Editing Talk:Robo Kikki

== Alternate internal name ==
Hey, since this enemy has an alternative internal name in MoncheeRobo, which matches closer to the English [[Monchee]] name (whereas the current name matches closer to the Japanese "Monkikki" name), wouldn't it be better to move this page to {{Fake link|Monchee Robo}} or {{Fake link|Robo Monchee}}? {{User:Arend/sig}} 09:32, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
:"Robo Monchee" makes sense, considering other internal names like "ShyGuySpear". [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 09:38, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
:: Well, it should be noted that Robo Kikki is its Japanese name, not just the internal data name. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 12:11, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::I've thought about it, but I think I'd rather it stick to the version that's corroborated by another source. Why there's two internal names, I'm unsure. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:19, April 1, 2024 (EDT)

== Rename "Robo Kikki" to "Robo Monchee" ==
{{TPP}}
I might wanna bring up this subject again, considering I have issues with the current name being "Robo Kikki", and not something like "Monchee Robo" or "Robo Monchee". I know that the Shogakukan guidebook for the GBA version exists, but we're talking about having the remake's internal names potentially taking priority over here, like what happened with [[Fire Shy Guy]]. From reading the naming policy:
*Shogakukan guidebooks are listed under 4: '''Name from a pre-Super Mario Galaxy Prima Games Strategy Guide or any other third-party guide'''. They're higher in priority than 6: '''Development name or name from internal data'''.
**The name "Robo Kikki" is sourced from the Shogakukan guidebook for the GBA version, but internal names "RoboKikki" and "MoncheeRobo" are from the Switch version which is released very recently. This creates a debatable issue of which name to use chronologically. I'll put this as reference: the article for [[Fire Shy Guy]] was already renamed from its Japanese name (Katakata Kaen Heihō) using its internal filename from the Switch version (FireShyGuy)
*The English name "Monchee" is also listed as an internal filename for the regular [[Monchee]] in the remake, and generally we prefer that English names take priority over Japanese ones. It is consistent with how the GBA version's instruction manual shows the name (even in EU versions of the manual.)
*While it's possible to rename the article to Monchee Robo, the name "Robo Monchee" is more preferred due to its naming being consistent with the Japanese name, "Robo Kikki".

The following options are offered in this case:
*'''Support: Rename to "Robo Monchee"''' - based on the internal name "MoncheeRobo", but word order is consistent with the Japanese name.
*'''Support: Rename to "Monchee Robo"''' - based on the internal name "MoncheeRobo" in the Switch version's internal data.
*'''Oppose: Retain original name'''

'''Proposer''': {{User|CyonOfGaia}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT

====Support: Rename to "Robo Monchee"====
#{{User|CyonOfGaia}} Per proposal.

====Support: Rename to "Monchee Robo"====

====Oppose: Retain original name====
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Whilst "MoncheeRobo" is just an internal name with no known public use, "Robo Kikki" is an internal name '''and''' the official Japanese name. Choosing the former over the latter would feel like cherry picking.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} per tendoJd.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
<s>#{{User|Camwoodstock}} According to our [[MarioWiki:Naming|naming policy]], names from print media take priority over internal names. Robo Kikki, being from the Shogakukan book, wins over the internal "MoncheeRobo" for now; unless someone can find it being used in a higher-priority source, of course.</s>

====Comments (Rename Robo Kikki)====
{{@|Camwoodstock}} By that logic, shouldn't the [[Fire Shy Guy]] and [[Thwomp Platform]] articles be moved to those subjects' Japanese names? [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 14:20, January 4, 2025 (EST)
:That's something I want to address in a separate proposal because I feel the Naming policy needs some tier adjustment and the internal data has been a gray area. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:28, January 4, 2025 (EST)
:Actually, hmm. Looking at it closer, would Monchee Robo fall under the "English names take priority no matter what" clause? {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 14:32, January 4, 2025 (EST)

