Editing Talk:Pirate Guy

==(First topic)==
Where did the name 'Pirate Guy' come from? Is it from a guide? [[User:Vent|Vent]] ([[User talk:Vent|talk]]) 19:05, 27 October 2014 (EDT)

I thought it might come from the crabby ol' Yoshi's Story minisite, [http://web.archive.org/web/20000312083607/http://www.yoshisstory.com/5-3.html but nope]. And now I really wish there was an online scene for scanning strategery guides. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 19:27, 27 October 2014 (EDT)

== Scope of this article ==

This article has [[MarioWiki:Good writing#Everything but the kitchen sink|"everything but the kitchen sink"]] syndrome; only the ''[[Yoshi's Island DS]]'' enemy is confirmed to have this name, and it has a distinct appearance: white outfit with a bandana of a varying singular color. However, instead of limiting it to just that, this wiki considers "Pirate Guy" to be a catch-all term for any Shy Guy in pirate garb, including:
*The ''[[Yoshi's Story]]'' enemies, which appearance-wise are just normal Shy Guys wearing blue-and-orange striped bandanas (or a pirate hat in the case of what is presumably their captain) that attack from a pirate ship in the background. They also have a different Japanese name.
*The ''Mario Kart'' enemies from [[Shy Guy Beach]], which have no confirmed name in Japanese or English but are pretty similar to the ''Yoshi's Story'' ones, though their bandanas are plain blue and they fire cannonballs instead of Bob-ombs.
*The Shy Guys from [[Shy Guy Says]] and [[Flagging Rights]] in the ''Mario Party'' series, which are only ever called "Shy Guy." The one from the first ''Mario Party'' wears a full pirate outfit, while the ones from ''8'', ''Top 100'', and ''Superstars'' only have a hat.
Just like with [[Aqua Kuribō]] and [[Goomdiver]] or [[Putrid Piranha]] and [[Poison Piranha Plant]], conceptual similarity between these subjects does not make them all the same thing. There is no doubt in my mind that this should be split. The only question is exactly ''how'' to split it. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 17:14, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
:I've never played any of games listed here, so I may not know this situation too well, but if the Yoshi's Story and Yoshi's Island DS version behave similarly, then they could remain the same article. As for the Mario Party and Mario Kart ones, if the games treat them like regular Shy Guys, then they could be merged into the main Shy Guy article. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 20:10, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
::To my understanding, ''Yoshi’s Island DS''’s Pirate Guys act just like regular Shy Guys under a different appearance and name; the premise set by this game is that they’re not that distinct of an entity from their base species to begin with, and other appearances of pirate-clad Shy Guys don’t really support or counter that stance either way. I’d say either we keep this article as it is since the subject is named and differentiated in the ''Yoshi’s Island DS'' guides, or merge it entirely with [[Shy Guy]] on the basis that there’s nothing to disprove Pirate Guys in all games are not the Shy Guys of yore. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 21:30, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
:::I think a linked issue to this is the [[Shy Guy Ship]] and [[Shy Guy Galleon]] pages. I feel the YS and related appearances, along with Shy Guy Ship, should be merged to the Shy Guy Galleon page. The other non-YIDS stuff can be made a trivia point. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:05, July 1, 2021 (EDT)

== Clean up this article ==

{{TPP}}
See the above discussion. Pirate Guy is only the name of an enemy from ''Yoshi's Island DS'', but this article rambles on about every time Shy Guys have ever been seen in pirate clothes, including the ''Mario Party'' ones which are only ever called Shy Guys, not treating them as a distinct entity, making this wiki's classification of them as Pirate Guys speculative at best.

There are multiple options for cleaning this up, based on commenters' suggestions and my own:
*'''Option 1: Merge ''Yoshi's Story'' and ''Mario Kart'' content with [[Shy Guy Galleon]], merge ''Mario Party'' content with [[Shy Guy]]''': The Shy Guy Galleon article currently only covers the [[Shy Guy Beach]] ship, but the ''YS'' one very similar to it. Though the ship's design is different, the Shy Guys on board look similar and it shares the ''MK'' one's schtick of launching stuff at the player from the background (Bob-ombs in ''Story'', cannonballs in ''Kart'').
*'''Option 2: Split ''Story'' content to {{fake link|Kaizokusen Heihō}}, merge ''Kart'' content with Shy Guy Galleon, merge ''Party'' content with Shy Guy''': Similar to the above, but splits the ''YS'' to its own article under its unique Japanese name.
*'''Option 3: Merge with Shy Guy entirely''': From what I understand, Pirate Guys in ''Yoshi's Island DS'' actually behave identically to regular Shy Guys, with the only distinction being their outfit, and they are only named by guides. Given that and the lack of a real source for the other games' Shy Guy pirates being anything but Shy Guys in a specific role, so we could just merge the thing outright.
*'''Option 4: Leave as is''': Self-explanatory.

