Editing Talk:Pokémon Trainer

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== Playable? ==

Should this guy really be counted as a playable character? Considering that his Pokemon (which the player controls) do all the fighting, while he just stands in the background and watches. Yes, I know that you'll select him to "play" as him, but you'll never control him. -- [[User: Booster|Booster]]
:That's indeed hard to tell. Well, you control him when using the [[Pokémon Change]] move, at last. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 10:44, 13 August 2007 (EDT)
::Ah, I see. I guess he is playble... barely. -- [[User: Booster|Booster]]
:::Lol srsly. But it's only one move. {{User:Super-Yoshi/sig}}

== Red ==
{{scroll box|content=
Since this dude is the protagonist to Pokemon Red, Blue, and Yellow, most likely Yellow, because of the fact he has all three of the Kanto starter Pokemon, shouldn't we call him Red. Red is the default name that Nintendo calls this character, so...?
{{unsigned|Mariofan132}}

The site calls him Pokemon Trainer. {{User:Max2/sig}}

Yeah, but his real name is Red.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:The creators obviously chose to have a more generic name, the type of a Pokémon Trainer, modelled after on of them, who happens to be Red. You can guess that he will look different if he has alternate costumes, and this is the official name. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 11:18, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

Okay, but could we at least have a redirection?
{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}

no. the site calls him Pokemon Trainer. {{User:Max2/sig}}

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't play the Pokemon games, but wasn't Red the final boss fight in R/B/Y? The player you control is whoever you name it, right? {{User:Phoenix Rider/sig}}

#no
#yes. you could name the player.

My point is, though, he's never called Red on the site, meaning it's unnoficial. {{User:Max2/sig}}

It's NOT RED! It's a Pokemon Trainer! That's the name on THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE, so that's the OFFICIAL NAME! {{User:Max2/sig}}
:We'll not have a redirect either. Because 1) noone is likely to search for the Pokémon Trainer and type in the name Red instead and 2) we already have a redirect on [[Red]]. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 11:38, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

::Not a redirect but a disambiguation. Anyway, the site and most likely the game calls him Pokemon Trainer so lets leave it like this. http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif '''[[User:Paper Jorge|Paper Jorge! I give paper cuts so stand back!]]''' http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif

That's what I meant! Thanks PJ! To Max2, when Nintendo refers to the star of Pokemon R/B/Y/FR/LG, they refer to him as red. The article on Wiki- and Bulba- pedia is Red. Trust me. To Cobold, some Pokemon fan might be on here and found out that Red was in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, he types in "Red", and turns up at the disambugation page and finds Pokemon Trainer. And to PhoenixWrighter, same thing as Max2. Thank you.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}

The official website calls him Pokemon Trainer! Who cares if Wikipedia calls him Red? The official website is THE BEST SOURCE. {{User:Max2/sig}}
:When he's ever called Red in a trophy description or something, we can go for it. If not, this would be information from other series which is not represented by the crossover, and that's banned by the [[MarioWiki:Importance Policy|Importance Policy]]. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 16:47, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

Max2, you just sounded like some Smash Bros. zombie right there. THE WEB SITE IS THE BEST SOURCE... I know the website is for Super Smash Bros. and this character from Super Smash Bros. is called Pokemon Trainer. I just wanted this page on the Red disambugation. I was actually agreeing with a fellow Wikier and then poof! You guys are fun-suckers.

PS: Wikipedia calls him Red because '''NINTENDO''' calls him Red.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}

The creator of the game beats the company in total. so there. He's not red. no one would look for him as red because he is not red. He's a pokemon trainer. {{User:Max2/sig}}

Okay, I visit Bulbapedia. They have this thing called Bulbanews. It really says ''Red put in Super Smash Bros. Brawl''. They're now thinking, "Cool! I want to check this out on Red's page here." They go there, finding only about a small paragraph saying Red is in ''Brawl''. They think "Dang it! Well, only two other places know about Super Smash Bros., SmashWiki or Mario Wiki. The majority of SmashWiki only talks about famous Super Smash Bros. characters that no one's ever heard of. This Wiki, though, has the information. They type in Red. A bunch of options pop up, Red Ninjakoopa, Axem Red, ect. But at the bottom of that page is "Also known as the Pokémon Trainer around Super Smash Bros. Brawl..." They're satisfied. If Pokémon Trainer isn't on that disambugation page. Pokémon fans that visit here will think this Wiki is slow on news.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}

