Editing Talk:Pixels

Why does this article exist? Can't we just transfer most of the information to [[List of Mario references in film#Pixels]]? {{User:DarkNight/sig}} 17:59, October 1, 2020 (EDT)
:See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Does the movie Pixels warrant guest-appearance coverage?|here]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:05, October 1, 2020 (EDT)
::Ok. {{User:DarkNight/sig}} 18:11, October 1, 2020 (EDT)

== Re-merge to List of references in film ==

{{TPP}}
I previously supported [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Does the movie Pixels warrant guest-appearance coverage?|the proposal splitting this page out in the first place]], but I now realize that it's no longer viable as a standalone article, especially in regards to [[Talk:The Wizard#Merge this article to "List of references in film"|the recent re-merge of ''The Wizard'']]. This article has the same problems as ''The Wizard'' article did anyway. Besides the article's infobox and intro paragraph having little to do with the ''Super Mario'' franchise as a whole, what is indeed relevant to ''Super Mario'' as a whole can easily be summarized into one or two paragraphs in the [[List of references in film]] article. Besides, just like ''The Wizard'' or ''Wreck-it Ralph'', this film is more intent on referencing all manner of classic arcade games than the ''Super Mario'' franchise in general. In light of this, I call for a re-merge.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Archivist Toadette}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' May 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Per.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per proposal--if we merged The Wizard, this seems only fair.
#{{user|Super Mario RPG}} Movie's not good anyway.
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} This wiki is an Adam Sandler-free zone, no exceptions. Per proposal.
#{{user|Pizza Master}} If you keep it unsplit, then you have to include every movie with Mario characters in it on here even if their appearances are just as cameos.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Hewer}} Per the original proposal that split it. Unlike The Wizard where the characters just play Mario games, Donkey Kong is an actual character in the film, there's a whole scene themed around the Donkey Kong arcade game that's the climax of the film, the game also seems to have some plot relevance, DK even features prominently in [[:File:Pixels donkey kong poster.jpg|a poster]]. This is honestly probably more substantial than several of our game guest appearances - for instance, if DK being the final boss isn't enough for Pixels to be a guest appearance, why is it enough for [[Punch-Out!! (Wii)|Punch-Out!!]]? And I don't see what the film referencing multiple arcade games has to do with anything, it doesn't make the Donkey Kong stuff that is there any less noteworthy. Smash Bros. having a lot of franchises isn't stopping it from getting coverage (articles on the games, at the very least, are certainly not being lost any time soon).
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Per Hewer.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} a main character of the mario franchise appearing as a critical plot point and final baddie of a movie? sounds like more than your run-of-the-mill guest appearance
#{{User|ExoRosalina}} Per all? Because many of them uses Mario franchise but includes a Donkey Kong game, as well as other arcade games.
#{{User|TheUndescribableGhost}} I was already upset that ''The Wizard'' was regulated to being mentioned on a list and had plans to visit this issue with even using this article as a reason to why that was such a mistake, but at least there, you could make an argument that no physical appearance of a character appears. With this movie, DK is an obstacle. Also, this proposal does not attempt to bring up the coverage policy nor even attempt to compare it other guest appearances we have allowed on this wiki. I'm not sure what is the barest minimum we ever had for a guest game is; it's subjective, but this isn't something that is a throw-away scene. '''Granted, I have no seen the movie,''' but people bring up that action scene and it's a lot more than just a few seconds if that's true. If DK made a blink or you miss it cameo, or only appeared for like ten seconds, I'd say yeah, put this in references. It's the reason to why I do stand on my point on ''Wreck-It Ralph'' being in the references section as well, since Bowser has no plot relevance.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} DK has plot relevance in the movie, similarly to how he's an opponent in Wii Punch-Out
#{{User|Arend}} Both DK and the ''Donkey Kong'' arcade game are relevant to the plot of this film (although one could argue the latter doesn't necessarily matter since ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' is relevant to the plot of ''The Wizard'', and that got merged to the list; still though, DK the character plays a significant role regardless).

