deadline:''' November 28 2014, 23:59 GMT<br>
'''Date Withdrawn:''' November 16, 2014

===Support===
#{{User|Marshal Dan Troop}} Per all
#{{User|Tsunami}} Per policy, proposal, Virtual Console version and all other stuff.
#{{User|Time Turner}} It's not like we have some long standard of Sn(i/u)fit Police throughout the series in order to compare the name between games. Thus, the most recent name is the most relevant, as going by policy and the standard set by the other proposal.
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per proposal
#{{User|Glitchy Bowser Jr.}} Per proposal.
#{{User|3D Player 2004}} Per all.
#{{User|Vommack}} Per proposal.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Madz the Penguin}} I'm saying no, because even if the policy says so, it's a translation error. Nintendo might have chosen the wrong copy, I don't know. However, this is not like the proposal you mentioned. This is a debate that's more like, "Do all female Toads look similar to Toadette, or do some look like regular Toads?". There's so little evidence, we need another source to confirm this.
#{{User|Mario}} ('''weak oppose''') That the [[Snufit]] article exists, and that the enemies in this article resemble those so-called Snufits, and that there is some suggestion that Snufits and Snifits are intended to be the same enemy, I'm opposing this proposal until there is a way to address the Snufit/Snifit naming problem. Otherwise, this breaks the consistency and may make readers confused.
#{{User|Boo4761}} Per Mario.
#{{User|SuperYoshiBros}} Per Mario.
#{{User|Ghost Jam}} Per Mario.

===Comments===
Just wanted to note, while Snifits have black masks Snufits have white ones, proving those are Snufits. Still I don't want to remove my support as Sinift Police is the most recent name. {{User:Tsunami/sig}}

I've closed this proposal until we decide we can decide the more important Snufit/Snifit question as a whole. {{unsigned|Marshal Dan Troop}}

==Change name from Snufit Police to Snifit Police==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|canceled}}
Looking at the above, it seems this proposal lost the first time, gained enough support the second time around, but then it was dropped due to the Snufit article name and I guess the discussion just sort of petered out. Snifit Police is used in most versions of ''Mario Party 2'' (I should add that, looking through the page history, it was quietly changed as a minor edit in 2006 because "[http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Snufit_Police&diff=56104&oldid=56103 they are snufits]"), so it makes sense that it would be considered the name of the group here. Whether or not Snufits are actually Snifits, I feel, is another topic altogether (just look at Galoomba's para-/winged sub-species using their old yet official "Goomba" names for an example) - and we can figure that out later.

'''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
'''Proposed Deadline''': <s>April 9, 2015, 23:59 GMT</s> '''Extended''': <s>April 16, 2015, 23:59 GMT</s> April 23, 2015, 23:59 GMT.<br>
'''Date Withdrawn:''' April 20, 2015

===Support===
#{{User|SuperYoshiBros}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Binarystep}} I'm pretty sure Snufits are just Super Mario 64's Snifits, like what happened with Fly Guys in the same game.
#{{User|Burningdragon25}} Yes and yes!
#{{User|Count Wiki}} Per proposal
#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Per all.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Okay guys, I've done Japanese Mario searching once again, and here's my findings related to this proposal. First, Snufits. It's assumed that they are subspecies of Snifits. Those who think so, you seem to be correct. The only somewhat reliable source I found is from [http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%A0%E3%83%BC%E3%83%81%E3%83%A7#.E6.B4.BE.E7.94.9F.E5.9E.8B Japanese Wikipedia] where Snufits have a different Japanese name, カメーンムーチョ (a mix of Phanto and Snifit's Japanese names) in ''SM64'' and then ゆうれいムーチョ (Ghost Snifit) in ''SM64DS''. So yes, Snufits seem to be indeed different from Snifits. As for Japanese Space Land board in ''MP2'', I found [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnmJ8jn855Y&index=9&list=PLCF7025D750EDD050 this video] with Snufit Police in action. Here, they call themselves ムーチョじゅんけ (Snifit... Patrol, I think). Which means that in this context, it's "Snufit Police" that's the mistranslation here. Another point I have is that these "Snufits" are driving cars, and they cover their lower bodies, so how do we know for certain that they are in fact Snufits, aside from basing it on their masks? Finally, even if the species name clashes with the organization name, Snufit is still a Snifit species, so technically "Snifit Police" is still correct. '''Long story short: "Snifit Police" is the correct translation, "Snufit Police" a mistranslation. Calling them "Snufits" here because of their similar appearance to ''SM64'' enemies seems to be based on the masks and ignores their lower bodies which we conveniently can't see. And Snufit = Snifit species so "Snifit Police" is in a sense correct.''' So ultimately, per all.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - If the name's official and more recent, while the other is of dubious authenticity, it should be the one that's used. The Para/Winged Galoombas being called "Goomba"s already sets a precedent for naming something differently than its namesake due to holes in the official names, and it seems like these guys being Snufits is questionable in and of itself.
#{{User|Marshal Dan Troop}} Per this proposal an my previous ones. I have never seen a copy of this game or any footage of this game refer to them as Snufit Police and every copy I've either owned or played calls them Snifit Police.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Mario}} I don't feel quite comfortable naming this to Snifit Police since these characters are quite clearly Snufits and the renaming from [[Talk:Snufit#Merge Snufit with Snifit|Snufit to Snifit proposal]] isn't going to pass. So, I'm opposing with similar reasons from the last proposal.
#{{User|Stonehill}} Per Mario.
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per all.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per Mario.
#{{User|Viper26}} Per Mario.
#{{User|NSY}} Clearly Snufits, no doubt about it.
#{{User|Toadbrigade5}} Per Mario. And ties are fun.
#{{User|Time Turner}} Per LTL's recent comment about the name being "Snifit Patrol".

