Editing Talk:Potted Piranha Plant

==(First topic)==
Umm...I would just like to say that every time I played multiplayer with the Potted Piranha Plant, it powered everyone else down. Many other videos example this as well.--[[User:Herobrine8219|Herobrine8219]] ([[User talk:Herobrine8219|talk]]) 22:33, 15 January 2014 (EST)Herobrine8219

:That would be weird, as far as I can see, it powers them down if they touch it, not if it bites them. Also it would hurt you and turn on you if your not holding it, and when like that it is a normal Pirhana Plant. I hope this doesn't lead to a contradiction. Toadbrigade5(Sorry for not actually logging in)

==A question==
Didn't potted piranha plants first appear in the Mario Party 3 minigame [[Storm Chasers]]? [[User:Metal Boo|Metal Boo]] ([[User talk:Metal Boo|talk]]) 11:29, 20 June 2014 (EDT)
:Well, technically yes, but they don't actually have the same function as the ones in ''SM3DW'' and ''MK8'' do. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 15:45, 20 June 2014 (EDT)

== Rename ==

Just as the rename template at the top of the article says, this article should probably be renamed to "Piranha Plant (potted)". The name "Potted Piranha Plant" is conjectural, and the ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' [https://youtu.be/ZKB9FEXhJ68?t trailer] refers to them as just "Piranha Plants". --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 20:12, 28 March 2017 (EDT)
:In the North America trailer for MK8D, it's misspelled "Pirahna Plant." Should this be worth mentioning? &ndash; [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 20:42, 28 March 2017 (EDT)
::I'll say yes to Owen, but it might be best to make a proposal about the rename, as "Potted Piranha Plant" sounds better to me. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 20:51, 28 March 2017 (EDT)
:::My mom (an non-user) says that Potted Piranha Plant sounds better to her, and I agree with her. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 20:53, 28 March 2017 (EDT)
::::We could just mention on the article that they are occasionally referred to as "Piranha Plants". I do agree that Potted Piranha Plant sounds better, I just made the comment about renaming it because "Piranha Plant" is more official. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 21:06, 28 March 2017 (EDT)
:::::Considering they typoed the name, I'm not sure if I can regard it as "official". Does the ''Mario Kart 8'' eManual (as I'm calling it) list the items? I'd check that myself, but I kinda sorta just turned off my Wii U... {{User:Alex95/sig}} 22:22, 28 March 2017 (EDT)
::::::I just checked the manual, and they are in fact called Piranha Plants. It can be seen at 1:00 in this [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8P0Zd6_zElw video]. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 22:27, 28 March 2017 (EDT)
:::::::Yep, just checked the manual myself as well. Simply "Piranha Plant" is the offical name, so I'm all for the move. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 00:36, 29 March 2017 (EDT)
::::::::Do you think a talk page proposal should be created about the rename? --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 09:35, 29 March 2017 (EDT)
:::::::::It's a conjectural name moving to an official name. So no. {{User|Yoshi876}}
::::::::::OK, thanks. I will move it now. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 09:39, 29 March 2017 (EDT)

== Potential for merging? ==
So, in the original SMB manual, pipes are described as pots, ''actual'' Piranha Plants in pots appear as enemies in SML2, and many of the appearances here seem a tad generic in conception. If [[Mario Kart: Double Dash!!|Chain Chomp]] and [[Mario Kart DS|Bullet Bill]] can be an enemy and an item at the same time, so can Piranha Plant. At the very least, maybe merge everything that doesn't have the distinct JP name associated with it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:46, March 14, 2020 (EDT)
:Yeah, I agree with at least a partial merge. Piranha Plants basically behave the same whether they're in a pot, a pipe, or just planted in the ground. At the very least I'd like to see the generic instances of potted Piranha Plants merged (Super Show, Mario Party, Rabbids, Smash, Tennis Aces) and leave this page as being only for its context as an item, although a full merge would be fine too. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:51, March 14, 2020 (EDT)
::I'd be fine with merging said sections. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 14:24, March 14, 2020 (EDT)