'''Proposer''': {{User|7feetunder}}<br>
'''Deadline''': July 18, 2021, 23:59 GMT

====Option 1: Merge all non-''YIDS'' content with other articles====
#{{User|7feetunder}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Yeah, you do bring up a good point.
#{{User|Somethingone}} This article feels more like a “here’s every time a shy guy looked like a pirate” article rather than a “Here’s info about the actual named pirate guy enemy” article and it definitely needs some level of merging.
#{{User|Keyblade Master}} Per my comment in the section above.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Per what I said before.

====Option 2: Split ''Story'' content to Kaizokusen Heihō, merge ''Kart'' and ''Party'' content with other articles====
#{{User|7feetunder}} Per proposal.

====Option 3: Merge with Shy Guy entirely====

====Option 4: Pirate Guy is a pirate Guy (leave as is)====

====Comments====
@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 == Clean up this article ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|8-3-0-0|Merge all non-''YIDS'' content with other articles}}
+{{TPP}}
 See the above discussion. Pirate Guy is only the name of an enemy from ''Yoshi's Island DS'', but this article rambles on about every time Shy Guys have ever been seen in pirate clothes, including the ''Mario Party'' ones which are only ever called Shy Guys, not treating them as a distinct entity, making this wiki's classification of them as Pirate Guys speculative at best.
@@ Line 35: / Line 35: @@
 #{{User|Keyblade Master}} Per my comment in the section above.
 #{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Per what I said before.
-#{{user|RHG1951}} Although the ship in ''Yoshi's Story'' isn't given a specific name in the player's guide, the functions between the it and the Shy Guy Galleon are similar enough.
-#{{User|Tails777}} I agree with this one the most. I know the Shy Guy in Shy Guy Says is never referred to as "Pirate Guy", which would make more sense of it being a Shy Guy who just thought pirates were in that year. That being said, if it's referred to as a Shy Guy, merging that stuff with the Shy Guy article makes sense.
-#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
 ====Option 2: Split ''Story'' content to Kaizokusen Heihō, merge ''Kart'' and ''Party'' content with other articles====
 #{{User|7feetunder}} Per proposal.
-#{{User|Hewer}} Since Pirate Guy from ''Yoshi's Island DS'' is being split for a different name and appearance, I feel it makes sense to treat the ''Yoshi's Story'' Pirate Guys the same way. I also feel it's strange to say that we should split up the Pirate Guy article because the similar pirate Shy Guys it covers differ slightly, but merge all of the Shy Guy pirate ships for being similar despite their differences.
-#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per Hewer, option 1 seems too inconsistent.
 ====Option 3: Merge with Shy Guy entirely====
@@ Line 49: / Line 44: @@
 ====Comments====
-The Nintendo Official Guidebook of ''Mario Kart: Super Circuit'' names the Shy Guy Galleon 「海賊船」on page 30, the same name is used by the Nintendo Official Guidebook of ''Mario Kart Wii'' on page 172. With that being said, the name is pretty generic, so I'm not sure it could be used as a proof for the merge, especially considering how the appearance of the two ships is different.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:30, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
-:Considering SS's other "beach" course had ''Story'' style Cheep Cheeps, I doubt it's a coincidence, just a design simplification for the smaller res that MKW then based off from. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:03, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
-:I'm not sure what you're saying. "''MKSC'' ship vs. "''MKWii'' ship" is not even being discussed. It's the ''Yoshi's Story'' ship that's up for debate for having a different design and stuff. The ''MKWii'' one is not different from the ''MKSC'' one at all aside from updated graphics, and it's part of a remake of the ''MKSC'' track to begin with, so the possibly of there not being a connection between the two is nonexistent. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 19:07, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
-::With two ships I was referring to the ''Yoshi Topsy-Turvy'' Shy Guy Ship (that has the very same Japanese name) and the Mario Kart one. We can then of course also put the ''Yoshi's Story'' one in the comparison as the name is similar (it doesn't use Kanji but that's understandable in a Nintendo 64 game) and the role is similar as well (but again even the ''Mario Kart: Super Circuit'' sprite is actually very detailed and clearly different from the ''Yoshi's Story'' ship).--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:55, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
-:::I personally believe the YTT thing is the same concept (considering the game's YS basis), just with a different gimmick for the gameplay. But we can cross that bridge later. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:58, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
-== Yoshi's Crafted World ==
-Now that the split has happened, where did the Yoshi's Crafted World information go to? {{User:WildWario/sig}} ([[User talk:WildWario|talk]]) 09:57, August 21, 2021 (EDT)
-:It appears to have gotten lost in the shuffle, but it can go in the ''YCW'' section of the Shy Guy article. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 18:04, August 21, 2021 (EDT)