===Comments===
I'm still holding out on the voting because if this were to be renamed to Snifit police, then we're assuming Snufits are the same as Snifits. After all, the Snufit Police is composed of enemies that resemble just like Snufits. {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:10, 28 March 2015 (EDT)
:That's fine, and I won't deny there wouldn't be a disparity if one proposal passes and the other doesn't, [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Snufit_Police&diff=179623&oldid=179621 but there isn't/hasn't been proof that Snufit Police is even official;] even if it is, [[MarioWiki:Naming|policy dictates in general cases that it should be Snifit Police anyway.]] For those reasons and the original proposal on this page passing, this newer proposal exists. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:15, 2 April 2015 (EDT)
::I feel like this one is largely dependent on the other and since it's not really clear-cut of one or the other, I'd rather not try confusing people. Policy is great to cite, but this feels like case-by-case so I'm not comfortable with one passing and the other not. {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:23, 3 April 2015 (EDT)
:Policy is great to cite, but the way I see it, there are one of two scenarios at play here:
:1) The ([http://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=33500.0 never properly cited]) claim that Snifit Police is called Snufit Police in certain versions is indeed true.
:2) As evidenced through page history of the [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Snufit_Police&diff=56104&oldid=56103 somewhat questionable mid-2000's article move] and [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Snufit_Police&diff=179623&oldid=179621 subsequent rationale], plus [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Snufit_Police&diff=1348416&oldid=1348415 calls to affirm the assertion remaining unanswered] and the rather suspect decision to keep using Snifit Police on Virtual Console, Snufit Police is either [http://themushroomkingdom.net/mania/books/guide from a player's guide] or an ''unofficial fan-name'', the former of which [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|doubly breaks policy]] and the latter of which will lead to the same reasoning that reverted the [[Para-Goomba (Super Mario World)|Para-]]/[[Winged Goomba|Winged]] [[Para-Goomba (Mario Clash)|Galoombas]] back to the Goomba name [[Talk:Paragoomba#Split_Para-Galoomba_from_Paragoomba|exceeding]] [[Talk:Winged Goomba#Split Super Mario World and Mario Clash enemies into separate articles|proposal]].
:Regardless, neither postulation changes the fact that they're still called Snifit Police in "later" versions, and adhering to policy on that point alone simplifies deeper investigation that logically ends with the same result. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:55, 5 April 2015 (EDT)
Er, did Stonehill vote twice? [[User:Binarystep|Binarystep]] ([[User talk:Binarystep|talk]]) 09:45, 6 April 2015 (EDT)
Alright, Alright, What's going on here? [[User:MarioLuigikid|MarioLuigikid]] ([[User talk:MarioLuigikid|talk]]) 3:43, 12 April 2015 (EDT)
:Yes, I've removed it now. {{User|Yoshi876}}

So is this proposal extended again or not?{{unsigned|Magikrazy}}
:[http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Proposals&diff=1824667&oldid=1824570 Looks like it.] [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 23:18, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

@Burningdragon25: You need to add reasoning behind your vote.--[[User:Vommack|Vommack]] ([[User talk:Vommack|talk]]) 14:55, 18 April 2015 (EDT)

To all opposers - do you have a copy of the game that actually calls them the Snufit Police (considering that ''is'' half the reason I made this proposal)? As SmokedChili keenly demonstrated, there isn't even a solid indication that they're the ''Super Mario 64'' species, so that makes the nine year old minor article move because "[http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Snufit_Police&diff=56104&oldid=56103 they are snufits]" hold even less water. Also, I'd like to add something - the article currently states that they're called the Snifit Police, Snufit Police or "Snifit Patrol" depending on one's copy of the game. Looking at Virtual Console footage again, it's actually [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvdWvQCkknI&t=8m22s Snifit Patrol] that's used... [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:06, 19 April 2015 (EDT)
:[https://youtu.be/OwwjChXqP4I?t=435 And here's another video]. That would make the current name "Snifit Patrol," and not "Snufit Police" or "Snifit Police," which would make this proposal incorrect, right? {{User:Time Turner/sig}}


For the record, LinkTheLefty asked about this proposal on my talk page and I [[User_talk:LinkTheLefty#Re:_About_Snifit_Police...|said it should be yanked]]. Not a conventional cancellation request, as those are supposed to happen in the proposal's comment section, and an admin is ultimately supposed to pull the plug so there's no doubt, but to be clear, the cancellation in and of itself is legitimate. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 14:14, 20 April 2015 (EDT)

