Editing Talk:Pokey (projectile)

==Japanese name: Sanbo==
In Japan, is it actually considered as the actual Pokey or a subspecie just like in English? I saw the history, and the Wiki says that it is considered as a subspecies but their name is the same as Pokey. But, it differ physically, as being just one segment with thin black spikes, small round eyes and a tooth produtring from its mouth. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 05:40, 20 October 2018 (EDT)
:Old question, but I figured here is as good place as any to put my observation from the ''Yoshi's Island DS'' Shogakukan guide: in it, they are technically still referred to as 「サンボ」 (''Sanbo'', Pokey) via the names of Sanbo Flower and the Item Balloon variant (エネミー風船／サンボ). However, they're generically described as 「サボテン<span class="explain" title="だん">弾</span>」 (''sabotendan'', cactus shot) in the descriptions for the Needlenose variant of Item Balloon on page 61, Wild Ptooie Piranha on page 89, and Hanging Blow Hard on page 105, and simply 「<span class="explain" title="たま">弾</span>」 (''tama'', bullet) in reference to Priscilla on page 137 and the description for Dool Hard on page 172. As such, it feels like ''Sanbo'' as its name is technically held over by extension from the previous game. Not to mention, in ''Yoshi's New Island'', both projectile Pokeys/Needlenoses and regular Pokeys appear - they do share the same name more clearly in that guide (for example, mentioning them by name in reference to 3-4's Kamek battle on page 133) but only regular ones have an enemy profile, which does not mention the projectile Pokey. It seems Pokey Pom is projectile Pokey's evolution. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:47, May 24, 2021 (EDT)
::So then how does Spiked Fun Guy fit into all of this? I suppose we may see in the future if Pokey Pom is a Bouncing Bullet Bill/Relay Heiho situation. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:50, May 30, 2021 (EDT)

==Move==
{{talk}}
: Should we move this to Pokey (projectile) or something? We've got two recent sources (Yoshi's Island DS Strategy Guides) calling it Pokey, which is also its Japanese name. 09:04, December 7, 2022 (EST) [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 21:41, December 7, 2022 (EST)
::Would probably be best to or now, though at this point I'd prefer to [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick/Projects/Sanbo#Yoshi franchise|merge it and Spiked Fun Guy to Pokey outright]] considering evidence they are intended as the same thing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:05, December 7, 2022 (EST)
:: Fair enough, I was just going for the whole recent names thing. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 21:41, December 7, 2022 (EST)

== Merge to Pokey and/or merge Spiked Fun Guy (or potted variant) ==
{{TPP}}
Since there was a discussion about it on LinkTheLefty's talk page, i'd like to open this proposal. <s>Bubble Dayzee needs to be revisited again.</s>
<br>'''Proposer:'''{{User|FanOfYoshi}}<br>'''Deadline:''' December 26 2022 23:59 GMT.
===Merge Needlenose to Pokey===
===Merge potted Spiked Fun Guy to Spiked Fun Guy===
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Same Japanese names and pretty much just a different state of that enemy.<br>As for the other subjects concerned by this proposal, in short: different behaviours, different designs; different enemies. Would have agreed on merging "Needlenose" Pokey with the regular Pokey if it weren't for the fact that they appear in ''New Island'' simultaneously, still displaying distinct behaviours. As for "Spiked Fun Guy" Pokeys, if there's any evidence that they were just a one-off redesign of regular Pokeys (other than the language-of-origin name, which was handily used as an umbrella term for cactus-themed enemies, same with Needlenoses), and that future appearances in the series (viz. ''New Island'') simply used the modern design, I'd gladly agree on merging the former's page into the latter's.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Third choice. This is a bit too minimalist for me, but they are about as different as Short Fuses and Seedy Sallies are from Grinder, and the "''Kanpeki Guide''" sources tend to be unofficial, so I'd go for this if anything.

