Editing Talk:Pokey (toy)

Shouldn't this information just be on the standard Pokey page? [[Special:Contributions/69.250.130.180|69.250.130.180]] 15:25, 11 August 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah. I think it should. There may be a disagreement. A proposal show do it. Since 69.250.130.180 is not an user, I want to see some else put down something before I create a proposal.[[File:Redyoshi.png|35pxpx]] [[User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager]] ([[User talk:Yoshi the Space Station Manager|talk]]) [[File:Future space station for sig.jpg|35pxpx]] 15:37, 11 August 2016 (EDT)
::They have the unique ability of turning into blocks, distinguishing themselves from regular Pokeys. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 15:39, 11 August 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, their actions and characteristics are different from regular Pokeys, much like the other "Mini" versions of characters. I don't think it should. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:42, 11 August 2016 (EDT)
::::They only turn into blocks when they encounter Pokey Blocks. These blocks only appear in the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series. I feel like a proposal is necessary. Why? Even if this doesn't get merge with Pokeys, the title should be changed. I will clarify in the proposal. [[File:Redyoshi.png|35pxpx]] [[User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager]] ([[User talk:Yoshi the Space Station Manager|talk]]) [[File:Future space station for sig.jpg|35pxpx]] 16:16, August 2016 (EDT)

==Merge with Pokey or Change the Name==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|6-10-1}}
This pokey looks like and does most things like other [[Pokey]]s. I am proposing to merge this with Pokeys. The ability that it has can be addressed.

However. Some of you may not want to merge it. For those who don't want the first to happen, I propose that this article should be changed to Pokey (toy) since it is in more than just [[Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Minis March Again!]]. It will be just like Mini Mario (toy). These two proposals will run together as one.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager}}<br>
'''Deadline''': September 1, 2016, 23:59 (GMT) (has been extended 1 time)

===Merge===
#{{User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager}} Per merge proposal.
#{{User|Wildgoosespeeder}} Per all.
#{{User|NSY}} Per wiki policies
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|YoshiKong}} &ndash; Per consistency in how we treat live enemies in the ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' series, as opposed to toys (see my comment).
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} This or opposing.

===Change to Pokey (toy)===
#{{User|Alex95}} I still don't think a merge is needed, but since it has appeared in more than one game, then yeah, name should be changed. Though I think it should be under "Pokey (Toy)" or "Pokey (Mario vs. Donkey Kong series)".
#{{User|Time Turner}} If we're going to do anything, I would much rather do this than merge an enemy with clear differences.
#{{User|Tails777}} The Mario vs. Donkey Kong series has (almost) always centered around toy versions of natural enemies. While these Pokies don't have the word "Mini" in front of it, like most other toy enemies, that doesn't mean that they are the same as their organic counterparts. So if we end up merging this, we'd have to do the same to every other Toy enemy in the series. So I'll go with a name change as oppose to a complete merge.
#{{User|Quizmelon}} Per Tails777.
#{{User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager}} Per change proposer
#{{User|Fawful's Minion}} This guy shouldn't be merged. It should get the same treatment as [[Mini Shy Guy]], [[Mini Snifit]], [[Mini Bob-omb]], and [[Bomb Fish]]. And this article should be renamed to Mini Pokey.
#{{User|BabyLuigi64}} The Pokeys seen in the ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' games are toy enemies; They have a wind-up key (this is true for ''Minis March Again!'' as well as its other appearances). As stated above, it has appeared in other games since ''Minis March Again!'', so the article should have its name changed.
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} I don't think they're the same as their organic counterparts. As other commenters have pointed out, each toy version of the enemy receives their own article, while organic enemies have their articles merged together. Considering that Pokeys have looked like toys in games, I feel this solution is the best one.
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} Ninlevendo brought up a good point that these enemies have toy versions, at least in ''Tipping Stars''. It appears to me that this problem requires two solutions. This is because the Pokey in ''Minis March Again!'' do resemble their original versions while the Pokey in ''Tipping Stars'' have more toy-like qualities. I'm not opposed to a partial merge of Pokeys from ''Minis March Again!'' to the parent article while the Pokeys in ''Tipping Stars'' receive the name change. Priority is on renaming rather than merging, though.
#{{User|AfternoonLight}} Change it! Per all!

===Oppose===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} This or merging.

