Editing Talk:Sleepy Boo

If ''anything'', we ''move'' the page with the function that is designed for that use. This way, we don't destroy the page's history. But I don't think a move is needed in this case, both names are conjectural. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 10:58, 27 January 2008 (EST)

== Regarding this page and [[Big Boo]] ==

So English Mario Portal refers to these as Big Boos in spite of having a different Japanese name (Debu Teresa, ie "Fat Boo" in this case). While it could just be seen as an alternate name, it bears mentioning that Big Boos have had [[Big Boo#Names in other languages|quite the extensive]] history of name-changes in Japanese. (I'm also curious if the "Debu Teresa" appeared on the ''Toadstool Tour'' scoreboard, and if so if it was listed as "Big Boo" there too). A decision needs made as to whether this should be considered the same as the Big Boo species, and whether the current name should have priority. On that note, there's still the issue of the ''Sunshine'' King Boo sharing a name with the ''Super Mario 64'' boss Big Boo (along with other games released shortly afterwards, like I'm pretty sure the early ''Mario Party'' games and ''Mario Pinball Land'') and the ''Super Mario Pia'' guidebook treating them as interchangeable. Since obviously these couldn't both be merged, this could easily mean that the SM64/MPtrilogy/Sunshine/MPL "Master/Boss" Teresa is a singular member of the recurring "Big Boo" species - namely, as a prototype King Boo that stuck around for a little while before being abandoned, similar to Koopa Kid's role of an abandoned Bowser Jr. prototype. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:36, December 31, 2023 (EST)
:On the note of the King Boos, though, [[tcrf:Mario Kart: Double Dash!!/July 5th, 2004 Debug Build#Player Select(kari)|this]] could be a potential missing link. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:04, December 31, 2023 (EST)
::I did notice that. To me, that seems like how they replaced DK Jr with Diddy for recognizability, albeit earlier on. The fact that "Boss Boo" and "King Boo" coexist while sharing a model in ''64 DS'' (much to the localizers' confusion) only adds to the snarl here - it would not surprise me at all if LM's "King Boo" were intended as an evolution of the "Boss Boo" owner of Big Boo's Haunt (also explaining the Sunshine and Pinball deals), but having them together like that muddies the issue. Note also, that in ''[[Mario Party Superstars]]'', King Boo takes the "Boss Boo"'s role in [[Horror Land]], which the "Boss" Boo previously kept for MP4. And note the alleged "pre-release" LM King Boo art lacking the crown, making it seem even more likely he was intended as a continuation of the "Boss Boo." <small>Of course, given the "Boss" Boo already had two Japanese names and three fights in SM64 and the two sharing a model with what amounts to an on-off switch to decide if the crown is there, it's equally possible that even in the context of SM64DS, they are the same character, just wearing a crown at one point for added power (as established by later games), in which case, the English localization was right on the money, but without further proof, that's as good as fan-fiction. I wonder if there are any other sources?</small> [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:16, December 31, 2023 (EST)
:::Considering King Boo's "normal Boo with a crown" look first appeared in Double Dash, I think it's more likely that the model was originally meant to depict the Sunshine boss, and they simply changed the name because Luigi's Mansion. Anyways, I support merging the Pinball Boo to the Sunshine Boo, but I'm not sure about Oyakata Teresa. That's used in the Ghost Hunt mission, right? And the last Boo calls him just "oyakata". And then Boss Teresa is used in the balcony mission? Are they the same individual? It doesn't sound like it, what with the mission being "Boss Boo of the Balcony" in Japanese. Is Oyakata Teresa '''a''' Boss Teresa? [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:32, January 1, 2024 (EST)
::::Both "Bosu" and "Oyakata" mean "boss," so it seems more likely they just went with which-ever was easier to say at the time in SM64, with later games usually picking one or the other (like what they did with Monty Mole's inconsistent SMW artwork design until SM64DS effectively merged them, or, for a different franchise's example, ''Zelda: Twilight Princess''{{'}}s Aeralfos having a different JP name between its appearance as a miniboss and an enemy, with later games going for one or the other regarding the whole species). On the note of SM64, there's also the fact that the Boo guarding the warp to BBHaunt is a different kind Big Boo, just being a normal Boo scaled up to an intermediate size. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:46, January 1, 2024 (EST)
:::::I see. That clears it up somewhat, though that "of the balcony" still makes it sound like a different individual, I guess that doesn't change much either way. Still, merging the 64 and Sunshine Boos... I won't oppose it, but a Boo boss in Double Dash was always going to be named "Boss Teresa", so I'm still not entirely convinced it's not just a coincidence. Now that I think about it though, the "Oykata Teresa" name might be one of those descriptions that end up turning into names, like "[[Big Mr. I.|Ōmedama]]". [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 17:36, January 1, 2024 (EST)
::::::To be fair, in regards to the MKDD thing, the only real evidence we have is a single unused text string, which may have been done just for brevity or ease of remembering in development - particularly since it was already the final King Boo design at the point the unused DKJr. select screen was taken. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:42, January 1, 2024 (EST)
:::::::He's paired with Petey though, another Sunshine boss. And as for having the final design, look at him. He's a regular, large Boo with a spiky golden crown. He looks more like the Sunshine boss than like the Luigi's Mansion character, just with a design more reminiscent of non-Sunshine Boos....... Also I just realized I wrote Double Dash there. Whoops. I meant Sunshine. A Boo boss in Sunshine was always going to be named "Boss Teresa", is what I meant to write. Sorry about that. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 17:53, January 1, 2024 (EST)
::::::::It wouldn't necessarily have to be - the only other ''Sunshine'' bosses to follow the "boss [enemy name]" pattern are [[Petey Piranha|Packun]], [[Gooper Blooper|Gesso]], and [[Wiggler (Super Mario Sunshine)|Hana-chan]], the last of which doesn't have any actual standard representatives. And from what I recall Mister Wu saying, the ''Super Mario Pia'' guidebook explicitly treated the SM64 and Sunshine Boo bosses as synonymous. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:21, January 1, 2024 (EST)
: I personally think that Big Boo is more of a generic term for it and the fact that the Mario Portal name just happens to share the name as the Perfect Guide designation to be weirdly coincidental. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 10:47, January 4, 2024 (EST)