===Merge Spiked Fun Guy and Needlenose, leave potted Fun Guy split===
===Merge all, but leave split from Pokey===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} First choice. In addition to my thoughts on the above, Needlenoses and Spiked Fun Guys share the same name in the ''Super Mario Advance 3'' Shogakukgan guide, with its [[media:Advance 3 Shogakukan P16.png|profile]] even specifying that it "sometimes hangs from a balloon or rides in a pot" - making them one and the same as these are otherwise mutually exclusive. In fact, in the English ''Super Mario Advance 3'' Player's Guide, "Needlenose" is a catch-all term for enemy projectiles as it also at least refers to Spiny Eggs, and ''Yoshi's Island DS'' guides refer to them as simply Pokeys, so they should really be combined together as "Pokey" with a unique identifier. Incidentally, I think that's what happened with the heading version of Pokey - if you look at the [[media:Super Mario Yossy Island Shogakukan P5.jpg|original]] with its fuzzy sprite captures, one can misconstrue with the body and head together in the image that it's supposed to be the game's version of Pokey, hence why the variant got the name. The reason I think it would be more optimal to not include the main Pokey is because it eventually appeared together with the projectile in ''Yoshi's New Island'', with no mention of the projectile in its [[media:Yoshi New Island Shogakukan P20.jpg|profile]] (despite it being menioned elsewhere in the book), and it just seems to me [[#Japanese name: Sanbo|here]] and [[Special:Diff/3803982#Spiked Fun Guy|here]] that the projectile was nearly renamed to differentiate from the main Pokey before it got replaced with Pokey Pom (and I can also add, [[media:Yoshi New Island Shogakukan P25.jpg|here]] under Blow Hard it's generically referred to as a「{{ruby|爆弾|ばくだん}}」(''bakudan'', bomb), almost like parts of the book had different writers).

===Merge all to Pokey===
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Seems most consistent with how we handle things like the Cheep-Cheeps or ''Story''{{'}}s Fly Guys. I have a draft on how it would look [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick/Projects/Sanbo#Yoshi franchise|here]]. TL;DR: [https://youtu.be/7AnoagDv8Qo dewitt]
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Second choice. In addition to my thoughts on the above, it's been suggested that they were originally the "base" cactus in the ''Yoshi's Island'' games. This is an unusual situation where ''Yoshi's Island'' introduces all of these Pokey variants, but there is no sign of the original Pokey in it or its first sequel; meanwhile, it takes on Pokey's Japanese and then English names. So for all intents and purposes, these do seem like they were supposed to overtake the original Pokey for those games.

===Don't do anything===
===Comments===
Um...what the heck happened? Why is this talk page your user page? {{User:Somethingone/sig}} 10:15, December 12, 2022 (EST)
:I fixed it before even seeing your comment. Accidentally used ":" instead of |, that's why. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:16, December 12, 2022 (EST)

I know [[Talk:Spiked Fun Guy|the previous proposal]] had a lot of options too, but..could you be more descriptive on options (e.g. does "merge altogether" mean to merge everything with Pokey, or the above minus the main article?), and possibly narrow it down somewhat? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:50, December 12, 2022 (EST)
:Done. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:55, December 12, 2022 (EST)
::...Which option merges Needlenose, Spiked Fun Guy, and Potted Spiked Fuy Guy together, but still keeps them split from the main Pokey? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:59, December 12, 2022 (EST)
:::It wasn't added yet. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:44, December 12, 2022 (EST)