===Comments===
@Hewer: Bowser is also an actual character in ''Wreck-It Ralph'' as part of the Bad Guys Club, but we still merge it to the List. We do get that Bowser is maybe less overall relevant (since he's moreso part of an ensemble), he still does get ''some'' emphasis. He's given unique sprites in the brief scene where everyone's leaving the Bad Guys Club in the Pac-Man ghost pen, and he's featured prominently in the trailers, where his reaction shot when Ralph says he doesn't want to be a bad guy is given emphasis. While it's no Pixels, Bowser's presence isn't anything to scoff at, either. <small>also the trailer unironically used Funky Town and we'd like to let the record show that jumpscared us</small> {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 11:21, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
:Maybe Wreck-It Ralph needs splitting, maybe it doesn't, that's a separate discussion that doesn't change that Pixels very much has enough Mario relevance to pass as a guest appearance by our policy. If our standards for film guest appearances are anything like our standards for game guest appearances (one enemy in Punch-Out being Donkey Kong, StreetPass Mii Plaza and Nintendo Badge Arcade having a lot of Mario-themed cosmetics, soon-to-be guest appearance Rhythm Heaven Fever having one or two Mario characters in a single mode, [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Guest appearances|etc.]]), I feel like there's no way that Pixels doesn't qualify. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:42, April 29, 2024 (EDT)

@Pizza Master: No? The reason we have this page is because DK's appearance in the movie is ''more'' than just a cameo, as I described in my vote. Cases like this are the whole reason we even have the "guest appearance" designator to accommodate for them. Again I bring up game guest appearances: your argument is like saying that the [[Punch-Out!! (Wii)]] page somehow justifies splitting [[List of references in Nintendo video games#Nintendogs + Cats (3DS)|Nintendogs + Cats]]. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 03:11, May 1, 2024 (EDT)

