Editing Talk:Sledge Bro

Misnaming again = Epic Fail. Anyway, I think that these guys need some more info about their cartoon appearances. {{User:Pink Boozooka/sig}} 
 




Also, if they wanted to call them "sumo bros", couldn't they have given them some karate gear or something to tell the difference from Sledge bros.? [[user:General guy Genius]]

==Move Sledge Bro. to Sumo Bro. (Super Mario Bros. 3)==
{{TPP}}

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Raven Effect}} <br>
'''Deadline:''' September 6, 2012 23:59 GMT

For the last 3 guides these have been called Sumo Bros. by Prima and regardless of your preference towards Prima they are still the official source for game guides of Nintendo games. Now the question is should we consider this a new name and to that I say yes (otherwise I wouldn't make this proposal) Think about it when Prima makes a naming mistake they usually don't make the same one multiple times in a row. But with these they have called them Sumo Bros. consistently in the last 3 game guides. I believe that this is enough evidence to say that they have been renamed Sumo Bro. because unlike other instances where a creature is renamed such as Fishbone being called Wet Bones this one is consistent. 

EDIT: I now have reason to believe it was Nintendo Power guide for New Super Mario Bros. that first called them Sumo Bros. because at the time of that being added Prima guides were not considered official (at least not the ones before 2007) and New Super Mario Bros. was released in 2006 meaning that only the Nintendo Power guide would have been considered official at the time.

EDIT: 2 thank you Glowsquid for confirming the fact that Nintendo Power called them Sumo Bros. and keep in mind that was in 2006 when they were still being published by Nintendo of America. 
===Move===  
#{{User|Raven Effect}} Per my proposal.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per proposal. We can always mention that they are sometimes called Sledge Bros.
#{{User|Master R.O.B}} Per proposal.
#{{User|ToastUltimatum}} This article states that NSMB2 itself calls them Sumo Bros. So no question, really.
#{{User|JORDAN DEBONO}} Per ToastUltimatum. In instances like these, we should keep to the latest version of names for characters.
#{{User|Electrical Bowser jr.}} If it's the recent name.

===Don't Move===
#{{User|xXSuperXXNintendoXx}}As such, Prima is known for their mistakes and they do make mistakes multiple times in a row, also Sumo Bros don't wield hammers. and their attacks, other than the stomp that stuns Mario are completely different. The Sledge Bro in the New Super Mario Bros. games was obviously based off of its appearance within SMB3. They are just to different to move, despite Prima having an official Nintendo Seal, its not perfect.
<s>#{{User|Koopa K}} It says right at the top of the page "sometimes '''incorrectly''' referred to as Sumo Bros. They are completely different from Sumo Bros.! Per mine and [[User:xXSuperXXNintendoXx|xXSuperXXNintendoXx]]'s comments below.</s>
#{{User|Technickal}} If anything, merge it with Sumo Bro.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - "Sumo Bro. (SMB3)" indicates something that was called a "Sumo Bro." in ''SMB3'', but there is no such creature, so that's not a good name at all. In fact, neither [[Sledge Bro.]] or [[Sumo Bro.]] can be given eloquent parentheses because they both appear more than once; fortunately we have two perfectly good distinct names that we can keep using, rather than being forced to mess around with shared titles. Why complicate things when there's a perfectly straightforward solution: the simpler and easier to use the wiki is, the better. And we don't even have to break policy to choose the logical route: even if a lot of the appearances don't call Sledge Bros. by name, [[MarioWiki:Naming]] doesn't actually say the "most commonly used English name" is determined by the number of appearances - rather, it's the name used most by "our user and visitor demographics". As far as I know, that would still be "Sledge Bro."
#{{User|Bop1996}} Per Walkazo

===Comments===
Also i'm going to point out that Sumo Bro. is their most common name they've been called Sledge Bro. once (possibly twice if that's what the adventure books call them) Elite Hammer Bro. once (in the cartoons) and Sumo Bro. 3 times. {{User|Raven Effect}}