Look, I only added it so you'll be quiet. so do. please. {{User:Max2/sig}}

Also, you can't judge it's red just because he has all 3 starters. And, it ''IS'' mistaken, FYI. He's not Red at all, but people (like yourself) mistake him for Red. {{User:Max2/sig}}

I want to start by saying this is a stupid argument, and finish by telling Phoenix that Red was the ''protagonist'' in R/B/Y. He was the ''final boss'' in G/C/S.{{User:Sadaharu/sig}}

Considering so many bloody Pokemon trainers look like each other, I would say it's not Red. And this is a ''generic'' Pokemon Trainer. Not Red. And, for one thing, anybody can edit Wikipedia, but you have to get an account to edit MarioWiki. [[User:MamaWaluigi|MamaWaluigi]] 13:36, 15 August 2007 (EDT)

Max calm down. MamaWaluigi you are right. Just cuss hem ya look like Red, doesn't mean he necessary is Red. So I end this arguement by saying: His official name as of now is "Pokemon Trainer". http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif '''[[User:Paper Jorge|Paper Jorge! I give paper cuts so stand back!]]''' http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif

He is BASED on Red(player charcter)'s look from FireRed/Leaf Green. Is he actully Red, doesn't really matter. Ktnxby. [[User:Lego3400|Lego3400]] 21:11, 15 August 2007 (EDT)

Here are the facts. You cannot argue with the facts. Red and blue are baced off of Ash and Gary. They were called that because tecnically you could name them whatever you wanted to and as a refrence to the first games. He is baced off the guy from FR and LG. He is called Pokemon trainer because you could name him whatever you wanted to in the games, so he has no set name.

He should not be called Red(not a fact). [[User:Peachycakes 3.14|Peachycakes 3.14]]

Red and Blue are based off Ash and Gary? Its the other way around. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]

Okay, so no one gets on my case again, I would like to say that I agree that the word red should not be in the article, but Pokemon Trainer should be mentioned on the Red disambugation page. I was also saying that it's the Red from Pokemon Yellow because he has all three starters. Stop arguing. All we need is him on the disambugation page now. Stop. Arguing. Even though it is pretty amusing.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:I've said it often enough already and I don't like repeating myself. The name Red comes from a source outside the [[MarioWiki:Marioverse|Marioverse]], and is thus, as said not by me, but by the [[MarioWiki:Importance Policy|Importance Policy]], not acceptable. Just leave the disambiguation page. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 15:48, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

Red is what one of the main characters is called in the manga. In the game it can be anything, so that is probally why it is just called pokemon trainer. [[User: Jaffffey| Jaffffey]]
:Yes, does it matter wether his name is Red? The official site calls him Pokemon Trainer, isn't that good enough for you guys? {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} I remember that Pokemon Manga, the best Comic series I've ever read :)

NO!!! Nintendo calls the character in the game ''Red''. You can call him whatever you want. The Pokemon Manga character was Red because the character in the game was Red. Any source calls him RED. Now stop arguing. Ash was even based off of Red. All I wanted was a mention on the disambugation page...Though this is pretty amusing to watch everyone argue when I know the true answer...

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:Braging about having the "true answer" won't help you, it 's just make you look arrogant. The official website call him "Pokemon trainer", not Red. And as MamaWaluigi pointed out, all Pokemon Trainer look like each other, I think it's obvious Sakurai intended him to be a generic Pokemon Trainer. 
[[User:Gofer|Gofer]]
::"Any source calls him RED"?? Definitely not, because the [http://www.smashbros.com/ Smash Bros. Dojo''!!''] calls him Pokémon Trainer, and '''not''' Red. End of story. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 11:12, 26 August 2007 (EDT)
:Sources call him Red, but no Smash Bros. sources, though it may be mentioned in his trophy. Can't we just put Red as a redirect? {{User:Plumber/Pignature}} 11:40, 26 August 2007 (EDT)
::[[Red]] is a disambiguation page already, and I don't think it's okay to mention it there. What would you write? "The name he's called outside the Marioverse"? - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 14:31, 26 August 2007 (EDT)
:Well, alternate names could be at least mentioned. E.g.: The Pokemon Trainer is sometimes called Red. {{User:Plumber/Pignature}}
::Not in Mario games... This is a very difficult question, if you still feel like adding a note to the disambiguation page, you could [[MarioWiki:Proposals|propose it]]. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 14:59, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

YOU GUYS ARE ANNOYING!!! Stop saying the "official site" calls him Red. Is that the official Pokemon website, no. Cobold, read the paragraph I wrote to Max2. I'm saying he's known as Red outside of the "Super Smash Bros." community on the disambugation page.

