Editing Talk:Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten

==Name==
According to [[MarioWiki:Japanese#Subjects_with_Japanese_names|policy]], the article title shouldn't be ''Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia'' (which, since there doesn't appear to be any other edition, would probably be better translated without "''of the''" in the name), but rather ''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten''. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:11, 6 October 2017 (EDT)
:Indeed, but let's start with the reasons of the name.<br/>
:First, in the English translation I added the ''of the'' because of two reasons:<br/>
:#Having a more fluent title
:#Most importantly, if you lok at the {{file link|PEGMCE Cover.png|book cover}}, you'll see that indeed the ''Perfect Ban'' part is put aside from the main title and is referred to the book as a whole, thus to the ''Daijiten''. The idea was probably stating that the book covers all the characters of the time, without using names too similar to those used by Shogakukan before, such as {{file link|SMCE page 256.png|''Super Mario Zen Hyakka''}}. Since in the {{file link|PEGMCE Last Page.png|last page}} it is stated that ''Perfect Ban'' is part of the full name of the book, I added the ''of the'' to clarify the actual meaning of ''Perfect Ban'' as reported in the cover of the book
:When it comes to the translated name being used instead of the romanized name, I was told from admins of an higher rank to use the translated name. I can understand why this would be suggested, as even if it is not covered by the policy, using the translated name, along with the actual name written in Japanese which is added in the introdcution or in the description of the uplosded images, helps readers of the wiki who don't know Japanese to immediately recognize the content and scope of the book. With that being said, if you think it is better to enforce the policy, I won't prevent nor stop you from doing so.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:19, 6 October 2017 (EDT)
::Since romanizations are supposed to be used as the title, it ''does'' stand out among most of the foreign names in the [[:Category:Articles with titles from other languages|category]]. That said, the translation should be easily visible in the introductory paragraph and as a redirect. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:27, 9 October 2017 (EDT)
:::I'd honestly prefer it stayed as it is, it's more understandable to our readers and is already a bit of a cluster to type and link to, it doesn't need to be any more convoluted. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:50, 10 October 2017 (EDT)
::::What makes this title deserve special treatment over [[:Category:Articles with titles from other languages|others]]? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:14, 10 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::Because this one's already a cluster enough in English, without having to remember which letters have dashes over them. I wouldn't be able to link images to it ever again. Besides, given that the name a description of what it is in this case, rather than just a name, it's easier to have the description. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:03, 10 October 2017 (EDT)
::::::It will be the top search result when searching for the word "Perfect" and there are trickier titles out there (this one also happens to lack those dreaded macrons). If it comes down to personal preference, that's not a good enough reason to make an exception. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:39, 11 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::::Except it won't be a search result until the entire title is typed out if it becomes a redirect. And remember, the title is basically a pile of descriptors, which would function better for the wiki if in English. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:31, 11 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::::::Effectively, a revision of the policy to take into account both Western readers' interest and correctness toward the source material might be the way to go. At the moment there is an ongoing proposal on naming so we'll have to wait, but I was thinking about three possible solutions:
:::::::::#Adding the possibility of using the translated name even as the main page's title, provided that in said main page the actual Japanese name is given;
:::::::::#Enforcing the current rule only for the main page's title, allowing elsewhere the use of the translated title and the use of the romanized name, depending on which is deemed the most useful;
:::::::::#Strictly enforcing the current rule.
:::::::::In all cases the current romanized titles won't be touched, thus not mandating additional work. If you have other ideas we can discuss them, since we have time to do so.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:15, 11 October 2017 (EDT)

== Terminology ==

This is obviously nitpicky, but this page says the Japanese "alphabet". This is technically erroneous, since an alphabet specifically means a writing system where graphemes/characters correspond to phonemes/sounds, when instead, Japanese kana are a syllabary and kanji are logographic. So is that part referring to kana specifically, or both kana and kanji?

Note that I'm only asking this question due to never having seen it.