'''@xXSuperXXNintendoXx''' i'm not suggesting a merger between the two articles (because that would be insane) i'm suggestion that we move this article because even if Prima makes mistakes they are still the official source and they've called Sledge Bros. Sumo Bro. 3 times in a row and because Sumoo Bro. is the most common name. {{User|Raven Effect}}
:Also (and this is just my humble opinion) I don't think we should call this a misidentification a more logical assumption is that they didn't know that Sledge Bros. were called Sledge Bros. because the name is used so little (like I said only two sources to my knowledge call them that) so they just called them Sumo Bros. because they are similar to sumo wrestlers. {{User|Raven Effect}}


:That's one of the problems, even if Prima serves the official source for Nintendo's guides, does not signify by any means that all of their information is by any means canonical. However, I understand that it has been called Sumo Bro for the past 3 guides, but also Sledge Bros have first appeared in SMB3 which was released before SMW (which was the Sumo Bro's debut game). Sometimes it depends not on the name, but the actions of the enemy and which one its most similar to, I think we should keep it as is. (Sorry if I sound rude), and yes they are both similar to sumo wrestlers (and quite fat, haha) --[[User:XXSuperXXNintendoXx|XXSuperXXNintendoXx]] ([[User talk:XXSuperXXNintendoXx|talk]]) 13:36, 23 August 2012 (EDT)
::Actually I think on this wiki the info from official Prima guides are canon. And yes i understand that there is a problem with both Sumo Bros. being called Sumo Bro. which is why I'm proposing it be moved the Sumo Bro. (Super Mario Bros. 3) and the reason that i'm proposing we move Sledge Bro. and not Sumo Bro. is because Sumo Bro. was called Sumo Bro. first. Also I think Sumo Bro. (the hammer throwing kind :P) are in fact quite similar to sumo wrestlers because think about they jump up and cause like earthquakes which stun you which sounds like something a sumo wrestler would do if he was in a video game. {{User|Raven Effect}}

'''@Koopa K''' And I say that's wrong because of the fact that 3 straight manuals have called them Sumo Bros. while only one manual (and possibly some books) call them Sledge Bros. So what I'm trying to say is that there are two types of Sumo Bros. much like how there are two types of Boomerang Brso. {{User|Raven Effect}}
:I say it's right. Still every single other website refers to them as Sledge Bros. Only Prima refers to them as Sumo Bros. Also, if we create the article we would have to make the regular [[Sumo Bros.]] article {{fakelink|Sumo Bros. (Super Mario World)}} These are completely different from Sumo Bros. Oh, and what does the game refer to them as? Sledge Bros. I would guess, because the Superstar Saga Boomerang Bros. where officially referred to as Boomerang Bros. '''IN THE GAME!''' So yea, you think Sumo Bros. I think Sledge Bros. neither of us are particularly right until the proposal ends. {{User|Koopa K}}
::Wait which official website calls them Sledge Bros. 0_0 and also Sledge Bros. are never called Sledge Bros. in the game they are called Sledge Brothers in the manual of SMB3 the only time a game has ever called them that. While there have been 3 straight games that have officially called them Sumo Bro. and once again whether you like Prima or not they are the official makers of Nintendo game guides what they say is canon unless it conflicts with other more reliable sources like a Nintendo Power guide or a game. Also I would like to point out that at the edit was made that said a guide had called them Sumo Bros. Prima was considered an unofficial source (or at least every one before 2007 was) and New Super Mario Bros. was made in 2006 which means that the guide that calls them Sumo Bro. would most likely be a Nintendo Power guide. {{User|Raven Effect}}
:::I never said official I just said websites. I know Prima is the official source for game guides, but that doesn't mean they don't make mistakes, as stated above XSXNX's comment. SMB3 refers to them as Sledge Bros. the only game with Sledge Bros. before Sumo Bros. were invented. Just because something is an official game guide, doesn't mean the cannot make mistakes, three times. {{User|Koopa K}}
::::The fact that they were called sledge bros. before sumo bros. were created is both incorrect and irrelevant they were actually called Sledge Brothers. Also as for your counter to my Boomerang Bro. argument let me point out that according to this wiki in the canon policy no source is more canon then the next so long as it's official so the fact that's it's called that in game is no more canon then the fact that 3 guides have called them Sumo Bros. I also noticed you ignored my point about the fact that it was more then likely the official Nintendo Power guide that called them Sumo Bros. originally not Prima. {{User|Raven Effect}}
:::::So then Nintendo Power made a mistake! Official guides can make mistakes. It is not incorrect you said it yourself.{{User|Koopa K}}
::::::Or they just renamed it why would 2 sources make the exact same mistake 3 times. {{User|Raven Effect}}
:::::::You know what, I would argue with that, but this argument is pointless. {{User|Koopa K}}
::::::::You just have to accept the fact that Nintendo themselves renamed them Sumo Bros. (also what I just said is true because Nintendo of America used to run Nintendo Power until I believe 2007 and the NSMB guide came out in 2006.) {{User|Raven Effect}}
:::::::::I will keep my oppose, but I accept that fact. {{User|Koopa K}}
"let me point out that according to this wiki in the canon policy no source is more canon then the next so long as it's official"


