Editing Talk:Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door bestiary

==(First topic)==
When is the tattle log ever called the bestiary?<br>[[User:Confused|<span style="color:Red;">I</span>]] [[User talk:Confused|<span style="color:Blue;">am</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Confused|<span style="color:Green;">Confused</span>]] 23:19, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

:um....never. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

::Then shouldn't we move this to [[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Tattle Log)]]?<br>[[User:Confused|<span style="color:Red;">I</span>]] [[User talk:Confused|<span style="color:Blue;">am</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Confused|<span style="color:Green;">Confused</span>]] 17:51, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

:::No, because it also lists the stats for the enemy.  [[User:Metsfan1001|Metsfan1001]] 20:26, 25 August 2011 (EDT)

== Images? ==
Why are we linking the images externally? Shouldn't we upload them all here? - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 12:12, 3 September 2007 (EDT)
:If noone has objections, I would like to use [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Sandbox&oldid=241857 this style] for the table. We would need the upload the images as they appear in the Tattle Log. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 09:41, 4 September 2007 (EDT)
::No objections? Then here we go... - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 10:54, 8 September 2007 (EDT)
=== Missing Images ===
The following images are missing. Note that the images should show the enemies as they appear in the Tattle Log.
*[[Big Boo#Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door|Atomic Boo]]
*[[Boo]]
*[[Dark Boo]]
*[[Dark Puff]]
*[[Doopliss]]
*[[Elite X-Naut]]
*[[Frost Piranha]]
*[[Fuzzy]]
*[[Goomba]]
*[[Green Fuzzy]]
*[[Green Magikoopa]]
*[[Grodus]]
*[[Grodus X]]
*[[Ice Puff]]
*[[Lord Crump]]
*[[Mini-X-Yux]]
*[[Mini-Yux]]
*[[Mini-Z-Yux]]
*[[Poison Pokey]]
*[[Poison Puff]]
*[[Putrid Piranha]]
*[[Ruff Puff]]
*[[Spiky Parabuzzy]]
*[[Vivian]]
*[[X-Naut]]
*[[X-Naut PhD]]
*[[X-Yux]]
*[[Yux]]
*[[Z-Yux]]

Basically, we're missing all Boos, all Ruff Puffs, all X-Nauts and a few other enemies. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 07:29, 9 September 2007 (EDT)
:Also, if humanly possible, an image of the [[Shadow Queen]] in her Peach form, which only appears when tattling her during the battle. Just thinking... - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 14:31, 29 September 2007 (EDT)
::Noone has an idea how to get the missing images? I tried a Google image search for "Paper Mario 2" "Tattle Log", but instead of what I look for, I get sick images from DeviantArt. <.< - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 16:26, 28 January 2008 (EST)

== You Forgot Something ==

You forgot that goombas live in RIVERSIDE STATION. They're seen in the room next to the room with the Ultra Boots. {{User:BoygeyDude/sig}}

==Construction?==
This is complete, isnt it? --{{User:Tucayo/sig}} 16:20, 15 October 2009 (EDT)
:If it has 124 entries, then it is. - {{User:Edofenrir/sig}} 16:26, 15 October 2009 (EDT)

== Order ==
Should the Tattle Log be in alphabetical order or numerical order? {{User:Dry Paratroopa/sig}}
:I organized the [[Paper Mario/Bestiary|Paper Mario bestiary]] alphabetically, and I don't see why it shouldn't be organized in that way here as well. People are more likely to know where a particular enemy would be located in the alphabet than to recall their in-game number. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 17:58, 25 December 2009 (EST)
::Then what am I going to do with the numerical version I made that I worked on for days? Could we have two pages; one for each?{{User:Dry Paratroopa/sig}}
:::Maybe there's some coding where you can choose whether you want to read it in alphabetical or numerical order. Ask one of the sysops and maybe it's possible. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:43, 25 December 2009 (EST)
::::Maybe... but if there is, I'd have to do the same with the original one for Paper Mario. But that's okay.{{User:Dry Paratroopa/sig}}
:::::There isn't a numerical order for the enemies in the original ''Paper Mario'', so that wouldn't be necessary. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 20:09, 26 December 2009 (EST)