==Determine what to do with this article==
{{settled TPP}}
{{proposal outcome|passed|3-10-0|merge non-item sections}}
To be blunt, this page in its current state is bad. While it was originally created to cover the item from 3D World, as often happens it ended up being a page covering every generic instance of a Piranha Plant appearing in a pot. An article for that purpose doesn't need to exist, as Piranha Plants behave effectively the same whether they're in a pipe, a pot, or just planted in the ground, and if unchained Chain Chomps are on the way out, we don't need to keep this and it should be merged with Piranha Plant entirely, with the exception of its appearance in Mario Tennis Aces which would be merged to Fire Piranha Plant instead. Alternatively, we trim this article down to only cover potted Piranha Plants as an item, leaving only 3D World, the Mario Kart series, and Treasure Tracker. While this isn't entirely consistent with how we treat other enemies-turned-items such as Bullet Bill, Chain Chomp, and Boo, it would return this article to its original intended state and make it more useful than a generic catch-all. I'm personally fine with either option, as long as something is done.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 17, 2020, 23:59 GMT

===Merge to Piranha Plant===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}}
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} If "this isn't entirely consistent with how we treat other enemies-turned-items", then I don't believe it needs to be an exception. Yes, there is a unique Japanese name for ''Super Mario 3D World'', but I think that's more the result of the game's guide authors differentiating from its role as an enemy: in the ''Mario Kart'' series appearance, it's [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HljJvwifETg&t=1m18s Packun Flower], which may suggest that it's a one-off. There's already a fair bit of overlap if the rest of the info on the page is any indication, and as explained, a Piranha Plant is still a Piranha Plant regardless of where it grows. The fact that Piranha Plant's ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' guidance includes every variation from the main series but excludes it doesn't help its case.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Per LTL.

===Merge non-item sections===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}}
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} While it's true that most item/enemies are merged in full, that's primarily for racing/sport-type games. With the exception of [[Bob-omb]], platformers are in a bit different boat. Also to consider is the special JP name for 3DWorld.
#{{User|JoeRunner}} Makes sense to me, since its actual behavior is different enough that they could warrant their own page (which is why the page was created in the first place, of course). A way we could decide whether or not it's covered on this page is if it's called "Potted Piranha Plant" in-game or in official promotions and websites, like in SM3DW, CT:TT, and MK8. (EDIT: Well, maybe not Treasure Tracker, but it's obviously the same type of item.)
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all, and my thoughts above.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} My preferred option.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per all.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|bwburke94}} Per all.
#{{User|Duckfan77}} Per all.

===Do nothing===

===Comments===
@JoeRunner: Unfortunately it's never been given a unique English name, hence the title just having an identifier, but it'd be fairly easy to determine what belongs here anyway. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:08, April 3, 2020 (EDT)

Another thing that is important to note is that it looks like an earlier MKAGP game had a ''pink'' potted Piranha as an item, though I do not know the exact context of it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:59, April 3, 2020 (EDT)
:<s>If you're talking about GP DX, I noticed and it would stay here unless we find out it's not an item. For now, I'm assuming it is one.</s> [[Piranha_Plant#Mario_Kart_Arcade_GP_subseries|Yep, it's an item]]. Not quite the same function as Mario Kart 8, but close enough that I think it can be moved here. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:40, April 3, 2020 (EDT)

==Restoration of its SMBSS, MP3, M&RKB, and MPTT100 credentials==
I'd like to propose restoring this baddie's [[The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!]], [[Mario Party 3]], [[Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle]], and [[Mario Party: The Top 100]] credentials. They were in pots, either being weapons, an unfortunate victim of one of [[Spawny]]'s fusions with another [[Rabbid]], or just potted plants to grow in the rain. It's just not right to erase history just because they're named ''Piranha Plants'', when in reality, they're just different because of being in a pot. I hope Waluigi can undo the error he has made, because as they say, "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it".--[[User:Pyroman99|Pyroman99]] ([[User talk:Pyroman99|talk]]) 16:57, July 5, 2020 (EDT)
:I don't appreciate you calling my proposal an "error" just because you personally disagree with it, but that's not the point here. I suggest you read the arguments in the proposal and the [[Talk:Piranha Plant (potted)#Potential for merging?|discussion that preceded it]]. The point of this page in its current state is for potted Piranha Plants as an item, not any generic occurrence of a Piranha Plant being in a pot. If you still feel like the other sections need to be added back, you can make another proposal to undo it. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:11, July 5, 2020 (EDT)
::The "Piranha Plant in a pot" design aspect is coincidental with the current usage where you can hold the Piranha Plant, in a handheld plant pot, and use it specifically as an item. If anything, the ''Mario Party'' appearances could be merged back in since you do hold them in a pot, and though it's not quite the same role as the current Piranha Plant item, it could be mentioned as being the "precursor" to the item. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 19:31, July 5, 2020 (EDT)
:::Plus, in The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, Toad holds a potted Piranha Plant in one episode, so it should also be added back in.--[[Special:Contributions/24.44.76.88|24.44.76.88]] 19:09, July 31, 2020 (EDT)
::::Again, that requires a proposal. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 10:41, August 1, 2020 (EDT)