well actually, [[Mariowiki:Naming]] states that Nintendo Power names take priority over Prima in case of conflicts. Though I'm merely clarifying this for precision's sake, as I have the Nintendo Power NSMB guide and I can confirm that they're called "Sumo Bro" in there. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 17:46, 23 August 2012 (EDT)

::As such, a Zelda enemy known as the Dinofols was named differently in every game they appeared in and we didn't create like 5 articles for it because they were the same, which appeared first Sledge Bro or the Sumo Bro, they were called Sledge Bros in the games manuel, which seems more official than a guide. Sometimes fan-names are used for articles, not everything has to be canon. Sledge Bros from SMB3 and NSMB Sledge/Sumo Bro are exactly alike, however, the SMW Sumo Bro and the NSMB Sledge/Sumo Bro are nothing alike besides their obesity, not everything on a wiki should be based off of a guide. --[[User:XXSuperXXNintendoXx|XXSuperXXNintendoXx]] ([[User talk:XXSuperXXNintendoXx|talk]]) 20:45, 23 August 2012 (EDT)

I'm guessing Prima just learned the name by reading the NSMB strategy guide, and that one little error made them constantly referred to as Sumo Bros. {{User|Technickal}}

What is the latest game Sledge Bros. appeared in? What are they called there? According to the name I will cast my vote. {{User|JORDAN DEBONO}}
:Read the article you'll find your answer there. {{User|Koopa K}}

'''@XXSuperXXNintendoXx''' what makes a manual made by Nintendo more canon then a guide book made by Nintendo? also the Zelda series stuff has no impact here. '''@Technickal''' that is a terrible idea to merge two things that share nothing in common but a name is ridiculous. At opposers you base your votes for the most part on the fact that Nintendo called them Sledge Bros. originally but ignore the fact that Nintendo then renamed them Sumo Bro. a name which they have been called ever since by Prima who makes the official guide books. You also ignore the fact that in that same manual Blooper Nannies were called Blooper with kids but were later renamed Blooper Nannies and the fact that Bloopers were originally called Bloobers. So I have no idea why you are opposing this unless you A: belive that we should call Bloopers Bloobers, Boos Boo Boo Diddley, and Blooper Nannies Blooper with kids. Or B: You don't want to hammer bros. sub-species to have the same name which is a flawed argument because we already have that [[Boomerang Bro. (Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)]]. {{User|Raven Effect}}