===Comments===
The Wiggler in Super Mario Sunshine has one appearance. [[Mini Mario (toy)]] has only appear in the [[Mario vs. Donkey Kong (series)]] except for an a ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' segment. This pokey also appeared only in the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series. This is why I want to rename it Pokey (toy). [[File:Redyoshi.png|35pxpx]] [[User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager]] ([[User talk:Yoshi the Space Station Manager|talk]]) [[File:Future space station for sig.jpg|35pxpx]]
17:11, 11 August (EDT)

In reference to Alex95, I think the SMS Wiggler is a different case in that it has a different Japanese name. New enemy behaviors, like the MvDK Pokey filling in Pokey blocks, don't justify separate articles. Is it really a toy Pokey though? I'd understand separate articles if that was the case, but I can't see anything like a wind-up key on it in the (low quality) screenshot, and its name doesn't suggest it to be a toy like mini/mecha shy guys. It'd be fair to assume it's a toy, since it does come from the MvDK series, but I don't think assumptions are considered proof here no matter how logical they are. [[Special:Contributions/69.250.130.180|69.250.130.180]] 17:51, 11 August 2016 (EDT)

This article does need a move, especially seeing as it also appears in Mario Vs. Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars, meaning that the title is no longer relevant to one game. In Tipping Stars, Pokeys have wind-up keys just like the toy Mini-Marios, so I suppose that I support the move towards (toy), however I'm not sure if (Mario Vs. Donkey Kong) would be a better move. - {{User:Ninelevendo/sig}} 08:35, 12 August 2016 (EDT)
:Ninelevendo: If you don't want to rename it Pokey (toy) or merge it with Pokeys, you could put your vote in the change it to Pokey (toy) section, but say something about not actually changing it to Pokey (toy). Changing it to Pokey (toy) is just the main option for changing the title. Votes of changing names go perfect with it. If their is not a majority of people who don't want to change it to Pokey (toy) in their votes, then the majority is taken. If there is not majority, the highest suggested name will be taken. If their is a tie in that section, then I will chose the one with the stronger/strongest votes.[[File:Redyoshi.png|35pxpx]] [[User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager]] ([[User talk:Yoshi the Space Station Manager|talk]]) [[File:Future space station for sig.jpg|35pxpx]] 09:18, 12 August 2016 (EDT)

::Ah, good point. It has appeared in more than one game. I guess renaming it would be alright, though I think "toy" should be "Toy". It is an article name after all. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 19:46, 12 August 2016 (EDT)

A side note to those out there. Voting to change it will count as a vote of oppose the merge. I'm saying this so if there is not a majority vote (if merge gets 50%, it will be extended), the merge will fail. I will extend this should their not be a majority vote, but there will be no merge with Pokey.
[[File:Redyoshi.png|35pxpx]] [[User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager]] ([[User talk:Yoshi the Space Station Manager|talk]]) [[File:Future space station for sig.jpg|35pxpx]] 09:18, 12 August 2016 (EDT)

A would like to note that if you put down a word (no matter whether or not it has all low caps, all caps, or mix of both), it will count towards one word. The most votes of the form of the word will be taken. If there is enough oppose/change it, I will add my vote to change it before the timer is up. Depending of what the outcome is, I may or may not keep it to toy. [[File:Redyoshi.png|35pxpx]] [[User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager]] ([[User talk:Yoshi the Space Station Manager|talk]]) [[File:Future space station for sig.jpg|35pxpx]] 22:44, 12 August 2016 (EDT)

For those who read AfternoonLight's support for merge and thinking it sounds familiar, you are not far off. It is almost the same as [[Talk:Harisenbon|the Harisenbon being merge with Spiny Cheep Cheep]]. You may be wondering why I'm supporting the merge. This one actually looks like Pokeys (before the ability even still see that it is a Pokey afterwards). It is far easier to support this because of the looks position. Harisenbon's ability would only make him look like [[Spiny Cheep Cheep]] the closest when almost inflated and I didn't think that was strong enough for a merge. I'm still surprised that it hasn't been merge yet. The final score was 9 (for merge) to 5 (to not merge). [[File:Redyoshi.png|35pxpx]] [[User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager]] ([[User talk:Yoshi the Space Station Manager|talk]]) [[File:Future space station for sig.jpg|35pxpx]] 12:58, 13 August 2016 (EDT)

:Late to the party, but I have questions which I wasn't able to answer myself through looking at YouTube LPs. Throughout the ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' game appearances, is it clear that this is a toy, and not a live Pokey? Live enemies such as a Piranha Plants are [[Piranha Plant#Mario vs. Donkey Kong|rightly merged]] with the main article, there is nothing distinguishing them. On the other hand, [[Snifit (Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Minis March Again!)]] is rightly split because it ''is'' a toy: the enemy must be wound-up before it can move.

:Can someone clarify me the behaviour of these Pokey's? Do they rely on any wind-up, or are we positive that their behaviour and movement shows that they are live enemies?