@Opposition: Admittedly, part of why we (as in Tori and I, we do not speak for the other supporters and make zero claim to do so) personally dislike having this split is that, as far as we could tell anyways, this is one of ''three'' reference articles that're split into its own thing without already meeting our guidelines for coverage by virtue of being a video game with a more substantial Mario presence. The only other ones being [[Guinness World Records]] and [[Donkey Kong (monster truck)|a monster truck]], of all things. The way we see it, either we should be contracting these not-Video Game pop culture appearances to the list articles, or we should be splitting a few more of these because of how they'd fit our coverage policies otherwise. While we could personally go either way on that so long as our treatment is actually more consistent across the board, given we've currently been gradually consolidating those as-is, we're not a fan of keeping the Pixels article split in the meantime. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 17:20, May 1, 2024 (EDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 Why does this article exist? Can't we just transfer most of the information to [[List of Mario references in film#Pixels]]? {{User:DarkNight/sig}} 17:59, October 1, 2020 (EDT)
-:See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Does the movie Pixels warrant guest-appearance coverage?|here]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:05, October 1, 2020 (EDT)
+:See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Does the movie Pixels warrant guest-appearance coverage?|here]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:05, October 1, 2020 (EDT)
 ::Ok. {{User:DarkNight/sig}} 18:11, October 1, 2020 (EDT)
 == Re-merge to List of references in film ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|failed|5-12|Do not merge}}
+{{TPP}}
-I previously supported [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Does the movie Pixels warrant guest-appearance coverage?|the proposal splitting this page out in the first place]], but I now realize that it's no longer viable as a standalone article, especially in regards to [[Talk:The Wizard#Merge this article to "List of references in film"|the recent re-merge of ''The Wizard'']]. This article has the same problems as ''The Wizard'' article did anyway. Besides the article's infobox and intro paragraph having little to do with the ''Super Mario'' franchise as a whole, what is indeed relevant to ''Super Mario'' as a whole can easily be summarized into one or two paragraphs in the [[List of references in film]] article. Besides, just like ''The Wizard'' or ''Wreck-it Ralph'', this film is more intent on referencing all manner of classic arcade games than the ''Super Mario'' franchise in general. In light of this, I call for a re-merge.
+I previously supported [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Does the movie Pixels warrant guest-appearance coverage?|the proposal splitting this page out in the first place]], but I now realize that it's no longer viable as a standalone article, especially in regards to [[Talk:The Wizard#Merge this article to "List of references in film"|the recent re-merge of ''The Wizard'']]. This article has the same problems as ''The Wizard'' article did anyway. Besides the article's infobox and intro paragraph having little to do with the ''Super Mario'' franchise as a whole, what is indeed relevant to ''Super Mario'' as a whole can easily be summarized into one or two paragraphs in the [[List of references in film]] article. Besides, just like ''The Wizard'' or ''Wreck-it Ralph'', this film is more intent on referencing all manner of classic arcade games than the ''Super Mario'' franchise in general. In light of this, I call for a re-merge.
 '''Proposer:''' {{User|Archivist Toadette}}<br>
@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 #{{User|Koopa con Carne}} DK has plot relevance in the movie, similarly to how he's an opponent in Wii Punch-Out
 #{{User|Arend}} Both DK and the ''Donkey Kong'' arcade game are relevant to the plot of this film (although one could argue the latter doesn't necessarily matter since ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' is relevant to the plot of ''The Wizard'', and that got merged to the list; still though, DK the character plays a significant role regardless).
-#{{User|Glowsquid}} per my original proposal. DK is the climax of the movie, that's not just a reference.
-#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
-#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.
-#{{User|Mario}} Article serves its purpose well enough. Rather have this than parse through a giant list. The Wizard isn't substantial enough and its basis is probably too metacontextual, too divorced from the Mario series, but I can also see this one getting its own article just on more practical basis. This movie concerns video game characters with Donkey Kong playing a significant role.
-#{{User|Axis}} Per Hewer
 ===Comments===
@@ Line 39: / Line 34: @@
 @Opposition: Admittedly, part of why we (as in Tori and I, we do not speak for the other supporters and make zero claim to do so) personally dislike having this split is that, as far as we could tell anyways, this is one of ''three'' reference articles that're split into its own thing without already meeting our guidelines for coverage by virtue of being a video game with a more substantial Mario presence. The only other ones being [[Guinness World Records]] and [[Donkey Kong (monster truck)|a monster truck]], of all things. The way we see it, either we should be contracting these not-Video Game pop culture appearances to the list articles, or we should be splitting a few more of these because of how they'd fit our coverage policies otherwise. While we could personally go either way on that so long as our treatment is actually more consistent across the board, given we've currently been gradually consolidating those as-is, we're not a fan of keeping the Pixels article split in the meantime. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 17:20, May 1, 2024 (EDT)
-:Huh? [[MarioWiki:Coverage]] tells us that "Non-game guest appearances include ''[[Captain N: The Game Master]]'', ''[[Pixels]]'', and ''[[Wario to Saikyō Tag da Fii!]]''" What about non-game guest appearances means we should treat them so differently to game guest appearances? And what "few more" do you think could be split? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 03:19, May 2, 2024 (EDT)
-::We're gonna be real here, we somehow spaced Captain N existing at all, and we didn't know about the Stafy Manga at all until... right now. For "what about non-game guest appearances", that's... kind of why we brought up our original comment--as it stands, with a few pretty solidly defined exceptions (namely the three items mentioned on the coverage policy) it honestly feels a little arbitrary at the moment what gets its own article and what gets delegated to a list. The Wizard is similar to Pixels in how you can't really ''remove'' the Mario thing from it without ruining the plot, yet it got merged almost unanimously. Meanwhile, you could remove the Donkey Kong paint from that monster truck and it would probably still y'know, do tricks and stuff, and that thing has its own full article with a brief synopsis of each of its drivers.<br>As for potential splits, well, there is the aforementioned The Wizard and Wreck-It Ralph, but honestly, at least for now (we just woke up, we could undoubtedly give better answers if we weren't maybe only partially sentient right now, oops, please take every single word after this sentence with that in mind.), we feel like you could ''maybe'' (strong emphasis on that "maybe", mind) split the Blip Comics back up--while their status of being actually properly licensed is still undetermined, that is also a cameo where, like Pixels or The Wizard, you can't really remove that cameo without ruining the baseline story. Unless the guideline is also "it explicitly must be unambigously licensed by Nintendo or one of their subsidiaries" (which we couldn't find on there, but maybe it's just elsewhere and we're being dim, we've 100% accepted that's a possibility), we can't really think of many reasons to retain an article for Pixels that wouldn't ''also'' split up at least Wreck-it Ralph and The Wizard, and by that token, we don't think a split for the Blip Comics is like... Unfathomably unreasonable, right? Surely unpopular, but we hope it at least makes sense where we're coming from. <small>even if it took us like 500 years to get to that point WOW maybe we shouldn't reply to proposals at the fresh hour of 11 goshdarned AM when we just woke up but, well, sunk cost fallacy</small> {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 11:01, May 2, 2024 (EDT)
-:::The coverage policy says that "we cover any "[[Mario]]-related" media product given some sort of official authorization by [[Nintendo]] at some point in time". I guess the list of references pages are exceptions to the generally understood rule of official stuff only (e.g. we're only allowed to talk about memes on [[list of references on the Internet]] and nowhere else), hence Blip getting put there. But honestly, I don't think splits for The Wizard and Wreck-It Ralph are that unreasonable a prospect. Most of the [[list of references in film|references in film]] are one-liners, those two stick out quite a bit. And to be clear, the coverage policy is supposed to treat non-game guest appearances the same as game guest appearances, the list of the former just happens to be shorter, which I guess makes sense given Mario's primarily a video game franchise. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 12:15, May 2, 2024 (EDT)