Technically, Sledge Bro. is the more common name, named that in SMB3,YS,TAoSMB3,NAB, and most likely MKW. While the Sumo Bro. name is mistakenly used in NSMB, NSMBW, and NSMB2. {{User|Koopa K}}
:Actually they were called Sledge Brother in SMB3 :P and i believe they were called Elite Hammer Bros. in the cartoons (either that or they were called Elite Hammer Bros. in the Nintendo Adventure Books which might not have called them anything at all), Yoshi's Safari didn't call them anything because it only listed bosses and they were technically mini-bosses (my source for that is the mushroom kingdom website which doesn't list them on the Yoshi's Safari page), and yes they were probably called Sledge Brother in SMA but i think that was just a reprint of the original manual, And I highly doubt they were called anything in MKWii since they were just back ground characters. And they would have been called Sledge Bro. in the Super Mario All-Stars game but that's not really fair to count because it was just a slightly updated version of Super Mario Bros. 3 with the same manual. {{User|Raven Effect}}
::I can now confirm they were called Sledge Brothers in the cartoon which mean that either A: The cartoon called them both Elite Hammer Bros. and Sledge Brothers, B: The books called them elite hammer brothers, or C: The name is made up personally i'm leaning towards either A or B. {{User|Raven Effect}}
:::I think it is C. because the article makes no mention of the name Elite Hammer Bros. {{User|Koopa K}}
@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 ==Move Sledge Bro. to Sumo Bro. (Super Mario Bros. 3)==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|cancelled}}
 '''Proposer:''' {{User|Raven Effect}} <br>
-'''Proposed Deadline:''' September 6, 2012 23:59 GMT<br>
+'''Deadline:''' September 6, 2012 23:59 GMT
-'''Date Withdrawn:''' August 30, 2012
 For the last 3 guides these have been called Sumo Bros. by Prima and regardless of your preference towards Prima they are still the official source for game guides of Nintendo games. Now the question is should we consider this a new name and to that I say yes (otherwise I wouldn't make this proposal) Think about it when Prima makes a naming mistake they usually don't make the same one multiple times in a row. But with these they have called them Sumo Bros. consistently in the last 3 game guides. I believe that this is enough evidence to say that they have been renamed Sumo Bro. because unlike other instances where a creature is renamed such as Fishbone being called Wet Bones this one is consistent.
@@ Line 26: / Line 25: @@
 #{{User|JORDAN DEBONO}} Per ToastUltimatum. In instances like these, we should keep to the latest version of names for characters.
 #{{User|Electrical Bowser jr.}} If it's the recent name.
-#{{User|Koopa K}} Well, the Goal pole proposal [[http://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:Flagpole#Move_to_Goal_Pole]] is probably going to pass, so I changed to keep consistency. EDIT: I just googled both Sledge Bro. and Sumo Bro. Sledge Bro. recieved 1/8 of the hits sumo bro. did. Then, take of half for the other sumo bro. That still leaves only a 1/4 of the hits. Even take off a half of those. Sumo Bro. still has more hits than Sledge Bro.
-#{{User|Technickal}} Per Koopa K.
 ===Don't Move===
-<s>#{{User|Technickal}} If anything, merge it with Sumo Bro.</s>
-<s>#{{User|Koopa K}} It says right at the top of the page sometimes incorrectly referred to as Sumo Bros. Per mine and xXSuperXXNintendoXx's comments below. </s>
 #{{User|xXSuperXXNintendoXx}}As such, Prima is known for their mistakes and they do make mistakes multiple times in a row, also Sumo Bros don't wield hammers. and their attacks, other than the stomp that stuns Mario are completely different. The Sledge Bro in the New Super Mario Bros. games was obviously based off of its appearance within SMB3. They are just to different to move, despite Prima having an official Nintendo Seal, its not perfect.
+<s>#{{User|Koopa K}} It says right at the top of the page "sometimes '''incorrectly''' referred to as Sumo Bros. They are completely different from Sumo Bros.! Per mine and [[User:xXSuperXXNintendoXx|xXSuperXXNintendoXx]]'s comments below.</s>
+#{{User|Technickal}} If anything, merge it with Sumo Bro.
