Editing Talk:Ridley

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===DRAGON???===
How is Ridley a dragon? He looks more like an Aerodactyl gone bad. Oh, and dragons don't get reincarnated as robots. Georgedrake Z

I fail to see how Ridley looking somewhat similar to an Aerodactyl does not make him a dragon. Also, after he was beaten, Ridley was rebuilt with cybernetics, not reincarnated. -- [[User:Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]] 01:22, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

===Split [[Ridley]] into [[Ridley]] and [[Meta Ridley]]===
{{TPP}}
Meta Ridley should really have his own article, as he is a separate entity from Ridley; it's really no different than [[Dino Piranha]] and [[Fiery Dino Piranha]], or [[Gobblegut]] and [[Fire Gobblegut]]. 

'''Proposer''': {{User|Phoenix}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <s>March 3, 2011, 23:59 GMT</s> '''Extended''': <s>March 10, 2011, 23:59 GMT</s>, March 17, 2011, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Phoenix}} Per my proposal.
#{{User|Arend}} Else articles like [[Midbus]] and [[Blizzard Midbus]] aren't split, right?
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} It's more consistent with them split because [[Fawful]] is split from [[Dark Fawful]], [[Fire Gobblegut]] is separate from [[Gobblegut]], [[Cackletta]] from [[Bowletta]], etc. Plus, aren't they two different creatures?
#{{User|Tails777}} Per all.
#{{User|MATEOELBACAN}} Per all.
#{{User|Reddragon19k}} That's a per all on that! Split them!
#{{User|HenryClaylogan}} Per all.
#{{User|AxemGreen33}} I agree with Fawfulfury65. You don't see [[Fire Mario]] merged with [[Mario]], do you? So, per all.
#{{User|Kingbowser99}} Agreed.
#{{User|DKC2 King Liam}} Same guy with a different form.
#{{User|Loxo}} Per {{User|Phoenix}}.
#{{User|Nicke8}} Per all.
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - Our wiki covers the Super Smash Bros. series as well as all the Mario & related series. Just because we are not a specialist wiki on those series does not mean that we can just say "ah, forget it". We have to cover everything we cover adequately, and as Ridley and Meta Ridley are two different bosses in the game, we should cover them as two different bosses on the wiki.
#{{User|Reversinator}} Per all.
#{{User|UltraMario3000}} Per all.
#{{User|Count Bonsula}} Per all.

====Oppose====
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! I get what you're saying but those monsters are separate creatures, not the same. Meta Ridley is a medically, biologically, advanced creature with cybernetics version of Ridley, they're not separate creatures, and currently we are merging a lot of alter egos together, but overall I think we should leave that for the Metroid Wiki. Zero signing out.
#{{User|SWFlash}} Let's split Behemoth King from [[Behemoth]] as well then? Per Zero.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all. I'd like to see those other "forms" merged with the main articles anyway. Let Metroid Wiki focus on the many facets of Ridley: that's their job, whereas our coverage of his role in ''SSBB'' in both his forms is perfectly fine with this one article.
#{{User|M&SG}} - Technically, we are talking about the exact same Ridley.  Therefore, it would seem pretty redundant to split Ridley's article.  This also applies to similar articles, such as [[Awk]] (which includes Rawk), [[Buckbot]] (which includes Buckbomb), and even [[Behemoth]] (includes Behemoth King), since we don't want to end up with more stubbed articles.
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per Walkazo.
#{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} - This is the Mario Wiki. Ridley is not part of the ''Mario'' series, only being in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl''. His attacks, unlike [[Fire Gobblegut]] and [[Blizzard Midbus]], are not notable, nor named, and are very alike, both to his other attacks as Meta Ridley and his attacks as regular Ridley. There isn't too much physical difference, and his style of fighting hasn't changed much; just the battleground.
#{{User|Knife}} - Per all. I feel that our coverage is fine with this article.
#{{User|Bop1996}} Per all. It quite clearly states in Metroid Prime and elsewhere that they are the same creature, and the difference is only important in the Metroid series.
#{{User|Rise Up Above It}} Yeah, there's not a notable difference or reason for splitting them, other than one is a more cybernetic/mechanised version. Per all.
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} Unlike Bowser and Giga Bowser, there is no distinct diffrence.
#{{User|Reboot}} Per all, especially Walkazo, MrCD and Bop.
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} Save it for the Metroid Wiki. Per all.
#{{User|LeftyGreenMario}} Meta Ridley is mere a palette swap of Ridley other than a few "better" attacks and more vitality.
#{{User|Magikrazy51}} I'd say to split them if this was Metroid Wiki, but it isn't. Per Bop.
#{{User|Yoshiwaker}} Per Gamefreak, also, Smash Bros. isn't a fully Mario game.
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - Per Walkazo, Knife, and Gamefreak75.