== Merge with Big Boo ==

{{TPP}}
Sleepy Boos are also known as Giant Boos and Big Boos according to the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' Perfect Guide. Also, page 20 of the ''Super Mario Sunshine Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook'' and page 99 of ''[[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia|Super Mario Encyclopedia]]'' both refer to Big Boos as Fat Boos. I was just wondering if there's a possibility to merge Sleepy Boo with [[Big Boo]].

'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBB}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 7, 2024, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|GuntherBB}} Per proposal

===Oppose===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Different appearance (accounting for Sunshine's odd designs) and function. The name overlap is all this proposal has in its favor, but that's very inconsistent, even in Japan.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick/Projects/Big Teresa|I did make a draft page on this]], but at the moment I don't think they should be merged unless further evidence comes up. (Also, you have suggested that both this ''and'' SMS's King Boo be merged to Big Boo in concurrent proposals, you should stick with one or the other.) I'd be fine with moving this page to "Big Boo (''Super Mario Sunshine'')," though, as that's the more common and more recent name.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Doc, a rename is the extent of what should be changed here.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per above. We do not know enough at this point.

===Comments===
@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 == Merge with Big Boo ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|failed|1-7|Do not merge}}
 Sleepy Boos are also known as Giant Boos and Big Boos according to the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' Perfect Guide. Also, page 20 of the ''Super Mario Sunshine Nintendo Kōshiki Guidebook'' and page 99 of ''[[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia|Super Mario Encyclopedia]]'' both refer to Big Boos as Fat Boos. I was just wondering if there's a possibility to merge Sleepy Boo with [[Big Boo]].
@@ Line 31: / Line 30: @@
 #{{User|Hewer}} Per Doc, a rename is the extent of what should be changed here.
 #{{User|Nintendo101}} Per above. We do not know enough at this point.
-#{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} NO.
-#{{User|Arend}} They're called Debu Teresa (Fat Boo) in Japan and function differently. Merging it with Big Boo is like merging [[Fat Guy]] with [[Mega Guy|Big Shy Guy]] because the former is also called "Big Guy" (on a tangential note, shouldn't Big Shy Guy be split from Mega Guy?)
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
 ===Comments===
-About the only thing it has in common is the name. Everything else is literally different. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:57, February 23, 2024 (EST)
-:@Arend, IIRC, i at least THINK we once split Mega Guy and Big Shy Guy (which would be my idea), but they ultimately were merged back. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:23, February 29, 2024 (EST)