 #{{User|Walkazo}} - "Sumo Bro. (SMB3)" indicates something that was called a "Sumo Bro." in ''SMB3'', but there is no such creature, so that's not a good name at all. In fact, neither [[Sledge Bro.]] or [[Sumo Bro.]] can be given eloquent parentheses because they both appear more than once; fortunately we have two perfectly good distinct names that we can keep using, rather than being forced to mess around with shared titles. Why complicate things when there's a perfectly straightforward solution: the simpler and easier to use the wiki is, the better. And we don't even have to break policy to choose the logical route: even if a lot of the appearances don't call Sledge Bros. by name, [[MarioWiki:Naming]] doesn't actually say the "most commonly used English name" is determined by the number of appearances - rather, it's the name used most by "our user and visitor demographics". As far as I know, that would still be "Sledge Bro."
 #{{User|Bop1996}} Per Walkazo
-#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}} Per Walkazo
-#{{User|Glowsquid}} per walky.
-#{{User|yoshiyoshiyoshi}} Per Walky
 ===Comments===
@@ Line 51: / Line 44: @@
 '''@Koopa K''' And I say that's wrong because of the fact that 3 straight manuals have called them Sumo Bros. while only one manual (and possibly some books) call them Sledge Bros. So what I'm trying to say is that there are two types of Sumo Bros. much like how there are two types of Boomerang Brso. {{User|Raven Effect}}
-:I say it's right. Still every single other website refers to them as Sledge Bros. Only Prima refers to them as Sumo Bros. Also, if we create the article we would have to make the regular [[Sumo Bros.]] article {{fake link|Sumo Bros. (Super Mario World)}} These are completely different from Sumo Bros. Oh, and what does the game refer to them as? Sledge Bros. I would guess, because the Superstar Saga Boomerang Bros. where officially referred to as Boomerang Bros. '''IN THE GAME!''' So yea, you think Sumo Bros. I think Sledge Bros. neither of us are particularly right until the proposal ends. {{User|Koopa K}}
+:I say it's right. Still every single other website refers to them as Sledge Bros. Only Prima refers to them as Sumo Bros. Also, if we create the article we would have to make the regular [[Sumo Bros.]] article {{fakelink|Sumo Bros. (Super Mario World)}} These are completely different from Sumo Bros. Oh, and what does the game refer to them as? Sledge Bros. I would guess, because the Superstar Saga Boomerang Bros. where officially referred to as Boomerang Bros. '''IN THE GAME!''' So yea, you think Sumo Bros. I think Sledge Bros. neither of us are particularly right until the proposal ends. {{User|Koopa K}}
 ::Wait which official website calls them Sledge Bros. 0_0 and also Sledge Bros. are never called Sledge Bros. in the game they are called Sledge Brothers in the manual of SMB3 the only time a game has ever called them that. While there have been 3 straight games that have officially called them Sumo Bro. and once again whether you like Prima or not they are the official makers of Nintendo game guides what they say is canon unless it conflicts with other more reliable sources like a Nintendo Power guide or a game. Also I would like to point out that at the edit was made that said a guide had called them Sumo Bros. Prima was considered an unofficial source (or at least every one before 2007 was) and New Super Mario Bros. was made in 2006 which means that the guide that calls them Sumo Bro. would most likely be a Nintendo Power guide. {{User|Raven Effect}}
 :::I never said official I just said websites. I know Prima is the official source for game guides, but that doesn't mean they don't make mistakes, as stated above XSXNX's comment. SMB3 refers to them as Sledge Bros. the only game with Sledge Bros. before Sumo Bros. were invented. Just because something is an official game guide, doesn't mean the cannot make mistakes, three times. {{User|Koopa K}}
@@ Line 78: / Line 71: @@
 ::I can now confirm they were called Sledge Brothers in the cartoon which mean that either A: The cartoon called them both Elite Hammer Bros. and Sledge Brothers, B: The books called them elite hammer brothers, or C: The name is made up personally i'm leaning towards either A or B. {{User|Raven Effect}}
 :::I think it is C. because the article makes no mention of the name Elite Hammer Bros. {{User|Koopa K}}
-Make this article Sumo Bro. and the other one Sumo Bro. (SMW) as the other one only appeared in one game, while this one is in multiple games. {{User|Koopa K}}