What if we put both in and just have hide/show coding for each? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 04:42, 27 December 2009 (EST)
:I don't think it'd be worth it to go through all the extra trouble just to have two different ways to sort the log. I think sorting it alphabetically is best, so long as each enemy's row has its respective tattle log number. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 04:53, 27 December 2009 (EST)

==Why==
Why do we need the tattle log screenshots. Couldn't we just use the in-game sprites instead because the tattle log screenshot have bad quality.--[[File:YoshiMP8Artwork.png|35px]][[User:YoshiGo99|YoshiGo99]][[File:YoshiNSMBW.png|35px]] 23:08, 4 March 2011 (EST)

You have a point. :) Tattle-log screenshots do have bad quality compared to teh sprites. {{User:BoygeyDude/sig}}
:I believe that we only have the tattle log images so that's why we're using them. [[File:OrangeYoshiTTYD.png|30px]] [[User:Yoshiwaker|<span style=color:#F96300>Yoshi</span>]][[User talk:Yoshiwaker|<span style=color:#F00>waker</span>]] [[File:Rayquaza.png|40px]] 12:33, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

Now we're looking for sprites. Sprites that aren't here are:

*<s>Dark Puff</s>
*<s>Ice Puff</s>
*<s>The Armored Harriers</s>
*Magnus Von Grapple 2.0
*And the Shadow Queen

{{User:BoygeyDude/sig}}

== Better poses ==

Some of these images need better poses. For example, the Macho Grubba one is terrible. I will give a list of what I think need better poses:

*<s>Big Bandit (hands shouldn't be outwards, shouldn't be smiling like that)</s>
*<s>Dark Koopa (mouth shouldn't be open, body looks a bit off)</s>
*<s>Dark Paratroopa (mouth shouldn't be open, facing the wrong way)</s>
*<s>Elite X-Naut (body is leaning back; regular X-Naut's pose isn't like that)</s>
*<s>Hammer Bro. (hammer shouldn't be upwards, shouldn't be angry)</s>
*<s>Koopa Troopa (strange-looking, the KP Koopa nearby doesn't look like that)</s>
*<s>KP Paratroopa (mouth shouldn't be open, facing the wrong way)</s>
*<s>Lakitu (shouldn't be ducking inside the cloud)</s>
*<s>Macho Grubba (looks nothing like his idle in battle)</s>
*<s>Magikoopa (hand holding wand shouldn't be facing up)</s>
*<s>Paratroopa (mouth shouldn't be open)</s>
*<s>Red Bones (facing the wrong way)</s>
*Shady Koopa (facing the wrong way)
*Shady Paratroopa (mouth shouldn't be open)

Yes, you may think I am a bit picky, but I think we should have the best images possible for these enemies. I have already started fixing poses, though. I fixed Dark Boo and Piranha Plant (not Pale Piranha, the one in the Pit of 100 Trials)

Once again, sorry if I am being picky. But we need good images. --PyroGuy6 [[File:Sad Paragoomba.png|25px]] I [[User:PyroGuy6|gotta]] [[User talk:PyroGuy6|vacuum]] [[Pyro Guy|tonight]]. [[File:ShyguyYakuman.gif|25px]] 08:27, 2 June 2011 (EDT)

We are trying to get the best quality images. Some images don't work well like the Koopas shells, most of them are straight up and not leaning like they should. If will tilt the arms of Hammer Bro. And Magikoopa the quality turns bad..{{User:YoshiGo99/sig}}

== I don't get it. :( ==

Y R we going back to the tattle log screenshots? Most users agreed that we use sprites because they have good quality. {{User:BoygeyMario/sig}}