This unsigned comment was soon again signed by {{User:Mariofan132/sig}} my bad.
:You are apparently not understanding that something outside the Marioverse, and, regarding this, outside the Super Smash Bros. games '''is not to be kept on this wiki'''. Thank you. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 17:04, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

I bet you didn't read the paragraph, did you?

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}

Cobold did. You want us to add information from the Pokemon Series. this Wiki is about the Mario series. {{User:Max2/sig}}

No, I already did add a sentence on a disambugation page to not confuse Pokemon/Mario fans. And sorry, I'm kind of getting wacko in the head. All this space on a talk page for one sentence. It's pretty funny if you think about it.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:Mariofan, I don't mean to be rude, but, SHUT UP!!! What do you want? Something that says "Pokemon Trainer is called Red in most Pokemon Games"? THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!! We are a '''MARIO'''Wiki. That kind of information belongs on Bulbapedia, and if the official SSBB site calls him Pokemon Trainer, we call him Pokemon Trainer. Red is his '''Pokemon Series''' name, Pokemon Trainer is his '''Super Smash Bros. Series''' and '''Mario Series''' name. LISTEN TO US, NOT YOUR CRAZY OPINIONS!!! {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Sorry, but you have REALLY gotten on my nerves on this topic.

Listen, I know its Poke-information. That's why I only have a mention on the Red disambugation page. Gosh. Everyone please be quite. Everyone has this thing all wrong. I don't even want the word red on Pokemon Trainer's page. Please, everyone, stop badgering me.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:Fine, fine, whatever, we'll stop. My only REAL problem was your attitude, and arrogance. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

Okay, here goes. Sorry for calling you all annoying and stuff. That was mean, but I have a real big thing on in-game info. For some reason, I just write bios on minor Mario characters in my spare time. If I were to do that on the Pokemon Trainer for Generation I, I would refer to him as Red. I'm just a strong believer that his real name is Red. I'm really sorry for being a big jerk. I guess I'm just not used to people arguing with me about video game theories. Sorry. *slaps self* *and again* I'd just like it if people would stop saying I have a big attitude and stuff, because I don't, really. I'm sorry about all this. All I want is a mention on the disambugation page. That is all.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}, who actually slapped himself. Twice.
:I don't think a mention on the Disambiguation page is really neccesary, as his name isn't really Red. Also, apology accepted :P {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

It's Nintendo's default name for him...

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:But Pokemon Trainer is Super Smash Bros.'s default name for him, and we only cover the info from the Mario Bros. Series, or Super Smash Bros. Series. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

Yeah, that's why it's on the '''disambiguation''' page.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:But, the '''disambiguation''' page is on '''Mario'''Wiki. If we were a '''Pokemon'''Wiki, we could note that, but we can't here, because the '''disambiguation''' page is on a '''Mario'''Wiki, and we only cover '''Mario''' related content. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

Yeah, the Pokemon wiki's article is actually Red. Look it up for yourself. Anyway, disambugation pages are for people that typed one thing that could mean another. Red could mean the Red Ninjakoopa, Axem Red, Mario, or the Pokemon Trainer outside of the Super Smash Bros. series.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:Why would people even type Red if they wanted Pokemon Trainer? They would do that on the Pokemon Wiki, because that is his name their, but do they expect us to call him Red on the '''Mario'''Wiki? {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
::Dude just give up...{{User:Xzelion/Signature}}
:::Who? Me or him? {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
::::...Him..{{User:Xzelion/Signature}}

People coming from the Pokemon Wiki would type in Red here because as far as they know, they would think the Smash Bros. character was named Red.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:As Xzelion said, Dude just give up. OK, let's have a vote. YOU HAPPY NOW!!!!! {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

<big> Don't put Red on the Disambiguation page </big>
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Not Mario-Related.
#{{User:Xzelion/Signature}} Per Reasons above
#{{User:Max2/sig}} Can I sign 8 more times?
#[[User:Gofer|Gofer]] Per DP and Cobold
#{{User:Cobold/sig}} Per reasons given above.
#[[User:Dannyboy|Dannyboy]] Per reasons given above xD
#{{User:Uniju :D/sig}} He hardly even needs an article...

