Editing Talk:Proto Piranha

==Article Title==

I was wondering: is there any generator in the game that does not have a Piranha Plant inside?  For that reason, I would think that we should use the name "Goop Generator" for this article instead.  I have heard this name used before by official strategy guides (PRIMA calls them this if you're wondering).  The title as it stands just seems redundant.  Plus, we don't know that these are really Piranha plants.  The Goop surrounding most other Piranha Plants can be sprayed off, but not for these guys.  They may be Piranha Plant-shaped Goop for all we know. --[[User:Stumpers|Stumpers]]

:[[Goop Generator]] does indeed exist as a separate article, so the two may be merged; by the way, Prima is not official. Also, the back of Super Mario Sunshine's box identifies these as Piranha Plants. {{User:YellowYoshi398/sig}}

Then PRIMA lied to me.  *beep* morons.  Thanks for the head's-up.  Okay.  I say we start the merge action, then.  {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 19:14, 3 June 2007 (EDT)

the official walk-through names them as 'Gate keepers' this name should be used!! {{unsigned|Wiki443556}}
:What official walkthrough? {{User:Bloc Partier/sig}}

That does not give you permission to retitle the page, just because some walkthrough said it. Unless that was the NINTENDO OFFICIAL WALKTHROUGH, made by Nintendo itself, that name is most likely false. All walkthroughs are official as long as they properly tell you everything. {{User:Dry Paratroopa/sig}}
:In fact, until some good proof is shown, I'm changing it back. {{User:Dry Paratroopa/sig}}

Uh, yeah, I really really think the title of this article should be changed to "Polluted Piranha" or "Polluted Piranha Plant", as that is what they are referred to as in the guide book. Also, doesn't it kind of just sound better...? {{User:Phoenix/sig}} 23:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
:What guide book? Those things aren't even 50% reliable. Besides, this would force us to change the name of Goop Generator to some random, crap, unofficial name. These plants live in the Goop '''Generators''', that's why they're called '''Piranha Plant(s) in the Generator(s)'''. Plus, it's a more official-sounding name. {{User:Frostyfireyoshi/sig}} 14:43, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it's Nintendo Power...well, if you say so, I just think "Polluted Piranha" more effectively describes what the role of it is in the game. When I first read the other name, the first thing that popped into my head was like a generator that you use when your power goes out...could we at least change it to "Piranha Plant in the Goop Generator", you know, to avoid confusion and be more specific...?
{{User:Phoenix/sig}} 02:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:NP is about 50% reliable, as shown by Knife's handy listing below. I understand the electricity point; I thought that at first, but then I read the Goop Generator page, and it made sense (well, to me it did, anyway. Not sure about other users). {{User:Frostyfireyoshi/sig}} 13:29, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Well again, whatever you think is right...I just think it sounds kind of redundant as it is, u know? To me, it would sound a lot better if it was changed...
{{User:Phoenix/sig}} 21:28, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

==Oppose Merge==
# {{User:Plumber/Pignature}} 15:32, 26 July 2007 (EDT) It is not the Generator, it lives in the Generator. Should Earth be merged with everything?

==Support Merge==

==Comments==

This is SO not the place for this. It would go as a Proposal. {{User:Dry Paratroopa/sig}}


==GateKeeper==

Is "Versusbooks" official? it says it is. Anyway, they're called GateKeepers in that.{{Unsigned|Lu-igi board}}

:I'm pretty sure that Versus Books is unofficial. --[[User:Reversinator|Reversinator]] 13:42, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Reversinator is correct. In fact, here's a list of official sources in order of priority (this list applies to naming only):

#North American in-game information (naming on the wiki will usually come from the NoA translation)
#Japanese in-game information (can also apply to games that were originally developed outside of Japan)
#Other regional in-game information
#Instruction booklets
#Nintendo Power
#Prima
#Development name
#Users (this will always be conjectural and should only be done if nothing can be found for the above)

For any users passing by this post, keep this in mind.--{{User|Knife}} 04:29, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

==Exactly==

Yeah, and since Nintendo Power calls them "Polluted Piranha Plants", and that comes before users, that's what the article should be called...
{{User:Phoenix/sig}} 14:28, 14 January 2011 (EST)

==Change the title of this article from "Piranha Plant in the Generator" to "Polluted Piranha Plant"==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|18-2|CHANGE THE TITLE }} 
Alright, I've put up with this long enough...the title of this article needs to be changed! The title is needlessly lengthy and frankly too reliant on the [[Goop Generator]] article for clarification. I can understand arguments that say it makes sense because it comes out of a Goop Generator, but [[Bullet Bill]]s come out of [[Bill Blaster]]s, and [[Bob-omb]]s sometimes come out of [[Bob-omb Dispenser]]s, and we don't call them "Bullet Bill in the Blaster" or "Bob-omb in the Dispenser," why should this be any different?  