Wouldn't the article have to be renamed to Robo Monchee if we prioritize the internal name, because that's basically what we've done with other MvDK enemies... well, the Shy Guy ones, anyway (e.g. [[Fire Shy Guy]]'s internal name is actually "ShyGuyFire", and [[Wrench Shy Guy]]'s is "ShyGuyWrench"). {{User:Arend/sig}} 14:42, January 4, 2025 (EST)
:The problem is that there are no traces of the Japanese forms in those other examples, near as I can tell. Robo Kikki is unique in that it has two sources (Shogakukan and internal). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:45, January 4, 2025 (EST)
::You mean that it has ''two internal names'', right (with RoboKikki being from its .bfres.zs file, and MoncheeRobo from its .pack.zs one)? Because I'm pretty sure both Fire Shy Guy and Wrench Shy Guy also have Japanese names in the Shogakukan guide, too (Katakata Kaen Heihō and Katakata Spanner Heihō, respectively). {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:07, January 4, 2025 (EST)
:::Or another way to look at it is one of the two internal names are corroborated by a non-internal source. Either way, those are outside the scope of this proposal and will probably be taken care of by a broader proposal I have in mind when I have the time to draft it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:05, January 4, 2025 (EST)
:::Yeah... right now the whole naming policy is a bit of a mess right now, which is especially my motivation for deciding how we should name this article going forward. Chronological release naming is one of my major concerns with the current naming policy right now especially in the case of remakes. --[[User:CyonOfGaia|CyonOfGaia]] ([[User talk:CyonOfGaia|talk]]) 20:04, January 4, 2025 (EST)
::::Chronology usually took a backseat to English (not that I agreed with that, but it is what it is). Dev data is, again, a gray area, but I do have a few ideas. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 20:58, January 4, 2025 (EST)
@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Rename "Robo Kikki" to "Robo Monchee" ==
-{{settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{proposal outcome|no consensus|6-0-5}}
 I might wanna bring up this subject again, considering I have issues with the current name being "Robo Kikki", and not something like "Monchee Robo" or "Robo Monchee". I know that the Shogakukan guidebook for the GBA version exists, but we're talking about having the remake's internal names potentially taking priority over here, like what happened with [[Fire Shy Guy]]. From reading the naming policy:
 *Shogakukan guidebooks are listed under 4: '''Name from a pre-Super Mario Galaxy Prima Games Strategy Guide or any other third-party guide'''. They're higher in priority than 6: '''Development name or name from internal data'''.
@@ Line 20: / Line 19: @@
 '''Proposer''': {{User|CyonOfGaia}}<br>
-'''Deadline''': <s>January 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to January 25, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to February 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to February 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT
+'''Deadline''': January 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 ====Support: Rename to "Robo Monchee"====
 #{{User|CyonOfGaia}} Per proposal.
-#{{User|Wonder Time!}} Might as well.
-#{{User|PopitTart}} The naming policy states that English names take priority no matter what (I don't particularly agree with it, but its policy nonetheless), and I would say "Robo Monchee" is more of an English name than "Robo Kikki".
-#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per proposal
-#{{User|SComic}} Per all.
-#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per all.
 ====Support: Rename to "Monchee Robo"====
@@ Line 36: / Line 30: @@
 #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} per tendoJd.
 #{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
-#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all.
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
 <s>#{{User|Camwoodstock}} According to our [[MarioWiki:Naming|naming policy]], names from print media take priority over internal names. Robo Kikki, being from the Shogakukan book, wins over the internal "MoncheeRobo" for now; unless someone can find it being used in a higher-priority source, of course.</s>
@@ Line 51: / Line 43: @@
 :::Yeah... right now the whole naming policy is a bit of a mess right now, which is especially my motivation for deciding how we should name this article going forward. Chronological release naming is one of my major concerns with the current naming policy right now especially in the case of remakes. --[[User:CyonOfGaia|CyonOfGaia]] ([[User talk:CyonOfGaia|talk]]) 20:04, January 4, 2025 (EST)
 ::::Chronology usually took a backseat to English (not that I agreed with that, but it is what it is). Dev data is, again, a gray area, but I do have a few ideas. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 20:58, January 4, 2025 (EST)
-Couldn't we just rename this to Robo Monchee under the whole derived names thing? [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:37, January 5, 2025 (EST)
-:As I understand it, it'd have to be "Robo Monkikki" and more examples to pull from in order for it to be applicable. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:50, January 5, 2025 (EST)
-Since we've gone past the deadline, we've reached a conclusion - Robo Kikki's name will be kept as is. Thanks for voting in this TPP! --[[User:CyonOfGaia|CyonOfGaia]] ([[User talk:CyonOfGaia|talk]]) 21:46, January 18, 2025 (EST)
-:Actually, according to the [[MarioWiki:Proposals#Rules|proposal rules]], if the first place option is ahead of the second place option by only one or two votes, “then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.” In the case of this proposal, the “Oppose” option is ahead of the “Rename to "Robo Monchee"” option by only one vote, and since 7 people in total have voted in the proposal, the “Oppose” option has 4/7 = 57.1% approval, which is less than 60%. Therefore, the proposal must be extended for one week. You can use the {{tem|proposal check}} template to automate this calculation, like this:
-{{proposal check|4|3|7}}
-:{{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 03:01, January 19, 2025 (EST)
-We've gone past the deadline already and this is the third time the TPP has been extended due to it not reaching a consensus due to a very low vote margin. However, as of now, it still has not reached a proper consensus for that same reason, so I'll sadly have to declare this as '''failed to reach consensus'''. Please note that for anyone who wants to restart this TPP, you'll need to wait 4 weeks after the last proposal deadline here. Thank you for voting either way, but for now, we'll keep Robo Kikki as the name in the meantime. --{{User:CyonOfGaia/sig}} 22:46, February 8, 2025 (EST)