<big> Add it </big>
# Helps Pokemon fans that do not know that Pokemon Trainer is his name around here. {{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
#Per MarioFan. {{User:Plumber/Pignature}}

<big> Comments </big>

"Helps Pokemon fans that do not know that Pokemon Trainer is his name around here. "    I'm pretty sure that the Pokéfan would msot likely search by using the PT name, it's a thing called "logic".   
[[User:Gofer|Gofer]]

As far as they know, the character's name is Red. Pokemon Trainer to them could mean Red, Leaf, Brock, Misty, Gold, Kris, Bugcatcher, Beauty, Ace Trainer, Rocket Grunt, Blackbelt, May, Brendan, Wes, Michael, Lucas, Dawn, Pearl, Blue, Silver, Norman, etc. The news article says "Red". The thing called "logic" is typing in "Red" when all you know about this character is that his name is "Red".
{{unsigned|Mariofan132}}
:I can imagine a similar debate going on on a Pokémon Wiki about whether putting him at the "Red" page or the "Pokémon Trainer" page, and I've actually seen a discussion like that on Wikipedia. I don't think even a Pokémon fan will think that someone called Red is in Brawl, but in fact a generic Pokémon Trainer... - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 17:21, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

I'm asking for a disambugation, you know... {{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:Please, understand. 1) Why would a Pokemon Fan come here for the Pokemon Information, when they can go to the Pokemon Wiki for that stuff... 2) A REAL Pokemon Fan would know that his name is Pokemon Trainer, and not Red. 3) Do they expect us to have an article on him? We do, but, would they know that? And 4) IT IS NOT MARIO RELATED!!!!! OK, how about this, a disambiguation page of Samus: "Samus can mean: [[Samus Aran]], [[Zero Suit Samus]], or Dark Samus". Point is, it is NOT Mario-related. Sheesh, why can't you just give it up? {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

1)The information about the Super Smash Bros. character on Red's page is about two sentences. SmashWiki only talks about famous Smash Bros. players. But we have Mario spin-off information. 2)Not every pokemon fan is going to go to the Smash Dojo first thing. If they saw the headline, it doesn't say his name is Pokemon Trainer. It says his name is Red. 3)Yes, since they would know that we have Smash Bros. information. They just think the character's name is Red. Then they find out that his name is Pokemon Trainer, problem solved. But they find this out by finding Pokemon Trainer on the disambugation page things related to the term red. Mostly people with Red in their name, but in this case, someone based off of Red. 4)We don't have an article even related to Dark Samus. Pokemon Trainer is a carbon copy of Red from FireRed and LeafGreen. He's just called that so people won't get confused if they play Smash Bros. but not Pokemon. 5)What if you thought something had to be done to this Wiki, but everyone said it wasn't important enough, what if you were very strong about your knowing of this needing to be done, and at once, you even started acting like a jerk. Then everyone calls you an arrogant jerk. Then you feel bad inside, but you won't give up until this Wiki has the information you want on it. They pressure and pressure you into giving up, but you don't. They make you feel like a stupid idiot, they even doubt you even play the series in which you get the information from, but you feel strong about this decision you make. How would you feel? Would you just stick to the crowd, just so they'd stop heckling you, or would to stand up for what you think is right, and not give up your beliefs. Your decision.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:<s>Now, I don't usually swear, but, FOR GOD'S SAKES, JUST GIVE IT UP!! Look at the Polls, 5 voted to screw it, only you voted to keep it. WHY CAN'T YOU JUST ACCEPT THAT WE DON'T NEED THAT INFORMATION!!!! Want to put that info somewhere? TAKE IT TO THE POKEMON WIKI!!!! STOP BEING SUCH A STUBBORN JERK!!! {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Take a look what you made me do. >_<</s>
::Honestly, whether you feel righteous or not doesn't matter. Here's the facts: Pokemon Trainer has only appeared ONCE in the Marioverse, upcoming in Brawl. He is called Pokemon Trainer in Brawl. He looks like the character Red from the Pokemon series, but we don't get our info from that series. We are drawing our facts from the SSB series in this case, NOT the Pokemon series. On THIS wiki, we call him Pokemon Trainer. On ANOTHER wiki, depending on what they cover, he may be called Red. Final line: IT'S NOT RED. {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 23:07, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
:::My apoligies for bursting out like that, but you have really been going on, and on, and on, AND ON about this, Mariofan. Please read Wayoshi's comment above, and I'm sure you will see why we cannot do such an action on this Wiki. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