== Merge? ==

The Super Smash Bros. Ultimate [[Piranha Plant#Super Smash Bros. Ultimate|section]] has Piranha Plant (the fighter), which is in a pot. So should we merge this with [[Piranha Plant (potted)]]? [[User:DarkNight|DarkNight]] ([[User talk:DarkNight|talk]]) 01:00, July 11, 2020 (EDT)
:The purpose of this page is to detail the Piranha Plant, that lives in a pot, that is carryable and used as an item. I don't particularly think they were specifically making the item Piranha Plant into a playable fighter, but rather, they made the concept of the Piranha Plant enemy into a playable fighter. And by coincidence, they landed on the same design choice, by using the plant pot (or, they were inspired by this item to make the pot the primary design choice). At best we could mention that Piranha Plant primarily being in a pot in ''SSBU'' was inspired by the item. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 01:05, July 11, 2020 (EDT)

==Remove Mario Kart information from this article==
{{TPP}}
Something that bugged me for some time is that this page considers Mario Kart's Piranha Plant items to be Potted Piranha Plant's, and while yes, they do look like PPP, however both games actually just call them "Piranha Plant's". So they look like this different variant, but they are not actually named like that one. [[Talk:Fishin' Lakitu#Clean up this page|Sounds Familiar?]]. To me, it feels like a similar situation to [[Fishin' Lakitu]], regular Lakitu can hold a fishing pode and not be fishin Lakitu, so how is Pirahna Plant any different?
<gallery>
File:MKWorld Piranha Plant Racer.png|Also in Mario Kart World the playable Pirahna Plant is in the pot yet is still called just Pirahna Plant.
</gallery>
Proving my point that Mario Kart developers do treat PPP like regular Piranha Plant's, so if the games don't bother having a distinction, then why we should? 

EDIT: It seems like some users are misunderstanding what am I trying to get with this proposal, so here is better explanation:
What to keep:
*''Super Mario 3D World / Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury''
*''Super Mario-kun''
*''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker''
These are "pieces of media" where Potted Piranha Plants are clearly meant to be different from regular Piranha Plant and should stay here.

What to remove:
*''Mario Kart Arcade GP subseries''
*''Mario Kart 8 / Mario Kart 8 Deluxe''
these games consistently call them just Piranha Plant's, them being in pots doesn't matter since games like [[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]], [[Mario Tennis Aces]] with playable [[Fire Piranha Plant]] and now Mario Kart World show that developers can treat PPP design as regular Piranha Plant design, and the fact that [[Potted Piranha Plant#Names in other languages|they are named differently in Japanese sources too]] only proves more. Also "they function like PPP there for they must be PPP" is not good enough, [[Fire Piranha Plant#Notes|Fire Piranha Plant has this in it's notes section for a reason]].

'''Proposer''': {{User|Kirby the Formling}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT

===Remove Mario Kart information===
#{{User|Kirby the Formling}} Per all
#{{User|Hewer}} The 3D World appearance is the only one that really considers Potted Piranha Plants to be a different thing from normal Piranha Plants, with a different name and such, so I'd be fine with merging the Mario Kart appearances to the main Piranha Plant article since that would just leave 3D World. All the other appearances of Piranha Plants that happen to be in pots got moved for the same reason.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I feel like we should treat Potted Piranha Plant a little comparably to Goomba Tower as an attribute often applied to "normal" Piranha Plants - we should probably mention ''Mario Kart'' here in this, but I think in-depth info is more appropriate on the main Piranha Plant article.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Sorbetti}} They are Piranha plants....... in a pot, piranha plants and a pot, pot piranha plants. Also, as far as I know, the Smash Bros Ultimate Piranha Plant is not listed as a potted Piranha plant, so the one from Mario Kart World is not going to be either. Also all the potted piranhas have something in common, you can hold them in front of you to attack forward.!!.
#{{User|MarioComix}} <s>Based on the names used in the article's sections, it seems like Potted Piranha Plant was only used officially starting from ''Treasure Tracker'', so even in ''3D World'', it's just called Piranha Plant. As a result,</s> I think the page is meant to unify Piranha Plants where them being in a (usually carriable) pot is part of the "essence" of the appearance. While this clearly includes ''3D World'' and ''Treasure Tracker'' on the page, I think it's fair to include the Piranha Plant items from ''Mario Kart'' since they do appear as Piranha Plants in pots (and their function is the same as in ''3D World'', reaching out to bite whoever's in the vicinity). The page does exclude appearances of Piranha Plants in pots such as in [[Storm Chasers]], where they do not bite, and in ''NSMB Wii'' where they are in pots for the visuals alone. I also don't believe the Piranha Plant from ''Mario Kart World'' should end up being a major listing on this page since again, that's just a Piranha Plant in a pot, they could have put it in a pipe all the same.
#{{User|PrincessPeachFan}}: Per all.

===Comments===
{{@| Sorbetti}} You are right, but neither are Piranha Plant item's, I am talking aboud those being removed from the article. The Mario Kart World is just an example of how Potted Piranha Plant can be interpreted by the developers as a regular Piranha Plant. Just like the item Piranha Plant's I am talking aboud. [[User:Kirby the Formling|Kirby the Formling]] ([[User talk:Kirby the Formling|talk]]) 19:25, April 12, 2025 (EDT)
:This reminds me of [[Goomba Tower]], where there are games in which this formation appears but isn't mentioned, like Mario Oddisey, Mario Maker, or MyL Brothership. Sometimes there isn't much official information, sometimes you just see some Goombas stacked up to form a tower and you say, "That's a Goomba Tower."[[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]]) 19:29, April 12, 2025 (EDT)
::There is a small detail that we are ignoring, it's that they are officialy named just "Pirahna Plant's" in game, they are given a name that is not Potted Piranha Plant. Have Goomba Towers ever been called in game just regular Goombas or just not named at all? There is a difference. [[User:Kirby the Formling|Kirby the Formling]]  ([[User talk:Kirby the Formling|talk]]) 19:40, April 12, 2025 (EDT)
:::The name Potted Piranha Plant is very long, so it is usually just used Piranha Plant. The difference with Smash Bros and Mario Kart World is that the pot is used as a resource to explain how a Piranha Plant can move on the ground, (although there are Trottin Piranha Plants). Another fact that I forgot to mention, Potted Piranha Plants have something in common besides being potted, this is the fact that the player can holds them and use them to attack whatever is in front of them.[[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]]) 19:55, April 12, 2025 (EDT)
::::Honesly I wonder what are your thoughts on Fishin' Lakitu re-worked page (with stuff like fishing lakitu from [[Super Mario Odyssey]] being removed, since a lot of your arguments could be also made for Fishin' Lakitus case. [[User:Kirby the Formling|Kirby the Formling]]  ([[User talk:Kirby the Formling|talk]]) 20:22, April 12, 2025 (EDT)
:::::Mmm, I wasn't aware of that, I'm definitely against it, it's a lakitu with a fishing rod that's fishing, so it's a fishing lakitu!. [[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]]) 20:28, April 12, 2025 (EDT)
{{@|Kirby the Formling}} I made a proposal about fishin' lakitu from Mario Odyssey if you are interested. [[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]]) 00:38, April 13, 2025 (EDT)