[[Special:Contributions/23.93.73.220|23.93.73.220]] 16:42, March 29, 2023 (EDT)

== Rename to ''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten'' ==
{{TPP}}

This book has never been officially called ''Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia''.
The only official name of this encyclopedia is「パーフェクト版　マリオキャラクター大事典」(''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten''<ref group=a>The words「パーフェクト」(''pāfekuto'', "perfect") and「キャラクター」(''kyarakutā'', "character") are English words written in katakana, and thus must be written as the original English words per [[MarioWiki:Japanese#Subjects with Japanese names|title romanization rules]].</ref>).

On the Wiki, we make sure to always use official names if one can be found and to avoid creating fake names that could spread beyond the wiki.
Most notably, when a subject does not have an official English name, we '''do not use a translation of a non-English name''' as the article title; we use the [[:Category:Articles with titles from other languages|official non-English title]] instead and we provide an English translation in the article itself.
For example, ''[[Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen!]]'' is not called "''Super Mario Bros.: Princess Peach Rescue Operation!''", ''[[Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic]]'' is not called "''Dream Factory: Heart-Pounding Panic''", and ''[[Shitamachi Ninjō Gekijō]]'' is not called "''Lower-City Empathy Theater''".
We even repealed [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/66#Repeal the "derived names" having priority over official names in other languages|"derived names" having priority over foreign official names]] even though those "derived names" were (usually) a straightforward translation.

The current name of this article is not even a straightforward translation<ref group=a>We could also translate the title as "''Mario Character Great Encyclopedia, Perfect Edition''", "''Perfect Edition: Big Encyclopedia of Mario Characters''", etc.</ref>, and even if it were, it is not an official name and thus is [[MarioWiki:Naming#Naming an article|lower-priority than an official name]].
In conclusion, this article must be renamed to the only official name we have: ''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten''.

<references group=a/>

'''Proposer''': {{User|Jdtendo}}<br>
'''Deadline''': October 7, 2024, 23:59 GMT

===Support and rename to ''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten''===
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per proposal.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} This always stuck out like a sore thumb in [[:Category:Articles with titles from other languages|the category]]. (Also, I personally don't like this translation since it implies that there is a prior edition of the book.)
#{{User|Technetium}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per proposal; it's consistent with our policies, and we should probably y'know, enforce those. ;P
#{{User|Zootalo}} Per all.
#{{User|DesaMatt}} Per all. Consistency is fun.

===Oppose and keep name ''Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia''===

===Comments===
@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 == Rename to ''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten'' ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|17-0|Rename to ''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten''}}
 This book has never been officially called ''Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia''.
 The only official name of this encyclopedia is「パーフェクト版　マリオキャラクター大事典」(''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten''<ref group=a>The words「パーフェクト」(''pāfekuto'', "perfect") and「キャラクター」(''kyarakutā'', "character") are English words written in katakana, and thus must be written as the original English words per [[MarioWiki:Japanese#Subjects with Japanese names|title romanization rules]].</ref>).
@@ Line 53: / Line 53: @@
 #{{User|Zootalo}} Per all.
 #{{User|DesaMatt}} Per all. Consistency is fun.
-#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} Per all. It's crazy how long this page has gone against the wiki's polices. Wow. (Also, I love consistency, so of ''course'' I couldn't just sit this one out, could I?)
-#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per all.
-#{{User|Mariuigi Khed}} Per all.
-#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
-#{{User|Terrenebrick699}} i agree!
-#{{User|Starluxe}} Per all!
-#{{User|Mister Wu}} Agreed, time to rename!
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} I was always confused by that. Per all.
-#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - Per, I've revised my stance from 7 years (jeeze has it really been that long?!) ago.
-#{{User|Dine2017}} Per proposal, though "Ban" could be mistaken as an English word in this context. I prefer ''Perfect-ban'' because ''ban'' is always a suffix in Japanese.
 ===Oppose and keep name ''Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia''===
 ===Comments===