I would prefer to have Pokemon Trainer mentioned on the Red disambugation page. But I see that all that's come out of this is yelling. I'm just going to '''not''' give up. Inside. I know that I would prefer it my way, but I know, unless some miracle happens and I get ten votes overnight, it's not going to happen. I know* that Pokemon Trainer should be on the disambugation, but I'm just going to let you guys have your way. Pokemon DP is going to start swearing like a sailor, ironic, being a Pokemon fan, I guess. So, yeah.

*know - MIB def - ''knowing'' the world is flat, until Columbus saild, ''knowing'' we were alone until fifteen minutes ago, I just ''know'' for me that Pokemon Trainer should be on the disambugation.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:Why should it be on the Disambiguation page, why should something that is ONLY said in the Pokemon series be put on the MARIOWiki, when the only time he has EVER appeared in a MARIO game is in a game where he was called POKEMON TRAINER!!! RED is his name OUTSIDE the Mario series. POKEMON TRAINER is his name IN the Mario series. We have only seen him being called Pokemon Trainer in the Mario series, which is in SSBB. If he was called Red in any other Mario game, we would put it on the disambiguation page, but he isn't, so JUST GIVE UP!!! {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

Didn't I already?

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
:You giving up is hardly the point. I am trying to make the point that we have all been trying to make. Do you understand now? {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Believe me, if he was called Red in ANY other Marioverse game, I would add him to that page without any hesitation, but, he is not called Red in ANY Marioverse game, so it shouldn't be added.

Okay, it's just that at the end of everyone's sentence I've seen the words "give" and "up", or "happy" and "now". I just thought disambugation was okay because it was an extremely small way of saying. Wrong way, here's the right way.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}
}}

Okay, I don't really care anymore. But I just remembered that when you fight him in Pokemon Crystal his name is Red... Remember, I don't care. Don't get mad.

{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}

== A point that nobody, on either side, seems to have noticed ==

...if [[Captain Falcon]]'s full name (Douglas Jay Falcon) can be mentioned on his page, even though that info comes from the F-Zero series and not Smash Bros., then there's no reason why Red CAN'T be mentioned on this page--at least to say that the Smash Bros. character is based on Red, and THEN explain that Red is the name of the playable male trainer in the Kanto-based Pokémon games.  They're the EXACT SAME THING--a name for the character from an outside source which is still the real name of the character. And, looky here--if you type in "Captain Douglas Jay Falcon" into the box, you even get redirected to Captain Falcon's page! So much for that "no redirect/disambiguation for out-of-SmashBros.-info" thing, huh?
If the "no outside-Marioverse ''(as if Smash Bros. was really in it to begin with...)'' info" angry mob won't accept that Red is his name, then you're gonna have to take off Captain Falcon's full name, too. [[User:Wario'sFalconPAUNCH!|Wario&#39;sFalconPAUNCH!]] 01:18, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
:BUT, his name is still Captain Douglas Jay Falcon in Super Smash Bros., but, it was simply shortened to Captain Falcon, so the name could fit. However, Pokémon Trainer is called Pokémon Trainer in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, NOT Red. His name is NOT a shortened version of Red. Captain Falcon is just a shortened version of his real name, which is still used in Super Smash Bros., wheras, Red is NEVER used in Super Smash Bros. Understand? {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
Captain Falcon has always been named that, Whereas Pokemon trainer has no real name. You could name him whatever you want to in the games, and he's only called red when they needed a name for him and desided to call him red (after the first game in the series). {{User:Peachycakes 3.14/sig}} 06:56, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
:Thank you, Peachycakes, for helping me out on that (That was not sarcasm). {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
It could be a title...
{{User:Mariofan132/sig}}

== Finally something not about his name ==

Does it say on the website if he stays in one place in the background? Or if he moves? {{User:Max2/sig}} I wonder about the scrolling stages...
:It says he stands in the background, he still moves around in the case of scrolling stages. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

Oh. OK. {{User:Max2/sig}} Thx.