If Needlenose remains split from Pokey, it should still be moved to "Pokey (projectile)" since that's the more recent name. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:05, December 12, 2022 (EST)
:Agreed. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:55, December 12, 2022 (EST)
:Either way, I think "Needlenose" would work better as a disambiguation than a redirect. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:56, December 12, 2022 (EST)
@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 ==Move==
+{{talk}}
 : Should we move this to Pokey (projectile) or something? We've got two recent sources (Yoshi's Island DS Strategy Guides) calling it Pokey, which is also its Japanese name. 09:04, December 7, 2022 (EST) [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 21:41, December 7, 2022 (EST)
 ::Would probably be best to or now, though at this point I'd prefer to [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick/Projects/Sanbo#Yoshi franchise|merge it and Spiked Fun Guy to Pokey outright]] considering evidence they are intended as the same thing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:05, December 7, 2022 (EST)
@@ Line 10: / Line 11: @@
 == Merge to Pokey and/or merge Spiked Fun Guy (or potted variant) ==
-{{settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{proposal outcome|passed|0-6-0-3-0-1-5-2|Merge Potted Spiked Fun Guy Only}}
 Since there was a discussion about it on LinkTheLefty's talk page, i'd like to open this proposal. <s>Bubble Dayzee needs to be revisited again.</s>
 <br>'''Proposer:'''{{User|FanOfYoshi}}<br>'''Deadline:''' December 26 2022 23:59 GMT.
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 #{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Same Japanese names and pretty much just a different state of that enemy.<br>As for the other subjects concerned by this proposal, in short: different behaviours, different designs; different enemies. Would have agreed on merging "Needlenose" Pokey with the regular Pokey if it weren't for the fact that they appear in ''New Island'' simultaneously, still displaying distinct behaviours. As for "Spiked Fun Guy" Pokeys, if there's any evidence that they were just a one-off redesign of regular Pokeys (other than the language-of-origin name, which was handily used as an umbrella term for cactus-themed enemies, same with Needlenoses), and that future appearances in the series (viz. ''New Island'') simply used the modern design, I'd gladly agree on merging the former's page into the latter's.
 #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Third choice. This is a bit too minimalist for me, but they are about as different as Short Fuses and Seedy Sallies are from Grinder, and the "''Kanpeki Guide''" sources tend to be unofficial, so I'd go for this if anything.
-#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per KCC.
-#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per Koopa con Carne.
-#{{User|Hewer}} I feel like the other options are too speculative, especially given how Needlenoses co-exist with Spiked Fun Guys in SMW2 and normal Pokeys in New Island, but I understand the logic for this merge better per above votes.
-#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
-===Merge Spiked Fun Guy to Pokey===
-===Merge potted and normal fun Guy to Pokey===
-#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Second choice; no matter how I look at it, SFG and its pot are replaced by normal stacked Pokeys in YNI. I feel it was likely a change made in SMW2 for the different gameplay that Arzest went back on.
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Second choice, Per Doc von Schmeltwick. Say what you want about YNI, but at least it does help in situations like this. I'd even argue that the mainline enemies looked off in Yoshi's Island. Additionally, please do note that Sticker Star had [[:File:PMSS Unused Pokey.png|this]], although went unused. It had a similar design to Spiked Fun Guy, even if it's a coincidence. It is possible for it to have been intended to be a Pokey Head, although besides this, i think it's unlikely that the developpers tried to distinguish it from the normal Pokey.
-#{{User|Blinker}} Per Doc von Schmeltwick. I wouldn't merge Needlenose though. Even if it was originally a different-context-different-sprite-same-enemy situation like Flopsy Fish and Piscatory Pete, at least those lost their differences in YNI, while the Pokeys didn't.
 ===Merge Spiked Fun Guy and Needlenose, leave potted Fun Guy split===
 ===Merge all, but leave split from Pokey===
-#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} First choice. In addition to my thoughts on the above, Needlenoses and Spiked Fun Guys share the same name in the ''Super Mario Advance 3'' Shogakukgan guide, with its [[media:Advance 3 Shogakukan P16.png|profile]] even specifying that it "sometimes hangs from a balloon or rides in a pot" - making them one and the same as these are otherwise mutually exclusive. In fact, in the English ''Super Mario Advance 3'' Player's Guide, "Needlenose" is a catch-all term for enemy projectiles as it also at least refers to Spiny Eggs, and ''Yoshi's Island DS'' guides refer to them as simply Pokeys, so they should really be combined together as "Pokey" with a unique identifier. Incidentally, I think that's what happened with the heading version of Pokey - if you look at the [[media:Super Mario Yossy Island Shogakukan P5.jpg|original]] with its fuzzy sprite captures, one can misconstrue with the body and head together in the image that it's supposed to be the game's version of Pokey, hence why the variant got the name. The reason I think it would be more optimal to not include the main Pokey is because it eventually appeared together with the projectile in ''Yoshi's New Island'', with no mention of the projectile in its [[media:Yoshi New Island Shogakukan P20.jpg|profile]] (despite being mentioned elsewhere in the book), and it just seems to me [[#Japanese name: Sanbo|here]] and [[Special:Diff/3803982#Spiked Fun Guy|here]] that the projectile was nearly renamed to differentiate from the main Pokey before it got replaced with Pokey Pom (and I can also add, [[media:Yoshi New Island Shogakukan P25.jpg|here]] under Blow Hard it's generically referred to as a「{{ruby|爆弾|ばくだん}}」(''bakudan'', bomb), almost like parts of the book had different writers).