====Comments====
M&SG, you're the ones that merged those articles together without anyone discussing anything. Shouldn't you have said something before merging them? And now I'm straying from the topic. --[[User:Reversinator|Reversinator]] 15:49, 19 February 2011 (EST)
:Maybe I should've proposed about that, but I never did a proposal before.  I just don't like the idea of seeing articles that appear to be stubbed. {{User|M&SG}} 17:55, 19 February 2011 (EST)
::This from Metroid Prime: "The reconstruction of geoform 187, code-named Ridley, was recently completed. After his defeat on Zebes, Command ordered a number of metagenetic improvements for him. Though aggressive, we were able to implement these changes in a cycle. The metamorphosis was painful, but quite successful in the end . . . We believe our creation, now called Meta Ridley, will become the mainstay of our security force, a job he will certainly relish." This makes it clear that all they did was take his body and improve it using technology, not change which creature he is. [[User:Bop1996|Geekiness is an end, not a means - Bop1996]] 13:19, 20 February 2011 (EST)
:::I seem to have prolonged the debate. I find this mildly amusing =P [[User:Bop1996|Geekiness is an end, not a means - Bop1996]] 20:27, 20 February 2011 (EST)
::::Okay, that's a valid point, although according to several of the above comments in the Oppose category, information from Metroid is irrelevant here... [[User:Phoenix|Phoenix]] 02:10, 21 February 2011 (EST)
:::::As far as I know, all the above comments say is that since they are the same person, and are so similar in Brawl, we don't need a separate article for them both. The only major differences being within the Metroid series, on which we have some information, but not as much as the Metroid Wiki. As far as Brawl goes, we do have lots of articles on Brawl that have been from other series, and we only have put enough information to cover Brawl, when I'm sure some members play other Nintendo series. [[User:Bop1996|Geekiness is an end, not a means - Bop1996]] 07:17, 21 February 2011 (EST)

Please use colons (:) to indent your comments, not asterisks (*). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 12:48, 22 February 2011 (EST)

:@ [[User:SWFlash|SWFlash]] and [[User:M&SG|M&SG]] - Well, actually, there ''are'' proposals to split those articles now... {{User|Phoenix}} 21:17, 27 February 2011 (EST)
::Someone must have took them literally {{User|Magikrazy51}}

After further thinking, I realized that if Ridley and Meta Ridley are merged, we would have to merge Samus and Zero Suit Samus, along with Zelda and Sheik. {{User:M&amp;SG/sig}} 07:42, 8 March 2011 (EST)
:Seeing as they're playable characters, one could argue they're more like [[Fire Mario]] and the other forms of Mario/Luigi/etc., and can remain separate on that basis. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 09:45, 8 March 2011 (EST)

@Marioguy1: We are not saying that we don't cover some of other series, what I am saying is that in the Metroid series, Meta Ridley is just an explanation for how Ridley could have survived his first battle with Samus, and a cool boss used to make the game better. Having played 100% through Metroid Prime, I can confirm this. In Brawl, Meta Ridley is just basically a palette swap, and in fought with a timer. That is the only difference between them. The difference is here, and noted, but is not large enough in the Mario or Mario-related series to warrant having two separate articles. The Metroid wiki needs two separate articles because they are separate bosses in the Metroid series, but not really within the Brawl series. Plus, if we have two separate articles, most of the Meta Ridley article would talk about how similar he was to Ridley, and then mention the differences. We already do that here on the Ridley page. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}

We'll have to extend the time again. It's tied 14-14. {{User|Magikrazy51}}
:Maybe not{{User|Magikrazy51}}
::@Bop1996: 
#Let's presume, for the duration of this conversation, that a palette swap means nothing. Because that's how I see it. You're thinking out-of-universe, just because two characters look the same, even if they look ''identical'', they could still be different.
#The second thing I want to say is that "and in [sic] fought with a timer. That is the only difference between them." is not a valid point either, considering the gist of that is "their boss battles are totally different. That is the only difference between them." - that is also the only difference between Meta Ridley and (e.g.) Duon (other than the aforementioned matter of changing appearance).
#Thirdly "they are separate bosses in the Metroid series, but not really within the Brawl series." - trust me, they are separate bosses in the Brawl series, I've played Brawl enough times to know that.
#Finally I'd just like to draw your attention to [[:File:MetaRidley Trophy.jpg|this image]]. I think the image explains my point just by itself. 

Now you see why I have no idea why this proposal has tied twice. {{User:Marioguy1/sig|Do I sound angry to anyone else?}}
:As well, I have prepared a sample version of what the article would look like; and I disagree with your last statement, the article does not just mention the differences, it takes information about Meta Ridley and displays it in a ''much'' more aesthetically pleasing and organized way than the current format. [[User:Marioguy1/Test|Here's the sample]]. {{User:Marioguy1/sig|Sorry if I do, Bop}}
::Hey, Marioguy. How longer can this proposal last if it keeps ending in ties? {{User|Magikrazy51}}
:::Technically, it can go on forever. {{User|Reversinator}}
Were you here for the FA nomination of Mario? If not, then let me explain, that nomination went on for over a year before finally being decided. This proposal can go on for that long, or even longer.{{User|Marioguy1}}

Marioguy: I will admit that the article does look better, and your reasoning seems sound. I have been arguing this whole time that the Ridley/Meta Ridley differences are not important enough in the ''Mario'' series, but since I don't own Brawl, (I'm just going on what is in the article) and you do, or you have played it a lot, I'll take your word for it. My main issue with the split was it was, presumably, taking two very similar bosses and splitting them based on the fact that they are two different creatures (they aren't) and the fact that we split Mario series enemies and bosses, while it seemed that there wasn't enough of a difference in the ''Mario'' series. I'm not sure whether to change my vote or not still, as it seems the sysops seem to think that it still needs to be saved for the Metroid wiki. Thanks for taking the time to argue with an insane video game nerd. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
:I also think if they are split, we need to link to the Metroid wiki page (this is something a lot of Brawl pages need) because someone looking here(just for the sake of argument) who owns Brawl might be confused about the Ridley/Meta Ridley differences, and the Metroid wiki page would explain it all. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}