Editing Talk:Pata Mario

==Koopa Troopa Paratroopa Jamboree Go Kablooka==
{{talk}}
I really ''really'' doubt that the Jamboree ones are similar to this mostly because Pata Mario is him after beating a Paratroopa to get its wings in typical Kun weirdness while Jamboree has the Mario Bros wearing strap-on wings. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 01:07, December 12, 2024 (EST)

:I agree, I in fact originally put it as a trivia: then {{User|Koopa con Carne}} put it as a section and I... "rolled" with it. {{User:Mariuigi_Khed/sig}} 05:15, December 12, 2024 (EST)

::My read on the situation, as someone whose only contact with the manga have been the articles on the wiki, is that the Pata form does not quite parallel traditional power-up forms such as Fire Mario or Raccoon Mario. I took it that Mario attains the form by simply stealing a Paratroopa's wings and physically attaching them to his body, the wings themselves being more of a tool that grants him flight, unlike, say, a [[Super Leaf]], which is a consumable that inherently transforms Mario into a flying creature<s>, which is, of course, a raccoon</s>. I'll ask {{user|Mariuigi Khed}} to correct me if my assessment is wrong, but if what I say is the case, then the Jamboree instance mustn't be functionally different, no? That game also has users attaching Paratroopa wings to themselves in order to fly. I think "attaching the wings of a particular ''Mario'' enemy to oneself in order to fly" is a specific enough scenario that its instances can be covered on this page regardless of whether or not there was intent in referencing the manga. The aesthetic aspects of the form are kind of irrelevant, considering established power-up forms have {{file link|Fire Mario SML2.png|changed}} [[Statue Mario#Gallery|appearance]] over time. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:03, December 12, 2024 (EST), edited 14:10, December 12, 2024 (EST)

:::You're not at all wrong. Yours is a very validissimo point. {{User:Mariuigi_Khed/sig}} 15:52, December 12, 2024 (EST)

:::: I feel that we should put it back under Trivia because I highly doubt Nintendo would be inspired by a volume of a gag manga they've barely acknowledged. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:01, December 13, 2024 (EST)

:::::"Barely"? Half of that stuff made it to the game. Just look at chapter 15 of Volume 1. And let's not also talk of the SMM course {{User:Mariuigi_Khed/sig}} 09:34, December 13, 2024 (EST)

:::::My point wasn't that Nintendo acknowledged the manga in Jamboree, it's that there was already a page for an instance where Mario wears Paratroopa wings, and by that criterion it makes sense to place the Jamboree info here too. I think a stronger argument to be made for excluding the Jamboree section is that one instance covered here is deemed a power-up (however loosely the term is applied), and the other isn't. IMO it's a bit like treating the infant form of Mario that appears in the DIC cartoons as the Baby Mario character from spin-off games; the article for [[Baby Mario]] notes the cartoon precursor, but describes him as a distinct entity and does not cover him further in its own section. I think whether Pata Mario should follow that model or not hinges on how generic you consider the concept of Mario wearing flying turtle wings to be and whether it is truly a 1:1 to the baby scenario. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:25, December 13, 2024 (EST)

::::::This guy is spitting facts after facts. {{User:Mariuigi_Khed/sig}} 18:31, December 13, 2024 (EST)
:::::::You're being too nice over my nerding out, I appreciate it :)) While I'm the one who created the jamboree section, I wouldn't mind the article going either way. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:41, December 13, 2024 (EST)
::::::::Can we split the difference by using <nowiki>{{Part conjecture}}</nowiki>? I'm actually on team "no", on the basis that the distinction between "using an item" and "form" is vague and unknowable. The [[Cannon Box]] is just something Mario can put on his head, new abilities be darned. But [[Buzzy Shell|Buzzy Mario]] is clearly a distinct form despite it being Mario wearing an item with no physical changes. There's a reason somewhere, but not like we'll know unless we're in Nintendo HQ. Given that this forms are "because Nintendo says so", I think putting a "form" with a "may or may not be form" is an overreach. Which we do sometimes, hello [[Giant Bowser]], but that's what  <nowiki>{{Part conjecture}}</nowiki> is for. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 20:52, December 22, 2024 (EST)
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 :::::::You're being too nice over my nerding out, I appreciate it :)) While I'm the one who created the jamboree section, I wouldn't mind the article going either way. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:41, December 13, 2024 (EST)
 ::::::::Can we split the difference by using <nowiki>{{Part conjecture}}</nowiki>? I'm actually on team "no", on the basis that the distinction between "using an item" and "form" is vague and unknowable. The [[Cannon Box]] is just something Mario can put on his head, new abilities be darned. But [[Buzzy Shell|Buzzy Mario]] is clearly a distinct form despite it being Mario wearing an item with no physical changes. There's a reason somewhere, but not like we'll know unless we're in Nintendo HQ. Given that this forms are "because Nintendo says so", I think putting a "form" with a "may or may not be form" is an overreach. Which we do sometimes, hello [[Giant Bowser]], but that's what  <nowiki>{{Part conjecture}}</nowiki> is for. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 20:52, December 22, 2024 (EST)
-:::::::::"Part conjecture" cannot be used any more: a Play Nintendo activity, whose link I cited in the article, uses "Paratrooper Luigi" as a description for the ''Jamboree'' Luigi artwork. (As a refresher, alt text now constitutes a valid naming source in the [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|source priority policy]].) {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 19:16, January 5, 2025 (EST)
-While this probably doesn't mean anything, being such a generic name, I think it's still worth noting that these Mario Party wings are described in Japanese with the same name as [[P-Wing]]: パタパタの羽 (Paratroopa's wing). <small>merge Pata Mario to P-Wing when /j</small> [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 19:36, January 5, 2025 (EST)
-:Well I'll be. Didn't expect it to be a form. But since it's a form, I rescind my case. I do advise putting the name in the intro and going "a similar form, named Paratrooper Luigi in the context of Luigi, is in {{a|SMPJ}}... The wings this form uses have not been identified as real wings or replicas, only as being like a Koopa Paratroopa's." [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 08:27, January 12, 2025 (EST)
-:Could you show me where in the mode is it referred to as a パタパタの羽? {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 08:52, January 12, 2025 (EST)