+#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} First choice. In addition to my thoughts on the above, Needlenoses and Spiked Fun Guys share the same name in the ''Super Mario Advance 3'' Shogakukgan guide, with its [[media:Advance 3 Shogakukan P16.png|profile]] even specifying that it "sometimes hangs from a balloon or rides in a pot" - making them one and the same as these are otherwise mutually exclusive. In fact, in the English ''Super Mario Advance 3'' Player's Guide, "Needlenose" is a catch-all term for enemy projectiles as it also at least refers to Spiny Eggs, and ''Yoshi's Island DS'' guides refer to them as simply Pokeys, so they should really be combined together as "Pokey" with a unique identifier. Incidentally, I think that's what happened with the heading version of Pokey - if you look at the [[media:Super Mario Yossy Island Shogakukan P5.jpg|original]] with its fuzzy sprite captures, one can misconstrue with the body and head together in the image that it's supposed to be the game's version of Pokey, hence why the variant got the name. The reason I think it would be more optimal to not include the main Pokey is because it eventually appeared together with the projectile in ''Yoshi's New Island'', with no mention of the projectile in its [[media:Yoshi New Island Shogakukan P20.jpg|profile]] (despite it being menioned elsewhere in the book), and it just seems to me [[#Japanese name: Sanbo|here]] and [[Special:Diff/3803982#Spiked Fun Guy|here]] that the projectile was nearly renamed to differentiate from the main Pokey before it got replaced with Pokey Pom (and I can also add, [[media:Yoshi New Island Shogakukan P25.jpg|here]] under Blow Hard it's generically referred to as a「{{ruby|爆弾|ばくだん}}」(''bakudan'', bomb), almost like parts of the book had different writers).
 ===Merge all to Pokey===
 #{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Seems most consistent with how we handle things like the Cheep-Cheeps or ''Story''{{'}}s Fly Guys. I have a draft on how it would look [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick/Projects/Sanbo#Yoshi franchise|here]]. TL;DR: [https://youtu.be/7AnoagDv8Qo dewitt]
-#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Second choice. In addition to my thoughts on the above, it's been suggested that they were originally the "base" cactus in the ''Yoshi's Island'' games. This is an unusual situation where ''Yoshi's Island'' introduces all of these Pokey variants, but there is no sign of the original Pokey in it or its first sequel; meanwhile, it takes on Pokey's Japanese and then English names. So for all intents and purposes, these do seem like they were supposed to overtake the original Pokey for those games. Additionally, this option would result in the cleanest infobox organization.
+#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Second choice. In addition to my thoughts on the above, it's been suggested that they were originally the "base" cactus in the ''Yoshi's Island'' games. This is an unusual situation where ''Yoshi's Island'' introduces all of these Pokey variants, but there is no sign of the original Pokey in it or its first sequel; meanwhile, it takes on Pokey's Japanese and then English names. So for all intents and purposes, these do seem like they were supposed to overtake the original Pokey for those games.
-#{{User|Somethingone}} Why not; if "Needlenose" fell out of favor for "Pokey" and the only difference between SFG and PSFG is that one can jump into a pot, and other things like how [[Cactus Jack]] (which looks much like a big Needlenose) was supposed to look more like a normal Pokey head if it appeared in YNI, and everything else said regarding the blended identities these enemies have had, I don't see why they should not be together.
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
-#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Per everyone else in this section.
 ===Don't do anything===
-#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Also voting for this, I'm okay leaving Potted Spiked Fun Guy split since there was at least an effort to separate the behavioral variants in the localization.
-#{{User|Hewer}} Second choice, don't feel too strongly either way about the Potted Spiked Fun Guy split but I'd rather not merge anything else.
 ===Comments===
 Um...what the heck happened? Why is this talk page your user page? {{User:Somethingone/sig}} 10:15, December 12, 2022 (EST)
@@ Line 56: / Line 40: @@
 :Agreed. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:55, December 12, 2022 (EST)
 :Either way, I think "Needlenose" would work better as a disambiguation than a redirect. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:56, December 12, 2022 (EST)
-:If Spiked Fun Guy merges with Needlenose, I think "Pokey (''Yoshi's Island'')" or "Pokey (''Yoshi'' series) would make more sense than "Pokey (projectile)", as Spiked Fun Guy is ''not'' a projectile, as opposed to Needlenose. Plus, all of these are pretty much exclusive to the Yoshi series. {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:34, December 14, 2022 (EST)
-::I forgot to add an option to only merge Spiked Fun Guy with Pokey, as well as merging both potted and normal to Pokey, but i think that'd be overdoing it at that point. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 08:32, December 16, 2022 (EST)
-:::I take it back, Spiked Fun Guys do not appear in Yoshi's New Island. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:59, December 16, 2022 (EST)
-== Real name ==
-Shouldn't we rename them to needle or needlenoses [[Special:Contributions/31.104.129.126|31.104.129.126]] 16:22, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:"Pokey" is the most recently used name, as mentioned [[#Move|here]]. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 16:27, January 1, 2025 (EST)