== Fuzzy Horde ==

Would [[Fuzzy Horde]] fit here? It has its own HP, moves, tattle, etc., but it does not have an entry in the in-game tattle log and thus isn't listed here. -- {{User:A gossip-loving Toad/sig}}  03:45, 18 August 2016 (EDT)
:Solved. {{user|Megadardery}} added it. -- {{User:A gossip-loving Toad/sig}}  10:16, 18 August 2016 (EDT)

==  Bestiary ==

Why did you change the bestiary? I mean, I like the new stats and all, but the last one was designed so you can sort the enemies so you can see them in a different order.-- 16:51, 29 August 2016 (EST){{unsigned|72.84.230.129}}

== Missing Immunities and Weaknesses ==

Does anyone know why these aren't listed here for each enemy? They're in the original Paper Mario's bestiary, and I find them very helpful and informative. --[[User:Kimimaru|Kimimaru]] ([[User talk:Kimimaru|talk]]) 03:27, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

== Whipped her but good ==

This is grammatically correct, but it is uncommon. —-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 16:51, October 18, 2021 (EDT)

== Attack names? ==

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but where do the names of the enemy attacks come from? They don't seem conjectural, with stuff like "Missilespikebonk", but they're not named in-game either. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 08:23, February 6, 2024 (EST)

== Splitting the Switch version ==

This needs done for a number of reasons, not the least of which includes the myriad of actual differences between the mechanics and tattles of the two versions, as well as the sprites (and tattle log images, for that matter). It's also consistent with how we handle the other RPG remakes. I'm only really putting this on the talk page as a formality. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:27, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:We could split them up if it's easier. The only thing that gives me pause is that a separate article would be almost entirely the same information. AFAIK the only differences are a few new tattle entries (and consequently, some changed tattle log numbers), and some slightly changed descriptions.
:Incidentally, I've also been playing around with a new template design in my [[User:Dorsal Axe/Sandbox|sandbox]]. The current one isn't great to read on both wider screens or mobile. There are also a bunch of additional stats for each enemy that are currently missing, so I've been experimenting with how best to add this new info but also present everything in a way that doesn't feel overwhelming. If you have any feedback, please let me know :) --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] ([[User talk:Dorsal Axe|talk]]) 05:49, June 2, 2024 (EDT)

== Change to Sortable Format ==

Is there any format this page could be changed to that can by sorted by different fields? Because searching by log number is a lot harder than necessary, as well as an absolute ''nightmare'' when the log number you are searching for is also a common stat number as well, leading to hundreds of results when you attempt an in-page search. --[[User:Dus T.|Dus T.]] ([[User talk:Dus T.|talk]]) 19:07, June 8, 2024 (EDT)

== Split the Nintendo Switch remake into its own bestiary ==
{{TPP}}
Per Doc von Schmeltwick's argument above, as well as the fact that a proposal must accompany the <nowiki>{{split}}</nowiki> template per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/61#Discourage_drive-by_templating_part_2|this proposal]].

A separate article would not only more clearly distinguish the minor Tattle Log description changes and the entries unique to the remake (such as [[Goomboard]]), but it would also allow the [[Gallery:Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)#Tattle Log images|new Tattle Log images]] to be used in a productive way. Otherwise, they run the risk of being amassed uncritically since sprites for each enemy are present on their respective articles, leaving the Tattle Log images in a similar state as the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/66#Trim_Mario_Kart_course_galleries_of_excess_Tour_stuff|''Mario Kart Tour'' course icons]].