'''Proposer''': {{User|Phoenix}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 13, 2011, 23:59 GMT 

===Support===
#{{User|Phoenix}} Per my proposal.
#{{User|LeftyGreenMario}} The current name is a misnomer. The name implies that the Piranha Plant is INSIDE a generator and has nothing to do with its appearance. Polluted Piranha Plant is a better-fitting name. Besides, the current name we have is a mouthful, and changing the name means less words, which means it is less tiresome for the reader.
#{{User|UltraMario3000}} Per LGM.
#{{User|DKC2 King Liam}} Just sounds more reasonable.
#{{User|FourPaperHeroes}} Per all.
#{{User|Ultrahammer5365}} Kinda new at this, but yeah, per all.(I AM doing this right, aren't I?)
#{{User|SWFlash}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Bop1996}} Per proposal. (What? It's a good proposal.)
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} Per all.
#{{User|Loxo}} I agree with you, Pheonix.
#{{User|IGGY7735}} Makes sense.
#{{User|Magikrazy51}} Piranha Plant in the Generator, Monty Mole in the Cannon/Tank, Lakitu and Spiny in the Cloud, Goomba in the Boot, see the problem?
#{{User|TheBreakshift}} Per all, particularly {{User|Magikrazy51}}.
#{{User|Yoshidude99}} Sounds better considering they made out out of goop.
#{{User|Mariomario64}} Polluted Piranha Plant sounds more fitting; plus, Piranha Plant in the Generator is a little too long of a name
#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Per Mariomario64
#{{User|Reddragon19k}} Per all if you please!
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per all.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Rise Up Above It}} Per Edo. I'd prefer to merge the two articles.
#{{User|Fuzzipede27}} Per All. They are the same thing.

===Comments===
I don't understand why we even have separate articles for Goop Generator and Piranha Plant in the Generator, since the piranha plant is just an extention of the generator. You never encounter a plant without a generator (unlike Bullet Bills or Bob-ombs), and every generator has at least one plant. You could say the plants are the heads and the generator is the body. Once you destroy all the heads, the body dies, and the generator vanishes. For me that's enough to consider it one big creature. We don't have, iirc, separate articles for body parts (King Bob-omb's Mustache, olol), so the two things should be merged to Goop Generator, Polluted Piranha Plant, or whatever fancy name that comes to mind. - {{user|Edofenrir}}

:@ [[User:Rise Up Above It|Rise Up Above It]] - I agree with [[User:Edofenrir|Edofenrir]] too, but there's no reason why we can't simply change the title of the article and then merge it to [[Goop Generator]] if that's what people want...my main priority is getting the name changed, but I can also see where merging the two articles would be useful as well. I just think we should handle that with two separate proposals... {{User|Phoenix}} 14:39, 26 February 2011 (EST)
::Yeah, that would be a viable option. - {{user|Edofenrir}}

The Pirahna Plant in Mario Power Tennis does not come out of the generator, though. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 21:51, 26 February 2011 (EST)
:It comes out of a slime puddle with a bulge in its center. I think it's a mere design choice. - {{user|Edofenrir}}

Hmmm. I prefer the long name, but then merging the two articles together under a new conjectural name...couldn't we simply merge the articles together and leave the name as Piranh Plant in the Generator? {{User:Frostyfireyoshi/sig}} 11:25, 27 February 2011 (EST)

Well, like I said above, the title is way too long, and I just think that it's unnecessary for it to be that long... {{User|Phoenix}} 15:22, 27 February 2011 (EST)

:Also, as an added bonus, we can finally get rid of the conjectural template... {{User|Phoenix}} 17:59, 9 March 2011 (EST)

Perhaps we could make Piranha Plant in the Generator a redirect for those who don't know about this proposal. {{User|Magikrazy51}}

I'll take care of that after it passes... {{User|Phoenix}} 17:34, 11 March 2011 (EST)

:Actually, in Bianco Hills episode 1 there is a generator that spawns [[Strollin' Stu]]s. {{User|Pseudo-dino}}

::Yeah, I was gonna mention that, but I didn't know if it had an official name or not... {{User|Phoenix}} 12:47, 12 March 2011 (EST)