:{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 07:07, 22 August 2016 (EDT)

:@YoshiKong They basically move along the terrain waiting for a [[Mini Mario (toy)|Mini Mario]] to be killed by them. The player can also lure these enemies into Pokey blocks (I believe that's their name) to make them become a pathway to walk on. I hope this helps. {{User:Fawful's Minion/sig}} 19:56, 22 August 2016 (EDT)

@Fawful's Minion: This isn't about your vote, but part of it. The name you suggested (Mini Pokey) falls under conjectural. There is an official name (which is Pokey in Minis March Again) so there is no need to have this article named Mini Pokey unless it is an official name in a different game. Also, if there ever comes a time where mini pokey is a form (kind of like [[Mini Mario (form)]]) then the article would have to be moved again if it was named Mini Pokey without being conjectural. Please take note of this and see whether or not you want to change your vote on the name. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 01:04, 23 August 2016 (EDT)

@YoshiKong They rely on a wind-up key in the later game, Tipping Stars, as shown by the key on its back, however I'm not sure about how they look in Minis March Again. The article should at least be changed to {{fake link|Pokey (Mario & Donkey Kong series)}} or something along those lines, as the Pokeys in at least one game have been shown to be different, with the Minis March Again part possibly merged. - {{User:Ninelevendo/sig}} 05:05, 23 August 2016 (EDT)
:@Ninelevendo on the subject of ''Minis March Again'': They have a wind up key in this game too. It only appears half of the time approximately. This is why you don't see it in the screenshot. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 09:02, 23 August 2016 (EDT)

Thanks for the clarification, guys. And what about ''Mini Land Mayhem''? Are Pokeys seen with a wind-up key in that appearance?

{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 11:48, 23 August 2016 (EDT)
:I meant ''Mini Land Mayhem'' when talking about the screenshot. Sorry. But I think both have wind-up keys that only appear approximently half of the time. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 14:35, 23 August 2016 (EDT)

I was the user who renamed this article from the conjectural "[[Mini Pokey]]" using the in-game ''Minis March Again!'' help menu and the ''Tipping Stars'' Construction Zone object label. I similarly renamed "[[Mini Spiky Snifit]]" from ''Minis March Again'', leaving alone the plain "[[Mini Snifit]]" from ''March of the Minis'' and ''Mini-Land Mayhem!'' (as I never got around to checking that particular title or the more recent ''Mini Mario & Friends: amiibo Challenge''). On the subject of the ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' series, it would probably be more accurate to respectively have [[Mini Shy Guy]] and [[Mini Fly Guy]] as “Shy Guy (''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'')” and “Fly Guy (''Mario and Donkey Kong: Minis on the Move'')” per [[MarioWiki:Naming|naming policy]], as these appear to be used practically everywhere else outside of the one ''Minis on the Move'' Toy Collection screen instance, which only lists them as “[Color] Mini Shy/Fly Guy” individually; that, and “[[Mini Bob-omb]]” most likely being unofficial, leads me to be suspicious of the [[Mini Ninji|other]] [[Mini Crab|'Mini']] [[Mini Spear Guy|enemies]] ([http://www.hit-japan.com/book10/P1710539.JPG as well as all the English names for all the first game's enemies unlisted in the manual] [http://hit930.sakura.ne.jp/hitjapan/book10/P140808166.JPG for that matter]). As for this proposal, I'm wary of renaming with the toy identifier since it's not necessarily true and could be seen as presumptuous. While I feel merging would be the safer option of the two, I would also be okay with leaving the article alone since that might raise the question of whether the other 'Mini' enemies should be merged as well (although I feel more strongly about Mini Bob-omb than anything else, as in addition to actually sharing the same name it has no distinguishing characteristics from a regular Bob-omb whatsoever). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:36, 25 August 2016 (EDT)
:I like the idea of having the Mini enemy articles all merged into their main article. The issue I see with it though is that we would want to make sure the links to those Mini enemies actually redirected you to the correct section in the main enemy article. For example, if I'm looking up information on Mario vs. DK, and I decide to click on a link to [[Pokey]] on that page or a page related to it, I want to be redirected to the exact section of the Pokey article that will tell me about the versions in Mario vs. DK. Obviously, that's not impossible, but it also would be convenient to just have a link to "Mini Pokey" that would take you right to the information you wanted, and not to the whole Pokey article. On the other hand... the "Mini Pokeys" are hardly different from the normal ones, so part of me says that they don't deserve an article. I'm just spouting off some thoughts. I don't know what I want to vote for yet regarding this specific article. {{User|Fawfulfury65}}
::The problem is that some enemies are intended to be toy versions, but others aren't so much. On one hand, we have Boos, Bloopers, Thwomps, and Pokey, which appear organic, but the Shy Guy and Snifit here appear to be more toy-based, with the Shy Guy even receiving their own name, Mini Shy Guy (but also called mere "Shy Guy" in another game). Finally, this proposal reminds me of the relationship between [[Polterguy]] and [[Boo Guy]]... {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:29, 29 August 2016 (EDT)