'''Proposer''': {{User|ThePowerPlayer}}<br>
'''Deadline''': July 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} A lot of it may be redundant with enemy statistics being the same, but I do think this is the best way to handle it than cramming both tattles between versions in the same statbox. It also makes it more clearer that Prince Mush and Whacka are enemies exclusive to the remake.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal and above section on the matter, this makes sense.
#{{User|Zootalo}} Per all.
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per all.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} paper all

====Oppose====

====Comments====
A ''proposal'' doesn't need to accompany the talk template, just a discussion. And the reason parameter eases that, anyway. I honestly don't think this should even ''need'' a proposal, it seems like it'd just be one of those matter-of-course things. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:14, June 20, 2024 (EDT)

I did upload those Tattle Log images with the intent of it being a separate page. I think the main thing is just the Tattle and log differences haven't been added yet, but you can find the ones from the remake [[User:Scrooge200/Sandbox|here]]. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 23:17, June 20, 2024 (EDT)
@@ Line 144: / Line 144: @@
 == Split the Nintendo Switch remake into its own bestiary ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|10-0|split}}
 Per Doc von Schmeltwick's argument above, as well as the fact that a proposal must accompany the <nowiki>{{split}}</nowiki> template per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/61#Discourage_drive-by_templating_part_2|this proposal]].
@@ Line 161: / Line 160: @@
 #{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per all.
 #{{User|EvieMaybe}} paper all
-#{{User|Scrooge200}} Don't think this needs a proposal, but per all.
-#{{User|ReeceeYT}} Per all.
-#{{User|Technetium}} Per all.
 ====Oppose====
@@ Line 171: / Line 167: @@
 I did upload those Tattle Log images with the intent of it being a separate page. I think the main thing is just the Tattle and log differences haven't been added yet, but you can find the ones from the remake [[User:Scrooge200/Sandbox|here]]. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 23:17, June 20, 2024 (EDT)
-== Regarding TCRF-Sourced Japanese-only Unused Tattles ==
-{{Talk}}
-I recently noticed that Doopliss (2) had a tattle listed, even though you don't have Goombella to see it. I checked [https://dialoguetree.net/ttyd/ dialogtree] to see if it was real, and it was not there, so I removed it. It was then re-added with a source from [https://tcrf.net/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door/Unused_Text/Unused_Tattles TCRF], alongside other tattles from that page. This seemed really odd to me that this would be on TCRF but not dialogtree. I then noticed that most of the TCRF English tattles are in ''italics'' under the Japanese text, which is the article silently saying that these only exist in Japanese and that this English is a fan translation. To avoid an edit war, how should these "only in Japanese with no official English" tattles be handled? It doesn't seem right to me to list fan translations alongside the official text, or at least without a disclaimer that this is Japanese only? X-Fists and Doopliss (2) in Chapter 4 do actually have official English tattles, but they aren't meant to be seen. X-Fist: "Unused Message GLOBAL 716". Doopliss (2): "That's Doopliss. {{color|red|REPORT THIS AS A BUG Global #796.}}"
-On a related note, the [https://dialoguetree.net/ttyd/?unused Fuzzy Horde has an unused official English tattle log entry in GameCube] that isn't documented here or TCRF, and is completely different in Switch! Fuzzy Horde: "Max HP: 20  Attack: 1 Defense: 0 A completely crazy horde of Fuzzies that attack en masse. Basically, a swarm of scary blackness." [[User:Spencer PK|Spencer PK]] ([[User talk:Spencer PK|talk]]) 12:17, June 24, 2024 (EDT)
-:To me it makes sense to mention they're fan translations of Japanese only. I agree. WAIT it says Crazy! :o [[User:LetsPlayNintendoITA|<span style="color:green">LetsPlay</span><span style="color:silver">Nintendo</span><span style="color:red">ITA</span>]] 12:25, June 24, 2024 (EDT)
-== Card Reference Image ==
-I found out that the base image is 216x160px. It is 1:1 with a screenshot. All images that have a proper card in-game will need to be recaptured. I don't have all the tattles. 113/124. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 22:10, October 19, 2024 (EDT)
-:Nope, all fixed. [[User:Wildgoosespeeder/sandbox#Saves, Cheating, and Passwords|TTYD Practice Codes]]. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 12:09, October 27, 2024 (EDT)
-[[File:PMTTYD Tattle Card.png|216x160px]][[File:PMTTYD Tattle Log - Goomba.png|216x160px]]