== Unused goop textures ==

{{talk}}
So what's the deal with the unused goop textures? Based on the reason 7feetunder gave for removing them from this page entirely ("''this is not unused content, the proto piranhas simply use the goop texture assigned to the level they appear in, and there just happen to be no proto piranhas in sirena or pianta. there's no parameter that controls it.''") I'm under the impression that the Proto Piranhas automatically use the goop textures associated with their locations, hence why we have them with unused Sirena Beach/Pianta Village textures. But he's also insistent that it's not something the Proto Piranhas are coded to do in the game at all, which would obviously be contradictory, and if that's the case, then where did these come from in the first place? Was someone just messing with the game and applying textures that don't belong? Basically I'd just like a more detailed explanation of exactly what's going on here. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 14:45, June 28, 2022 (EDT)
:I'm not an expert but I think it works like this;
:-The goop changes type depending on the area/mission
:-Proto Piranhas are coded to be covered in goop
:-The goop's type is therefore carried over to the Proto Piranha & is not necessarily hard-coded into the Proto Piranha object itself
:{{User:Somethingone/sig}} 15:12, June 28, 2022 (EDT)
::^ Precisely. The bit about the alleged "unused Gatekeeper variants" [https://tcrf.net/index.php?title=Super_Mario_Sunshine/Unused_Objects&diff=785172&oldid=783712 was] [https://tcrf.net/index.php?title=Super_Mario_Sunshine/Unused_Objects&diff=787388&oldid=787192 removed] from the previously cited TCRF page very quickly for this reason. There is no coding specifically designed to make Proto Piranhas use electric or fire goop textures, it's automatically applied when Protos are placed in Sirena Beach or Pianta Village because they are programmed to automatically use whatever goop texture is assigned to the level. That's like if I took Iggy's Castle from ''SMW'' and changed its background palette to the one used by Yoshi's Island 1 or something. It's not unused content, it's a side effect of the Proto Piranha's programming. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 15:22, June 28, 2022 (EDT)
:::This is a 3D equivalent to "Goombas are blue underground," so yeah, not "unused" by any but the most ridiculously literal definition. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:51, June 28, 2022 (EDT)
::::The question remains of what to do with [[:File:SMS Green-Yellow Gatekeeper.png|these]] [[:File:SMS Fire Gatekeeper.png|two]] images that were removed from the page and orphaned in the process. On the one hand, they're screenshots of what seems to be a modified version of the game (unless there's some weird glitch I'm not aware of) and should be removed on that basis; on the other hand, I'm of the opinion they help illustrate how Proto Piranhas would look depending on what texture is assigned to goop in a given area, and that may still warrant a crumb of coverage. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:39, June 28, 2022 (EDT)