==Change name from Snufit Police to Snifit Patrol==
To recap, the first proposal from Snufit Police failed because "[http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Snufit_Police&diff=56104&oldid=56103 they are snufits]", the second proposal was cancelled because of perceived disparity between the Snifit Police and the Snufit species, and the third proposal was cancelled because even though there's more evidence that they are Snifits courtesy of SmokedChili, it eventually came to light that this ''should'' have been [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvdWvQCkknI&t=8m22s Snifit] [https://youtu.be/OwwjChXqP4I?t=435 ''Patrol''] (there ''may'' have been additional confusion because they are seen in buildings clearly marked as ''Police'' stations, and it seems people generally mash the button through the text when they play ''Mario Party'' games with their buddies). Looking around for pre-Virtual Console videos also shows that [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOPtdCOWkQk&t=3m24s the] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25ZtkioJqsE&t=5m27s Snifit] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5uvHyUQP80&t=5m59s Patrol] was fairly common. The article currently states that some copies of the game arbitrarily replace the "Snufit Police" text with either Snifit Police or Snifit Patrol - as noted, Snufit Police was a [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Snufit_Police&diff=179623&oldid=179621 questionable] [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Snufit_Police&diff=1348416&oldid=1348415 change] to begin with, and there's unfortunately less in favor of its oft-cited alternate name now.

Even if the names ''were'' changed in some copies (which we lack proof of), the [[MarioWiki:Naming|naming policy]] dictates that the wiki should use the version of the name most recently or commonly used - in this case, since the subject only appeared in one game, this would be the Virtual Console edition, which clearly uses Snifit Patrol and not the alleged Snifit Police or Snufit Police. We don't need another proposal to ensure everything is factual and complies with policy (for a somewhat similar situation where policy overrules a proposal, see [[Talk:Winged_Goomba|here]]). Let's look at our findings, hopefully conclude based on the evidence that the article needs to be moved to reflect policy over proposal, and decide whether or not the unverified name changes officially exist. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:11, 20 April 2015 (EDT)

:Per LinkTheLefty: it's following policy to use the latest and/or most common names. I feel a lot of the resistance is in response to the fear of this leading to a Snufit-Snifit merge (a merge which I am also opposed to), but as seen with the "[[Winged Goomba]]", and two "[[Para-Goomba (Mario Clash)|Para]]-[[Para-Goomba (Super Mario World)|Goomba]]" pages bearing those names despite the fact that they're actually winged or parachute-bearing [[Galoomba]]s, it's okay to have a mis-match in titles when that's all the canon we have to go with. Official names beat speculation in the Galoomba case, and in this case, the verified "Snifit Patrol" name should also beat the dubious "Snufit Police", regardless of whether it's made up of Snufits or Snifits (which is hard to tell for certain either way). And as was also mentioned in the last proposal, Snufits are a type of Snifit anyway, so like how we have Hammer Bros. and Lakitu in the Koopa Troop, so too does it still make sense if supposed Snufits are in a Snifit Patrol. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 14:28, 20 April 2015 (EDT)
::If it's policy to use the newest English name, and their most recent English name is "Snifit Patrol", couldn't you just do the move? [[User:Binarystep|Binarystep]] ([[User talk:Binarystep|talk]]) 15:34, 20 April 2015 (EDT)
:::This is more of an fyi than a request. If it wasn't already mostly a done deal, there'd be a new "move to Snifit Patrol" TPP, but given how it's been such a divisive issue with multiple TPPs and info slowly dripping in and being buried in walls of text and cross-talk, it's still better to make a last statement summarizing the facts. That makes it clear, when people look back on the talk page, why there was a move without a successful consensus, and it gives any dissenters a chance to (hopefully) come back and see the facts we now have and agree that the move is necessary - rather than just springing it on them in spite of the TPP outcomes. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 16:16, 20 April 2015 (EDT)
::::In retrospect, despite the [[Talk:Snufit#Merge Snufit with Snifit|other]] proposal I had originally intended to prepare after the above one was satisfactorily done, I wouldn't particularly be in favor of merging Snufit with Snifit at ''this'' juncture, either... Given it was pointed out that we cannot ascertain if the police members are composed of Snufits or Snifits, the idea that Nintendo meant to or called them Snifits but a mere old guide typo got in the way is much weaker now than it was before, plus I'd forgotten that Snufits' floating ability actually does come into rather significant use at one or two points in the gas maze, which should at least make them different enough for their own article. So yes, let that be known as coming from a person who strongly supported moving the name of their police force. (Apologies for cancelling it beyond authority - I thought I remember reading that extended proposals renew the days a proposer can cancel of their own power, so it slipped my mind at the time to double-check.) [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:40, 25 April 2015 (EDT)
:::::The TPP rules ''do'' let proposers cancel their proposals beyond the initial 3 days, but only if the support and opposition sides both have less than 5 votes. But anyway, I've seen far more egregious proposal-yanking attempts, so no worries. As for the move, since it's been nearly a week, there's no opposition and I actually have a chunk of free time today (which will not be the case after the 1-week mark), I am going to move the page now. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 13:52, 26 April 2015 (EDT)