-'''@KoopaK'''The thing that is confusing me, is that you and a few others switched to support just because that was the most likely to pass, seriously show some spirit.... if you believe that this shouldn't pass, you don't have to support it. Stick to your beliefs, I don't mean to be rude, but it kind of got on my nerves. '''@Raven Effect''' I provided the Zelda Example because it was a case similar to this one and I was giving an example. --[[User:XXSuperXXNintendoXx|XXSuperXXNintendoXx]] Also, we need to stick to which name is more commonly used. Why do we need to complicate it, we don't always have to go by the newest name....  I wouldn't search for Sumo Bro (NSMB), I would instead search for Sledge Bro. because its the more common name, not by games, but its more used by the users of this wiki. Don't complicate it for this wiki's viewers. ([[User talk:XXSuperXXNintendoXx|talk]]) 19:41, 26 August 2012 (EDT)
-:'''@ xXSuperXXNintendoXx''' READ THE <bleep>ING REASON BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT! I changed to ''keep consistency'' of all the stuff that has been consistently renamed, NOT BECAUSE IT WAS MORE LIKELY TO PASS, THAT IS A DUMB REASON I WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!! It's about consistency, this has been consistently renamed just like the Goal Pole. IT WAS THE FREAKIN REASON I SUPPORTED THE GOAL POLE TPP! I suggest next time you read my supporting comment before you criticize me. P.S. Sledge Bro. would still be a redirect. {{User|Koopa K}}
-::Calm down Koopa K DOING THIS ONLY MAKES YOUR ARGUMENT WEAKER AND LESS PROFESSIONAL. {{User|Raven Effect}}
-:::It's called anger, but you're right. {{User|Koopa K}}
-::::I wasn't trying to be rude at all, but that was kind of uncalled for.... I guess what I'm trying to say which name is used more widely by the users of the wiki and the viewers, Sumo Bro or Sledge Bro. We don't need to base it on consistency or the more frequent name to appear within the games. As such, I've been with many NIWA wikis, as a regular user and a staff member, but I've never seen a response like that to me..... I get your point, but listen to Raven and calm down. --[[User:XXSuperXXNintendoXx|XXSuperXXNintendoXx]] ([[User talk:XXSuperXXNintendoXx|talk]]) 21:31, 26 August 2012 (EDT)
-I thought about it, I realized that I do think for real that it should be Sumo Bro. Not just for consistency. For reAL, REal. {{User|Koopa K}}
-I have decided to cancel this proposal for the time being because I do not want it inconsistent by having there be a Sumo Bro. (Super Mario Bros. 3} article because that implies that there is a creature that was called Sumo Bro. that came before it when in fact there is not. {{unsigned|Raven Effect}}
-:So what this poll is not going to happen even if the opposition have more votes? {{User|JORDAN DEBONO}}
-== Merging Mega Sledge Bro with Sledge Bro  ==
-Ok, you want to move sledge bro. Can we all know why and discuss? I’m on board. {{User:HEROMARIO/sig}} 08:24, May 16, 2020 (EDT)
-:To explain, there's really no such thing as a Mega Sledge Bro - with the exception of ''Mario Kart Tour''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s Mega Hammer Bro (or Hammer Bro basically under the effect of a Mega Mushroom a la Mega Mario), Sledge Bro is treated as the equivalent of a "Big Hammer Bro", so Mega Sledge Bro would effectively be a "Big Big Hammer Bro". In retrospect, like several other things at the time, the Nintendo of Europe localization to closer to Nintendo of Japan, and so the game's Sledge Bro is correctly called as such. Some likely explanations as to why Nintendo of America mistakenly call it a Mega Sledge Bro include the idea that the localizer wanted to have it match the series' other "Big" enemies (translated as "Mega") or the fact that the Japanese name of Sledge Bros. being changed from ''Himan'' (Fat) Bros. to Mega Bros. led to lasting confusion in translation for a while. If Mega Sledge Bro merges with Sledge Bro, I'd also suggest making a [[MarioWiki:Naming#Name changes|naming exception]] and retitling NoA's "Mega Sledge Bro's Card Chaos" to NoE's "Sledge Bro's Card Chaos" to match. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:20, May 16, 2020 (EDT)
-:Yep, that's right. I agree with [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]], but I think we should mention that he is named Mega Sledge Bro in the american version.{{unsigned|1JUST1}}
-::I agree with LinkTheLefty on all counts except for the last one; naming the article after the British localization instead of the American one like pretty much every article just doesn't make any logical sense in the long run. &ndash; [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 20:14, November 22, 2020 (EST)
-:I, too, agree with LinkTheLefty. I'm not entirely sure why the Mega Sledge Bro has its own page; it's a single enemy in a single minigame in a single video game. I would just say it's a Sledge Bro.
-::[[User:Chikorita Lover|Chikorita Lover]] ([[User talk:Chikorita Lover|talk]]) 15:41, February 8, 2021 (EST)