Probably wait to see what others think, but maybe the images could fit in a Trivia section explaining how the plants work? Seems like a noteworthy thing that's not normally seen to me, like how I brought up Paper Mario's Badge Limit (which also needs answers)[[User:Pikmin theories|Pikmin theories]] ([[User talk:Pikmin theories|talk]]) 00:57, June 29, 2022 (EDT)
@@ Line 58: / Line 58: @@
 ==Change the title of this article from "Piranha Plant in the Generator" to "Polluted Piranha Plant"==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{SettledTPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|18-2|CHANGE THE TITLE }}
+{{ProposalOutcome|passed|18-2|CHANGE THE TITLE }}
 Alright, I've put up with this long enough...the title of this article needs to be changed! The title is needlessly lengthy and frankly too reliant on the [[Goop Generator]] article for clarification. I can understand arguments that say it makes sense because it comes out of a Goop Generator, but [[Bullet Bill]]s come out of [[Bill Blaster]]s, and [[Bob-omb]]s sometimes come out of [[Bob-omb Dispenser]]s, and we don't call them "Bullet Bill in the Blaster" or "Bob-omb in the Dispenser," why should this be any different?
@@ Line 114: / Line 114: @@
 == Unused goop textures ==
+{{talk}}
 So what's the deal with the unused goop textures? Based on the reason 7feetunder gave for removing them from this page entirely ("''this is not unused content, the proto piranhas simply use the goop texture assigned to the level they appear in, and there just happen to be no proto piranhas in sirena or pianta. there's no parameter that controls it.''") I'm under the impression that the Proto Piranhas automatically use the goop textures associated with their locations, hence why we have them with unused Sirena Beach/Pianta Village textures. But he's also insistent that it's not something the Proto Piranhas are coded to do in the game at all, which would obviously be contradictory, and if that's the case, then where did these come from in the first place? Was someone just messing with the game and applying textures that don't belong? Basically I'd just like a more detailed explanation of exactly what's going on here. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 14:45, June 28, 2022 (EDT)
 :I'm not an expert but I think it works like this;
@@ Line 123: / Line 124: @@
 :::This is a 3D equivalent to "Goombas are blue underground," so yeah, not "unused" by any but the most ridiculously literal definition. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:51, June 28, 2022 (EDT)
 ::::The question remains of what to do with [[:File:SMS Green-Yellow Gatekeeper.png|these]] [[:File:SMS Fire Gatekeeper.png|two]] images that were removed from the page and orphaned in the process. On the one hand, they're screenshots of what seems to be a modified version of the game (unless there's some weird glitch I'm not aware of) and should be removed on that basis; on the other hand, I'm of the opinion they help illustrate how Proto Piranhas would look depending on what texture is assigned to goop in a given area, and that may still warrant a crumb of coverage. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:39, June 28, 2022 (EDT)
-:::::I don't think this should be covered since unused content implies that it exists as data but isn't loaded into memory or camera view under normal gameplay conditions. TCRF only allows things to stand if there is something hard-coded instead of soft-coded and there is actual data to support the existence of the things claimed. One example that comes to mind is [[tcrf:Portal 2#Unused Textures|adhesion and reflection gels]]. It's more than just a Hammer parameter change. There is code and color changes behind the scrapped gels. Since there are no reference points for the texture variants, it's just an oddity and insight to how the game is programed under the hood. I don't think {{SITENAME}} wants to document technical aspects of any covered game. If that were the case, we would have a never-ending list of things to document for the decompilation of ''[[Super Mario 64]]''. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 20:34, October 17, 2024 (EDT)
 Probably wait to see what others think, but maybe the images could fit in a Trivia section explaining how the plants work? Seems like a noteworthy thing that's not normally seen to me, like how I brought up Paper Mario's Badge Limit (which also needs answers)[[User:Pikmin theories|Pikmin theories]] ([[User talk:Pikmin theories|talk]]) 00:57, June 29, 2022 (EDT)
-== "This fight can be skipped if Mario collects another Shine Sprite" ==
-Is there a source for this? Just tested it and the only time it happened was when I collected the lighthouse shine above the Polluted Piranha, which I had to upwarp to the ceiling of the map in order to obtain. Collecting a shine in an episode or secret course in the plaza didn't work, neither did collecting either of the two shines near to the one guarding the boathouse. --[[User:Jeorge535|Jeorge535]] ([[User talk:Jeorge535|talk]]) 06:53, March 9, 2024 (EST)
-:Hm. That was there when I rewrote the article. I figured it was like when the plaza floods when Corona Mountain opens up. But I guess that one doesn't actually work like that either, since I don't think you even need to actually ''collect'' anything to get rid of the flood. I was gonna whack a [citation needed] on it and say to axe it if you feel confident it's bunk, but it looks like it's already gone, which I'm not gonna fight. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 03:05, March 10, 2024 (EDT)
-I don't have a source for it, but I added that as that was my personal experience, all I did was continue collecting Shine Sprites instead and when I returned back to the plaza the plants were gone and portal were open both times..... sadly have no way of recording it so I can't verify it. but I swear that's what really happened. was ages ago pretty sure it was way back before 3D All Stars was a thing.[[User:Pikmin theories|Pikmin theories]] ([[User talk:Pikmin theories|talk]]) 03:11, March 10, 2024 (EDT)
-No idea if it makes any difference or not, but the version that I have is the Kmart one that came with the strategy guide. I suppose, it also could've been my wii glitching out on me, but I'm not so sure. I'll try playing it again and seeing if i can get it to happen again when I get the chance.[[User:Pikmin theories|Pikmin theories]] ([[User talk:Pikmin theories|talk]]) 03:33, March 10, 2024 (EDT)
-Hold on, just had a thought. Maybe it wasn't the shine sprite itself, I just had enough to trigger the next event which caused the plants to despawn, I think remember I was getting all the possible shine to get normally before as well as blue coins, before saving the piantia statue, so I probably had over 5 shines when the Ricco Harbor one despawned on me which triggered the Gelato Beach one to spawn after getting a shine. and then I probably ended up with over 10 by turning in my blue coins which despawned the Gelato Beach Plant and triggered the Bowser Boat.[[User:Pikmin theories|Pikmin theories]] ([[User talk:Pikmin theories|talk]]) 03:54, March 10, 2024 (EDT)
-:When I play and go for all possible shines, it waits for the next state until I've solved the current problem. I always go for all the Bianco Hills ones before moving on to Ricco Harbor, and sometimes I do several Pianta Village ones before spawning the Bianco Hills statue. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:43, March 10, 2024 (EDT)
-Just tried to recreate the events today, and they did not despawn.... weird... I swear on the file it happened on i never fought either one, guess it was just some weird rare glitch... rather odd for it to happen to both of them though...[[User:Pikmin theories|Pikmin theories]] ([[User talk:Pikmin theories|talk]]) 16:51, March 10, 2024 (EDT)