@MarioComix: The Japanese name for Potted Piranha Plant in 3D World was always different even before it was in English, whereas the Mario Kart item has always had the same name as Piranha Plant in every language. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 08:38, April 13, 2025 (EDT)
:I'm going to use PrincessPeachFan's argument in this one: It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, so it's a duck. And another thing, remember that when you want to call a user, you must put { { @ | the User } } [[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]]) 09:59, April 13, 2025 (EDT)
::It's true that it walks and quacks like a Potted Piranha Plant, but it also walks, quacks, and is named like a normal Piranha Plant. Why favour the former over the latter? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:16, April 13, 2025 (EDT)
:::By behavior, Potted Piranha Plants can be grabbed by the player to be used to attack, the ones in Mario Kart 8 have this behavior, and as far as I know you can't grab a normal Piranha Plant because well, it's a plant. [[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]]) 16:16, April 13, 2025 (EDT)
::::[[Storm Chasers]]. And if Bullet Bills, Boos, and Bloopers can be items without being split, why not Piranha Plants? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:47, April 13, 2025 (EDT)
:::::Bullet Bill=goes fast like Every other Bullet Bill, blooper=spitt ink like other bloopers, boo= disappear like normal boos, also, no one of these enemies have physical differences. [[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]]) 14:01, April 14, 2025 (EDT)
::::::Piranha Plant=chomp things like every Piranha Plant. Honestly it probably has less difference than the other items (you don't see Bloopers shooting ink or Boos stealing items or Mario becoming a Bullet Bill in the platformers). And Piranha Plant also does not have a physical difference (being in a pot doesn't count, there are plenty of times Piranha Plants have been in pots that aren't on this page). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:10, April 14, 2025 (EDT)
:::::::I already wrote it above, but I'll write it again. Give me another example of a Piranha Plant that the player can grab and use as an attack? Furthermore, Potted Piranha Plant is the only item with a physical difference. Blooper, Bullet Bill, and Boo have no physical differences, and their mechanical differences are very far-fetched. {{User:Sorbetti/sig}} 21:58, April 14, 2025 (EDT)
::::::::A Piranha Plant being in a pot is not a physical difference. Normal Piranha Plants are in pots in multiple games that predate 3D World (like Mario Party 3) and in games that came after (like Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and Mario Kart World). The other point I was making is that I think the "mechanical differences" of the Piranha Plant item are also extremely far-fetched. It only functions differently in the sense that it's an item in a different genre of game rather than an enemy, which doesn't make it a separate subject, that's like saying Bowser in Super Mario Bros. and Bowser in Mario Kart are completely different subjects because the former is a boss while the latter is a playable character. I also don't know why you're putting so much stock in the "can be grabbed and used as an attack" thing, it's a completely arbitrary thing to call the most important distinction. The [[Lightning]] item in Smash is the only one that can make other players big, so surely it must be a completely different item to all of its other appearances? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:17, April 15, 2025 (EDT)
:::::::::Obviously not, but this, in addition to sharing the same behavior as the Potted Piranha Plants from Mario 3D World, is the complete argument for why they shouldn't be removed from the page. {{user:Sorbetti/sig}} 22:00, April 15, 2025 (EDT)
::::::::::It just feels silly to me to not cover the thing that looks like, acts like, is named as, and is obviously intended to be a normal Piranha Plant on the Piranha Plant page. The 3D World one is a bit different because official sources actually make a distinction and give it a different name. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 05:55, April 16, 2025 (EDT)

{{@|Kirby the Formling}} Could there be an option for keeping the item information and putting racer information on the Piranha Plant article? {{User:DryBonesBandit/sig}} 15:47, April 13, 2025 (EDT)
:No, but I am considering just deleting the Mario Kart World Piranha Plant part of this propolsal since everybody seems to misunderstand why it is mentioned here in the first place. [[User:Kirby the Formling|Kirby the Formling]] ([[User talk:Kirby the Formling|talk]]) 18:02, April 13, 2025 (EDT)
::That's how it currently is, so that would just be "oppose". {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:47, April 13, 2025 (EDT)
:::I wish there was an option for retaining item information and removing racer info, I'd vote for that. {{User:DryBonesBandit/sig}} 19:28, April 13, 2025 (EDT)
::::Again, the "oppose" option is the option that you are describing. There is no racer information on the article currently. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 21:51, April 13, 2025 (EDT)
:::::Oh, there isn't? I got confused by this proposal then, my bad. {{User:DryBonesBandit/sig}} 14:53, April 14, 2025 (EDT)

Basically, what Sorbetti said. It has a different name and behavior, so it gets split. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 13:00, April 14, 2025 (EDT)
:Can you please show me where does Mario Kart 8 call them POTTED Piranha Plant and not regular Piranha Plant? I am not talking aboud deleting the entire article , just the the Mario Kart section where they are called just Piranha Plants. [[User:Kirby the Formling|Kirby the Formling]] ([[User talk:Kirby the Formling|talk]]) 14:00, April 14, 2025 (EDT)